Bpd confusion question.

[Confused#9999]

Hi, struggling to make sense of things. I was with a girl for about 5 months. I knew her as a friend before,and I am struggling with what happened. Most signs point to BPD traits, but am not sure of myself.
There was no love bombing, attachment on her side. She was cold and distant 80% of the time at least, and only got "close" when we saw each other in person, which was once a week. She told me she had a 5 year long emotionally abusive relationship, so she has trouble trusting and getting close, she also has a fear of being taken advantage of.
It was definitely a push-pull relationship from the start which created a lot of doubt and anxiety for me since I never knew where I stood with her, unless we were together. When together she was all good. As soon as we get close and we separate, she became cold and distant. As she used to say "she's just focusing her attention on other things and didn't like to focus her attention on me when not together", which to an extent made sense.
Most times she needed time when we'd see each other to "warm up to me"  and be normal. It's like she forgot who I am, and how we are when together, which was weird to me. That's when my gut started to tell me something was up. She also had the cold, lifeless eyes when we'd see each other. Until she gets "comfortable", as she used to say.
She is definitely on the quiet and "shy" side, and definitely in the victim stage all the time. She did say she contributed to the past relationship failing but never said what she did, and it felt almost like it was just something she'd say, for whatever reason. I don't know, can't put my finger on it. She was "shy" but had no problem walking naked around the house in front of me less than two months after being together. Some of the things she said about making everyone else before me wait at least 5-6 months  before sex contradicted with the length of an those relationships. They never lasted more than 3-6 months.
We stated talking in January, she contacted me mine if right after she broke up with her boyfriend at the time, or while thinking about breaking up. I don't really know. We took it slow because she was getting over the break up, according to her. So beginning of April she came to my town, live an hour away, we hung out alone , that's what she recommended we do. Then later that night with some mutual friends. We were getting pretty close and hugging, holding each other, etc etc.
Well the next day she was weird and different, after she went home. Few days later, pushing me away big time, then few days later acting like nothing ever happened, back to normal. One day we had lunch together, she was "fine", the next week nothing but pushing me away again. Went to see a friend of hers (old boyfriend) 5hrs away, Friday-Saturday. Two days later I ask to see her, since she initiated contact, and she tells me she needs a "break from our friendship", even though she showed other interest. That was mid April, fast forward to end of June, she texts me after 2 months.
I forgive her for the thing in April and we start talking again. Soon after she asks to be dating exclusively. A month into it I find out she dated someone in a April and May, but that is was nothing serious and there was no sex. I was obviously upset, I forgave again. She was still talking, on occasion, with that guy, but they were only friends,and he meant nothing so I shouldn't be insecure and try to control who she talks to, since that's what that abusive boyfriend did to her. Of course I believed her, she was very convincing. After two months she broke up with me because I was insensitive to her wanting to see her friends on her birthday getaway that I planned for her and I, she said she always wanted that. She threw a fit of a sort why I didn't really want to see her friends that night, and that it doesn't matter if was our night away. She saw her friends the weekend before mind you for her birthday, where she literally said "since we'll hang out next weekend together, I don't want you this weekend, it's my friend's get together this weekend". The other reason for breaking up was my response to her not telling her "good friend" (ex boyfriend that she never had sex with), that she had a boyfriend. It struck me as odd that 3 months of being together didn't qualify for her telling him she with someone. Well she didn't care for my reaction and it made her not emotionally safe. Which was a WTF moment since I just expressed how she made me feel. That was all after our romantic birthday getaway where we became quite close. It makes sense now why she started the drama and pushed me away.
A few days after the break up, November 4, she contacts me, wanting to know how I'm doing. We started talking and got back together. She was so nice, sweet and attentive that first week, we even Skyped that whole week, where before we barely spoke on the phone, it was mostly texting. She was awesome that week.
A week later back to normal, pushing me away. It was push-pull after that mostly and broken plans about us going away for a short "vacation" etc. So a week and a half ago we spend 4 days together and it was again, awesome. They next day boom. Cold and distant all over again. So I couldn't take it anymore and I asked her what is going on. She denied it, said I'm trying to create drama and that I'm assuming stuff. It was crystal clear though.
Next day she tells me she doesn't like how I've been talking to her and that she feels abused and like she was in her abusive relationship,and she doesn't feel emotionally safe. I remind her too much of that boyfriend who abused her, but she never gave me ONE fact or thing I did that reminded her of him. So I was like what the heck. How's that possible? She had no answer. She also had no answer to why she was soo comfortable with me the last 4 days if I remind her of him, had no answer for that either.
Needles to say I'm stuck here feeling guilty, constantly thinking about what happened, feeling FOGgy etc.
All sings point to waif BPD, but I just don know. I know my post is long, but this is such a mind... ck it's insane. I don't know what to think.
Any thoughts are very welcome.

