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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Suggestions on How To Maintain My Composure?  (Read 463 times)
Healthy88
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« on: February 11, 2017, 11:23:16 PM »

Tomorrow uBPD H & I are having a face to face chat about our future, financial arrangements, living situations, etc. Then going out for an early V-Day dinner with kids. I don't want it to get heated because I want to have a nice dinner and family time afterwards. I believe I am painted black right now. His thinking seems to be very distorted rt now as well. From comments he has made, I am realizing because I am currently financially dependent on him, that I don't really have any say in anything anymore. Our marriage has turned from me being a fairly strong wife, anchor and planner for our future and the kids' best interest into what looks like is heading into a dictatorship.

He never struck me as the type of guy who wanted a dormat for a wife, but I have been trying to put myself back together after he left this last time and told me he never wants to live with me again. I have never had anyone in my life treat me the way he does. I also will admit, since I never knew he had uBPD, that I did not treat or handle him great either. I usually stood my ground and we went head to head on everything until he finally wore me out, I broke down and now still have no energy or desire to spend the rest of my life fighting with him. I am not back to full strength and confidence yet. He can still rattle my cage pretty easily, at times, even though I am trying to use the tools with him.

Not fighting with him means, sitting back listening to how he is now going to sell our dream home (with better schools for the kids), and where we will both be living. I never thought I would have no say in my life. We agreed to remain married and live separately, under different arrangements, which he has now gone back on. The worst part is that, I believe, he thinks after he sticks the kids and I where he wants us. He will then have complete freedom to do what he wants, I will still be tied down with the kids... .which I don't mind at all (they are the only blessed part in this whole situation). He also thinks because he is supporting us, I am guessing, that I will be grateful and he can have his family for Holidays or when he wants one and do whatever he pleases the rest of the time. Naturally, I may go along with this for a little while for our kids. I certainly will do whatever I believe to be in their best interest. H seems oblivious that a dictatorship isn't any type of marriage or going to work out long-term. I mean totally clueless. I don't know how to gently wake up his brain a little without upsetting him.
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2017, 03:09:06 PM »

It is very hard to find common agreed ground going forward. I find that I simply have to get on with what I feel is best without trying to convince anyone of, or sell, my view to anyone. The fact that it is different is going to be provocative. That is unavoidable, it is about not protracting the reaction rather than preventing it.

Simply put you need to be immovable in your own path forward, and show attempts to be diverted will prove fruitless, without being drawn in to being defensive. Being defensive about the unfairness of it all is when you loose your composure
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Healthy88
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 09:17:14 PM »

Thanks Waverider,

Good points. The more I think about it, H was living the way he wanted, as much as he could, while we were together anyway. This way I hopefully won't have to deal with the mistreatment on a daily basis. Being a non, I have never really cared much about what other's think anyway. Maybe one of my not so good points? I don't mean that I don't care about other people. I just don't really care if people like me or not, as long as I am true to my values.

I have said nothing to anyone (I guess I am so used to remaining silent due to trying to protect him, our marriage, our family and the kids that I just stay Mum and try to smile when out and about) so if anything has been said, it is H's point of view and how I didn't treat him right. He truly can't grasp why his constant lying is so hurtful to me. At least he admits he does lie. He denies infidelity, but they say the wife always knows and I feel pretty confident he would not pass a lie detector test on the subject (H has practically admitted to it in numerous other ways). I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone other than my own family. That has been hard on me. I think the more they see & deal with him, they are starting to pick up on some things and observe him more and more. Even though, they still treat him very kindly. Honestly, that part just makes me proud of them.

Your right, not being defensive about the unfairness is the key and just trying not to react to him. I think the hardest part is still wanting the best for the kids, which he did too at first, but now seems to have justified his new thinking to be good enough for the kids. I have never been good at settling (another one of my downsides, I guess). I would have rather remained single for life and had a career of my own, instead of marrying the wrong man. I have no desire whatsoever to ever be in a romantic r/s again with anyone after the last 20 years. I also don't really have many issues with whatever H does going forward either (when I did care I was supposedly controling, now that I don't... .I supposedly don't really care or love him). I don't believe he is capable of sustaining any healthy r/s long-term with anyone and he has made me believe there is no such thing.

My struggles are definitely with the fairness and the kids' future. The rest I should probably just smile about and say thank you for. I believe he has mostly offered the support so he can still see himself as a good guy and feel as if, he is not completely losing his family.

