Can you make them feel your pain

[whoboyboyy]

Hi guys. My ex and I started talking again after a few years. She gives me no time, though she’ll say she misses me, and the days we were together. Makes jokes about not fully being able to leave me. Even told me I should come visit. Then she disappears. This has been going on since fall, she had just reached out again after a few months of nothing. She also keeps telling me she has no phone and I feel like she keeps me at a distance. It tears me up cause I can see her active and she either leaves me on read or doesn’t even read my message and it hurts. I’ve been genuine, I told her I’d love to talk again and I miss her but all I seem to be worth is a few messages a day if that. What is going on? My heart is getting torn apart over this.  I’ve told her so many times it hurts but I feel like she just says what I wanna hear, and I don’t want to make a fool of myself. Just yesterday she told me to come visit, and then left me on read over a day. It’s killing me and she is all that I can think about my heart is hurting. I really need advice. I think I upset her by telling her I figured I she hated me and wanted me dead, and told her I thought of removing the tattoo I had for her when she told me she still had my name tattooed. I've thought about it and I'm down playing the game. It's obvious she is toying with me and I hate myself for letting it drag on, I've made a total ass of myself once again, three years later. I just want to know if there is anyway to make her feel my pain, I want her to understand how worthless she made me feel and I want it to hurt her just as she hurts me. If she even replies I'm done answering I just hate this feeling. It's not fair she gets to ruin me and move on like it never happened

[HoratioX]

Okay, a few things:

1) What you're experiencing, many, many exes of people with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.) have experienced. You have genuine feelings, so they're going to be hurt. You're being sincere, so when you're lied to or manipulated, it will feel like a betrayal. You hold out hope for reconciliation because your feelings are genuine.

2) It's possible she has genuine feelings but is halting or uncertain owing to her mental illness. It's also possible she's manipulating you, getting what she wants -- attention, a knight in shining armor, knowing someone cares about her, etc. -- merely from dangling herself before you to see you react. Once she gets that, she doesn't need any more and is done until time passes and she needs that hit again. That's not an unusual pattern with people like this either.

3) It's possible she may feel the pain she's causing you, but doubtful. People with this sort of mental illness certainly can feel guilt, empathy, and the like, but that rarely if ever stops the mental illness from doing things that cause pain for others. If they're comorbid with other mental illnesses or personality disorders, like narcissistic personality disorder or even sociopathy, their capacity to feel anything resembling ordinary human warmth and empathy is diminished further. So, if your goal is to make them feel your pain, that's not likely possible. (Keep in mind, too, that they may already be in pain from their condition, and that pain may be so great, it interferes with the capacity to feel pain for others -- empathy.)

4) You certainly should discuss this situation with a professional, who may or may not agree with what I've written and who may well have much better advice. That said, I advise people to stay away from people with BPD (etc.), especially if they're exes. With someone with a healthy mental condition, it may be possible to reconcile or rekindle a past love. But with someone with BPD (etc.), it's far more likely they will merely fall back into the same toxic patterns that led to the relationship falling apart in the first place. Yes, someone with BPD (etc.) can get treatment, but BPD can't be cured. The best that can be hoped for is remission, and that takes enormous effort on their part and there are no guarantees how long it will last.

5) If you find yourself unable or unwilling to remove yourself from her sphere of influence, you may have drifted into the realm of codependency. That is, you know being with her is toxic and unhealthy, and yet you are driven to ignore your own safety and peace of mind in order to be with her. If that is the case, I'd again encourage you to consult a therapist. It's certainly normal to yearn for love and to remember the good times with someone. But once we're aware of how damaging such a relationship can be, we should be able to stay away from it, painful as that might be at first.

Whatever your choose, good luck to you. Don't put yourself down or feel foolish. You're human. Focus on getting better.

[seekingtheway]

That kind of behaviour does hurt, and it should hurt - it's cruel and disregards you, your experience and the hurt you've already expressed to her.

I totally get why you want her to witness and understand what she's doing to you, and that you would have hope for her to care enough to stop it and do something to make it better. But she's unfortunately operating from a different lens than you, and it sounds like she's unable to take accountability or change what she's doing. Her behaviour serves her in some way, so she might keep going with it indefinitely if she is allowed to.

It has preoccupied me at times as well, this idea that I want my ex to see what he did and make it right - I have at times really wanted him to see the full impact of his behaviour, but I think that even if that did happen, it wouldn't take the pain away - the wounds would still be there. The relationship wouldn't suddenly work, they wouldn't suddenly be a different person, and I would still have a ton of inner work to do to heal from the neglect and chaos, which can cause anxiety/pain/confusion/attachment trauma.

I tend to think that time and space without pressure is one of the only ways that people feel safe enough to reflect on their own behaviour, so weirdly, this may actually be your best shot in terms of wanting her to actually feel the consequences of her own patterns. Staying in the cycle enables it to continue, but stepping out of the cycle, protecting yourself and starving her of power in your life will create a void that she will feel one way or another.

Having said all that, it sounds like you need spaces where you can express your hurt... and you're very welcome here to keep venting and letting it out. I can hear the anguish in your words, and I've been there at times too, so I am feeling for you.

