Do people with BPD remember their splitting episodes?

[pantherpanther]

My wife has never apologized and rarely has acknowledged anything she has said or done during a splitting episode.  Basically acts as if it didn't happen afterwards.  Does she truly not remember it?

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[CC43]

Hi there,

Unless she's acting psychotic, I imagine that she remembers everything.  Yet she doesn't acknowledge that because it hurts her too much.  I bet she plays the victim, correct?  By playing the victim, her issues are always someone else's fault.  She feels "justified" in acting poorly because somebody else is to blame.  This is her BPD way of coping, and it's a reason you won't get an apology.  For her, it's easiest to try to pretend like she did nothing wrong, because facing the truth is too painful for her.  In fact, I bet she often feels intense shame and inferiority.  If she's angry at other people for no good reason, I bet most of the time she's really mad at herself, but she's coping by projecting her anger outwards.  If she keeps her anger inside, she'll be very depressed, and probably withdrawn.  In her mind, every emotion is over-the-top, and disagreements feel like the end of the world.  It's the black-and-white thinking that you'll hear about on these boards.  Does that make sense?

[Chosen]

Complete echo what CC43 said. I think they certainly remember, but the remembering brings too much shame. So they probably feel like they're the worst person in the world, much more so than how you think of them. BUT they don't do the "logical" thing to apologise and try to improve; they project. So now you are the bad person because you made them angry and also made them feel shameful afterwards.

[Under The Bridge]

My wife has never apologized and rarely has acknowledged anything she has said or done during a splitting episode.  Basically acts as if it didn't happen afterwards.  Does she truly not remember it?

Totally agree with CC43 and Chosen's replies. I've seen the odd post here where the BPD does actually apologise but it's usually not the case - their distorted thinking is more likely to concoct some way in which you caused everything and they are totally blameless.

I still do believe, however, that BPD's are far more aware of what they're doing than they might have us believe. For example, after having a bad day at her work place my exBPD would still get all dressed up and meet me in the evening.. just so she could break up with me because of her bad day. This happened a lot with work or family arguments and shows clear premeditation and planning; she turned up specifically to break up with me, often just walking straight past me when she came in.

Never once did I get an apology, but I just can't believe she didn't have some idea of what she was doing, even if she was feeling bad about it inside.

[once removed]

have you ever been in a highly dysregulated state?

when your system is flooded like that, it can be a lot like blacking out. with bpd, the intensity is even greater.

so, yes: emotional overwhelm can lead to impaired memory and recall ability, and a disconnect (possibly dissociation) from personal experiences.

[CC43]

Regarding disassociation when in a highly dysregulated state, I can attest that the pwBPD in my life experienced that from time to time.  It may well be that she "blacked out," and that she might not be able to recall all the details of the experience.  Yet these instances of disassociation/delusions were very rare, only occurring when she felt she was under extreme stress.  But what wasn't rare was her lashing out out in a rage, acting petulant/disrespectful/pi**y, making mean (and typically untrue) accusations, or simply storming out, which occurred practically on a daily basis.  I have no doubt that she is 100% aware of her passive-aggressive behavior, rudeness and/or overall sour attitude.  What is twisted about it though, is her reasoning for her behavior.  She maintains that someone else is being pushy, disrespectful, unfair, nosey or condescending, and so her outbursts are "justified" in her mind.  Her ongoing narrative is that people are constantly acting abusive towards her.  But really the opposite is true.  People are trying to be supportive and nice, and she's the abusive one.  Her very negative attitude poisons many interactions, and she projects negative meanings onto neutral circumstances.  An example might be asking her, "How are you?"  She'll see that question as nosey and laced with judgment, because she feels insecure about her position (unemployed, struggling with school, dependent, etc.).  Her reaction might be to grunt and "storm off" in protest.  In the old days, she would hope for someone to reach out repeatedly and "beg" her to come back, and bribe her with something she wanted, and I think that made her reaction seem even more justified in her mind.  These days, I'd say we're more likely to give her a time out and wait patiently until her mood is stable enough to handle a simple conversation.

