Introduction Ex wBP - Lost on How to Get Her Back

[kahlersj]

I have just found out through my counselor that my ex gf is almost certainly BPD.  And now I know that everything I did during the relationship of 3 years only further harmed the relationship.  The 15 months was so hard, with bizarre fights all the time, out of nowhere.  Her jealousy about my work-trips was awful.  In the end, I lied to avoid a public fight.  I had to travel overnight, but tried to hide it, thinking I'd simply call her in the morning like I always do (after my flight landed).  In the middle of the night after multiple calls I told her I was still in the other city.  It blew up and in her mind crystallized every ill thought about me.  She moved back to her previous city two weeks later.  And only since then have I realized the BPD.  I've known her since 6th grade (now late 40s).  We had been casual friends for decades. 

I don't know how to begin to get her back.  I miss her so badly.  I've spent the last 5 weeks understanding and working on myself.  I don't know if I can get her into counseling, and that might take some time.  But I know whether it be with me or without me that she needs help.  Is there a general process with those with BPD to undo the judgment and begin anew?   

Thanks all.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mutt]

Hi kahlersj, 



I'd like to welcome to you to  bpdfamily. I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like you have a long lasting r/s as friends that turned romantic? Has she done something similar in the past?

[Meili]

I want to join Mutt in welcoming you to the  bpdfamily.



I'm not exactly sure what you mean about a general process, but there are some things that you can do to improve your chances of beginning anew. It might help if we know more about what you did in the past though. You said that you are learning that things that you did during the relationship caused harm. What sort of things do you mean?

[kahlersj]

Good questions, and I meant to include those details.  I have a bad need to be "right".  So during the relationship whenever confronted with many of her allegations I would go through the process of proving her wrong; and I would argue my side.  Not one time did I ever stop to try to understand the underlying need that she was expressing.  I was so hurt by many of the allegations that I had to prove like I was not like the person she was accusing me of being.   Whenever I was on a business trip, or out with a friend, or in a meeting, etc. I would take a picture of whomever I was with just to prove to her that I was where I said I was.  It never mattered.  Invariably I would be accused of having taken the picture earlier, or having run out of that meeting only to quickly hook up with someone else, or "who wasn't in the picture that you're trying to hide?"   During the breakup she accused me of being "Mr Cocaine/Ecstasy. And everybody says so."  And, of course, I simply said "you'r nuts", which was my typical response to most accusations.

She divorced her first husband after 6 months accusing him of cheating.  She divorced her second husband after 12 years and 3 kids, due to sexual abuse of the minors, and physical abuse of she and the children (confirmed; not just alleged).  During the years prior to she and I dating she accused one former S.O. of putting a tracker on her car and phone, another of disappearing for periods of time and doing/selling ecstasy.  So, knowing this, it was torture being lumped in with being "just like them" especially when she'd call me her ex-husband's nickname and laugh.

We had near-misses for decades as she was dating/married and I was dating/married.  But 3 years ago we started a romantic relationship that was fantastic for the first two years.  It was punctuated with bouts of BPD-like instances, but was very good overall aside from this.

[Meili]

You certainly are not alone in feeling compelled to try to prove the accusations false. I went through two years of that before I finally understood exactly what you said, that by JADE'ing, I was essentially invalidating my uBPDexgf. At the time, I truly believed that if I could just get her to understand "reality" that everything would be better.

What I've learned is that my trying to convince her of my version of "reality," I was telling her that her's was wrong. This translated, in her mind, to she was wrong, unworthy, and I was going to leave her at any moment. It never ended well... .

When I stopped JADE'ing, stopped invalidating her, and started to listen to what she was telling me, things started to get better and easier.

It sounds like you followed the path that I and many others have taken. We do what comes naturally to us without knowing any better. There are healthier ways to handle things however. We can learn to communicate in a different fashion. There are many great lessons on communicating on this site. There are a few in the links to the right of the page (as well as the one that I provided earlier in this post).

You can also find a great deal of support and advice by reading the posts of others and responding to them when you feel comfortable.

Are the two of you still in contact?

[kahlersj]

Thank you.  We are only just back in contact as of today via a very simple text with no expectation.  After no contact for a month I reached out and text "I woke up to an email from Ticketmaster about an upcoming xxxxx/xxx concert.  I couldn't help but smile. That was a great nite. I hope u're well."  She responded a while later, and I responded back with a positive text.   I'll leave it alone for a couple/few days.  But I'm lost as to what to do thereafter. 

