Advice on Living With Abusive uBPDw While Waiting for Custody Order

[Radcliff]

I am still working through whether to get divorced but part of my process is understanding what my plan would be if I did it.  My highest priority is time with the kids, and I'm well aware of the importance of staying in the house.  Yet my wife goes nuts during a conflict when she says she wants a divorce and orders me out of "her" house and I won't leave.  Then she makes up with me ("I Hate You Don't Leave Me".  :)uring these rages, she steals things like wallet, cell phone, work laptop, car keys, my "go" bag with clothes and toiletries, etc... sabotages time with the kids, and stalks me around the house, wakes me up, kicks me, says she'll kill me and will make my life "a living hell", etc.  (the physical abuse is really emotional abuse; my best estimate is that the risk of injury to me is low, knock on wood).  And this is when divorce is *her* idea.  If it is *my* idea (which it may eventually be), she is likely to go completely berserk, and I'll frankly be so exhausted and sleep deprived it will be difficult to function at work and keep the job I'll need to pay alimony.  Yet I *really* don't want to leave and sacrifice my leverage on time with the kids -- my objective would be to set up a calm household where they can be 50% of the time.  It seems like a pretty impossible situation.  How could I expect her to do anything else than to go absolutely freaking nuts if I file for divorce and refuse to leave the house?  I worry that she would come completely unhinged.  Any advice on how to navigate the situation to stay safe and sane until we get a temporary order and I can move out?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[LilMe]

Welcome 

I am sorry you are dealing with this! How old are your children?

You should immediately read Bill Eddy's book Splitting, about high-conflict divorce. It gives you many tools and ideas. You must have a good lawyer. That is really the key ingredient in all this.

Know that many of have been through it and survived. You will get good advice here.

 

[livednlearned]

Hi Radcliff,

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this much conflict. It's a lot to handle, and I'm glad you're here gathering input from people who have walked this path.

My ex would also take my purse, phone, lock me out of the house, etc. I ended up renting a storage locker (discreetly) with a second set of everything I might need if he successfully kept me out of the house. I had back ups for everything, and a bank account and credit card only I could access.

Look carefully into the DV laws in your state. You may be a mandatory reporting state, in which case if you call the police, they have to arrest one of you. There are roughly 10 criteria that police use to decide who to arrest -- the largest person, anyone carrying a dangerous object in their hand, whether a third-party called to report, who is intoxicated, etc. You want to know exactly how things could go down if you end up calling them to report DV (which is what your wife is doing to you, btw).

In some states, they arrest both people and let the courts figure out who is at fault. If she is engaging in DV (and she is) and threatening to kill you, she may easily flip those allegations to you. One member here (thrown in jail for a false DV charge) advises people to carry the business card of a lawyer who handles criminal cases like DV (find out how it works where you live, if DV is handled in family law court -- it varies).

You could be right that this is as far as she goes with her abusive and violent behavior, and I completely understand why you are staying and how difficult it is to end things. When we play with fire, though, we should have some safety protocols and protective gear on hand. Just in case.

On a related note -- in my state, I found out that my ex's threats to kill me meant nothing because he didn't stay how he would kill me.

Once things got to that point, I got a storage locker, consulted with a few lawyers (paid cash), opened a bank account, got a credit card, started to see a therapist, read Splitting (the book LilMe recommends) and spent roughly a year gathering information and documenting my ex's behavior.

I also got my son into therapy while we were married. If you can, try to pull this one off. It turns into such a big headache after divorce for all the reasons you know too well.

I can't say enough about the people here and their advice. It made all the difference, and I vowed to pay it forward.

My ex is a former trial lawyer and I ended up with full custody. It took a while and I would never wish that journey on anyone, but I kept my focus on my goals and leaned on members here for support.

Hang in there, and know that information is gold in these cases. You can be a few steps ahead and do things to increase leverage and advantage.

LnL

[Marc33]

I am sorry to hear how crazy your situation is.  I will just share with you a little that I am going through now.

I also was very afraid to file for divorce and of other stages of the process.  I am not too far along, we have our first hearing this week.  But what I can tell you is that when I stopped being afraid of her reactions she started to react much less violently.  I have been seeing a therapist that has helped me to understand my wife's BPD and also to strengthen my personal emotional world.  That with reading books about BPD (I read Splitting, it was helpful) I am not intimidated by her anymore and that alone has seemed to keep her more in check.  When she doesn't feel that she can push me around, she doesn't! 