[Alex V]

Last time my wife had an outburst was a reaction on my : How are you?
In her outburst she yelled at me I made her small.
Confronting her later she said that was not what she said.
She changed it into: I feel small.
In other occasions she could be laughy about outburst.
Thinking it was funny, but not in my perspective.
I was hurt.

[Lauters]

My feeling is that they re-write/re-think history. By changing the facts step by step, they're able to evolve from responsible to what happened into 100% victim, and blame the other one (projection). In that way, they try to avoid the splitting-shame-fear spiral. But deep down, I think they still know that it was their improper behaviour that caused the conflict.

[thankful person]

11 years together and I am still trying to work this out too. My wife and I just had a fairly decent week away with our young family bringing her mother along to babysit and give us some “quality time together”. Yes I dread that but it went well.

We got back last night and her mother is staying another week. Bpdw went to bed with our kids and I was left to feed and entertain mother. Oops. Half an hour passed where I forgot to text wife upstairs. This lead to a two hour splitting text rant, and I quote:

“You ruined an entire week together because you still put everything else before me”

“I don’t mind you talking to her, but you’ve basically been ignoring me. You haven’t even texted me to ask if I was coming down.”

“Yes, I see as the week is ruined as we spent that time trying to better our relationship and we come back to being exactly the same”

“I am constantly always talking to you pretty much you are never ever talking to me. It’s always me texting you first and you respond. Even when I am out partying, I am choosing to text you!! That in itself says it all”

And on, and on… I have spoken before about how I can’t lay down the boundary and turn my phone off to sleep as she will come in and shout at me and wake the kids, so I’m choosing to avoid that. And she wouldn’t even care shouting and waking her mum as her mum has no opinion to share on anything ever.

Today was a public holiday and we went out for a meal and cinema. It went well again. I have no idea whether she’s decided she was in any way extreme or ridiculous last night, as she wouldn’t admit it. It’s been as though it never happened. She said the other day she doesn’t know if our marriage can survive. She’s just all over the place and I can’t keep up but I’m basically beyond caring because I just want my children to have a stable childhood and I’m working very hard on that.

[Lauters]

Well, that sounds quite familiar. According to my opinion, this is what also defines BPD.

The slightest thing that upsets them, can throw a whole nice week away, just in a few seconds. BP's just don't think or react like you and me. Life facts are processed in a different way in their brain. And if they're of the 'higher functional invisible/transparant' type, it becomes even more difficult. They can act very normal in the outside world, but are a completely different person at home (jekyll & hide). And yes, after a crisis (raging & blaming), they can act like everything seems normal (when in the outside world).

Be careful with the children. I underestimated the effect a BPD mother can have on children, and now my youngest son is also stuggling with his emotions and feelings towards his mother (she ruined his young life).

About your mother in law: don't expect support. Most people, even therapists, are not really aware of what this is all about. Concerning the therapists: you cannot blame them. Their 'bibble' for psychological illnesses (DSM) hardly mentions BPD (3 to 4 pages out of the 1200). And that just covers the 'lower functional conventional' type.

If you want to learn more about BPD, I would advice you 'The essential famely guide to BPD' from R. Kreger.

May the force be with you (humor is what we need to keep on going?)

[Pook075]

The slightest thing that upsets them, can throw a whole nice week away, just in a few seconds. BP's just don't think or react like you and me. Life facts are processed in a different way in their brain. And if they're of the 'higher functional invisible/transparant' type, it becomes even more difficult. They can act very normal in the outside world, but are a completely different person at home (jekyll & hide). And yes, after a crisis (raging & blaming), they can act like everything seems normal (when i

But it's not the "slightest thing", it's 1,000 things that they're constantly studying and contemplating.  For instance, you didn't hold the door for her at Burger King last week...did you do it on purpose?  Were you trying to be mean and show her that you hate her?  And what about the time you promised you'd do the dishes and claimed "you forgot"?  You definitely didn't forget, you did it out of spite to humiliate her.

