Boundaries and scripts — help for this worn-out mom

[SoVeryConfused]

I have a DD 24 years old. Had a number of concussions several years ago, and things have been off since. Was an easy child, but went thru a lot with a sick older sibling.

Many deregulation traits. Seemingly getting worse.. I am her favorite person and get the brunt of her anger. She called me 70 times on Sunday.

We are snowbirds, which has made her very angry that I’m not here 365 days. She now moved two hours away, but seems to be very lonely and always asking me to drive down to take her to the ER for a variety of things or to bring her food. The testing is continual. Yet she’ll cancel me when the plan is to visit.

My boundaries are poor. I often get in the car multiple times in a day to do the drive because I don’t want her to feel I don’t care, but when she realizes that I passed the test, she tells me not to come, saying that I trigger her. Then to come. Etc. I feel nuts.

The last two days she has cursed me the worst that she ever has. I admit to not being skillful in the Conversations and getting angry too and wish washy.

My H gets upset- he said I teach her how to treat me by accepting this. It’s true to a degree;  I worry greatly about her. I never want her to think I don’t love her.

Today it’s a blizzard and I’m sick but she called saying she has a spinal cord injury and wants me to drive her to the ER. If I don’t, she has every excuse why she can’t get herself there. And is furious I’m not coming.

I’ve stopped returning calls or texts. I am greatly struggling with boundaries and this is really wearing on my mental health. And I am generally a very happy person.

There’s more I could say, but suffice to say, I would very much welcome any scripting or boundary suggestions you have. Validating and trying to use reflective listening makes her more mad. She’s a smartie!

I’m losing myself in guilt and questioning my own perceptions of my parenting and her childhood. I’m so sad for her too. Thanks for reading.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mars]

You are dealing with an impossible situation as a parent. I relate 100% to being the person who is the favourite and taking the brunt of all of the anger. I am too working on my scripting for boundary setting so I’m sorry but I don’t yet have the magic script. I struggle constantly with trying to validate feelings when awful, hurtful things are coming out of my daughter’s mouth.

The book Codependent No More by Melody Beattie was recently recommended to me by my counsellor. I am only part way through it but it has been eye opening for me so far to see how some of the things that I have done out of love have fed into my daughters behaviours. There is no blame. We do for our kids what we think is right based on what we know - but honestly reading some of this is helping me to put boundaries in place because I am learning more about how I can stop validating some of the scary behaviours. I’m learning about how I can’t control or be responsible for my adult daughter’s behaviour and I can only be responsible for what I do. This is terrifying to me because all I want to do is fix it all and make it all better.

Just thought I would share some of what is helping me take baby steps…

[SoVeryConfused]

We had a crisis last night that ended up With the police. First time for everything!

I basically kept my mouth shut after and just listened even when I was hearing things that I knew were not accurate.

I didn’t even validate other than to say things like: that must be really hard or that must hurt. It was very hard to see how broken my loved one is.

We are talking today until the next time I can’t meet a demand - I can’t fix her life and she’s terribly unhappy. But she wants me to… she expects me to drop everything - or else I don’t care.

How does one walk that tightrope? Gosh. It’s so so tiring.

[Sancho]

Hi Soveryconfused
So often I think 'the curse of the mobile phone'. In one way it is amazing  - but when on the BPD journey it can be a tyrant.

I remember the 'good old days' when if you left the house no one would expect you to answer a phone - bliss!

I found myself in heightened alert whenever the phone rang - ready for the emergency that I was supposed to 'fix' IMMEDIATELY.

It took me a long, long time to realise that DD's experience of intense emotion or fear was real for her, but the intensity could pass if I allowed her some time to de-escalate,

I started answering - but not straight away. I would deliberately leave my phone inside if I was going outside - then just told the truth when I was in touch and being abused. I gradually extended the time it took me to answer.

If there was no message left, I would leave it quite a long time. If there was a message left I would wait a while, then return the call.

Of course any change from not being immediately available brings huge emotional abuse - but it is working!

I don't see this as my DD putting it all on. I know she has intense emotions that she can't handle and needs me to immediately 'fix it'. But she can't maintain that intensity and that is what I am giving her the time and space to do.

