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Author Topic: This just doesn't makes any sense - 2  (Read 795 times)
FallenOne
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« on: January 17, 2017, 12:08:56 PM »

If they weren't sexually abused then how do you explain them developing BPD?

Is all of this madness really just from neglectful parents?


Prior:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304431.0
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 12:35:45 PM »

Also when my ex would push/ pull with me she had told me she didn't know how to love!

The similarities are astounding. My ex also said that she had difficulty in loving others, errr, and then said 5 minutes later that she thought that she did love me.

So what was real and what wasn't - I have no idea.

If they weren't sexually abused then how do you explain them developing BPD?

Is all of this madness really just from neglectful parents?

This is the right question, and I can't answer you. All I do know is that my ex said that she really hated her mother and indeed was still punishing her to this day, even though my ex is now 50 years old.

I also was never allowed to meet her mother, so maybe that's all nonsense too. Who knows.

Scarily my ex said that she had legally gained control of her mother's finances (through power of attorney) and used to just gave her mother enough money to get by day to day... .a bit like pocket money. Unless that was a lie too?
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 12:43:35 PM »

Is all of this madness really just from neglectful parents?

not exactly. if you check out the Parenting board, it is hardly full of neglectful parents. in some cases, parenting styles and a childs personality may not mesh. sometimes its a predisposition, coupled with an invalidating home environment - even with parents who love their children whole heartedly.
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 04:05:21 PM »

I honestly don't see any end to possible supply sources.

My ex always has multiple on the go at once
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 11:52:08 PM »

why mess with them? the relationship (and messing with each other) has ended. heal and move on  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

A pwBPD already has enough mess, no need to add to it. Once removed has given excellent advice, heal and move on.
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 03:52:11 AM »

If your EX is truly cluster B you are completely wasting your time and energy. You cannot teach a Cluster B a lesson. You cannot make them understand, feel, or have empathy for your emotions.  She violated every boundary you had by cheating on you,, lying to you, and whatever else this particular cluster B witch did to you, and her response is to tell YOU that you have no heart.

Let me help you out with one simple phrase, it is all about her, it is all about her, it is all about her.
Once you accept this simple phrase as the reality of dealing with a Cluster B sink in as the truth only then will you realize how much you are completely wasting your time.
Any contact, "revenge" or weak manipulation attempts you make such as sending her a picture to make her jealous only serve to make her dislike you more,  she will just use them to justify her awful behavior t words you.

"SEE, he has no heart!  Good thing I lied to him, cheated on him!"

You are completely wasting your time. You absolutely cannot give a cluster B a "dose of their own medicine"  She doesn't even operate on the same level of concscience that you do.

Would you try to teach a Rabbit Trigonometry?
Do not waste your time on any more "Lessons"
Love yourself, cut the cluster B witch out of your life forever.
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 04:59:07 AM »


What if they run out of "sources" and they end up committing suicide?

Matt, What if she truly did care about you and it overwhelmed her so she had to leave. Then finding out you had died because you want to play a game on her led her to commit suicide? would you feel like you won? I doubt it. Sure these people can do terrible things. My ex sure did during the break up. That doesn't give me or you the right to do terrible or bad things. If you loved this person, you'd understand they are troubled and you'd wish them the best. Loving someone means being able to let them go. However I always look for the best in people and am still hung up on mine.

You're bitter and I get it you want her to feel the pain you feel. The best way to do that is to live the life you wanted to live with her independently.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 10:42:39 AM »

My ex hasn't contacted me yet (just posted about me online so that's fun), but she did say she might talk to me in "a decade maybe" when we finally stopped talking. If she did ever call I'd be scared to pick up, let alone try anything like this. I know she's always going to out maneuver me and manipulate anything I say to her advantage.  
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FallenOne
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 11:27:27 AM »

Matt, What if she truly did care about you and it overwhelmed her so she had to leave. Then finding out you had died because you want to play a game on her led her to commit suicide? would you feel like you won? I doubt it. Sure these people can do terrible things. My ex sure did during the break up. That doesn't give me or you the right to do terrible or bad things. If you loved this person, you'd understand they are troubled and you'd wish them the best. Loving someone means being able to let them go. However I always look for the best in people and am still hung up on mine.

You're bitter and I get it you want her to feel the pain you feel. The best way to do that is to live the life you wanted to live with her independently.

