I think I am dealing with a sociopath

[Notwendy]

I know we are cautioned here to not make this "diagnosis" and I certainly am not qualified to do this. So this is speculation. It's something I have been wondering about. Not all sociopaths have criminal behavior and my BPD mother also doesn't do that but she lies on purpose, does hurtful things on purpose, and at times seems to actually enjoy doing these things. She has no empathy and her demeanor is cold. She feigns empathy when she thinks it is needed but it's transparently fake.

Much of what she says to me when she calls me is a lie. If she's being nice, it's overdone, and feels manipulative.

She's not naive about money. A while back, she moved rooms and I had some of her records mailed to me for safe keeping. They had bank information and things like that that I didn't want to get lost in the move. Looking at them, I could see that after Dad passed, she accessed all bank accounts and had them put in her name. She has a friend who is a legal assistant and had the friend help her with this. She later liquidated the house- taking a home equity loan 2 years before we found out "accidentally" (or maybe not accidentally).

She put my sibling as a beneficiary to one account, told us about it, then drained it and told us she did that.

She wrote a huge check to one of her helpers and then told me about it.

We didn't know anything about her money, so she could have done all of this and not told us, but she did. Which means she must have wanted us to know that she did it.

After Dad passed, BPD mother was angry at me and was deliberately hurtful. Any one who knew me would know that some of my father's possessions were sentimental to me and these were the exact things she chose to not let me have. Some, even giving them away to other people.

I was devasatated at the time.  I had to detach and when she brought it up I didn't react.

Then, she wrote me out of her papers but sent me to the lawyers to sign something and I saw them and she acted like she forgot.

Then later, she changed her papers again, and put me in them again. I was indifferent. I never expected she'd give me anything.

She has financially decimated herself- drained everything, except for her montly check which covers her main needs thankfully. I told her long before she did this that I wouldn't accept an inheritance so if this was her motive - don't do this to herself. She doesn't have to. Interestingly when I told her I won't accept anything, her reply was odd. She said "thank you".

She's gone past zero- created a financial mess. I have tried to get her basic bills paid from her account ( I can access it). Since she still wants to be in control, at one point, I left it to her but she neglected important bills and they piled up.

There's no talking to her about this. Recently, she even said to me that she "doesn't spend a single penny on herself".  How can she even think anyone would believe this?

She also has issues with her caregivers. She has the same story about them- only the name changes. "_(name) did the most terrible thing to me and it was just awful and then it's the same terrible thing. She's demanding and verbally abusive to them. Most don't stay with her long.

I think the only reason she's still there in the assisted living is because they have a lot of vacancies. I think they need the income. If they had people wanting to move in, I think they'd have asked her to leave.

She's been angry at me for not moving her closer to me and for not forcing my kids to have a relationship with her. One of mine will speak to her on the phone. Another won't speak to her at all, doesn't want to. The kids are adults- they make their own decisions.

I mentioned this to one of her family members- is her motive to be vindictive? This family member doesn't think so, she thinks my mother is just impulsive and self centered. However, I think differently and this is one reason I consulted a lawyer for advice. I won't sign anything for her. I remind people that she is responsible for her own expenses.

Her typical response to when something doesn't go her way is to cause a scene. A typical response is to destroy property. I have seen her trash the house, ruin things we like. She disposed of some of my father's possessions - on purpose. She'd call me up and threaten to ruin something of mine if I didn't do something she wanted. I do wonder- is destroying every bit of financial property a variation of this? She's too savvy for this to be unintentional.

[zachira]

Your ongoing descriptions of your mother do suggest that she might be a sociopath. If you think so, you are likely right as you are the person who knows her best. People often feel that a person has to be found guilty in a court of law before they can feel comfortable calling the person a sociopath. The hard reality is there are many sociopaths out there who never face the most serious consequences for their terrible behaviors. Instead it is the people that the sociopaths take advantage of who are the ones who suffer the gravest consequences. Sociopaths are very devious in hiding who they really are, except to the people that they are closest to. Would it change your relationship with you mother or help you any ways to know that your mother is sociopath?

[Methuen]

You've summed up a lot there.

She's too savvy for this to be unintentional.

Sigh.  It's remarkable that despite all the emotional pain and upheavel we experience because of their disorder, we still choose any level of involvement with them.  I think that's a testament to our caring and kindness, and human-ness.  What you have described is a LOT.  