I can understand your DD picks up on when you are validating etc. I am getting better at just stating that I am not able to help.

Is there any way you can start to get some sort of 'routine' going? Just thinking off the top of my head now! If DD is ringing you all the time, perhaps start to ring her at a given time - whatever suits you - but on a regular basis. Same with a visit - is it possible to visit her at some point, but in a way that could be regular?

It is hard to establish new patterns, but I wonder if you start - in a slow way -not responding immediately while at the same time gradually establishing that there are times set aside when you will be available to her?

This is a point I am at now. I retired a year ago to try to be more available to DD and GD. It has been chaos. Now I am hoping to find some work so that I won't be available at certain times. Fingers crossed I can begin to bring some sort of order out of the chaos that is my life at the moment.

Your situation is so distressing. Please try to care for yourself as best you can.

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you for this thoughtful answer. I like the idea of leaving the phone behind a bit but finding a way to be in more regular contact too.

I have to work on managing my own emotional distress also over the abusive words and threats. It’s very hard. Thank you for your suggestions.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I can understand how worried you must feel all the time to witness such distress and dysfunction in your adult daughter.  No parent wants to see their kid suffer, and at the same time, a parent's happiness can be wrapped up in the kid's happiness.

It sounds to me like you are a worrier AND a fixer.  That's a tough combination with a loved one with BPD.  I have an adult stepdaughter with BPD, and I think my husband is more of a fixer than a worrier.  For a long time, he was a "snowplow" parent, trying to remove any obstacle in his children's path.  However, for the child with BPD, no amount of snowplowing would spare her from distress.  Moreover, she seemed to create her own special internal distress, with negative, self-sabotaging thoughts and behaviors.

I think that gradually my husband had to transition from a "fixer" to an "adviser," as many parents do when their kids transition to adulthood.  Moreover, we've had to make a distinction between allowing the BPD daughter to vent her feelings, vs. expressing true distress that she couldn't possibly handle on her own.  You see, my stepdaughter complains frequently about loneliness, fatigue, her schedule, how toxic all the people in her life are, how she feels like a failure, how nothing goes her way, etc.  It's almost like she's worn a rut in her brain by ruminating about negative things, which distract her from the tasks of the day.  She is a consummate procrastinator and worrier, and she's often at risk at derailing her life because of that.  But I think, sometimes she needs to VENT.  She doesn't want a solution; she wants to process her negative feelings and get them out of her.  Though she might want help, the time of parental over-functioning for her and rescuing her from every little situation has come to an end.  She's too old to need so much help with stuff a teenager should be able to handle.  So now the parental role has shifted, to one of listening, cheerleading, and maybe asking, What do you think would help in this situation?  And sometimes she needs to hear, work and school are tough, aches and pains are normal, occasional trouble sleeping is normal, worrying about money is normal, worrying about the future is normal, having to slog through a long work day is normal!  Being an adult comes with all sorts of tasks and responsibilities that we don't really want to deal with, but we deal with them because we are responsible adults.  Since my adult stepdaughter has had therapy and medications, learning how to deal with daily adult-level stress is a major concern.  In the face of stress, she tends to dredge up ancient grievances and tales of victimhood.  Historically, my husband would rescue her, but now, he listens, and then tries to steer her around and get her to focus on the present.  He's determined to get her on a path towards partial independence, and that requires her to deal with stress and disappointments, even if they cause some distress or struggles.

I really like Sancho's advice about slow-walking.  I think you don't need to jump in and help your daughter all the time.  If she's really in distress, she can always call 911, and maybe that way she gets the professional medical or psychological support she needs.  Now, I'm not saying that you should abandon her--she's surely very sensitive to that--but maybe you're just not as available as you used to be, because, after all, she's an adult now, and you are busy living a full and healthy life.  Sometimes I think she needs more time to process feelings and learn how to solve problems on her own.  Sitting around crying or raging does very little to solve problems, unless a parent jumps to the rescue.  If that's the case, then her incentive is to cry and rage, and she has little incentive to change.