No, I would feel terrible if she did that and the guilt would consume me... I already feel guilty from breaking up with her in the past. I don't want to cause her any harm. I just want her to acknowledge that I exist. She got a restraining order on me over nothing and I don't understand the level of hate that is being sent my way. Maybe her love for me did overwhelm her, or maybe not, I don't know... Maybe the relationship was too much for her to handle right now... I don't know the answers to this either and it's just speculation. But, it's really difficult not even having someone you were with for 4 years even acknowledge that you exist and that you did a lot of wonderful things for them.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2017, 08:45:19 AM »

I'm curious, but since they take no time to reflect, grieve or work on themselves after the relationship fails, and they move on to your replacement right away, do they carry the baggage of your failed relationship over to the new one and does it have negative effects on their new relationship?

I know that if I moved on to a new relationship while I was still dealing with the thoughts and emotions of my failed relationship, it would probably get in the way of the new relationship and cause problems in it.

Is this the same for BPD's? Since they take no time to learn from the mistakes they made, are they just going to plague their new relationship with our replacement? Is our replacement in a sense just a rebound relationship?

Is this replacement more about love or just more about their current needs that they have that they felt you couldn't meet at the moment?
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 10:11:19 AM »

Matt,

 I think it would help if you stop thinking in terms of a healthy person (you) having a relationship with a monolithic robot.

 If you set aside the fact that she has BPD, and just look at the dynamics of a failed relationship where one person wants to go and one person wants to stay, you'll get an answer to your question.  She grieved the relationship during the relationship, and when the two of you split, her focus was on her new life.  Your focus, because you didn't grieve, because you were not leaver, is on the loss of the person.  This is the age-old story of love.

Not everything a BPD partner does is pathological. The eat, breathe, walk just like other humans.  They are highly unpredictable beings, just as you are, and as I am.

 Will really help to look at what happened in your relationship first in terms of normal pathology of two people.  Once you understand that, then you can start to look at how the tendencies of a person with this disorder influenced things.  And, you can look at how your own tendencies influenced it - many of us did dysfunctional things in the relationship too.

Don't buy into the urban legends that permeate the Internet - the negative or the positive.

To answer you question. Your gf likely grieved when you broke up with her when she was vulnerable (hospitalized). The getting together months later was likely a "rebound" - she was reaching out to you to resolve a painful breakup. When she started to resolve it, the resentment took over and she left. This is a pretty normal reaction. Whatever happened in the relationship was most likely dwarfed by the bedside breakup in the same way an affair will dwarf all the other wrongs in a failing relationship.

I suspect where the BPD is most coming to play is in her current efforts to become someone different to better reflect the people she is hanging out with. That is a BPDish type of thing. She is also likely trying to put your relationship in the past because the painful emotions of it are so overwhelming to her that she is running from them. Remember, you said she had PTSD.

Is her current relationship love or a rebound and is her life affected by the pains of your relationship with her... .No one can know, but it sounds like she is desperately trying to bury pain, more than she is trying to find herself. We are all capable of this - peBPD, more so.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 11:14:45 AM »

To answer you question. Your gf likely grieved when you broke up with her when she was vulnerable (hospitalized). The getting together months later was likely a "rebound" - she was reaching out to you to resolve a painful breakup. When she started to resolve it, the resentment took over and she left. This is a pretty normal reaction. Whatever happened in the relationship was most likely dwarfed by the bedside breakup in the same way an affair will dwarf all the other wrongs in a failing relationship.

Give me your solid opinion on this... Was the relationship doomed from the beginning or did I myself doom the relationship when I left her in the hospital? Do you think the relationship would have continued to be rocky and eventually ended anyway (prolonging the inevitable) or was leaving her in the hospital really the end of it?

Remember, she didn't leave constantly like this until AFTER I went back to her AFTER I left her in the hospital. Up until this point, she was clingy and regardless of what happened did not leave...
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 11:47:41 AM »

We talk about the BPD spectrum (ranging from traits, to disorder, to severe disorder) and your ex was hospitalized twice in a year. That suggest severe. Most exs here are on the lower end - pre-clinical. The disorder was a huge barrier to having a stable relationship.

Independent of that, breaking up with someone in the hospital, during the death of a parent, beating a child, having an affair - these are often non-recoverable events in relationships.

So, both are true.

I get why you are struggling with this. The last thing any of us want to hear is that we were left behind for good reason. Many members struggle with this very thing.

And I think a lot of us want a free pass. I didn't create this (relationship problem). As hard as we try, we don't ever convince ourselves - because in reality its a lot more complicated.

To me, I hear a guy struggling to understand some basic aspects of human nature. I'd might shift myself in that direction because it will help you going forward.
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 01:56:04 PM »

I think they carry the baggage. However not in the way that's normal.