However caring and kind we are, we are not robots without emotion or need to also take care of ourselves.  I think that at some point, it is ok if we reach the "outside limit" of how much contact we can tolerate.  It is not a reflection of us, but rather a reflection of the other person.  That is just a fact outside our control.

Your SLATE story is such a reminder.

As is the bridge metaphor.

She might be a sociopath.  Or an integrated chaos of a whole bunch of other things.  At some point it doesn't really matter any more, because eventually we just have to get to the point of "acceptance", which I've learned is a much bigger concept than it seems at face value.  Acceptance must include looking after our own needs of safety, security, and peace, whatever that looks like.  

Sometimes when I put things down on paper like this, there is some level of catharthis or relief afterwards. It's hard to describe.  It's not really relief, or a sense that anything is better, because there is no effective "change" that comes with it.  I think what I'm trying to say is that just acknowledging the truth can be helpful - therapeutic maybe?  

Here for you NW.  All in.  Maybe today is a day for a long hot epsom salt bath?  

[Notwendy]

Zachira- I don't think it would change much if I knew for certain but - I have seen her behavior and know that I need to stay aware of it.

In the grand "Karma" sense- I don't wish to cause her harm but I also feel I need to protect myself because she doesn't seem to have a concern about if she is being hurtful to others- whether it's intentional or not.

Methuen- Epson salt baths are the best- yes to that!

It's been a series of issues that I got involved in due to my POA and health care staff wanting me to be involved too as they doubted her competency. These have been time consuming, conference calls with her care team, social work, and then, she changes the narrative. The attempt to obtain nursing home care- and she anounces that "her family is trying to dump her" and her telling the Hospice staff to not speak to me.

I haven't spoken to her new nurses. I don't even feel like I want to contact them. They don't call me either but they have my number if they want to. To get involved becomes Karpman triangle dynamics. I don't see the point in getting into that.

[zachira]

Feeling hurt about being treated badly by a disordered person is a healthier response then blaming ourselves for how we are being treated. Naturally it hurts a great deal to be the primary target of the overwhelming feelings of a mother when you are her daughter and have done everything possible to help your mother. Is it getting easier in any ways to deal with your mother's behaviors or has nothing really changed?

My responses to my large extended family changed a great deal over time once I came to understand that I was chosen at birth to be a scapegoat and that my disordered family members have very limited capacities to feel empathy. The family environment is one of intense competition in which many members want to be part of the winners circle of golden children. I find myself feeling hurt for short periods of time by how they abuse other people (not just me), yet able to move on so much more quickly after the latest round of abuse of whomever happens to be the target in the moment.

[Tangled mangled]

NW,
Over 6 months ago I read a book titled “ My mother, the psychopath “. It was very triggering for me and brought up so many emotions and hurtful memories of things my mother did. I saw so much of my mother in the author’s mum and it the similarities between them was just mind blowing. My mother was a teacher and would treat other peoples children like gold while treating us - especially me her then only daughter like dirt beneath her shoes. I was treated like a maid in my own home and many times when I complained I was told to go away and leave the family alone, stop causing problems.

One particular event when I was 5 or 6 years old, we lived in a small university community and she was a teachers assistant at my elementary school and our home was just across the street from school. I use to follow her a lot like children do. Once I followed her home during school break and she must have known that I was with her. She finished what she was doing and locked me in the house and returned to school.

The back door through the kitchen was only locked by a bolt so I could have let myself out if knew how to. I cried for what must have been hours, shouting in distress that the next door neighbour came to the our kitchen window to check on what was going on. I told her I couldn’t open the bolt. The lady must have sent the message across to my mum that I was locked in the house but she didn’t return immediately to get me. I must have cried myself to sleep because I have very little memory of the joy of being released from appeared to be a prison to my young brain.
The running joke from this event was that I wasn’t clever enough to open a door bolt and following this event I had to learn to open a bolt.