Sometimes I look at the crying/whining/raging as adult tantrums.  What works best for an adult tantrum?  An adult time out.  She needs time and space to sort through her issues, alone at first.  That way she might learn some emotional resilience.  I'd say, you need to give her more time and space, lest she hijack your life forever.

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you for this sharing such an in-depth response.

You have nailed me. I am a worrier AND a fixer. I have terrible boundaries although I'm trying so hard. She goes from really nice normal conversations to swearing at me and telling me I'm a bad mom, and she's going to kill herself. Then calls me back 50-70 times. If I don't answer, she calls my husband, my other daughter, etc. 

It sounds like, from the responses, that I am over-functioning as a parent to her detriment and mine. That I need to change my reaction even if it's hard. And even if she's threatening to do A, B and C. It's difficult because I love her, and I do know she's miserable. I find it hard to be compassionate and somewhat accessible, yet not give in to her demands.

Thank you so much for your advice.

[Pook075]

How does one walk that tightrope? Gosh. It’s so so tiring.

In short, you get off the tightrope completely and let your daughter live her life.  She is responsible for herself, while you are responsible for you.  Her path towards healing is taking her mental health seriously, and only she can decide to take those steps to improve her life.

Here's the thing though, every time you bail her out, she's one step further away from those self-realizations.  As long as she can blame you and abuse you without consequence, then it's very easy to say/think that you're the entire problem. 

Why?  Because you're proving it every day- she calls and you come running.  By doing so, you're validating the invalid within her mind and encouraging even more bad behavior in the future.  In essence, you're doing this to yourself.

Your daughter is sick and as parents, we want to swoop in and save the day.  But with BPD, that's causing more harm than good because it's teaching that the BPD's in our life don't have to be accountable for their actions.

So what to do?  Here are a few places to start:

1) If she calls with demands, insults, or unrealistic expectations, tell her that you're hanging up and will call her later.  Do this every time so it's a very obvious, predictable pattern. 

2) If she has a sudden medical emergency (which is a very common claim for BPDs, by the way), then offer to dial 9-1-1 for her so she can get immediate help.  If she refuses, then she's making a choice...and you want her to make choices on her own.  Remember, you are responsible for you, she's responsible for her.  You must stop running to her every time she "cries wolf", it only guarantees that she's do it more often.

3) Likewise, if she wants you there more often, tell her to move back into your area.  Remind her of her choice to be two hours away- her choice, her consequences.  If she wants to spend time together, she should be driving to you at least half the time.  Once she begins to be abusive in person though, it's time for you to leave.  Abuse is a choice- her choice, her consequences. You must protect your own mental health first and foremost.

4) She'll have many excuses why 1, 2, and 3 won't work...you'll probably have several excuses as well.  Each of those things are enabling her to abuse you though, and you are making the choice to allow her.  That's why I keep saying that you are responsible for you, she's responsible for her.  Make that clear distinction and stop accepting abuse that only makes her illness worse over time.  Enabling is the worst possible thing for a BPD young adult.

My daughter had the same story and by 22, we had to go no contact for awhile.  Her life got very rough but at the same time, she had to realize that there was a problem within her that was damaging relationships to those she was closest with.  At 26, she's a completely different person and she doesn't abuse anyone.  There's definitely still moments, but they pass and things get back to normal pretty quickly.

For your kid to get there, you have to stop the cycle of entitlement and abuse.  She has to hit her own rock bottom and choose to overcome this.  It's incredibly hard as a parent but the alternative ruins many lives (yours, your spouse, your kids, etc) instead of just hers.  She must change and ultimately grow up...but you're a huge part of that right now.

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you.
I really appreciate how direct this is and real. I am going to print this out as a reminder. I’m so grateful for other parents who understand.

[SoVeryConfused]

Btw… your comment about my current approach ruining more lives around me was very eye opening. I’m dragging down others into this with me. That has really struck me tonight. Thank you again.

[Pook075]

Thank you.
I really appreciate how direct this is and real. I am going to print this out as a reminder. I’m so grateful for other parents who understand.

My heart goes out to you, and I know that I asked you to do the hardest possible thing.  But I think we all know deep down that it's the correct choice, to teach right from wrong regardless of the personal consequences.