BPD is oddly predictable, not that you know exactly what is going to happen or when but you can know what types of reactions they will have and then it is less scary and you can prepare yourself.

Good luck with everything and keep strong!

[Radcliff]

Hello all!  Thanks for the wonderful advice!  I wrote a careful and thorough reply, and thought I'd posted it, but apparently failed, so I'll start with this short one and see if it sticks.  The short version of my response is that I'm deeply grateful, and your messages are a combination of reinforcement for things I knew or suspected, and new nuggets of wisdom which I appreciate and will read carefully again.  In answer to one question, I have three daughters, 11, 16, and 18 (the oldest is a freshman in college).

[Radcliff]

Hello all,

Again, thank you, thank you.  LilMe, I've read Splitting, and it was a big help, but your comment has encouraged me to read it again.  It's been a while, I need to master the material, and a second read after I've gained some more experience would be helpful.  livednlearned, I wondered if I was a total paranoid nut for renting a storage locker!  Hearing that you did the same made me feel a little more normal, thank you.  I have also just recently figured out a safe bank account, debit cards, and made spare car keys.  Today I bought a couple new pairs of shoes to leave at work, and soon I'll add some clothes to that in a bag under my desk so I can stay in a hotel and do the next work day at work in fresh clothes if I have to leave home suddenly (or if my wife disables my car again at the train station and I decide to go to a hotel and get to sleep rather than play games with her for an hour and a half while she drives around me in the train station parking lot.)  That last episode hit me hard, since I lost transportation, she was in total control, and I was worried about making it to work the next day.  Yes, Marc33, it is the patterns of BPD that have saved me.  When I thought things were random, it was totally unmanageable.  Now, I can spot the first signs of an episode and either head it off, blunt the impact, or protect myself.  The more prepared I am (e.g. spare clothes, keys, etc.) the more calm I am and able to keep things in check.  It's when she pulls a new trick that I have a lot of trouble (the car thing was new).  livednlearned, thanks for the tip about counseling.  I'd like to do that for my youngest daughter, but don't think I can pull it off.  I also really appreciate your thought on finding a defense attorney.  I've carefully selected and met twice with a divorce attorney I work well with, and plan to meet with her about once a month as I climb the learning curve.  It has been a massive help to my well being to know I have someone I can rely on if my wife chooses to file.  After hearing your advice, and reading some of the cautionary tales on this board, I think I'd like to have my defense attorney picked out.  (During a rage, my wife regularly threatens to file a DV complaint if I don't leave the house, and has said she will make sure I never coach my daughter's soccer team again by giving me a record).  I don't think I have time or should invest as much time as I will with the divorce attorney, but at least one meeting would help me feel like I had a plan if things really hit the fan.  Combining Marc33 and livednlearned's comments, a quiet confidence and strength backed by knowledge definitely helps lessen disaster and will help me plan.  It helps to know that my contingency planning is not crazy, and has been done by others.  Thank you all again for your advice and encouragement!

[livednlearned]

Circling you with your car... .geez.

You could be right that your wife becomes completely unhinged if you file for divorce. Is she diagnosed?

If not, and as strange as this sounds, unhinged may not be the worst thing ever.

You have to be a few steps ahead to make sure everyone stays safe.

Chances are, she has been able to (probably with your help) keep the symptoms of her disorder relatively contained. Going through a real loss (as opposed to perceived) may trigger psychosis or other psychological states that are far enough beyond normal they warrant a psychiatric evaluation. That happened in my case. My ex colored so far outside the lines that a motion for psychiatric evaluation was completely in step with what the court was thinking.

Also, do you live in a one-party consent state? If so, ask your L if keeping a recording device on you is recommended.

A couple other things that are good to keep in mind as you think things through:

*Find ways to comfort the kids in advance about things that could go wrong.
*Let the school counselor know, if you think getting an outside therapist for the kids won't work
*Keep in mind that any "temporary" custody order is actually permanent, in most cases.
*Ask your lawyer to offer to write up any of the rulings made by a judge
*Whenever possible, make sure your L includes consequences for non-compliance

There's more, but that's a start. Keep talking to people here until you reach saturation

You can get yourself and your kids through these things relatively ok, especially if you plan ahead and keep as much leverage as you can.

