does she dislike me or is her guard up? - please help

[stevemcduck]

Hi Eyes up

I see where you are coming from. the are so many what if no matter what the situation is. I just think that all we went through and all of what we had its almost impossible to leave things as they are now. I think if I don't get any response, at some point I'm going to have to send a goodbye message, if nothing but for me own sanity and then move on. I find it so surreal to leave something that was so precious for both of us with just a few bad texts. maybe it is my hangup but it just doesn't sit right with me. I am suffering a great deal with all of this. I had never fell so hard for anyone before, and from what I believed neither did she, I'm struggling with the reality that maybe she didn't or did she. so may opposing thoughts and questions in my mind. if I had one wish right now it would be to understand the whole truth, so I could have an opportunity to process what happened but the way it has been left just makes no sense to me at all. im really broken, im struggling with day to day life, my sleep patterns are all over the place, as is my eating and im almost useless running my business. im trying to find strength, and im disappointed in myself at how weak I am being. I have always been a confident, upbeat, charismatic and successful person. now I have no idea who I am anymore. I feel like im waking around like a zombie or a ghost. all I want to do is sleep so I don't have to feel this pain. I also worry for her. I understand she is in a bad place mentally and I want to be there her. but I also need to be there for myself. it's such a wide range of emotions that I struggle with constantly. I am in therapy, I am socialising with friends and family. I meditate, workout and do yoga. im doing all of the typical healthy thing you should do in this situation but nothing seems to dull the pain.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[stevemcduck]

what would be the reason behind waiting?

to give her a little more time to see if she reaches out to me

[stevemcduck]

Also more time to allow her to get back to baseline

[once removed]

smart. makes sense.

she may be mad, or she may have hurt feelings, or both, but deep down, she probably doesnt want things to end on that last note, either.

so, sure, if you wait, you are likely to ultimately hear from her.

the only problem is, timing is a factor in this particular case. the longer, in her mind, the two of you are broken up, the more "real" it becomes, and the more going back might seem like lifting a boulder up a mountain. in situations like these, sometimes more time passed is better (or neutral), sometimes you dont want to wait too long.

the thing about your note is that its organic: you got the £100, it makes sense to thank her, and it makes sense to politely follow up, about her, about the dog, about whatever.

it wont necessarily hurt things to wait, if your senses are telling you to do so. it just may make less sense to send your note if you wait too long.

[stevemcduck]

yes I hear what you are saying, maybe go with a happy medium, I was going to wait until Tuesday buy maybe Sunday would be best, thats also her day off work so she will have time to consider if she will respond

[once removed]

sure, if the timing feels right to you, it makes sense to give things until the weekend.

[stevemcduck]

yeah I will sleep on it and see how I feel.

im starting to think some different thoughts now. im having difficulty coming to terms that she could ghost and discard me like this. I am the one person who cares for her the most in the whole world, not even her family really bother with her. it is such self sabotaging behaviour. also I just thought that since she initially moved out she hasn't asked how my kids were once. she was stepmom to them for 3 years and they loved her

[once removed]

im starting to think some different thoughts now. im having difficulty coming to terms that she could ghost and discard me like this. I am the one person who cares for her the most in the whole world, not even her family really bother with her. it is such self sabotaging behaviour. also I just thought that since she initially moved out she hasn't asked how my kids were once. she was stepmom to them for 3 years and they loved her

its good to think these things through. "bpd relationships" are not, generally, "fair and equal" in a traditional sense - they are special needs relationships. if a person is choosing to stay, or to try to reconcile, they should do so with eyes wide open, and realistic expectations of what the ideal version of their relationship can be.

the way shes handling and going about this is immature, and hurtful, no doubt. she isnt thinking things through.

in your hurt, dont lose sight of the big picture, and how the two of you got to where you are now: 1000 cuts. lots of damage over time, and a breakdown of trust. when that happens, both parties tend to move away from relationship repair and connection, and increasingly either toward self preservation, and/or trying to wrest control/power of the direction the relationship is going.

in that scenario, there arent winners and losers, good guys or bad guys; just two people trying to cope with a hard situation, and hurting each other in the process. it takes a lot of work, when its possible, to steer the relationship in a healthier direction, in a way that works for both people, and the relationship as a whole.