Unfortunately, it will get worse before it gets better.  Your daughter may cut you off for a time period, or lash out even more.  It's horrible.  But by removing yourself from the equation and her problems remaining, it's the best chance she has in life to realize that the problem isn't you and her excuses are hollow.

There is hope though and you can still be a loving, caring parent...simply one with boundaries that puts your feelings first. 

You still show her love and compassion when she's mean, you simply do so while saying, "Let's talk later when we're both calm."  You may have never been un-calm to begin with, but you have to deliver your messages without blame.  Blame leads to arguments and disordered thinking...it achieves nothing.  So you take the compassionate route- "We're both struggling right now and I don't want to argue.  I'll call you back in a few hours." 

Or even more direct, "I'm struggling right now and feeling overwhelmed, let me call you later today."

Make it about "you" or "us", but never about her mistakes directly.  Make sense?

Likewise, you must learn to separate her words and her feelings.  If she feels sad or hurt or broken, you can validate that- "I'm so sorry you're going through this, I love you so much and want to help.  I hate when I feel that way." 

But at the same time, you'll see those emotions at times with some harsh comments attached- "You're a horrible mom and you're never there for me when I need you."  The words are terrible, but they're coming from the emotions of being sad and alone.  If you focus on the words, then it's the blame-game where nobody wins.  You're arguing the invalid just because someone in the conversation is mentally ill.

Yet if you ignore the words and focus on the emotions underneath it all, then you're hitting the root of the problem immediately.  We know what to do when someone is sad, angry, scared, etc...that we can face directly to get past the moment of insecurity.

All of this is a learned behavior, it's not intuitive to show compassion to someone abusing us.  But as we learn to do it more efficiently, those blow-out sessions turn from three day arguments to ten second uncomfortable  moments.  So you lead with love and compassion, and if that fails then you put up a boundary (I'll call you later or I'll see you tomorrow).

More than anything else, BPDs want to be understood.  They're loving, caring, and passionate when things are good, yet a true terror when they feel unloved or at risk of being abandoned.  So we show that love and always reinforce that we're not going anywhere...we're just stepping away for a bit because of your current choice (to be abusing, to be manipulative, etc). 

That doesn't mean we don't love you though...we're just responsible for ourselves first.  If my mental health is poor, then I can't help you as effectively.  So I have to choose me first when you make these kinds of decisions.

I hope that helps!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[SoVeryConfused]

Wow, there is a lot to chew on here. THANK YOU.
I am starting to put these suggestions into action.

Final question…after validating and asking my D what might help or I wish I could help when she calls, her response is always - that’s it? That’s all you have to say? You can help but YOU won’t, referencing that I haven’t hopped on a plane back to our hometown.

I never know what to say to that. Her only goal is to get me back there, and nothing else will suffice.

How would you respond?  I do feel guilty that I am not going. Thanks!

[CC43]

Hi there,

I think you have to say No. You can’t see her right now. If she flips out, then you leave the conversation; say something like, this is stressing me out, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Look, even my widowed mother who doesn’t have BPD can be unrealistic about her demands on my time. A typical scenario is when she wants me to drive six hours total to complete a task that she thinks is urgent, and she doesn’t want anyone else to do it but me. And she wants me to do it NOW. She will fret until I complete the task. I learned that I have to say NO. I have a right to say NO. My life is just as important as everyone else’s. You see, I think she thinks my life doesn’t really matter, at least in comparison to her problem du jour. It doesn’t matter if I am inconvenienced or have to cancel plans. And you know what?  When I say NO, she finds another solution, an even better one in fact. I’m not saying that I am a jerk all the time, I help my mom more than any of my siblings. But she has to hear NO sometimes. If I don’t make healthy boundaries for myself, she’ll walk all over me, making her priorities my only concern, and I will resent her for that. I had to learn to say, No, I just can’t do that, not today nor any time this week, I have plans. You need to find someone else. Why don’t you call X?  You see, it’s easier for her to ask me to solve all her problems. I am always the first person she calls. I solve the problems I’m willing and able to. But I can’t possibly solve all of them. So I have to say No. I’m nice about it.  And sometimes I have to say, Mom, you solved this problem multiple times yourself, don’t you remember?  You don’t need me to do that for you. I can help you one last time, but I need you to write down the steps, because I expect you to do this yourself next time, OK?  We both know you can do it, so please write this down. Put it in that notebook I gave you, the instruction book.