I'm sorry it's so hard to work right now and stay focused. I hope you have a few people at work who are there for you, or will be, when you need them. I let my HR department know that things were blowing up in my life -- I figured at some point my ex would rattle my cage at work and he did. Fortunately, by the time he started a writing campaign to my bosses, they were aware he was unglued. I shared with them some of the emails he wrote me (with threats to smear my name at work) and it turned out they already thought he was a head case   I guess I wasn't as good at hiding that as I thought.

LnL

[GaGrl]

You might want to ask your lawyer how to proactively get on record that your wife is threatening false DV charges.

[Radcliff]

Thank you, livednlearned and Gagrl for the additional advice!  That is super helpful.  About the circling with the car -- during a rage, she is generally emotionally desperate and not sadistic.  She wants me to be magic and meet her needs without any of my own.  Past a certain point -- sleep deprivation and physical abuse late at night -- it's no use splitting hairs and I'll call it sadistic regardless even if the drive is mental instability rather than evil.  But with the circling thing, she was stopping to talk to me on every loop of the parking lot, wanting me to either immediately quit my job with a long commute or give her all of our assets.  50% scared little girls and 50% monster.  Logic does not apply (if we make a plan for me to get a job closer to home, it would take a few months to make it happen as I am the sole earner).  And does she want to make up or divorce me?  She is essentially yelling both messages at once.  So I am preparing for both.  It is frustrating to have to sink so much energy into two totally separate and conflicting game plans, and it steals energy from whichever plan eventually is the one, not to mention my self, my kids and job.

And yes, the thing that is so hard to fathom is how high functioning she is.  She had the kind of childhood people write books about, yet she has a master's degree, and to all outside appearances is a totally great soccer mom -- all of her peers come to her for advice.  *I* have tremendous respect for her, what she does for our children, and what she has taught me, in most regards, except for the very specific areas of how she treats me, how we communicate, her rages, etc.  And yes, loss and abandonment is a big theme.  Her father died when she was young, and that's just the start of it.  As it happens, her mother just died, my wife has been in another state taking care of her for a few weeks, and we are flying to the funeral.  My wife is totally spent.  Once, just once, a few years ago, she dissociated late at night while under severe stress.  So I have seen that, and am worried about what will happen in the next few months.  She always turns on me when under stress.  This is a pattern I saw when we were very young, before we had kids, and I wish I could talk to the young me and knock some sense into him   Anyway, for the next little while I need to focus on helping her through her loss and keeping things stable, while growing and preparing slowly in the background.  And let me send virtual hugs and/or hearty handshakes to those who have been so helpful on this board.

[livednlearned]

Yah, the contingency planning is tough! Plan A, B, C, D, E  

Keep a really good journal of what you do, what she does, how she's behaving, how the kids are doing, how they respond to you. Keep receipts (to show a time stamp of where you were), keep a calendar of events. I used Google calendar, created one specifically to log events, appointments, communication, strange things, then I turned it into "agenda" view and printed it out so I had a chronological timeline that came in useful in many ways.

My ex, toward the end, started to email me because he wasn't talking to me anymore. At the time, it was excruciating! We had a child together and it was so difficult to be erased like that. But those emails contained multitudes, and eventually it was his own compulsion to email me that created a document trail, if only to counter the false statements he made in our court case.

I wish it was easier. Fortunately, you are doing the right thing, gathering information and thinking ahead, preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

LnL

[Panda39]

I just wanted to comment on the death of your wife's mother.  My SO's uBPDxw went off the deep end with the death of her mother most likely an extinction burst.  Abandonment is at the heart of BPD and death is the ultimate form of abandonment.  You may be experiencing an extinction burst also.  Below is a link to read more about it... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

I did not have a BPDx (I'm here because of my SO's ex) but I was in a dysfunctional/codependent marriage with an alcoholic.  I had to live with my ex almost a year from when I decided to divorce April, to when I filed May, to when the divorce was final August, to when the short sale on our townhome went through March the following year.  It was a major lesson in patience!  I don't think I had the level abuse you are experiencing but did encounter my fair share of drunken verbal abuse.  I spent as much time away from home (took my son with me) as I could... .3mile walks, trips to the library, movies, the grocery store etc.  I became the queen of running errands.  It did help some to get out of the house when I could.