There are far worse events that happened in my childhood and recently I have been trying to piece together several other hurtful memories of being locked inside the home. Yes my mother was under a lot of stress. She might be self centred and impulsive but I believe she is atleast a secondary psychopath- pwBPD are factor 2 psychopaths- their psychopathy is easily observed when under stress.
Your mother’s behaviour is very similar to my ex husbands behaviour- the fake empathy, care and concern but very cold.
My mother showed complete lack empathy and she didn’t hide it- she will see adverts of malnourished children or people suffering and feel nothing towards them. Eg once I remarked that a child in an advert for malnourished/ disabled children was so beautiful and she aggressively shunned me for saying that.
So your assessment of your mother is not wrong at all. My hope for you and other members here who are deeply afflicted by the hurtful behaviour of your mothers is that you will find ways to release yourselves from the bandage/ burden of care.

[Tangled mangled]

*bondage*

[Notwendy]

I agree- it feels hurtful and it did- but it doesn't anymore. I don't care what she says or thinks of me. I did think- since in our family unit I am the scapegoat child- that is was at me, but now I see- other people are scapegoats too. She says things about people that aren't true and it isn't only with me.

Her behavior has shed some light on the events around the time of my father's passing that I had thought were maybe because of something I did or didn't do but I see now that the drama around trying to help him is similar- and it would only lead to the same result. In an odd way, I have gained perspective on the events then. I wondered if I could have done things differently but I see now that it would not have made a difference.

It felt hurtful to be estranged from my mother's FOO at the time but they have now seen her behavior and have reconciled.

Like you, I have felt hurt at times because we don't expect this from family. I think it's been most difficult to think about this with regards to my father.

With her now, it's more like feeling repulsed by her behavior. There's a certain shock at seeing how destructive she's been with her resources, her relationships. I don't feel hurt.

[Notwendy]

Tangled Mangled- I have to get that book. I may find more similarities. That is horrible what your mother did to you. We have less of these stories because, we had child care. This was not the norm at the time. Most women didn't work outside the home and my mother didn't either. But she also didn't do the child care.

As a child, I resented this. I wanted a mommy like the other mommys, but we had nannies. Now, I am grateful that someone took care of us. I don't really have memories of doing things with my mother. I do with my father. But she wasn't involved much with us. Now, I think this was good. She had no need to lock me in the house and go back to work because there was somebody there.

I do recall if my mother was angry at us she'd lock herself in her room. We kids would sit outside the door crying for her and she'd stay in there. Also if we were late for something and she was getting ready and we said anything to her about being late, she'd add 15 minutes more to the wait for each interruption.

I haven't seen her show empathy and even remember her not showing it. I recall being at a friend's house as a teen. My friend was dating someone her parents didn't like and they were upset about it and arguing with her. I agreed with them. He was a creep. When I came home, I tried to relate this situation to my parents. The look on their faces was just confused and blank. They couldn't relate to why I was upset at the situation. They looked at me like I was from another planet. I think my father did have empathy but he probably didn't feel he could speak up. I just recall this memory as it felt so disconnected.

[zachira]

More and more, I feel repulsed by the terrible behaviors of my disordered family members and people who behave like them. Feeling repulsed is protective and allows us to set boundaries with disordered people that we might not likely have if not for our bad experiences with our disordered family members.
You are setting some really healthy boundaries with your mother. You are lucky she is in assisted living.

[Notwendy]

You are setting some really healthy boundaries with your mother. You are lucky she is in assisted living.

I do feel fortunate she is in one. The events surrounding my father's passing made it clear to me that I would not be able to manage any other arrangement with her. It was at this time that I sought out therapy and 12 steps to learn to cope and also learn more about boundaries.

BPD mother didn't want to be in assisted living but her own behavior led to it. If she didn't move, the bank would have repossesed her house at some point. While assisted living has helped, and is a better situation for her than being in her own home, it's also been a failed attempt to find a situation that suits her emotional needs.

It was around the time of my father's passing that I began to wonder about sociopathy. I knew my mother could be intentionally hurtful when angry. I was familiar with her BPD behaviors and lack of empathy. However, when she's being hurtful- she goes too far. I can understand that people do and say things in anger sometimes, but most people have an internal brake on this- they don't want to be hurtful, but she doesn't seem to have this brake. Also, if someone says or does something they later regret, they have remorse. I haven't seen my mother be remorseful.

It's all a spectrum and none of us here are qualified to say for certain. I also don't think there'd ever be a professional diagnosis of ASPD for my mother. She knows how to pull it together if she wants to. The PD's also overlap and she has a lot of the NPD traits too but she doesn't have the functional capacity of the classic NPD. It's her BPD traits that impact her the most. Historically, females like her were called BPD and males NPD and cultural roles were more rigid. I wonder, if in time, as cultural roles have changed, if all the PD's will be considered on one spectrum.