[Pook075]

Wow, there is a lot to chew on here. THANK YOU.
I am starting to put these suggestions into action.

Final question…after validating and asking my D what might help or I wish I could help when she calls, her response is always - that’s it? That’s all you have to say? You can help but YOU won’t, referencing that I haven’t hopped on a plane back to our hometown.

I never know what to say to that. Her only goal is to get me back there, and nothing else will suffice.

How would you respond?  I do feel guilty that I am not going. Thanks!

I need a little more context- what specific "help" is she asking for in that situation?

If it's an ear to listen, then you can help all she wants...until something ugly is said.  Then you withdraw, it's too overwhelming and everyone needs to calm down.

If it's money, you have to deal with that very directly.  I'd love to help but I can't afford it right now.  And that's not a lie, even if you're a gazillionaire.  Because when you help, you enable and things get worse.  You really can't afford to keep doing that.

If it's about just having you around, having you take her places, etc, then face that head on as well.  You can't always run when she calls because she lives hours away.  Does she really have to be that far away?  Would you consider moving back home if we spent more time together?  Let her make some efforts to meet you halfway (figuratively and literally).

[SoVeryConfused]

Oh, I’m sorry…  I wasn’t clear.

The crux of her complaint is that we/I am not in our home state for a number of months in winter, working from a southern state. We bought a little vacation place since we can work remote. Both kids in 20s-seemed like a fun opportunity. For the past 3 years.

We leave after Xmas and return to our home state in late spring. (It’s freezing where we live). My husband is back for a week each month and I go back once or twice in between too to see kids. They come to us too at times. . When we return home, we do  live 2 hours from her so can only see her on weekends since we all work. .many times she tells us not to come to her if she’s mad, so we don’t.

She says if I would just stay home and not leave in winter, all would be fine. Of course, when I am home, I get calls to drive to her to take her for an IV or a panic attack or eye problems etc immediately. .

Everything… everything is a test to see  if I love her enough to do it. I usually do not,  but I do waffle in my resolve. That’s caused problems- she feels she can’t trust me. I think she has a point. I’m  actively working on that.

On every call, she insists that I don’t care about her because I still come here with her dad when she’s “drowning”. She won’t see anyone so I’m not clear how I would help her feel better.

Every phone call is terrible. Unless I leave her dad and return home to do I’m not sure what, she wants no relationship. Then she’ll call 20 times and be angry I don’t pick up..

She says I’m cold. I kinda feel like I am - I’m so burnt out. I feel numb to the words.

I’m tempted to return to our home state when I can in a few weeks since it’s the only thing I haven’t yet tried, but I honestly don’t know if that will make things worse. Am I reinforcing negative behavior or just being a caring mom? It’s confusing.

[CC43]

I think if your daughter says she is having a medical issue, you offer to call 911. If she refuses immediate help, then you offer to call her doctor and make an appointment. If she refuses that too, then you say, she’s an adult, she decides, you are not a doctor, there’s nothing else you can do. If she needs a ride, you offer to call for a taxi or a kid Uber (I think there’s an Uber service that allows a parent to arrange for a ride for their child on the parental phone). If she says, I need you to drive me, you say you can’t because you are busy, but you remind her you can arrange for a ride for her. In each case you give her a choice, as long as you are not the solution, but you can offer to facilitate the help she’s requesting. This is akin to the “adviser” role I was talking about earlier. If she starts yelling at you, you extract yourself from the conversation, and say you’ll call her later.

[CC43]

PS, I’d advise you not to return to your home state. You need to live your life, not have it hijacked by your daughter. If you move closer, I suspect her behavior won’t change one bit. There was a poster called AlwaysAnxious whose daughter called every single night with demands like the ones you are describing, and they lived close to each other. In other words, geography won’t solve the problem in my opinion. If anything, you are keeping a little distance, so your adult daughter can learn some independence. If she wants to be closer, then I think she has to move, not you. If she doesn’t move, that’s her choice. It might be good for her to spread her wings. You might remind her of that.

