Hello! Low Contact + Trying to Avoid charming/Stalking

[Depression = 72% of members]

 :caution:TW: mentions of self-harm, violent aggression, and stalking.

Hey everyone!

I (30F) am here because for many years I've strongly suspected my father has BPD/maybe NPD as well, but at least some very narcissistic traits. Mood swings, a sense of entitlement/grandiosity, straight up bullying and resenting his kids. My mother divorced him last year after 30 years of marriage, and that has caused him to come running to me and my sister for supply.

For context, during our childhood and pretty much up until we moved out, his attitude towards us could be summed up by: "Shut up", "I'm going to work till I'm dead because of you", calling me the R word, a slob, picking on me for my weight and my hair and even how long my fingernails were. He used to tell me obsessively that I smelled, even though I was very conscious of using deodorant even when I was young. He told me on my 11th birthday that he wanted to throw himself out the window when I was born. And many, many other things. He was just mean. He screamed a lot. I was convinced he hated me.

Well, lots has changed recently. A few years ago I moved out with my big girl job and I have an apartment and all that, and I try not to have much contact with him. My sister also recently moved out and got her own place. And my mom divorced him last year. With that, he is all alone and realizing he has bullied away the only people who were ever willing to put up with his BS. And so he feels abandoned, and he comes back.

He's been texting me every day now. "How was your day?" "Do you want to get together for dinner?" "Remember I love you, Sweetheart!" I'm sick of it. Whenever we are alone together, he talks negatively about my sister, mother, or my friends, and then talks about himself and his current pursuits like he is the greatest thing. And he still screams. The last time we were alone at his house, he screamed his head off at me because I told him I was tired of hearing him talk so poorly of my sister.

To make things worse, when he flies into a rage, he can get really scary. He owns guns, and he has threatened to hurt himself and other people before. He's never hit us but he has hit the family dog before and IMO that's just a step-up to hurting humans. He also has a serious stalker streak. He has tried to find out where my mom is now living, has talked about renting an apartment in the same complex as mine, has already infiltrated one of my social groups and is trying to figure out what social gatherings I'm going to.

I want to tell him to piss off. That I'm not interested in forgetting how he treated us for years and years just because he's lonely. However, the betrayal/abandonment fear is strong in him and I do think it's legitimate. And it triggers in him not only intense pain but rage, which is where the stalking/violent aggression comes from. He can go from "I love you Sweetheart" to "You're abandoning me just like your f***ing mother" REAL fast, and given some scary things he's said to my mother, I'm just...scared of pissing him off.

Any advice or even comfort/validation would be greatly appreciated. I feel like there's an anaconda tightening around my neck, and if I fight it, it'll snap my head right off.

Thank you <3

[greenwitchvibes]

 :caution:TW: mentions of self-harm, violent aggression, and stalking.

Hey everyone!

I (30F) am here because for many years I've strongly suspected my father has BPD/maybe NPD as well, but at least some very narcissistic traits. Mood swings, a sense of entitlement/grandiosity, straight up bullying and resenting his kids. My mother divorced him last year after 30 years of marriage, and that has caused him to come running to me and my sister for supply.

For context, during our childhood and pretty much up until we moved out, his attitude towards us could be summed up by: "Shut up", "I'm going to work till I'm dead because of you", calling me the R word, a slob, picking on me for my weight and my hair and even how long my fingernails were. He used to tell me obsessively that I smelled, even though I was very conscious of using deodorant even when I was young. He told me on my 11th birthday that he wanted to throw himself out the window when I was born. And many, many other things. He was just mean. He screamed a lot. I was convinced he hated me.

Well, lots has changed recently. A few years ago I moved out with my big girl job and I have an apartment and all that, and I try not to have much contact with him. My sister also recently moved out and got her own place. And my mom divorced him last year. With that, he is all alone and realizing he has bullied away the only people who were ever willing to put up with his BS. And so he feels abandoned, and he comes back.

He's been texting me every day now. "How was your day?" "Do you want to get together for dinner?" "Remember I love you, Sweetheart!" I'm sick of it. Whenever we are alone together, he talks negatively about my sister, mother, or my friends, and then talks about himself and his current pursuits like he is the greatest thing. And he still screams. The last time we were alone at his house, he screamed his head off at me because I told him I was tired of hearing him talk so poorly of my sister.