[Mutt]

Hi Confused#9999,



Don't worry about the length of your post. I'm sorry to hear that. I can relate with how confusing everything can be when you've been in a r/s with a pwBPD. We can't diagnose, only a professional can do that, what we can look at and have boundaries with BPD traits, there's certainly enough traits there, you have erratic r/s's, emotional blackmail ( FOG) and intimacy issues, you describe fear of engulfment often, the fear of losing your identity in the r/s and push behavior. I also notice that a r/s starts before another one ends, she's creating exits for herself if things don't work out in a r/s.

It helps to read as much as you can about the disorder, we have everything here, it also helps to read other discussions, you'll probably see a lot of similarities with your situation and make sense of your experience. It helps to talk to others that can relate with how bizarre the experience can be with a r s with someone suffering from a PD. You'll find the lessons to the right side of the board.

How are you doing? Are you eating enough, getting enough sleep?

[Confused#9999]

Hi Confused#9999,



Don't worry about the length of your post. I'm sorry to hear that. I can relate with how confusing everything can be when you've been in a r/s with a pwBPD. We can't diagnose, only a professional can do that, what we can look at and have boundaries with BPD traits, there's certainly enough traits there, you have erratic r/s's, emotional blackmail ( FOG) and intimacy issues, you describe fear of engulfment often, the fear of losing your identity in the r/s and push behavior. I also notice that a r/s starts before another one ends, she's creating exits for herself if things don't work out in a r/s.

It helps to read as much as you can about the disorder, we have everything here, it also helps to read other discussions, you'll probably see a lot of similarities with your situation and make sense of your experience. It helps to talk to others that can relate with how bizarre the experience can be with a r s with someone suffering from a PD. You'll find the lessons to the right side of the board.

How are you doing? Are you eating enough, getting enough sleep?

I don't think she qualifies for BPD, but definitely traits and tendencies. She always created an exit, there was a lot of talk by her  about "if we don't work out". Luckily I've only been in a relationship for little over 5 months. The constant push-pull was the worst, such a mind game. I'm still in disbelief that someone who portrayed herself to be such a victim, sweet, shy, quiet, passive could be so controlling and back stabbing. I can kind of understand the moving on quickly, still hurts.
Sleeping is bad, wake up a lot, can't go back to sleep. Constant thoughts of her and the awesome 4 last days we spent together. That's what hurts. They meant a lot to me, and to her it was nothing. Can't wrap my mind around that.
Eating is fine, thank you for asking though. This is rough.
My logical mind can't comprehend what happened.

[bus boy]

Welcome to this site, it has helped me a great deal in detaching and figuring out this illness. I am confused about some things as well, I did not get any love bombing and oddly I struggle with this bc it gives me doubt as to weather xw is NPD/BPD or not although an assessment very strongly suggested xw has a personality disorder. I did go through the horrid experience of devalue, discard. Push pull and recycle until xw had my replacement firmly in her grip and I was discarded in a most cold heartless way.

[Confused#9999]

Welcome to this site, it has helped me a great deal in detaching and figuring out this illness. I am confused about some things as well, I did not get any love bombing and oddly I struggle with this bc it gives me doubt as to weather xw is NPD/BPD or not although an assessment very strongly suggested xw has a personality disorder. I did go through the horrid experience of devalue, discard. Push pull and recycle until xw had my replacement firmly in her grip and I was discarded in a most cold heartless way.

The site has helped me too, but it's exhausting thinking of her and what happened, while not really thinking of myself and trying to get over her. The push-pull crap started from day one, but she told me it's because she's afraid to get close due to past relationships where she was hurt etc etc. No problem being sexual though, with the most passion less kissing I've ever experienced. No emotion behind them at all. Messes with the mind a lot.
My discard wasn't that bad. I was just told that I remind her of one of her abusive ex's, with no actual facts to back it up. Couldn't give me ONE thing that I did like him,not one. So it's like what the heck. I'm not sure about a replacement, but it happened before so I would not be surprised. She did tell me though that "there is no one else she's talking to". Like it matters, and I didn't ask about that anyway. It's like she's leaving the door open to come back, so she had to reassure me that she's not going to be with someone else.
No love bombing, just good "normal" days, followed by coldness and distance. Not thinking of the good days is so hard.