[SoVeryConfused]

I’m really blown away by the generosity of you all in talking thru this with me and sharing recommendations. Thank you!! Boy, this is hard stuff.

I appreciate the practical responses and level setting my thinking. I think one of the worst parts of this is how it steals my confidence in my parenting and expectations of what to tolerate in a relationship.

We love our kids so it feels unnatural.

Thank you again. I’ll continue following these posts to keep learning.

[Pook075]

Oh, I’m sorry…  I wasn’t clear.

The crux of her complaint is that we/I am not in our home state for a number of months in winter, working from a southern state. We bought a little vacation place since we can work remote. Both kids in 20s-seemed like a fun opportunity. For the past 3 years.

We leave after Xmas and return to our home state in late spring. (It’s freezing where we live). My husband is back for a week each month and I go back once or twice in between too to see kids. They come to us too at times. . When we return home, we do  live 2 hours from her so can only see her on weekends since we all work. .many times she tells us not to come to her if she’s mad, so we don’t.

She says if I would just stay home and not leave in winter, all would be fine. Of course, when I am home, I get calls to drive to her to take her for an IV or a panic attack or eye problems etc immediately. .

Everything… everything is a test to see  if I love her enough to do it. I usually do not,  but I do waffle in my resolve. That’s caused problems- she feels she can’t trust me. I think she has a point. I’m  actively working on that.

On every call, she insists that I don’t care about her because I still come here with her dad when she’s “drowning”. She won’t see anyone so I’m not clear how I would help her feel better.

Every phone call is terrible. Unless I leave her dad and return home to do I’m not sure what, she wants no relationship. Then she’ll call 20 times and be angry I don’t pick up..

She says I’m cold. I kinda feel like I am - I’m so burnt out. I feel numb to the words.

I’m tempted to return to our home state when I can in a few weeks since it’s the only thing I haven’t yet tried, but I honestly don’t know if that will make things worse. Am I reinforcing negative behavior or just being a caring mom? It’s confusing.

Question- is there an extra bedroom (or a couch) at the vacation home?  If so, I'd frame it that she can always come to you and stay for as long as she likes (as long as she follows the rules, of course). 

Your boundary for that is exactly what you just told us, you're older now and can't take the bitter cold.  Your joints hurt and you can't get out in the weather like you used to.  Whatever, just give an honest reason why you're there during the winters.  And if she digs in, let her know that it's not about her at all...it's about what's best for you and your life.  It does have to be said though because she's looking at this emotionally, like mom is just leaving her for the heck of it.

Remember, you're responsible for you, she's responsible for her.  The whole goal is to get her to understand that and accept it.

You said something else important- unless you move home, she wants no relationship.  That's her choice, and we want her to make her own choices.  So hold her to that and stop letting it be a form of abuse.  She wants help, but you want respect.  It's a two-way street where both of you should get what you want....but she has to hold up her end.  You can't help if she's being abusive.

Returning home won't help- it will only blur the boundaries even more.  What actually helps is boundaries and making it clear she can't talk to you that way, she can't abuse you while she's crying out for help.  Let her abuse someone else instead and see how their relationship works out.  When it fails, it drives home the point that she's responsible for herself and needs to change.  If it fails 10 times, that's ten more important clues that the problem is within her.

One more thing- she says you're "<fill in the blank>".  This is coming from someone that's dysregulated and seeking attention in a destructive, abusive way.  Don't focus on the words that are supercharged by emotion...the words are a lie.  The feeling behind the words is the truth.  Focus on the emotions and respond to them until she's regulated and thinking clearly once again.

From time to time, my 26 year old will do the same thing- call me in a panic and say what a lousy dad I am for never being there, how it's my fault.  I listen calmly, without judgement, and reply very softly, "<kid's name>, I love you and I want to help.  What's going on?" 