These are teeny, tiny things that people with healthy brains forget about in 5 seconds.  But for BPD's, they're like attorneys building a case against a criminal.  Nothing is forgotten, nothing is unimportant.  It all builds the perfect case that nobody can deny.

The only problem is, 99% of their facts are biased and tampered with in their own minds.

So you see one small incident and <boom>, it's like the world is ending.  But to them, that was the 1,000th thing in the past month and there were 10,000 other things on file for this year alone.  The most recent thing was simply the hair that broke the camel's back.

As far as the "apology part", we see it as one incident, one blowup.  But they're looking far into the past for "facts" that make their behavior entirely justified.  You did this, this, that, the other thing...and they didn't say a word.  Now you're doing this and trying to act like the victim?!?

When we challenge it, that's just proof that we never cared about them and can't possibly understand them.  Again, this is disordered thinking...which is not real but it is their reality.  So to them it's 100% true and factual.

[CC43]

I agree with Pook, in that the disordered thinking about negative feelings is what derails them.

You say that your wife went to bed early after returning home from a vacation, and you spent time with your MIL, and then your wife blew up.  Here are some potential reasons for her tantrum:

-She enjoyed the week but then realized it had come to an end, and she had to return to her normal routine.  Rather than be grateful for an enjoyable experience, she regrets its absence, and she deeply feels the disappointment of it.  Because she can't process the disappointment in any rational way, her negative outlook takes over, and she lashes out, blaming you:  you "ruined" the enjoyable week.  Her brain is inventing a way to blame you for her feelings of disappointment.

-She enjoyed the week when you were able to focus most of your attention on her.  She realizes that when she's alone in bed (by her own choosing), she misses your exclusive attention on her.  Because she can't process the feeling rationally, she lashes out at you, reprimanding you for not showering her with enough attention.  She's acutely jealous of any attention you show to others, even if it's her own family.

Man, this behavior must be exhausting.  How anyone can be expected to enquire about the welfare of a spouse who went to bed early while making dinner and entertaining a house guest?  She demands minute-by-minute text communications?  But that's BPD.  Her expectations are totally unrealistic, and because of that, she's constantly disappointed, and she rationalizes it and then acts out her disappointment.  The way I see it, at the core of her behavior is her negativity, her emotional dysregulation, and her distorted thinking about it, which invariably becomes some twisted story of victimhood, with you causing all her problems.  It's very dysfunctional indeed.  That's why the experts compare it to "walking on eggshells," trying to do the impossible by not ever offending or upsetting her.

[thankful person]

Be careful with the children. I underestimated the effect a BPD mother can have on children, and now my youngest son is also stuggling with his emotions and feelings towards his mother (she ruined his young life).

May the force be with you (humor is what we need to keep on going?)

How old is your youngest? Our eldest is 5 and shows many signs of parentification but otherwise seems well adjusted, happy, confident.. well, beyond her years bless her heart. We have a four year old and two year old but they are quite volatile but also very young and D4 has had many medical issues so a stressful life anyway.

Thanks for the Star Wars reference. I used to watch it with my ex which means I will never watch it with my wife . But I clearly remember that when I told him I was leaving him for her… he saw it as me turning to the Dark Side.. the Anakin love story. He wasn’t wrong. And I knew it. But I still left him for her.

[thankful person]

Man, this behavior must be exhausting.  How anyone can be expected to enquire about the welfare of a spouse who went to bed early while making dinner and entertaining a house guest?  She demands minute-by-minute text communications?  But that's BPD.  Her expectations are totally unrealistic, and because of that, she's constantly disappointed, and she rationalizes it and then acts out her disappointment.  The way I see it, at the core of her behavior is her negativity, her emotional dysregulation, and her distorted thinking about it, which invariably becomes some twisted story of victimhood, with you causing all her problems.  It's very dysfunctional indeed.  That's why the experts compare it to "walking on eggshells," trying to do the impossible by not ever offending or upsetting her.

Thanks for the insight CC43. I don’t come on here so much these days but the validation for us non bpd’s is immense and I love it!! There was a reason I joined here as Broken Person and later changed my name to Thankful Person. I now work with a team of amazing people who know about my wife’s behaviour and I’m not ashame, I don’t keep her secrets anymore of how she treats me so more power to me.