[enlighten me]

Sometimes its hard to put your experience into the neat little boxes for a diagnoses. Our gut feelings can be very good. The thing with both my uBPD exs is that I found out a lot more about them after we had split than when I was with them. When I was with them I probably wouldn't have thought BPD but after I am almost certain they are.

[Confused#9999]

Question, we lived an hour away, so we saw each mostly on the weekend, Friday etc. Well she washed her bed sheets very often, like every 2 weeks. My gut feeling went into her sleeping around, but I couldn't even fathom her doing that. I asked her about it, she said she wanted me to sleep in clean sheets.
Now reading on here about the cheating tendencies is making me feel like all paranoid. I know all are not alike, but can't shake the feeling that it was off that the sheets were washed so often.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Confused-

I'm sorry you're going through that, it's been a week and a half and the ruminating at that point is normal, as our brains get to work making sense of the world again, which you will.  There are several things in your posts that indicate traits of the disorder, and there are reasons she exhibited those traits, and in the end the diagnosis doesn't really matter, beyond the fact that our understanding of the disorder can eliminate a lot of confusion, what matters are the behaviors and how they affected us, what we made them mean, and what we're doing about it now.  So I'm curious, you mention she was push/pull right from the beginning, which created a lot of doubt and anxiety for you; do you know why you forged ahead anyway, and what you made her behavior mean?  There's a lot of value in digging there as we detach and heal.

[Confused#9999]

Hi Confused-

I'm sorry you're going through that, it's been a week and a half and the ruminating at that point is normal, as our brains get to work making sense of the world again, which you will.  There are several things in your posts that indicate traits of the disorder, and there are reasons she exhibited those traits, and in the end the diagnosis doesn't really matter, beyond the fact that our understanding of the disorder can eliminate a lot of confusion, what matters are the behaviors and how they affected us, what we made them mean, and what we're doing about it now.  So I'm curious, you mention she was push/pull right from the beginning, which created a lot of doubt and anxiety for you; do you know why you forged ahead anyway, and what you made her behavior mean?  There's a lot of value in digging there as we detach and heal.

Well I took it as her needing to trust me and see I'm not going to abuse her, take advantage of her, use things against her, control her etc etc. All of the things she said happened in the past. She always brought those things up, which is something I never did, so it was always confusing why she's bringing up things that don't exist with us. So I just stayed and tried more and more to show her that I really am a nice guy. Nothing was ever working and the more I did, the more she seemed to get "confused". Always worried that I'd control her.
I asked her a question, the day before she broke it off, why she is being cold and distant. She tells me she felt abused and that I'm trying to control her feelings and emotions. Makes zero sense.

[fromheeltoheal]

She tells me she felt abused and that I'm trying to control her feelings and emotions. Makes zero sense.

Borderlines deal with the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, which drives the push/pull behavior, and engulfment is the state where she would feel so close to you that she would disappear entirely into you, lose herself. She can feel that way because borderlines don't have a fully formed self of their own, and that doesn't feel good, so labeling you abusive and controlling makes you the perpetrator and her the victim, which feels much better, and that doesn't need to have anything to do with the reality of the situation because borderlines feel emotions intensely, so they take priority; she wanted to feel better.

So I just stayed and tried more and more to show her that I really am a nice guy.

I did that too, the underlying belief being that I had to do something to get love, instead of just being inherently lovable.  The emotional chaos of the relationship triggered that in me, the "I'm not good enough" belief that was present long before I met her.  One of the gifts of these relationships can be the undeniable uncovering of issues like that, as we detach and heal yes, and also as we learn and grow, on the way to far brighter futures.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?

[Confused#9999]

Borderlines deal with the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, which drives the push/pull behavior, and engulfment is the state where she would feel so close to you that she would disappear entirely into you, lose herself. She can feel that way because borderlines don't have a fully formed self of their own, and that doesn't feel good, so labeling you abusive and controlling makes you the perpetrator and her the victim, which feels much better, and that doesn't need to have anything to do with the reality of the situation because borderlines feel emotions intensely, so they take priority; she wanted to feel better.