im having difficulty coming to terms

so, do think it through. do give voice to the part of you that isnt happy with the way things have gone, are going. determine, with support, and as close to objectivity as you can get, what part of that is you, what part of that is her, what part can realistically change, and how much - whether its enough. all the skills, tools, and love, in the world, cant make two people right for each other, if, at the end of the day, they arent the right fit for each other. in your hurt, dont try to get her back at any cost - because as EyesUp said, this ultimately, if the relationship is salvageable, will take a lot of work.

whatever you decide to do, or however things go, keep your eyes on the big picture: being able to look back, five years from now, and say that youre proud of how you handled it.

[stevemcduck]

yes there is a lot to consider for sure, I decided to send the message just now. fingers crossed.

again thanks for all the help guys. il let you know if I get any response

[stevemcduck]

hi guys, I sent the message, I went out on a limb and added some of my own message also[


Hey,  just noticed you made a bank transfer, thank you. I really hope you are doing ok. Are you healing ok? How’s (dog)? X

then I sent

When I got the text from you saying we would not talk anymore, I felt very hurt, my mind took it for a breakup. i thought i wouldn't bother you with the group msgs.. i now feel that i might have misunderstood, i am sorry, i didn't mean to hurt you. i would like to apologise for that x

[stevemcduck]

nothing yet guys, not even the blue ticks. keeping my fingers crossed

[stevemcduck]

if I don't hear anything in 3 days im going to go for a big email. one last Hail Mary, and if that doesn't work I'm going to put all of this behind me and move on with my life, this is what I have come up with, any advice would be appreciated

I hope you are ok. I have some things I would like to get off my chest before I say goodbye. I hope you can spare some time to read what I have to say.
This whole situation has obviously been very difficult for both of us. I have had a lot of time to reflect and try to make sense of everything in my own mind. I can’t say I have this right for sure but what I have been thinking is that from such a short space of time going from being in love to not even talking doesn’t sit right with me. First, I want to say. I miss you, I miss us, I miss dog , you guys are my family. I miss the small things, like when would scratch each other’s back and laugh when it feels so good or saying silly things like “at least the radiators work”. I have tried so hard to be a good man for you, I have made some big mistakes, however. Mistakes that I didn’t fully grasp at the time but looking back I missed some major things. I think you have been battling with your mental health for a long time, well before we broke up and I think a lot of it is my fault. I know you have issues with abandonment, and I was far too preoccupied with my own issues to give you the reassurance that you needed. I’m sorry for that, so sorry, I would do anything to turn back time and handle things differently, I was talking about my own issues to you far too much and I think that it all became very overwhelming for you to have to take on board my problems as well as battling with you own internal stress. I also think that when you were in this difficult mental state the kids were difficult for you to be around as you were already very stressed, and they understandably added to that. Plus, we both had a lot of work stress and you with your surgery must have added a huge weight on your shoulders, I can imagine everything got a lot and I didn’t know how to help.
I think that 2 weeks that we got back together I didn’t handle things very well either, I will admit I was paranoid, and I have my own abandonment issues, and I was worried in case I lost you, and unfortunately, I did. I have been working hard in therapy to address these issues, so I no longer have such an intense problem there. At the time I tried to bring us closer and spend more time together, but I feel I suffocated you, I thought it would help to be closer, but I was wrong, you needed space I just couldn’t see that at the time. This is something else I’m sorry I did. Also, I was concerned that your job was taking over your life and that it was more important to you than I was. Again, I have worked on this, I was in a very strange state myself at that time, I apologise.
When you moved to London, I noticed a huge shift in how you would communicate with me, both the frequency and the tone. Please try to understand why I was concerned about this. Now that I have had the chance to fully reflect, I can understand that you were struggling mentally and maybe did not have the capacity to fully engage in thoughts about me or our relationship, I can fully understand and take that on board now. I’m sorry, I was pushing too hard for my own needs, it was selfish of me, and I apologise, I see where I went wrong now.