Actually, things shifted so we did not talk today. We did have a nice family time and dinner, though. The kids were pretty talkative. They seem to be doing better with me taking on a more submissive role (which is so not me) and not arguing with H. Not sure when we will chat now. I am sure it will be soon.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 11:52:04 AM »

You sound pretty healthy for someone in a difficult situation. Maintaining composure around pwBPD is challenging for sure. I wouldn't want to be ruled or have someone else calling all the shots in my life either.   

Choosing not to argue doesn't make you submissive - it makes you stronger than you realize. And a good mom. Are there some steps you can take to gain more financial independence from him - support from family maybe? Even the strongest people need a little help bouncing back sometimes. 
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 05:23:31 PM »

Jessica,

Thank you so much for chiming in and offering your encouragement. I really needed to hear that not arguing isn't necessarily being submissive, but a good Mom. I have been feeling pretty much like a pathetic, doormat lately who has lost all control. I really needed to hear that composure and silence can actually be strength.

Unfortunately, the person who pushed me into this and could or would help me out of it, is no longer living. My mother and brother are now in control of my way out. They are fairly tight and maybe co-dependent. Up until recently they have adored my uBPD H and enjoy using him to get what they want. They see me as the difficult one because I am not a pleaser and have boundaries (not that anyone in my life respects them). Unless, they wake up big time... .I am not going to get much support any which way from them. They are wonderful to my kids and I imagine will make sure they help them out, as much as they can.

Yes, in time I will have to try to gain some financial independence. Right now, the kids and I have been through so much that I just want to get strong, settled and stable for them again. I want to get the 3 of us into therapy. As long as H will support all that, I plan on letting him... .until I am back and feel kids are okay. Then I do need to really think long term. There is nothing wrong with gaining financial independence, but my divorcing H would be stupid... .unless he decides to divorce me. After all, as soon as he destroys everything, I get strong & he figures out the grass maybe isn't greener (especially with me arguing no more), I assume he will cycle back. Hopefully, that is when he will finally commit to getting the help he needs.

My kids are really confused right now and I feel need me with them more than ever to help navigate through all the changes and strangeness of their parents marriage. I hate to go back to school or work right now. I was hoping to do that once they got in HS and were getting closer to college age.

My H is like the wind. What he says today will completely change tomorrow. He is so lost right now because his anchor was an emotional mess for awhile because he was so cruel this last time and I just couldn't understand any of it. I wasn't aware of BPD so not much of the last 20 years has made any sense to me. Now, I am trying to do a speed course on everything, getting myself together enough to just go forward. This group and what I am reading has been so helpfu,l since we truly can't afford therapy until we get our finances straight. Just hoping we will all get settled by the end of the school year and the kids and I can begin therapy this summer!
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 01:52:58 PM »

I mentioned financial independence, not so you could leave him, but as a way of rebuilding some self-confidence that BPD tends to erode in us, over time. You mentioned feeling like a doormat because of it, like you've handed over power to him. I can understand that feeling as someone who was always the decision-maker before I met him. Once I let go of the wheel, the road sure got bumpy! This is one example, but there are other ways to gain independence - for me, it was about learning what the disorder is, what it's done to me, to him, to our relationship, what role I played in it, and how to make it a little smoother ride going forward. I felt liberated at last. Thought

Now when my guy dysregulates, I try to recognize it for what it is so his words will have less impact. It allows me to cool down before speaking and see the situation more objectively. So silence can be good - not as an alternative to fighting, rather the quiet inner peace of understanding what is happening in the moment - and knowing that arguing in circles with him will serve no purpose.

It takes practice, courage and strength not to react, not to control, not to right every wrong, not to "fix" anything -- especially when they are used to us reacting a certain way. This is how we've given them power. Doesn't mean we were weak. It's something that happened, slowly and subtly, over time. We're only human. It is definitely a strength to now recognize what you're dealing with and try different techniques to change the dynamics from unhealthy to healthy.

The more you discover about BPD, the more you will see a lot of your old self returning to that strong, happy, confident, healthy person with good boundaries again... and this will put you in a better position to help your children thru all this.
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waverider
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 12:28:38 AM »

A submissive partner has more power than the dominant one. As it is their choice to either give, or take away, control to the other. The dominant can only hold this position if the submissive gives it to them. Hence the real power resides with the submissive

The only hurdle is the submissive's inability to grasp this concept. This is what those who actively live a BDSM lifestyle understand hence it is not abuse of authority in those relationships.