[whoboyboyy]

Okay, a few things:

1) What you're experiencing, many, many exes of people with BPD (or CPTSD, anxiety, etc.) have experienced. You have genuine feelings, so they're going to be hurt. You're being sincere, so when you're lied to or manipulated, it will feel like a betrayal. You hold out hope for reconciliation because your feelings are genuine.

2) It's possible she has genuine feelings but is halting or uncertain owing to her mental illness. It's also possible she's manipulating you, getting what she wants -- attention, a knight in shining armor, knowing someone cares about her, etc. -- merely from dangling herself before you to see you react. Once she gets that, she doesn't need any more and is done until time passes and she needs that hit again. That's not an unusual pattern with people like this either.

3) It's possible she may feel the pain she's causing you, but doubtful. People with this sort of mental illness certainly can feel guilt, empathy, and the like, but that rarely if ever stops the mental illness from doing things that cause pain for others. If they're comorbid with other mental illnesses or personality disorders, like narcissistic personality disorder or even sociopathy, their capacity to feel anything resembling ordinary human warmth and empathy is diminished further. So, if your goal is to make them feel your pain, that's not likely possible. (Keep in mind, too, that they may already be in pain from their condition, and that pain may be so great, it interferes with the capacity to feel pain for others -- empathy.)

4) You certainly should discuss this situation with a professional, who may or may not agree with what I've written and who may well have much better advice. That said, I advise people to stay away from people with BPD (etc.), especially if they're exes. With someone with a healthy mental condition, it may be possible to reconcile or rekindle a past love. But with someone with BPD (etc.), it's far more likely they will merely fall back into the same toxic patterns that led to the relationship falling apart in the first place. Yes, someone with BPD (etc.) can get treatment, but BPD can't be cured. The best that can be hoped for is remission, and that takes enormous effort on their part and there are no guarantees how long it will last.

5) If you find yourself unable or unwilling to remove yourself from her sphere of influence, you may have drifted into the realm of codependency. That is, you know being with her is toxic and unhealthy, and yet you are driven to ignore your own safety and peace of mind in order to be with her. If that is the case, I'd again encourage you to consult a therapist. It's certainly normal to yearn for love and to remember the good times with someone. But once we're aware of how damaging such a relationship can be, we should be able to stay away from it, painful as that might be at first.

Whatever your choose, good luck to you. Don't put yourself down or feel foolish. You're human. Focus on getting better.

 

Thank you, I felt foolish after posting this, She left me on read after finally telling me we should hang out. It hurt my feelings, she's been popping in and out of my life since October. I ended up lashing out on her and told her the way she treats me makes me sick and I envy her lack of feelings. I regretted it instantly, It's not who I am to act like that. I ended up apologizing, I told her I just struggle to trust her and it's not fair to her. That I'll leave her alone now and I guess hurt feelings I thought I had buried from the lies she told me in the past bubbled up. I wish things could be different but it's complicated. I'm gonna try to work on myself now. I feel like I've made no progress the past 3 years of no contact now.

[whoboyboyy]

That kind of behaviour does hurt, and it should hurt - it's cruel and disregards you, your experience and the hurt you've already expressed to her.

I totally get why you want her to witness and understand what she's doing to you, and that you would have hope for her to care enough to stop it and do something to make it better. But she's unfortunately operating from a different lens than you, and it sounds like she's unable to take accountability or change what she's doing. Her behaviour serves her in some way, so she might keep going with it indefinitely if she is allowed to.

It has preoccupied me at times as well, this idea that I want my ex to see what he did and make it right - I have at times really wanted him to see the full impact of his behaviour, but I think that even if that did happen, it wouldn't take the pain away - the wounds would still be there. The relationship wouldn't suddenly work, they wouldn't suddenly be a different person, and I would still have a ton of inner work to do to heal from the neglect and chaos, which can cause anxiety/pain/confusion/attachment trauma.

I tend to think that time and space without pressure is one of the only ways that people feel safe enough to reflect on their own behaviour, so weirdly, this may actually be your best shot in terms of wanting her to actually feel the consequences of her own patterns. Staying in the cycle enables it to continue, but stepping out of the cycle, protecting yourself and starving her of power in your life will create a void that she will feel one way or another.

Having said all that, it sounds like you need spaces where you can express your hurt... and you're very welcome here to keep venting and letting it out. I can hear the anguish in your words, and I've been there at times too, so I am feeling for you.

I appreciate it, if you read my other comment I ended up lashing out on her cause I thought she blocked me. We talk on messenger and I've never had a facebook until this year. It's humiliating I made up a problem and lashed out, but I guess it was deeper than that, she's been popping in and out of my life like a revolving door all year, telling me she misses me and wishes we could talk, she has no phone, but she would talk to me 24/7 if she could. I just can't believe her, the last words she said to me in 2022 were that she doesn't miss me at all and to kill myself. She found someone new in like a week and I struggle to let anyone close now, years later. I ended up apologizing and telling her I'll leave her alone. Part of me wants her to reply, but part of me also knows I should try and heal. I wouldn't even wish this torment on my worst enemy . I don't even want revenge anymore she's told me she's been arrested and beaten by other men and she is using, I'm sure there is enough pain in her life.