A label won't be helpful to her at this point. It's more for my own understanding, to try to make sense of the behaviors- if that is possible.

[zachira]

What has helped me the most to understand the behaviors of disordered people who have little/no capacity for empathy is to look at what makes a person whole. A person with a healthy sense of self has self compassion, empathy for others, is mainly the same person no matter who they are with, and relationships are based on connecting with other people. Extremely disordered people have split personalities, and behave with people depending on what they want to obtain from them in the moment. (Relationships are transactional.) All of this exists on a spectrum.

Among my disordered family members, the key skill missing seems to be the ability to mirror the emotions of their own children. If a child is not seen by close family members, then that child may never develop a healthy sense of self. Instead the child may spend his/her life in the roles assigned to them by their family of origin which can be everything from scapegoat to golden child.

I do think there are people who are born sociopaths. It is interesting that orthopedic surgeons and murders who cut up the bodies of their victims have similar psychological profiles.

[Notwendy]

To not be "seen" is an interesting observation. Although my mothers FOO isn't as disordered, I sometimes don't feel they "hear" me when I speak to them.  With my mother, I think she sees her emotional projections on people.

I think we all have certain tendencies. I think it takes a certain personality to be able to cut up bodies. However, there must be more to it- as one person may become a murderer, while someone else is saving lives as a surgeon. I still believe humans can choose either good or evil, but where in the spectrum of choices we are might be different. Not all sociopaths are criminals but still may do some hurtful things, and so they too are making choices.

[314rabbit]

This thread is remarkable, thank you to all who have shared here.

My mother and her mother both have some sort of personality disorder. I have long since stopped talking to them both for my own wellness, and have brought a level of peace to my life. It's divine comedy that I have chosen a spouse with BPD, but that's another topic entirely.

My grandmother has held cars, houses, and cash over my head as marionette strings. My mother allowed my late sisters car to rot in our field rather than allow me to drive it (she was executor of the will where it was left to me, and she chose to just never do the paperwork for it to be in my name. It was eventually parted out due to an extreme rodent infestation. I was 17 and newly licensed when my sister died, and it was her dying wish for me to have her car.)

My grandmother manipulated the family lawyer into putting the house I bought into my uncle's name (I'm still not sure how she pulled it off) who then proceeded to not pay the taxes for three years. All the while, I was paying the mortgage for a house I didn't own and wouldn't own until they deemed me "ready" to own the house on my own. I was 23 with a full time job, and I was fixing it up myself. I almost lost the building to the late taxes when they signed it over just as soon as the county started talking about the tax auction. I was blindsided by the bill, and my in-laws had to help save it.

When I bought my first car, rather than borrowing one from her with strings attached, you would have thought I shot my grandmother's dog. Not that she would care about that, since she took her healthy and young dogs to get put down when she was "tired of them." Likely still does.

I could go on and on, and so could probably a lot of us. I stopped talking to that side of the family when the taxes issue happened. I ended up taking my uncle to court (who is largely uninvolved in all of this, since it was my grandmother's scheming. He's just the one who was left holding the bag) and winning. The judge was like "How anyone could have thought to get away with this is beyond me." They thought they could get away with it because everyone in the family has decided to stay on the gravy train of free cars and housing instead of rightfully suing a family member.

I have to tell you, that I left behind my baby photos, pictures of my late sisters, family heirlooms that are rightfully mine, a large inheritance, free cars and housing, my dream farm, and guaranteed income for life. It just wasn't worth it. I haven't spoken to any of them since 2018, except to file the lawsuit against my uncle for the back taxes in 2021. I've been made whole now, and I plan to never engage again. The things, money, properties, and cars will come on their own time, with my own money and effort.

May this period of your life have only the necessary crises of human experience, and may you find it in yourself to say "That's none of my business anymore" when it's beyond normal.

[Notwendy]

Thank you Rabbit- your relatives may have been able to take property from you (in a horrible way) but they could not take your integrity, resilience, or spirit. In the grand scheme of things, you are the "wealthy" one.

It not unusual for people who grow up in these family situations to then have similarities in their own relationships. For a child, this is the only family connections they have. Who we are attracted to, and who is attracted to us is complex and also influenced by our FOO. It's largerly subconscious but we choose people we feel a familar "fit" with.