Just that one sentence, delivered with compassion, and the conversation changes from me to something that happened that day.  And it's usually nonsense drama, a friend did this, another friend did that, they hate each other now and my kid is in the middle.  So I calm her down, let her see that this isn't her problem, and to give everyone some space since it's best for my kid's mental health.

Within 30 seconds, I go from the enemy to her biggest ally.  And because I've done this over and over and over again, I almost never get the abuse up front anymore.  But even when I do, it's a few unpleasant sentences and then I help her calm down and get her mind centered.

This took years of practice and boundaries though.  If my kid calls, she knows exactly what she's getting and what I stand for.  If she wants to come at me over LGBT, for example, she knows that I'll say I love her but we have different opinions on that and I'm not going to talk about it.  Because that's my answer every single time, almost word for word.  Her feelings matter, but so do mine and she has to respect that.

I hope that helps; none of this is easy at first.  But is does get better once you stand your ground and refuse to argue (or accept abuse).

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you - wow, excellent advice.

In one way, I know you're right in that if I return from our winter home, she won't make a single change, but will expect me to stick around, ready to respond to the next demand whenever. (I do not want to stick around for zero change.)

On the flip side, I see her deteriorating mentally, falling into a deeper pit as the days go on. Is it an extinction burst because we are finally trying to hold more boundaries around what we'll accept. Is it truly that her depression is so bad she can't dig herself out?

Do you try one more time? Is that the definition of insanity? Is that compassion? What is loving - letting it play out or not letting it play out?
So many questions....

[Pook075]

So many questions....

No problem at all, ask the hard questions as often as you have to.  That's what all of us are here for.

On the flip side, I see her deteriorating mentally, falling into a deeper pit as the days go on. Is it an extinction burst because we are finally trying to hold more boundaries around what we'll accept. Is it truly that her depression is so bad she can't dig herself out?

This is not about you.

Please let that sink in, this has nothing at all to do with you.  Your daughter is sick because she has BPD.  Your daughter is struggling because she doesn't see the need to get help. 

Maybe it would help to think of this like a physical injury.  Your daughter breaks her arm, and she continually complains that her arm hurts and it's all your fault.  But no matter how many times you say to go to the emergency room, she refuses.  The only thing that's going to help is to reset the broken bone so it heals properly.

Mental health is the same thing, it's healing by adjusting the way we think and react in certain situations.  The meds can help with symptoms (depression, etc) but they don't fix anything.  Only therapy can help get BPD's deal with disordered thinking.

If your daughter is "getting worse", then the need for therapy and change should be more obvious.  Encourage that when she asks.  That's all you can do to help her.

Do you try one more time? Is that the definition of insanity? Is that compassion?

You can try unlimited times, as long as you're playing by your rules and inserting healthy boundaries.  If she wants to talk, then talk.  If she wants to blame or abuse, then excuse yourself.  But you can do all of that compassionately.

What is loving - letting it play out or not letting it play out?

It has to play out, there's no other answer that gets her to realize that she needs more help than you can provide.  If she threatens to harm herself or others, you dial 9-1-1.  If she's abusive, you excuse yourself from the conversation while letting her know you love her and will talk again soon.  But you can't give into her delusions while she's disordered...that's harming her and you.

This is super tough...all of it.  Your kid needs to choose getting help though and actually taking it seriously.  If you say, "You're sick and need in-patient therapy," she could agree or completely flip out on you.  She needs to realize that herself for it to have a real impact.

Please understand, I'm not saying, "Don't go to her."  I still show up for my kid on bad days all the time.  But my kid now respects me and doesn't abuse me, she's past the point of saying it's all my fault.  If she wants to talk out a problem, I'll drop everything and listen...as long as she's not beating me up in the process.  Once that happens, I'll show her love and empathy while also saying that she's being unfair.  Today that clicks for her, but there were many, many years where it didn't.

You can help her unlimited times, that's a parent's job.  But in your case, you must walk a tight rope between helping and accepting abuse.  Those are two different things that require two different reactions.

I hope that helps.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you. So very helpful. I have so so much work to do myself to deal with this in a healthy way. I appreciate very much the clarity about this. Sure hard to do in practice, but I’m committed to trying to change my part to get my life back.