Is holding grudges for years normal?

[Manila_hummous]

I've been the main support for my BPD brother my entire life. For the past decade he's been in one huge crisis after another and I've always been the one to drop everything and help him. It's been incredibly taxing on my mental health and my nerves have been shot for years, from constantly worrying about him.

I've done a lot of work on my own mental health and in creating boundaries over the past few years and I've reached a point where I'm finding dealing with his behaviour intolerable. Because of this and putting boundaries in place where I refuse to be mentally and emotionally abused by him, he's started turning on me. I've gone from being his go to person, to being the devil in his mind.

He's bringing back things I've said to him 10 years ago and twisted it into fuel to attack me. He's told me today he's started to hate me. This is after I've spent the past 6 months dropping everything in my own life to deal with his most recent crisis.

It really seems like he believes all the terrible things he says about me. It's incredibly hurtful when all I've ever done is be there to support him whenever he's needed it.

It's clear he's been festering on statements I made years ago and I don't understand how or why he's doing this.

[Swimmy55]

Hi and yes, they hold on to grudges.  Here is more reading from the forum https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=297937.0

I can't fully explain why, but they seem to need to ruminate over old stuff.  Yes, they also hate Boundaries.  That's ok. Still use your Boundaries.  I've personally have had to limit visit times and frequencies.  Once I have enacted the nuclear option of getting up to leave mid rant.  That one is very hard to do.  It is very difficult to be told that/ cursed out. We have to work on loving ourselves anyway , which includes trying our best to choose us over them as best we can.  Their illness makes us have to choose , Unfortunately.   

[Manila_hummous]

Thank you for reading and replying. Yes the ruminating is on another level. He creates imagined slights in his head and then brings them up in every conversation for months and sometimes years. It's exhausting. I've told him before the rumination isn't healthy and he denies even doing it.

[WalkbyFaith]

Hi Manila,
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Yes, my uBPD mom does the same thing - still bringing up mistakes or offenses of mine (some very twisted in her mind or merely imagined) from yearrrrrsss ago.

I ponder on this because for myself, I also have a tendency to ruminate on things from my childhood, ways she mistreated me or manipulated me, etc. So I ask, am I any different/better? I think the difference is to make sure, for myself, that I'm simply processing and working toward healing from these things, not just holding a grudge.

Those are my thoughts on it today!

[EyesUp]

Reinforcing what others have said:

"Normal" is relative... Yes, grudges are a recurring theme in BPD relationships. But this doesn't mean that it's a "normal" or healthy behavior to hold a grudge without resolution for an extended/indefinite amount of time.

It's 100% ok to say "I believe we've covered this before and I don't wish to do it again".   

[CC43]

Indeed, holding ancient grudges and excessive rumination are typical patterns for BPD.  My BPD adult stepdaughter still does this, even after extensive therapy which has diminished other of her BPD behaviors.  I think that rumination is a maladaptive coping mechanism, a deflection away from dealing with current issues.  When current stresses, setbacks or discomfort seem unmanageable, she'll turn to her old standby of purported abuses from childhood, where her brain has distorted facts to portray herself as a victim.  I think that she ruminated about these supposed abuses so much that she wore a rut in her brain!  Her reasoning is that, since she felt she was abused as a child, she's not responsible for her life and current problems:  it's someone else's fault.  This is a deflection of responsibility, a victim attitude, a learned helplessness and regression, wrapped up all in one!  Even if it's painful for her to open old wounds, it's preferable to and easier than taking charge of her own life.  She just can't get past the past.  And in practical terms, that means she remains estranged from everyone in her family, except her dad (and me) who supports her financially/emotionally/logistically.  She hasn't spoken to or visited with her mom, twin sibling, older sibling, grandma, cousins, aunt and uncle for years, she says because they are all toxic and abusive.  But I think she remains estranged because she feels deep shame, as she lashed out at all of them, and she's not really living like an adult yet, so she feels childlike and inferior.  Does that sound about right?

I can say that my BPD stepdaughter has stabilized enough now that when she brings up her past grievances, her dad will challenge her on that.  He'll say, "You aren't being abused NOW, are you?  Blaming everyone for the past didn't make you feel any better before, did it?  The past didn't have anything to do with getting fired from your job, did it?  Talking about that incident from a decade ago doesn't help, does it?  You've got to focus on TODAY, because that's what's important."  And fortunately, he's been able to snap her out of it, or she'll retreat and take a time out for a while, but the time out will last only a few days, and not weeks or months like it did when she was at her worst.  As another example, when she was complaining to me about the "horrible" things her siblings did to her from a long time ago (while omitting her part in the arguments), I asked her, What do you want to happen then?  She replied, I want them to be punished.  And then I asked her, What sort of punishment do you want?  And how would that make YOU feel any better?  And she froze, because I think she realized that she probably wouldn't feel any better, as her problems had nothing at all to do with her siblings.

Just my two cents.

[Swimmy55]

There is a section here on "validating" the bpd.  I have not mastered this at all. https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/03.htm
My validating the valid seems to annoy my uBPD Dad .  Maybe comes across as parroting to him?  The convo/ rant takes a bad turn,  goes down the toilet and  I get traumatized myself at this point.  For me this is a slippery slope, especially when they are hell bent on arguing anyway.