If there is any way we can resolve these issues and find our way back to each other in some way I would like to try. You are the most precious thing to me in the entire world, you are my world, I don’t think there is another human being on this planet loves and cares for you as much as I do. I want you in my life. I care for you so much I would die for you, I mean that. I love you more than I love myself. I want to make sure you don’t have to go through any of this ever again. I know now that a lot of the time you feel misunderstood, that I don’t understand you, but I want to change that, I think I’m getting there now but I have a lot to learn still. When you would say things like, “do you hate me?” “I am a burden?” I now realise sometimes you really felt those things., I can assure you that I have never felt like you were a burden, and I have certainly never felt hatred for you. But now I know more reassurance is needed. I know you have been through a lot in your life, and it hurts me to think of all the daily pain you must go through, I would do anything to be able to take that away, and that because of those traumas sometimes you think differently to me, I want to learn to understand, to “get you” so that I can better take care of you and give the emotional support you need from me. I want to show you that I am willing to do this consistently for the rest of my life. Il never hate you, il never abandon you and I will always be there for you. You are not alone.
I have no hard feelings, anger or resentment for anything that has happened so for, I know you are in a lot of pain, and it breaks my heart you that you must go through that.
All the issues we have are solvable, if you are willing, we could start taking again at a pace that works for you and I won’t try to rush things, of course I would make suggestions, I will back off if the pace isn’t right for you. You mentioned when I came to visit you, and I was taking you to the taxi that you go through cycles. In the future, if we get to a point that it happened again, we could communicate how best to handle it, let’s say we were living together and you needed a few weeks, I could move to my mans or you could go visit family or something like that. I think with communication and understanding we could navigate these things. If you were feeling overwhelmed and I had the kids, I could stay at my mams with them so you wouldn’t have that stress. There are many things we could work out so that you would be comfortable. You are loved, wanted and needed. I will always be here and always be someone you can trust. I would love to us to make mental and physical health a top priority for us as well a peace going forward into our future.
Having said all of this I could be completely wrong, maybe you just don’t love me anymore, maybe you were bored with me, maybe you want something or someone else. I can’t be so sure. If it is any of these reasons, please will you be honest with me, even if it hurts me, I’d rather know what I did wrong to learn from it, so I don’t make the same mistakes in the future.
I know you could get any guy, a better-looking guy, a richer guy, a more fun guy. However, I think it would be a miracle if you could get someone that cares for you like I do, someone that would be willing to write an email like this, I hope you can see the value in that.
I know you told me not to message you, I can’t help but think there is a part of you that still wants me to fight for you, to show I care and reassure you. I made you a promise to never abandon you unless you specifically told me to. And I’m not the kind of man to give up on the people he loves. And I love you more than life itself.
Have a think about what I have said, if there’s anything you need that I have missed please let me know so I can incorporate that into this also. If there is any chance, we can find common ground let me know. This is not what I want but if you want me to walk away for good, please pop me a message saying “walk away” so I know to never contact you again and I can move forward with my life, if that is your decision I will respect it. If I don’t ever talk to you again just know, you were deeply loved to your core, I will treasure our time together, you are an amazing person, be kind to yourself and I wish you the very best for the future.

[once removed]

if I don't hear anything in 3 days im going to go for a big email. one last Hail Mary, and if that doesn't work I'm going to put all of this behind me and move on with my life, this is what I have come up with, any advice would be appreciated

i think it was a good idea to write the message, and hold onto it. keep working at it, refining it.

i dont think it would be a good idea to send it, or anything further, right now.

you wrote one note. you gave it time. you followed up. thats a reasonable minimum. not too much, not too little, appropriate in context, earnest, and dignified. you can feel good about the effort, and the things you said. doing more becomes risky, after that.

you may:

1. denigrate your dignity

2. if she isnt ready or willing to talk, she will be even less willing to respond to an escalation/hail mary; it will feel like pressure, and push her away

3. feel even worse when/if she doesnt respond to the effort you put into it

4. the note itself is, essentially, pouring your heart out; its emotional processing of what youre going through, and it seeks acknowledgment of it. its highly therapeutic to write it. but someone in her position, actually receiving it, is very unlikely to take it in the way that you would hope.

you have, for right now, played your last best card, and doing more, at this point, is likely to work against your goals. that doesnt mean you have to completely give up, if you dont want to.