Sometimes these relationships are workable and some are not. Your awareness and insight will guide you to the best path for you.

[anon3232]

Your mother seems to be the "witch" in the waif/hermit/queen/witch classification: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61982.0 (caveat: We can't do diagnosis but this can be helpful for coping).

Unfortunately, she doesn't sound like the type you can really change for the better. You either endure it or go LC/NC. I hope you are financially well-off enough not to need her money. If not, you should still work towards not needing her money. Otherwise, she will hold your hostage.

It really sucks to have family afflicted with these PDs. I don't expect my pwBPD to be very reasonable. Set low expectations = less likely to be disappointed. And when they are angry, I treat them as clinically insane (like one of those mad people shouting in the streets) and disengage.

[Notwendy]

Thanks, Anon,

I've been financially on my own since after college (and partially on my own through college). It has been important to me to not ask my parents for money for the reasons you stated.

I am LC with her but also since she is an ederly widow, I am not comfortable with going NC with her.

[jaded7]

NotWendy,

Very interesting topic. I have myself wondered about sociopathy, which I understand to be a lack of empathy or remorse for behaviors. Or inability to understand the normal emotions of a person (guilt, hurt, etc.)

I have thought this about my ex, and things you write here (and others) remind me of those thoughts. She seemed to lack the ability to recognize, or even think about, the effects of her actions and words on me. She was so full of double standards- rules for me, but the very same rules and demands don't apply to her- that I found it astounding. I mean, so obvious and clear that I couldn't wrap my head around how she could deny things or demand things given what she said/did.

Her 'empathy' was over-the-top performative, especially when a situation arose where she could 'get out' of something, or it was obvious I had believed something she told me and it was (in retrospect a lie, or evasive or not the full truth). And it was rare, too. Even in the beginning. I had a sixth sense about it, but figured I just didn't understand her well. The only way I can describe it is it came out when she felt some kind of a release-valve had occurred, in the situations between us, that allowed her to continue on with a charade of being busy or having to do 'something'. Very hard to explain, but I'm a very sensitive person and I knew there was something weird going on in those occasions.

You are a very thoughtful person, and smart. thanks for sharing here.

[Notwendy]

Thank you Jaded. I am glad my posts help others. We are all learning from each other here.

I have seen the kind of "empathy" you describe and have the same reaction to it. It's a performative- when it suits her- type of behavior.

I just got the book "My Mother the Psychopath". I know I can't make a "diagnosis" from a book but it looked interesting. My first question is what is the difference- psychopath or sociopath so I looked that up and my best guess is that the sociopath description fits better. Still, I think all the PD's are spectrums with overlapping traits. A term or label can help us understand behavior but we can't formally say for certain.

The first chapter starts with how charming they are. That is my mother's superpower. It's amazed me how people are drawn to her.

[anon3232]

NotWendy, if you haven't done so, I highly recommend watching Dr. Ramini's videos in MedCircle on this topic of psychopath vs sociopath vs narcissists. She makes very clear distinction between the 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dv8zJiggBs

I really enjoy listening to her while I work since they are very educational and the way she speaks is very soothing. But of course, it sometimes can feel like she makes a living disparaging narcissists and some people call her out on that.

[Notwendy]

Thanks ! I will look at it. I think she's very informative!

[Notwendy]

Interesting video. The part about how psychopaths are born that way and have a different nervous system reactions is interesting and sociopaths "are made" usually do to some trauma. Psychopath behavior would begin in childhood.  I don't know what my BPD mother was like as a child or teen. I suspect there was some abuse due to her behavior but I have no proof or any idea who may have done that. If it happened, I don't think it was anyone in the immediate family.

I can't tell how she feels when she reacts.  I suspect she does have feelings that are difficult to manage due to her behavior. She also doesn't have criminal behavior or a history of delinquency. She does have that charming persona.

So there's no way to know for certain but the video is very interesting!

 

[Notwendy]

I have memories of my mother admitting to lying and not feeling any remorse over it. Once she lied to get to the front of a long line because she didn't want to wait. I asked her how she did this and she admitted she lied. It didn't seem to bother her. I've heard her say "I pulled the wool over their eyes!" as if she was proud of it.