[Lauters]

To answer to your question: the deterioration of the relationship with his mother started when he was about 17 (that is what she pretends). But it really turned bad during the pandemic when he was 19.
She is now blaming the situation on the fact that when our son was younger, some tests showed a possible link with ASS and a quite decent IQ, and that I did nothing when their relationship started to go down (when he was 17-18). At that time, I was of the opinion that she needed more help than our son, but I didn't know about BPD. I admit that he has his quite particular personality, but I don't think that this would bother him too much for his further life. And I have a perfectly normal relationship with him.
To conclude: I'm responsible for the difficult relationship between our son and his mother, because I didn't send him to a coach when she felt the situation was going the wrong way. I can agree with this view, except that she needed (and still needs) far more psychological support than our son (but of course she cannot accept that). That's why I wrote that I underestimated the situation. 

[Notwendy]

I'm going to offer another perspective as my teen years with BPD mother were difficult.You didn't cause the break in the teen years. The relationship with his mother began at birth. It may have appeared that is when the relationship changed but the relationship was already established and it evolved as he grew up.

Small children are completely dependent on their parents and also more controllable. During the teen years, they become more autonmous and develop their own sense of self but it's not smooth sailing. They are changing physically, dealing with hormone changes. They don't know who they are yet- but they know they are not their parents and so sometimes they reject the parent point of view until they feel more secure in their own identity. If this sounds like BPD, it does in some ways but it's a normal developmental stage that they will mature from.

IMHO, a parent needs to have good emotional regulation skills and a secure sense of self to get through their child's teen years. Even if teens are basically good kids, they will probably challenge their parents at times. I think this combination of teen ager + BPD parent is inevitably volatile.

Also, a teen has a good idea of what is acceptable behavior. It's confusing to have a parent - who still has authority over them have the kinds of BPD behavior you see as well.

Your son will mature and the relationship will continue to evolve. However, since BPD affects all relationships, this will affect this relationship as well. Admittedly, I did not like being around my mother as a teen. One way I managed was to have time out of the house- at school, at friends' houses. The pandemic would have resulted in the two of us being stuck at home together. I don't think either of us would have managed that well.

Each parent is responsible for their part in the relationship with an adult child. How your wife and son manage from here on is mostly up to them. From my own experience- even adult children want a good relationship with both parents- to the extent it is possible and with BPD it may be different than his relationship with you.  Your relationship with your son matters to him, and so how you relate to him makes a difference.

[Anonymous22]

NotWendy, I agree with you on the BPD parent and a teen child having a good amount of issues, as the BPD parent doesn't like that the child does not rely on them as much as before.  I do believe that there is another side to this, and that is when the teenager acts like a younger child around their BPD parent to "keep the peace".  My 14 (S) is exactly what you say above.  He doesn't give my H (his stepfather) the time of day and accordingly, my H doesn't give my 14 (S) the time of day...unless he is in a good mood, then he tries to be best friends with him chatting with him at a teenage level.  My 14 (SD) on the other hand, acts like a 5 year old around my H.  She runs to him at his beck and call, she tries to get into tickle fights with him, she does dumb stuff like pouring water over his head in the middle of the store for his attention, she makes sure that she is perfect with her school work (that is very important to him), she does not ever have friends over to his house, she refuses to talk to whoever he tells her not to talk to, she blames everything on someone else as to not look bad to her dad, she follows his every instruction to her...but when she is with her mom, she is a typical teenager! 

[Notwendy]

If we look at attachment styles - formed in infancy- I think a child needs to feel a secure attachment in order to act like a typical teen. I recall when my kids were teens, they thankfully were good kids overall but teens will push your buttons.

I think gender of child and parent also has an influence. All kids want attention and approval from parents. They are also deciding on who they are as a teen boy or girl. Your D has found a way to get her SD's approval. I think sons feel they need to "act like a man" even if they have a ways to go with really being one.