you can keep refining the hail mary idea. consider other approaches than a letter (got any in mind? tough with long distance.). maybe in a month, or two, or three, if you still want to send it, it might be worth a shot, and lower risk than it is right now.

it is far from a foregone conclusion that you have heard from her for the last time. at the same time, after two efforts, and roughly a couple of weeks, it does suggest shes either committed to a breakup, or committed to "sending a message", or both. we dont know. she may write you back tomorrow, and she may not. one thing i know is that no one likes to end on a note like that. not when theyve had time to get away, cool down, and the ice has had a chance to thaw. that could take longer, and it also could never come; i wouldnt suggest you put your life on hold in waiting for it. but think about it: no one likes to be the person that says "screw your apology", you just look and feel like the bad guy. youve got a history; a complex one, and also one with a lot of pain in it. if someone has shut down communication, the pain tends to be foremost in their mind. there comes, for most people, a point where that shifts, although even that is not a guarantee that someone will reach out. you know her best. what do you honestly think? 

you can, of course, send the hail mary as is, at any time. i believe you would regret it.

and you can, if you decide to, put it behind you. i know how hard that would be, but we'll be here to support you if you decide to.

at the end of the day, as urgent as things feel, you have time, and you have options. keep thinking on it.

[stevemcduck]

Yes I take on board and understand what you are saying. let me tell you what is going on in my head right now.

Im starting to think that if I am not going to get a response anyway what hard can a risk do at this point. also my dignity isn't going to matter too much, she is far away and we have no mutual connections so if this is it I simply won't hear from or see her ever again. so no problem with embarrassment from friends etc.

I understand what you are saying about pushing her away further and wait a little longer. what I worry about with waiting is that she will detach more and move on to someone else, at that point its pretty much over.

im not to worried about feeling worse now. a part of me want to move on from this if it isn't going to work, at least if I send that message a can move forward knowing in my heart I tried everything I possibly could have. I dont want to completely give up without telling her what I really feel. my most honest feelings and let her do what she will with that.

the only other approach a can think to show I care is to send a get well card with a little care package of her favourite things, I know her address.

What do I honestly think?, I'm unsure, I think if she wanted to move on she would at least have the decency to just explain that to me, she has always been a good communicator and its only recently that changed. so maybe she is sending a message, I think she doesn't know what she wants. this last 2 weeks is the only time she has totally cut off communication, she said we should talk and to leave her alone but she hasn't clearly said he wants to move on, it seems clear what she has said but I know her mind, it isn't crystal clear. there is a part of me that thinks she wants me to fight but there is a part of me that thinks should would send a nice message ending it with grace, and compassion. she has never been the cold before.

I am coming to the conclusion that I may need to put this behind me, but again, I would like to have said everything I could have to try, that way going forward I can look back and think "at least I did my very best" if I sent the Hail Mary and it was totally ignored I would feel that is very cruel  to ignore such a heartfelt message and it would help me to move on thinking that she could be so cruel.

[once removed]

all fair points. all things id be concerned about if i were in your shoes. let me speak to a few of them.

what I worry about with waiting is that she will detach more and move on to someone else

if that is going to happen, its going to happen. timing likely wont be a major factor in the outcome.

if shes done, shes done. we are hoping that she isnt.

also worth noting: if there is going to be a point that you hear from her, youre in a stronger position if she initiates it.

at least if I send that message a can move forward knowing in my heart I tried everything I possibly could have. I dont want to completely give up without telling her what I really feel. my most honest feelings and let her do what she will with that.

sure, i can appreciate that. you dont want to let your piece go unsaid.

if thats the case, then here is what to consider:

do you care more about it "working" (having the ideal outcome), or getting it off your chest? if its the latter, then youre right, there isnt much harm to be done, doesnt much matter what you say as long as you feel good about it. timing wont matter either.

if you care more about it evoking a response from her, then know that whatever you do will have a low success rate (not guaranteed to fail, just statistically less likely; thats what a hail mary is), and that you want to craft the best possible version with the greatest likelihood of achieving the outcome youre hoping for. theres a lot in the current version of the letter that will work against that likelihood.

the only other approach a can think to show I care is to send a get well card with a little care package of her favourite things, I know her address.

this might be the better idea. its different. its actions, rather than words.