[Mutt]

Hi kahlersj,

My advice is coach and lead. Empathy is a crucial part of a r/s, there's an underlying reason why she's acting the way that she is, read as much as you can about the disorder, it helps to put ourselves in someone else's shoes, validate what is validate and don't validate the invalidate. Don't listen so much to the words when she's emotionally dysregulated, look at the actions and read between the lines.

[Meili]

In my personal opinion, as long as there is contact, you have the option to build a healthier relationship. As Mutt said, coach and lead.

As much as possible, keep things light and friendly while avoiding relationship talks unless she initiates them. When that happens, again, as Mutt said, listen with empathy and don't invalidate.

Sometimes it feels unnatural and counter-intuitive, but the communication skills have proven successful for some of the members here.

[kahlersj]

I cannot tell you enough how much I appreciate your thoughts and input here.  Can you help direct me to where I can find information to learn to "coach and lead"?  Of all that I've read I haven't come across this yet.

[Meili]

Coaching and leading, as I used it, could be looked at as "leading by example" when you have a solid understanding of the BPD traits. By understanding how a pwBPD thinks and responds allows the non to tailor comments and responses. At first, it can seem overwhelming, but with practice, it becomes second nature. The boon here is that it is also second nature in all of your relationships!

With consistent, more healthy communication, trust can be built easier. Knowing that fear is a hallmark of BPD, trust is generally in short supply. When the pwBPD feels more secure, he/she should dysregulate less and thus begin to learn to trust more.

Early on in my experience with BPD romantic relationships (although I didn't know what was going on at the time), I was told that we teach others how to treat us. So, by listening with empathy, not invalidating, and defining and maintaining healthy boundaries, we are coaching our pwBPD. We are showing them how we want and need to be treated by treating them that way and not accepting bad treatment. This teaches others how to treat us.

Also, as the emotionally stronger person in the relationship, we have the ability to guide the relationship. Sometimes the pwBPD may follow or they may not, that's unique to each relationship. There is no guaranteed outcome. But, through understanding of the disorder and how it affects those who suffer from it and healthier communication, the chances improve.

It also helps to accept the situation and the pwBPD for what they are. We have to have  realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.

Does that answer what you were asking, or were you looking for something more specific?

[Mutt]

It was more of a figure of speech, there is a coach position in TED ( the empowerment triangle) which is the opposite of the Karpmann Drama Triangle. That being said, i've been in your position, my ex and I use to have awful, I felt miserable and resentful, nothing was being accomplished. It was destructive behavior in th r/s. We're divorced, when a marriage ends it doesn't necessarily mean that the conflict ends. This is the part that I think is applicable with coaching and leading. I wanted the conflict stop for the sake of the kids.

I'd like to echo Meili, I had to concede and it's not so much as giving in but it's taking control of something that feels like is out of control and never ending. For the longest time I was trying to control her and expecting her to change, she has social impairments and what she does is not something that she can control. BPD Is lack of impulse control. Take lead by doing the self work, learn the communication and conflict resolution tools, when you change, everything changes around you.

[kahlersj]

This certainly helps.  Thank you.

I have additional question that maybe you can help with.  I have weakly attempted an empathy statement in the past stating "I'm sorry you feel that way" and she exploded at that statement.  Is there a better way to make a statement empathizing with SO?

[Mutt]

If it were me in that context, i'd simply say "I understand." I hope that helps.


PS You'll find the lessons to the right side of the board  

[Meili]

Yeah, I learned the hard way how that particular statement can go wrong very quickly.

What my ex heard when I said that to her was, "I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't feel that way. Therefore, you are wrong for feeling that way." It was really invalidating to her. It came across a judgement against her.

There's a good lesson on VALIDATION that might prove helpful to you. It really helped me understand that a lot of things that I said in an effort to validate her were actually invalidating. The most common for me was, "Man, feeling that way hurts, I know that I hate it when someone does that to me, but... ." It's the "but... ." part that destroys it.

If you can give us some specific examples, we may be able to help you find a better way to phrase it.

[kahlersj]

Is it ever ok to tell my exBPDgf that I suspect that she may be BPD? Of course I would do it from a point of empathy and concern connecting some dots from her childhood, her mother, etc.  Otherwise, how do they ever realize that they might need help?

Is it ok to tell her 22yo & 21yo children, who are both very smart, but very close to their mother? 