I think they use it for them being selfish. By that I mean, wow my ex was such a bad person because a,b,c. Man I'm so terrified of my ex, please new boyfriend protect me from my hurt and pain.

Meanwhile the real victim, us, is trying to pick up the pieces and are confused because we tried our best and wasn't a bad guy/chick at all. Then have to deal with the pain of them leaving, replacing, and painting us blacker than black.


So, back to the point. Yes they carry the baggage. However not in the same way most would, but for selfish reasons of getting attention.
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 02:39:59 PM »

Man I'm so terrified of my ex, please new boyfriend protect me from my hurt and pain.

This happens a lot. Do you think it is a true belief or a manipulation or situation dependent?

Is it reasonable to be terrified if a partner broke up while you were in the hospital?

Hard questions... .
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FallenOne
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 02:48:46 PM »

I'll admit I still feel guilt over breaking up with mine while she was in the psych hospital, but I was also pushed to my limit by her behavior and if I had broken up with her outside of the hospital, bad things might have happened... .It would have been a chaotic breakup.

But, at the same time, I still wish the relationship hadn't failed, and I feel like my choice to breakup with her in the hospital is why she kept leaving after going back to her  a few months later.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 02:56:41 PM »

This happens a lot. Do you think it is a true belief or a manipulation or situation dependent?

Is it reasonable to be terrified if a partner broke up while you were in the hospital?

Hard questions... .

Mine did this with her ex's when she first got together with me, as well as her family members throughout the relationship any time they did something to make her angry or didn't support her.

It's hard to tell whether or not it's a manipulation tactic or if it just comes natural... Part of me believes that she was doing this because she wanted it to support her victim role, but also seemed to want to turn me against (or at least make me angry at) her family and/or ex's...

Part of me also thinks that her distorted thinking and her way of distorting memories of what REALLY happened (not what they think happened) makes them believe that they really were wronged somehow (in their mind)... .

Thoughts?
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 03:35:33 PM »

Mine did this with her ex's when she first got together with me, as well as her family members throughout the relationship any time they did something to make her angry or didn't support her.

It's hard to tell whether or not it's a manipulation tactic or if it just comes natural... Part of me believes that she was doing this because she wanted it to support her victim role, but also seemed to want to turn me against (or at least make me angry at) her family and/or ex's...

Part of me also thinks that her distorted thinking and her way of distorting memories of what REALLY happened (not what they think happened) makes them believe that they really were wronged somehow (in their mind)... .

Thoughts?

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes I reflect on some of the things that happen, and find evidence of where it could be manipulative. However, at the same time I hear constantly that it's natural, and it's just a way to avoid shame... Then they kinda get caught in the tide and it ends up getting to the point where they end up making you all black, and feel justified on causing chaos.
Also, the new boyfriend/girlfriend I find tends to unknowingly enable the behavior.
In the end, the BPD gets the validation they want, and has someone to confirm their distorted view.

I think, either way they feel they were wronged. Whether it is distorted memories or a trigger. They feel, in their mind, that we deserve it. It's scary tbqh.

I always find it fascinating when mine has moments of clarity, starts idolizing, and realizes how horrible she's been. Doesn't last too long however.
Since mine has new supply, I don't see mine having a moment of clarity again. Who knows. Not the first time I've been surprised. I expect it would only happen if the new supply is painted black.  
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 03:37:33 PM »

I genuinely believe they believe what they say.

At the end of our relationship after goading and poking me so I blew up on her my ex ran out of her flat into her neighbour's (who she then started (was already?) to date) saying I was being violent towards her. I don't think I have to tell anyone here that I've never ever raised a hand to anyone and violence is simply not in my nature. But because I lost my temper and shouted at her, she then had all the justification she needed to paint me black.

Now 10 years on and she's back, she's telling me she's scared of her husband (alluding that he's violent towards her) - I know she's not been happy (surprise!) in this relationship for years (and I know he drinks a lot and gets wasted all the time - I'm guessing because he's so miserable) and she's now trying to paint him black in the hope I'll step in and save her. Knowing what I do know of her, she'll have pushed all his buttons and whatever's happened behind closed doors she's using again as justification to paint her partner black. And due to the bullying nature of these people I'm also guessing there's no truth in him being violent as the BPDs like people who have weaker boundaries and are more likely to lie down and take it.

However, as with a lot of these BPDs they have limited memories and she doesn't remember I've been on the other end of her accusations so I'm immune to her drama, however I do recognise she genuinely believes what she says. And it's scary because I know for a fact there was simply no basis whatsoever for the things she accused me of.