I did that too, the underlying belief being that I had to do something to get love, instead of just being inherently lovable.  The emotional chaos of the relationship triggered that in me, the "I'm not good enough" belief that was present long before I met her.  One of the gifts of these relationships can be the undeniable uncovering of issues like that, as we detach and heal yes, and also as we learn and grow, on the way to far brighter futures.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?

Well that relationship is definitely a learning experience, painful one, but much needed. I've been watching videos on YouTube, binging actually, that helps with why I was stuck there. Alan Robarge is excellent and has been helping quite a bit.
One of things that made me look at myself was the feeling of "love" I had for her, and how and why could I fall in love with someone who's pushing me away 70% of the time.

[fromheeltoheal]

Well that relationship is definitely a learning experience, painful one, but much needed. I've been watching videos on YouTube, binging actually, that helps with why I was stuck there. Alan Robarge is excellent and has been helping quite a bit.
One of things that made me look at myself was the feeling of "love" I had for her, and how and why could I fall in love with someone who's pushing me away 70% of the time.

Nice!  It's important to not "blame" ourselves too, as opposed to fully owning our part, and only our part.  A relationship takes two people and the dynamic formed is unique, and none of us were perfect in our relationships, especially under stress, so owning our part fully, and only our part can be very beneficial.

It's great you put love in quotes, many of us describe the feelings more of like an addiction than love, love being a slow, warm, comfortable thing, an addiction being stressful and full of intensity and need, and separating those too, and identifying where that addictive intensity comes from and why it was triggered by her, can be the core of our ongoing, and accelerated, growth.

Don't know if you've seen it, but many members have gotten good value out of this article at this stage in detachment https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

Take care of you!

[Confused#9999]

I did read that, more than once. I'm just getting tired of learning and finding out about her BPD issues. The more I find out, the more I start to feel bad about it and for her. Then, the unhealthy "rescuer" syndrome crap rises up and all I want to do is help and save her, so messed up. As she so eloquently told me "I don't need help".

[Mutt]

Hi Confused#9999,

The site has helped me too, but it's exhausting thinking of her and what happened, while not really thinking of myself and trying to get over her. The push-pull crap started from day one, but she told me it's because she's afraid to get close due to past relationships where she was hurt etc etc.

Have you talked to an MD about difficulties sleeping? What do you do for self care? It's important to take care of ourselves, and to do self care often so that we don't feel run down and exausted.

[Confused#9999]

Hi Confused#9999,

Have you talked to an MD about difficulties sleeping? What do you do for self care? It's important to take care of ourselves, and to do self care often so that we don't feel run down and exausted.

Hey Mutt,

Well I was very actively engaged in crosssfit before she contacted me the second time around in June. Did spartan races and tough mudder, soon after my motivation to do that declined a lot and I stopped going. Finding that motivation again is proving to be difficult. I have signed up, today actually, so I will start in the gym slow and go from there. I had such a nice support group there so I was cool to receive a nice welcome back. Have not talked to my doc, don't like pills, so I'm just going to tough it out. It'll get better. The sadness, emptiness and confusion comes in waves, so at least it's not constant.
Reminiscing about the good times and how she's just able to shut that off is so painful. Hard to wrap my mind around it. It's like she wasn't there the day before she broke up with me. Such a mind... ck.

[Mutt]

Hi Confused#9999,

I lift, I kept going and wanted to make it past the first thirty days because I had read that's when many people quit their gym membership. There were days that I didn't want to go but I wanted to make it stick so I went regardless. I don't have to tell you about the benefits of exercise.

That being said, I wouldn't advise toughing it out, would you tough out diabetes or a heart condition? Maybe you don't have depression, but the MD could prescribe you something to help you sleep, that's a part of taking of yourself?

[Confused#9999]

Hi Confused#9999,

I lift, I kept going and wanted to make it past the first thirty days because I had read that's when many people quit their gym membership. There were days that I didn't want to go but I wanted to make it stick so I went regardless. I don't have to tell you about the benefits of exercise.

That being said, I wouldn't advise toughing it out, would you tough out diabetes or a heart condition? Maybe you don't have depression, but the MD could prescribe you something to help you sleep, that's a part of taking of yourself?