[Notwendy]

I think if someone is wanting to argue- it's serves a purpose for them- a release of their uncomfortable feelings. So saying anything to them in the moment may not be effective to decrease the argument. They may not be seeking validation in the moment. This is a way to get the feelings out.

Validating is one "tool", but there are others. Keep in mind, the tools are not to act on the other person. We can't control another person. They are to decrease our part in the drama. So validation may not work to calm another person down in the moment of their emotions.

Another "tool" is to not engage. This can be choosing to not reply, or ending the conversation in a non confrontational way. Using "I" statements are better than "you" statements. "I understand what you are saying but I am not able to reply at the moment" and then leave or hang up.

Sometimes if the conversation isn't abusive- I would say nothing. Sometimes saying anything would cause BPD mother to escalate. She just wanted to be listened to.

I think the time where validation may help is either before the emotional venting or after or anytime when the person is feeling calmer. After is when the feelings are out- and the person is more calm and then saying something like "I am sorry you feel that way" may help.

As to holding a grudge. I think it was more about being in victim perspective and having memories that reflected this perspective. So something we said a long time ago can be placed into this perspective. Everyone makes mistakes at times but these become a form of "validation" for victim perspective. With victim perspective- the person isn't accountable. People don't blame the victim. It's a way to avoid shame which is a difficult emotion.

[zachira]

It is so important to remember to not validate the invalid. We can praise other people when they have done something genuinely nice. Not validating the invalid is challenging with highly disordered individuals. We learn from our mistakes. I am a work in progress in giving too much attention to the wrong people when they are acting badly And doing better at shutting down the interactions when they are abusive and self centered. It helps me to look at whether we are genuinely connecting or just making superficial contact before I decide to continue or end the interaction with another person.

[Swimmy55]

 

[ForeverDad]

The mention of proper boundaries is important.  However, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) resist boundaries.  Therefore, boundaries are for us, how we respond to poor behavior.  It's not so much that we can stop the other person from behaving poorly, it's what we choose to do - or not do - when it happens.

For example, we can state a boundary in this way, "If you ___ then I will leave, go to another room, take the dog for a walk, take the kids to the park, etc."

Staying there and sitting until a rant exhausts itself isn't very productive and might even be as bad as appeasing in some cases.  Of course even that may be impractical sometimes.  I recall once when I tried to leave my then-spouse jumped on my back and wouldn't let go!

Frequently when the other recounts perceived slights, hurts and complaints there are ultimatums for apologies.  Here's what happened in my former relationship when I did try to appease.

About a year or so before my marriage imploded (with a police visit and events afterward) I gave in to my then-spouse's demands that I apologize, often for what she resurrected from long before, even though I'd already 'apologized' for them.  I gave in.  I would apologize for whatever she demanded.  Yeah, to keep the peace.  Soon she was demanding I had left something out of my apology and insisted I apologize yet again.  While I'm not generally this sort of person, I started leaving out portions of what she demanded.  Sure enough, I had to start over.  Once or twice I recall it was up to a half dozen times I had to restate my apology but I kept leaving out different segments. And she never caught on!

Finally, after months, I told her (Boundary) that henceforth I would only apologize for what I decided merited an apology.  And just once, not over and over as she would rehash past triggers she had never let go.

Was she upset?  Of course.

[Manila_hummous]

It's really difficult to know how to respond when he brings these ruminations up because they aren't even factual. So there's no resolution. I can't resolve something that never happened. His most recent one is he's been telling me and other family members that I refuse to physically be in a room with him for 6 months. I've been to his house multiple times in that timeframe. In the past month I've invited him to hang out at mine 4 times and he's declined, because he only wants me to go to him. He lives in another city and I have many life obligations so I can't just come over whenever he wants. He claims he can't drive to me because he has panic attacks, so it's my fault and I'm avoiding him??

Now this is his narrative. He tells me I've broken his heart and let him down. But I'm so worn out from it all I have nothing left to give and the emotional abuse from him just drains me even more. I've had to put a boundary in place and told him that I can't speak to him when he's being emotionally abusive, and then any time he is I tell him I'll speak to him another time when he can speak to me without being abusive, then he gets angry! I'm so sick of it all.

[zachira]

Do you think your brother might be a candidate for an emergency in home psych evaluation by the authorities in your area, if you report his behavior to the proper agency?

[Methuen]

They absolutely hold grudges.  Forever.  Something (an interpretation of theirs) from 10 or 20 years ago that seemed inconsequential to you can be suddenly heaved at you as a major crime.  They keep  "score".

If you try to defend yourself, doing so confirms your guilt.  If you argue, it escalates their emotions.  If you try to justify or explain why you did something, it both escalates them and confirms your guilt.  There is no "reasoning" with them.

I've had to put a boundary in place and told him that I can't speak to him when he's being emotionally abusive, and then any time he is I tell him I'll speak to him another time when he can speak to me without being abusive

This is perfect.  You are stating your perspective (that he's being abusive) and also your boundary (you'll talk to him when he can be nice). 

If he responds with anger, that's on him.  You get to  enforce your boundary and leave the conversation, go take care of yourself, and let him deal with him.