She got Covid- fortunately a mild case. I was exposed to her and so was an elderly relative- which was concerning. Fortunately neither of us got it. BPD mother was telling me she had Covid and said "I hope you don't get it but I'm not going to worry about you, I can only worry about me".

She wasn't angry or dysregulating when she said this- this is her being herself. She doesn't care.

[anon3232]

It seems like your mother's also pretty narcissistic which is a common comorbidity with pwBPD. And again, she seems like a witch, which is the type that's likely the most difficult to redeem.

[anon3232]

https://behavioralhealth.typepad.com/markhams_behavioral_healt/2007/08/the-borderline-.html

[Notwendy]

Thanks for the article. It's been several years since I read that book. When I read it, I thought my mother changed between the personas, with her being mostly Queen and Witch. She will act as Waif- and that one is the hardest one for me to see- because I do feel sorry for her and when she's unhappy, it's difficult to see.

I hadn't thought about the examples in the book for some time. I think my mother has done all the examples in the article in some form. She didn't pull me out of school but she would with no notice, or apparent reason, make me come home from a friend's house, pull me out of a summer job one summer. Her rages included denigration, destroying or confiscating favorite property. Splitting, "blacklisting".

She sees people as being on her side or not her side. It's interesting that it's said the behavior is a mask for fear. We grew up being afraid of her. 

I think I differ from the description of the children. I didn't grow up unable to love, and it upsets me to see anyone suffer. I think it helped that there were other adults as caretakers and we spent time with my father's family.

[anon3232]

> She didn't pull me out of school but she would with no notice, or apparent reason, make me come home from a friend's house, pull me out of a summer job one summer. Her rages included denigration, destroying or confiscating favorite property.

That's horrible but unfortunately quite expected. I stopped gifting my pwBPD anything that she can destroy. She recently broke a mouse that I gave her because she threw a fit over something at work. Then she turned around and asked me for a new one because she broke it in a rage. I gave her the cheapest possible mouse at my disposal in response - The entitlement of these people are just unbelievable. She also destroy a dress gifted to her by a relative over another rage episode where she decided that relative is bad (no, she wasn't even part of the episode!). The relative doesn't know it but it's just disgusting.

> She sees people as being on her side or not her side. It's interesting that it's said the behavior is a mask for fear. We grew up being afraid of her. 

Black/white thinking is pretty classic. Mask of fear feels like a rhetorical device to me, since fear ultimately drives a lot of things people do (e.g. following rules, being nice, being careful, etc). What I tend to find is these people like to find themselves profoundly wronged and owed by the universe. And because they are such a victim, they get to lash out and feel satisfied. When your mom breaks your things, she also feels satisfied because she feels miserable and she wants you to be miserable as well just so it's fair to her.

[TelHill]

I wanted to point out another symptom of sociopathy is isolating someone to control and dominate them. My diagnosed BPD mother did this to me as a child where I was not allowed to have friends: go over to another little girls house to play, go to birthday parties, ride bikes together, or talk on the phone. This was more painful than the hitting and the insults. This is also known as coercive control.

My uBPD brother did the same to me when I left my marriage to a man who was a coercive controller through DV. I was not in my right mind. My brother gaslighted and manipulated me into providing free caregiving services to my parents. He had performed a lot of free services for my parents and wanted to be off the hook and still receive a sizeable inheritance. He outsourced the work.

He had known about the DV. My brother raised his fist towards me as if he was going to hit me and then laughed and sneered at me. There were other abusive instances. He’s taken or thrown away expensive property of mine.

Here’s a video of two young men who experienced coercive control by their bpd, malignant narcissist or sociopathic father.  The young men were forbidden to have friends. The father eventually murdered their mother and sister.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qreA6ue0hk8&pp=ygUNTHVrZSBoYXJ0IGJiYw%3D%3D

[Notwendy]

We weren't socially isolated. It seemed more compartmentalized. What went on at our house was a well kept secret. We didn't have friends over a lot, but we did have friends and also so did my parents. My BPD mother didn't like my father's family but we were able to go spend time with them.

My BPD mother's social persona is different- and in social situations, she can be quite charming and witty.

It helped that we kids went to school, and Dad went to work- so we had social contacts outside the house. We didn't have people over a lot- but I think that was more due to our concern they might see my mother in a dysregulated state. I was afraid my friends would judge me if they saw that.