Hey Mutt,

If it doesn't improve I might, but I'm seeing a counselor too, so that is helping. It's going to be 2 weeks tomorrow since she broke it off, so its still fresh kind of.
Questions though. She said she didn't love me, but she sure acted like it, no doubt in my mind. I've had relationships before so I know how someone acts when they love you. Why would she deny that, and tell me I deserve someone who will love me? And, what are the chances on her reaching out any time soon? As much as I want her on occasion, I pray that she doesn't. I don't need to be hooked on that drug again.

[enlighten me]

Hi Confused

I'm with you on the toughing it out rather than the pill route. Its not for everyone though. The secret is to identify the problem, understand it and then take control of it. I did this with my exgf. Yes at first I was in a lot of pain and confusion but slowly I took control. For me finding my answer to BPD helped. For some its religious, others psychological but for me it was a physical disorder. Once I'd found the solution that fitted with my mind-set everything else began to make sense. From then on my recovery leapt ahead.

Distraction is another useful tool. The less you think of them the more you can recover. Long runs for me are not a distraction as its when I used to think. Video games, films etc where however.

Change of mind-set can help to elevate mood. Stupid viral videos that make you laugh, a good comedy etc will slowly lift your spirits and change your mood. Don't over do them though as binge watching them will have less of an effect as you will get bored with them and then comedy will become boring to you.

[fromheeltoheal]

I did read that, more than once. I'm just getting tired of learning and finding out about her BPD issues. The more I find out, the more I start to feel bad about it and for her. Then, the unhealthy "rescuer" syndrome crap rises up and all I want to do is help and save her, so messed up. As she so eloquently told me "I don't need help".

And as you detach, you can try and separate those two.  It's possible to feel compassion towards your ex, and deservedly so, living with the disorder is a living hell, and also look at your desire to rescue, help and save, just not her; see if you can do that as you move forward, and find reasons why trying to rescue her would be a bad idea, if that's true for you.

And the rescuer thing is a continuum.  Humans are social animals, born to connect, and wanting to help each other out is in our DNA.  We can cross the line though, when we intentionally look for the wounded ones, so our efforts will be more appreciated, why is that?  Does it tie back into the forging ahead, trying to convince her you're a nice guy, trying to be a human doing to get love instead of an inherently lovable human being?  Something to think about yes?

[Confused#9999]

I'm very analytical and tend to overthink things as it is. Having this on my mind has been a whole different kind of beast. Did she cheat? What was real? How could she just cut it off after having an awesome weekend? Etc etc, just non-stop.
I try distraction, but it doesn't last very long.
Alan Robarge on YouTube explains why we get stuck in this kind of a relationship. Feeling like a rescuer for her just goes back to my, at times, troubled and not so caring childhood.
Having this forum though has been helping with writing some of that feelings out.

[fromheeltoheal]

What was real?

Feelings are facts for borderlines, because they feel emotions intensely and don't have the ability to self-soothe, and there is no homing device of a fully formed self.  So it was all real for her, minute to minute, and changeable minute to minute, especially towards the end when both partners are triggered.  And that will drive you crazy trying to make sense of it, although the rumination is normal and will pass and you re-make sense of the world.

Feeling like a rescuer for her just goes back to my, at times, troubled and not so caring childhood.
Having this forum though has been helping with writing some of that feelings out.

There you go, that's where the meat is, and also something you can make sense of, as you shift the focus from her to you.  I don't know that guy whose videos you're watching, but if it's helping that's good, and there's a wealth of clinically-based information on this site too, to make sure you get everything you need.

[enlighten me]

I'm very analytical and tend to overthink things as it is. Having this on my mind has been a whole different kind of beast. Did she cheat? What was real? How could she just cut it off after having an awesome weekend? Etc etc, just non-stop.
I try distraction, but it doesn't last very long.
Alan Robarge on YouTube explains why we get stuck in this kind of a relationship. Feeling like a rescuer for her just goes back to my, at times, troubled and not so caring childhood.
Having this forum though has been helping with writing some of that feelings out.

Another thing that helped me when detaching from my exgf was to think the worst. With my uBPD ex wife I didn't think her capable of doing the things I later found out. With every new revelation I was knocked back in my healing. By thinking the worst of my exgf I didn't get knocked back as far when things came to light.

[Confused#9999]

I'm trying to do that enlighten me, it's just hard to accept certain things in comparison how she portrayed herself. It's contradicting.

[enlighten me]

Yes it is contradicting. By accepting my exgf was a liar then anything she told me was possibly a lie. Now that I'm detached I can re-asses what was likely true (if I could be bothered).