To make things worse, when he flies into a rage, he can get really scary. He owns guns, and he has threatened to hurt himself and other people before. He's never hit us but he has hit the family dog before and IMO that's just a step-up to hurting humans. He also has a serious stalker streak. He has tried to find out where my mom is now living, has talked about renting an apartment in the same complex as mine, has already infiltrated one of my social groups and is trying to figure out what social gatherings I'm going to.

I want to tell him to piss off. That I'm not interested in forgetting how he treated us for years and years just because he's lonely. However, the betrayal/abandonment fear is strong in him and I do think it's legitimate. And it triggers in him not only intense pain but rage, which is where the stalking/violent aggression comes from. He can go from "I love you Sweetheart" to "You're abandoning me just like your f***ing mother" REAL fast, and given some scary things he's said to my mother, I'm just...scared of pissing him off.

Any advice or even comfort/validation would be greatly appreciated. I feel like there's an anaconda tightening around my neck, and if I fight it, it'll snap my head right off.

Thank you <3

[Notwendy]

Congratulations on gaining independence from your parents. This is the best thing you can do for yourself.

Due to his mental issues, he won't likely see his part in why he's alone now. That is not your responsibility to worry about. You have done exactly what parents hope for their children- to become independent adults. Of course, caring parents also hope that their adult children still want to have a relationship with them but recognize it's also their choice to make too. That relationship has been formed for years before the child is independent.

For your father- to be abusive and mean for years, then suddenly turn on the charm "I'm your loving father" - No, people don't change that quickly. For him to truly change - he'd have to spend time in therapy working on himself- if that were possible and from my own experience with my BPD mother who also has narcissitic traits- I think the chances of that happening are low to zero.

My BPD mother also does the "charm" thing. I see it now as a manipulation and also- this is the best she can do with her emotional issues. This is what has worked for her to get her needs met- so rather than to judge her for this- I have to decide for myself how to respond. If it's a "no", then she may escalate and get angry- but that is her feelings, and we can not control someone else's feelings. She may also change her attempts- if being charming doesn't work- she may rage or act hurt- but all of these are her way of getting her needs met.

I think on your part, it would help to look at this as not being about you, but your father doing what he knows to do to get his needs met. He's focused on his needs, not yours. For you, I think you will need some boundaries- first of all safety. (and this includes emotional safety) If he's prone to violence, be careful.

One boundary is to not be alone with him. I have that one with my BPD mother as much as possible. She wouldn't hurt me physically but she's more likely to hold it together when there's someone else there and it feels safer to me when someone else is there too. Another is to not go to his house. If you still want to meet up- go out for coffee, or for lunch, this way you are not isolated in his house with him. He's less likely to cause a scene in public.

Another boundary is less communcation. If he's texting you frequently- saying you are not available while you are at work, turning your phone on do not disturb for him during some times.

I think you are correct to not directly confront him and also don't tell him about your boundaries- you do not have to tell him and I don't think you should. You are going to take some subtle actions to decrease contact without telling him directly. It's a form of low contact. Going completely NC suddenly may provoke an escalation. Also, when he starts over sharing on the phone- you can sublty cut the conversation shorter. "Dad, I understand, but I need to go, there's a meeting, an appointment, someone at the door".

Emotionally - it's going "grey rock". Do not say anything to him- just decrease the contact, shorter conversations, and keep your safety in mind first.

While you hope he doesn't cause himself harm, you can not control him. If he makes any threats to harm himself or anyone else- call 911 immediately and or the police if necessary.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I can totally understand where you're coming from.  I have an uNPD in my life, and he acts in much the same way as your dad--he can turn on the charm, but then he can turn on a dime and be vicious he's not getting what he wants.  He has violent episodes--he'll brandish around his weapons to intimidate.  He's a big guy, and he'll get right in your face to show who's boss.  Since he's very likely NPD, he has to be the center of attention at all times, even if it's at the expense of his own kids.  He is extremely demanding of others, and yet shows zero empathy, even for his own kids.  He's also entitled.  He thinks that rules apply to others, but because he's special, he's exempt from following them.  Rather, he constantly demands special treatment.  He's intelligent and can say any number of cruel and manipulative things.  He'll call his kids the meanest, dirtiest names in the dictionary.  And he'll blame his kids for his own poor choices.  Here's an example:  he blames his kids for not being able to go to Washington to work with Elon Musk in the DOGE project.  Yeah what a joke, he's been unemployed for six years--he couldn't handle working a full work day, let alone the intensive hours demanded by Musk, for zero pay.  He's so fully of baloney it's laughable (if you weren't crying).  Yeah, he's a mean dude.  He'll ground his kids for walking too loudly in the house.