They seem to be completely blind or have a genuine mental/emotional/social black spot for their own actions and so after pushing and goading their partner and the partner reacts in a negative way they then see themselves justified to accuse.

They know all their rights as an individual but none of their responsibilities to those who they interact with.  
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 03:44:49 PM »

Part of me also thinks that her distorted thinking and her way of distorting memories of what REALLY happened (not what they think happened) makes them believe that they really were wronged somehow (in their mind)... .

i think its good advice to take BPD out of the equation here.

how many of us have ever behaved in a manipulative fashion? we werent necessarily conscious of it, but if called on it would probably admit it. whyd we do it? not necessarily because we had bad intentions, but more or less because it worked.

im not saying thats necessarily the case here. victimhood tends to come from a pretty strong conviction, and is often part of the belief system of a person with BPD.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2017, 08:35:36 AM »

They seem to be completely blind or have a genuine mental/emotional/social black spot for their own actions and so after pushing and goading their partner and the partner reacts in a negative way they then see themselves justified to accuse.

Mine would do/say things that she knew would upset me or hit a nerve and she would keep poking at me until I exploded... .Once I exploded or defended myself, I was the bad person suddenly... .Sound familiar?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 09:02:52 AM »

Did any of your ex's say "I love you" excessively? As in multiple times a day or more.

Mine started saying it after about two weeks into the relationship...

And once it started, she said it constantly. If I ever didn't say it back, she glitched out, started to worry and became insecure as if I didn't love her...

If I said it back in a way that sounded unenthusiastic, this also made her worry...

Did anyone else experience this?
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2017, 09:49:38 AM »

Yes.
Word for word.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2017, 09:57:22 AM »

Did any of your ex's say "I love you" excessively? As in multiple times a day or more.

Mine started saying it after about two weeks into the relationship...

And once it started, she said it constantly. If I ever didn't say it back, she glitched out, started to worry and became insecure as if I didn't love her...

If I said it back in a way that sounded unenthusiastic, this also made her worry...

Did anyone else experience this?


My experience was different.  My ex would not say it unless she was prompted.
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2017, 10:44:39 AM »

 Two weeks into relationship... .maybe three, she tells me she loves me... .via text msg, on her way back home from my place... .yeah, a text msg... .these daze, its I love you, I don't know what I would do without you, to... .(split black) I hate you, I loathe you, I am getting a divorce from you, we are at mile marker 9+ years now, six years married... .we were both previously married, me 21 years, her 20 years... .
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2017, 01:21:38 PM »

I was with mine for 4 years. After 7 months of heaven, the trouble began to manifest itself as some anger problems. At first I thought she had anger management problems... It started as impatient reactions to things. She was very impatient with daily tasks, her responsibilities, and me... Then the mood swings started...

After 9 months, the random outbursts of anger began turning into arguments that were blown out of proportion and escalated. This led to a few breakups.

It continued like this for the next few years. Sometimes there were periods of at least a few months where barely anything happened that were pretty good times.
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2017, 02:00:49 PM »

At the time it was kind of different. Our relationship started out long distance. So I attributed the strange 6 hour phone calls and hundreds of emails everyday to the distance.
The more flags that appeared I will still able to dismiss them.
Then after we moved in together the problems were attributed to health conditions, or being unemployed or going to school.
Aspergers diagnosis which I think now was BS I think her diagnosis was worse.
There was always an excuse for her behavior.

It wasn't until it was all over the BPD came up for me.
Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that this was her problem all along.
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2017, 02:13:44 PM »

Mine was good for the first 4 months.

Then I got emotional one day, and she broke up with me.  It always seemed like everytime I had a break down she left me.

I wonder if she thought that was a sign of abandonment.  She told me she left people before they could leave her.  It was only fair to her I guess.

I got back together with her the same day she broke up with me then we were good again for another 3 months.  I maybe accused her of not loving me because she would always put me in lose lose situations so she left me again.

Then off for a couple months and back on as friends with benefits.  Then I had another breakdown and she left a few days after that.
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2017, 02:24:06 PM »



Then I got emotional one day, and she broke up with me.  It always seemed like everytime I had a break down she left me.



I will add my ex was never there for me either. I could not have an off or down day.
Had to be up and on all the time for her. Completely rock solid stable.
It became a way of life. burring my own feelings and being there for her.
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2017, 02:33:35 PM »

Opposit for me.

I would always say it too much.  Then she would never say it back after a while. I think she became annoyed by that.

We started saying it after the first month.
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