Take care, keep planning and protecting your self... .safely document the abuse.  And I want to second contacting your children's school counselors and teachers regarding the situation at home.

Panda39

[Radcliff]

Thanks, livednlearned, I like the Google calendar idea, and I never would have thought of the agenda view.   One of the ways I stay sane and under control when she is raging is to type what is happening into my phone as it is happening (not in her sight of course).  I ported it to a Word document lately, and was astonished to see that I'd accumulated 50 full size pages covering the past year and a half!  I try to keep it to just what a lawyer or GAL would care about, not padded with therapist "fluff" (I started a separate document to catch thoughts in that category).  The problem, I realized, is how to summarize the information, since it might be hard to get anybody to read 50-100 pages!  A timeline like you suggest might be helpful.  I was thinking of a one-pager that simply contained dates and perhaps quotes of death threats, physical assault, and incidents with the kids.  OK, maybe it would be more than one page.  It has been a huge reassurance to have all of this documented, because if I didn't, I'd forget most of the details, and would appear confused and defensive -- "really, it was very bad, I'm telling the truth."  Sure it was.  Just to be able to express my reality, to read and understand the totality of it myself (when I am inclined to minimize) and be able to share it with a lawyer or therapist, is such a huge win for me.   There is so much material there, it is stunning.  (To your point on e-mails, my wife has sent some remarkable texts, which I capture with a screen shot and paste in my journal).  I realize that it doesn't guarantee any particular outcome in family court, which is why I have a lot more to learn.  It is also so potentially destructive to my wife, I may never want to use it, but it is there if I need it.  One place I need to raise my game is in documenting my positive activities with the children and around the house.  These are pretty extensive, and I need to be standing on bedrock in that category as well.  Sorry to be so long-winded, but it helps to talk!

[livednlearned]

Documentation in my case -- I created 3-ring binders and had dividers with labels: alcoholism, threats, name-calling, etc. This was super useful (and saved me money) for a deposition. The calendar helped refresh my memory and I was surprisingly current on facts, which increased my credibility and freaked out the opposing lawyer, who (according to my L) decided I was too much of a credible witness for trial. He then pressured ex to settle on terms that were more favorable to me.

We went to court anyway, later. Because BPD. But still, all that prep worked in my favor.

Also, I notice in my case I had a good judge who was probably more on the intuitive side. Having documentation made it much easier for him to rule in my favor, repeatedly. One thing I learned is that the judge is considered the supreme witness in a case, and a ruling can be overturned in appeal if there are signs of favoritism. I think that may be why some judges split things down the middle, and it certainly explains (to me) why my judge would lecture me in court (freaking me out) and then rule in my favor. That way, no allegation of favoritism could reasonably stick.

There is so much monkey business in family court. It's terrible at sorting out the truth, especially in high conflict cases.

Keep hanging around here! The collective wisdom is so useful, and will make you a better problem-solver with your lawyer, which is how it should be.

[scraps66]

If it looks like it will get bad, and you could be put in situations that could land you in jail or with a PFA, it may be better to devise a plan that has one of you seeking residence elsewhere.

I filed, my L's advice was just to wait it out and see what ex does, she didn't respond to the notice, she wasn't working.  So I waited, nearly a year, then she got a job - AND kicked me out of the house.  I lost control of my case due to the fact that I didn't have a plan and played ketchup the next four years roughly.

Living together with a BP can be tough.  I would invest in a tape recorder.  I had one and used it once.  I whipped it out during one of ex's rages.  I was amazed and it was really revealing how swiftly she could change her demeanor to suit her needs.  Seeing the recorder she immediately turned to verbally accusing me of trying to intimidate her.  As if on que and on stage, impressive.

One other thing to consider as happened in my case.  If you're living together your STBx may get the impression that the divorce will not happen.  This is what happened to me.  Ex's behavior would continue to spiral, she would disappear for nights on end "sleeping around" all the while putting on this angel act for our two boys.     

[ForeverDad]

If/when you do separate, whether she leaves or you leave, plan ahead for various scenarios and options since it may be rushed as scrapps66 wrote.