Anyway, you've experienced a lifetime with with an NPD dad, do you have any legitimate reason to believe that he has changed for the better?  Even if you yearn to have a healthy relationship with him, you probably know in your heart that it won't happen.  He'll say all sorts of things to manipulate you.  I'd advise, disregard what he says, and pay attention to what he does.  The uNPD in my life loves to talk and spin all sorts of tales.  He'll say he's the best dad on the planet, but what evidence is there to show for it?  Words are cheap.  Look to the actions.  In the meantime, I guess I'd advise to delete the text messages from him if they are bothering you.  Treat them like spam.  I like Notwendy's suggestion--don't let yourself be alone with him.  If you must see him, make sure you are in a public place, or that there's a buffer/witness like another family member.  The uNPD in my life will "pull himself together" to appear respectable if other people are involved.

I'm so sorry you had to deal with this, and I understand the ongoing pain.  But it sounds like you really have your act together.  Plus, you're probably really good at detecting signs of disordered people in your life.  You're wiser because of that.

[CC43]

P.S.,

The uNPD dad also calls his kids the R word, on top of calling them idiots all the time.  For example, he'll subject them to "idiot tests," which involves asking his young kids to complete a chore that is inappropriate for a child to do, because he's too lazy or tired to do the chore himself.  If the child fails the "test," he or she feels horrible.  I've told the kids that they are NOT idiots--in fact they are clearly very intelligent, each in his or her own special way, and I explain with examples exactly why they are exceptionally smart.  What their dad is doing is projecting his own insecurity about feeling dumb and incompetent onto his kids.  You see, he struggles with many aspects of his life, from unemployment, to dependencies, to inability to function in very basic ways, and I'm pretty sure he's lost all his friends.  He's just projecting his own self doubt onto the very people that spend time with him--his own family.  Maybe if you see the insults as projections, you won't harbor as many doubts about yourself.

Just my two cents.

[Methuen]

Any advice or even comfort/validation would be greatly appreciated. I feel like there's an anaconda tightening around my neck, and if I fight it, it'll snap my head right off.

This is not a fair fight between you and the anaconda.  Making you feel like this is not ok. 

It was a few years ago now, but on one visit to my T, after hearing me talk, she told me she wanted me NOT to have any contact with my uBPD mom for 2 weeks, after which we could "revisit" this plan.  She said I needed that time to let my amygdala settle down.  I followed her advice, and then we extended the "break".  I don't actually recall how long I went without contact.  But your description of the anaconda  made me remember that.  It took a long time for my nervous system to settle down.  I was terrified of my mom, although my situation was different and my mom didn't own a gun, so I didn't have that to contend with.

Make yourself your focus.  Your only priority should be your own safety.  Physically and emotionally.  The fear you are feeling is real.  Nobody should have to live in that fear.

Being around someone threatening to hurt himself or others is distressing.  Also distressing that he threatens to move into your apartment building.  That is just so messed up.  If he threatens to hurt himself again, you could call 911.  Then there's a record. And he needs help.  Help that can only come from professionals.

It sounds like you have a good grasp of the issues - including the fear of abandonment since the nest is now empty, everyone is getting on with their life without him, and he's lost his "supply".

  like the strategies that have been suggested.  Grey rock will deny him supply.  He needs his supply so if you grey rock consistently, he will have to go elsewhere to get that supply.  If you tell him to piss off- he's getting a rise out of you which gives him attention - and supply.  Better to leave the emotion out of it and just grey rock.  Minimal contact.  He's a toxic person, so if you're going to take care of yourself and enjoy your independence and autonomy and big girl job and life, it's better to steer clear of toxic people, or at least reduce contact. 

As someone else stated, don't tell him what you're doing.  That would just lead to a confrontation which gives him supply.  Don't.  Instead, just quietly and calmly let your actions do the talking. 

What are your thoughts about blocking him?  Or not answering?  Or not reading his messages?  Is this something that makes sense in your situation?  Would less contact loosen the anaconda?  Have you had a T in the past, or do you see one currently?  Lots of us here do, and having the local support as well as the online support is helpful.
 

[Resiliant]

Grey rock will deny him supply.  He needs his supply so if you grey rock consistently, he will have to go elsewhere to get that supply.  If you tell him to piss off- he's getting a rise out of you which gives him attention - and supply. 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I am trying to lift myself out of a FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and this has been the most helpful thing so far.  We were doing fairly well, I haven't posted here since 2021.  I should have come back sooner.