[Meili]

Personally, I'd never tell someone that I suspected was disordered that I thought that, especially someone with BPD. It could trigger all sorts of fears and would likely end poorly. Besides, I am not a doctor and cannot diagnose anyone.

There is an article about Getting a "Borderline" into Therapy that might prove helpful to you though.

Also, I would not tell the family members either. Divided loyalties never seem to play out well. Instead, you can show them new ways of communicating with their mother by doing so yourself.

[kahlersj]

That is such a good video.  And I shared it with my boss who is one year into working toward treatment for his bipolar daughter, diagnosed a year ago.  He found value in it as well and it's quite helpful.

I am continuing to slowly open a line of communication with my exBPDgf.  There's so much I want to tell her, but I just need to take it slow.  I'm struggling because my family/friends who have seen how she's treated me over the past year want me to stay far away while the opportunity has presented itself.  But they forget that we have been friends for 35 years (since 6th grade).  I care about her and, more importantly to me, I care what happens to her and I don't want her hurt.  But I guess if she doesn't want to talk there's simply no way to make that happen.

[Meili]

Agreed, there is no way to make it happen if she doesn't want to communicate.

As for your friends and family... .Maybe an analogy will help?

I ride motorcycles... .and I mean I ride them a lot. When I uneducated about the dangers of being on a bike, I didn't protect myself much. I rode fast and without much care. After a few wrecks (smacking into a house at speed hurts if you weren't aware!), having cars run me off the road because I wasn't watching what I was doing, and not taking the time to learn to ride well; I discovered that I was doing it all wrong. I learned to ride. I took the time to understand what riding well actually meant. I learned about protective gear.

Because of those hard earned lessons, I now protect myself on the bike. I wear the gear that keeps me as safe as possible. Is there any guarantee that I won't get killed, end up paralyzed, break bones, or get road rash? No. But, the chances have been greatly reduced.

I now understand what a motorcycle can and cannot do. I stopped expecting it to do things that it was incapable of doing.

I now know when to pull back and let physics do its thing and wait for the bike to settle when in the past I would fight what the bike was trying to do.

In short, I've managed to survive on a motorcycle for some 30 odd years because I learned and have taken protective measure. It's the same thing with a BPD relationship. Learning the physics of riding is the same as learning the mind of a pwBPD and about the disorder. Learning what a motorcycle is and is not capable of is akin to learning how the pwBPD functions and what they can and cannot tolerate. My safety gear is a boundary... .the tangible manifestation of the boundaries that we use to protect our core beliefs.

Some of my family and friends think that I'm nuts for riding a motorcycle. I stopped trying to convince them differently. I've shown them over the years that I accept the responsibility of protecting myself and I've managed to keep myself safe.

[kahlersj]

The last two weeks have been a flurry of renewed activity, and I'm getting ready to board a plane to see her for the weekend.  We began texting a week ago, spoke on the phone early this, and now meeting. The conversations and texts range from seething to "can't wait to see" me.  I'm incredibly excited to see her, but I'm also recognizing how I still respond so poorly to the negative things she says.

She's a very bright woman. And I hurt her by lying to avoid a fight.  So now that she knows I lied she uses this as a never-ending weapon against me.  Since I lied about one thing now I'm always a liar when she's been triggered.

I'm excited to see her! But I have a lot of anxiety about her lashing out over her insecurities and jealousy.  She's convinced I'm sleeping with every woman I meet, and when I attempt to say anything in response she lashes out that I'm a liar.  I'm hoping I can deal with this better in person. I hate the fights.

[Meili]

She's convinced I'm sleeping with every woman I meet, and when I attempt to say anything in response she lashes out that I'm a liar. 

The very best things that you can do here is to listen with empathy, not validate the invalid, and validate her feelings.

When we are attacked, our natural reaction is to JADE. We feel compelled to argue and defend ourselves. That will only make things worse.

I strongly suggest that you listen to what she's telling you rather than the words that she's using. Accusations like that seem to come from a place of fear. That's probably what is being conveyed and what you need to address in an empathetic, kind, and caring way.

[kahlersj]

She and I had a fantastic weekend.  And we both shared a number of things that we hadn't previously stated.  Once I returned to TX there was an instance two nights ago where her insecurities flared up almost immediately.  While it instantaneously turned into a fight I was surprised by two things: 1) I was able to deescalate the situation 2) she APOLOGIZED for her insecurities!  She had never apologized for anything in 3 years!  I was floored and excited!  Maybe there is hope!