If you have to leave suddenly, you may have time only  to arrange a couch, hotel room or small corner somewhere.  However, don't choose a small place for the medium/long term.  She would naturally claim you have no room for the kids.  You need sufficient room and close enough to their schools so that won't be a factor when court decides on a parenting schedule.  (If left up to her you won't get much at all.  So don't leave it up to her.  typically courts are less unfair than oppositional and obstructing spouses.)

[Radcliff]

Hello all,

This was my first thread on the boards, and I wanted to thank you, particularly LnL, for your support.  LilMe, LnL, and others, you were the first ones that made me feel like I wasn't crazy, like someone understood.  Gagrl, Panda39, and ForeverDad, I've become familiar with your contributions to the boards over these last few months, and am honored to be reminded that you were there for me in my first thread.  Marc33 and scraps66, I hope your situations have gone the best possible way for you.  I went quiet for a few months, then came back in the summer and became a regular on the boards.  Everyone here helped me to realize how to sort priorities and take action.  My wife is now living separately, removed from the home on a domestic violence restraining order, and is enrolled both in a a 52-week batterer's program as well as DBT therapy.  We are communicating by text message, collaborating on care for the kids, and her therapist is coaching her on the text messages with me.  It's too early to tell how things will go, but if anything can get us to a good place, the current plan is it.  Thank you again for helping me when I rolled in as a newbie.  I have come so far with your help.  I will never forget.

RC

[Panda39]

Hi Radcliff,

Thank you for the update, it is nice to hear the progress that has been made in your situation since you first arrived here.  We all have the same goal to support and improve the lives of the members here.  I know that you are doing the same for others.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas      and continued progress in the upcoming year.

Panda39  

[ForeverDad]

Everyone here helped me to realize how to sort priorities and take action.  My wife is now living separately, removed from the home on a domestic violence restraining order, and is enrolled both in a a 52-week batterer's program as well as DBT therapy.  We are communicating by text message, collaborating on care for the kids, and her therapist is coaching her on the text messages with me.  It's too early to tell how things will go, but if anything can get us to a good place, the current plan is it.

I am glad to hear something rare around here, that court has taken practical steps to address issues and require attempts at what could be a long term solution.

In my own case, Municipal court dealt with my ex-spouse's Threat of DV.  After a few months of continuances we had a trial, she admitted to threatening my life but judge ruled that without a weapon in her hands her threats were not "imminent" per case law and so she was declared Not Guilty.

Within days of the start of the DV case, she rushed to Domestic court seeking to block my parenting.  Domestic court only dealt with the custodial and parenting schedule while totally ignoring, as far as I could discern, the pending DV or psychological issues evident in the municipal case.  The magistrate never commented on her pending DV case in the other court, only asked what our work schedules were.  And she got temp custody and temp majority time until the final decree over two years later.  To say she was entitled and obstructive would be an understatement.  But it's now well in the past, eventually her entitlement balloon was burst 6 years after the final decree (full custody and majority time during the school year was what it took) and we haven't been back to court since.

[Radcliff]

Hello Panda39 and ForeverDad!  I have been very fortunate in many regards.  First, every single person I've spoken to -- police, DV advocates, lawyers, etc. have been totally professional and unbiased with me as a male survivor.  I could not have asked for more helpful, respectful treatment.  Second, I don't have a lot of experience with it, but I think the court system where I live is reasonably enlightened.  It's all handled in Family Court.  My DV advocate took me to sit in on one of our judge's court sessions, and I was impressed by how well prepared he was (he had read all the case material for each case) and how careful he was to give the parties time to present, how he arranged for additional information if things weren't clear, etc.  The third thing was that I moved first, and did so with incredibly good documentation.  The fourth thing for which I'm grateful is that once my wife realized I had officialdom behind me and it was no longer just me pitted against her, she did a 180, negotiated an out of court extension to the restraining order, and started both a batterer's program and DBT -- so she gets a ton of credit for that.  Had she come out swinging I would have been prepared, but it would have been a totally different story.

RC

[ozmatoz]

Had she come out swinging I would have been prepared, but it would have been a totally different story.

Indeed it would have been.  I'm happy for you and remain hopeful that things can progress for you and the family.

-Oz

[Radcliff]

Thanks, Oz!

RC