It is better to think of it as aiming to be passive and unaffected, rather than winner/loser.
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 12:39:01 AM »

Jessica,

Thanks so much again for sharing some of your story with me and the encouragement.

I think that I am still very early in the learning about BPD phase and just realizing why very little of my marriage or H has ever made any sense to me has been very helpful. I wish I had known years ago so I could have reacted differently and seen if that changed anything. I am not sure how much it will now because he is so set in his ways.

I have focused pretty solely on him and my children (both with some medical issues), until I finally broke down. I did lose a lot of confidence over all these years. It is slowly returning with the increase in knowledge and taking better physical care of myself. I still need to find healthy emotional outlets. Eventually, as the kids get older, I agree that a focus of some sort of my own will be emensley helpful... .and financial independence wouldn't hurt, even while remaining married. I see your point there as well.

I was thinking about going back to school and getting a job about a year ago, before I broke, but I think that was more to break free from all of this than try to work with him in some way. Now, I think it may be better for the kids if I try to find ways to make things healthier, if possible, and remain with their father.

Through all of this, I have wondered if God was preparing me for something in advance. If H will have a heart attack or something will happen and He is just getting me stronger now rather than after the fact. I don't mean that in a bad way about H.' Like if the day will come, when I can look back on all of this and finally understand why it was part of my path.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 12:47:35 AM »

Bless you Waverider,

I have never associated submissiveness with strength before. I appreciate both of you coaching me on this. It does take a heck of a lot more control to hold back, observe and understand than merely to react emotionally. Obviously, standing my ground and going head to head has gotten me nowhere, but exhausted.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 11:16:24 AM »

Keep in mind you could see "extinction bursts". You can read more about it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0


For every action, there's a reaction---> as you change yours, he's forced to adapt. This takes time, and likely he will resist at first. He is used to you reacting/standing your ground. This helped him for many years regulate his own emotions as yours were thrown into turmoil. The unhealthy dynamic began long ago. Once you stop giving him this "reward" he may try even harder to provoke you, to get you to react in the familiar way he's used to. Don't fall for it. Stay the course. If you see his behaviors worsen as you react less, know that this might actually be a sign of progress! I wish I had known about this early on, but better late than never!

You can validate his discomfort with this new dynamic (without telling him what you're doing differently). He's suddenly having to find new ways to cope - healthier, but new, and therefore scary and uncomfortable. Be consistent and validate his feelings. That will go a long way. The rest is up to him. Best of luck 
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waverider
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 12:02:34 AM »

Keep in mind you could see "extinction bursts". You can read more about it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0


For every action, there's a reaction---> as you change yours, he's forced to adapt. This takes time, and likely he will resist at first. He is used to you reacting/standing your ground. This helped him for many years regulate his own emotions as yours were thrown into turmoil. The unhealthy dynamic began long ago. Once you stop giving him this "reward" he may try even harder to provoke you, to get you to react in the familiar way he's used to. Don't fall for it. Stay the course. If you see his behaviors worsen as you react less, know that this might actually be a sign of progress! I wish I had known about this early on, but better late than never!

You can validate his discomfort with this new dynamic (without telling him what you're doing differently). He's suddenly having to find new ways to cope - healthier, but new, and therefore scary and uncomfortable. Be consistent and validate his feelings. That will go a long way. The rest is up to him. Best of luck 

This is important when they sense a change in the status quo it can initiate a sense of insecurity, even if that change is creating more stability. The fact that it is a change triggers alarms. As a result they can start throwing in curly tests to see if it represents anything bad for them.
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 04:07:01 AM »

Ok coaches here is what has happened the last 2 days. We were supposed to talk again yesterday. H had a bad day at work & called to say he didn't want to talk. I wasn't thrilled he cancelled again, but did not react. He continued to vent to me about his day, during his entire drive home. I just listened. When he got as much out as he wanted, he changed the subject by asking how I was. I said a few things, but not much because I didn't want to overwhelm him anymore than he already was.  He had offered to do something for me and forgot. He apologized (usually never does) and took care of it right away. End of our interactions for this day.

Today, well now yesterday actually, I called H on his drive home to ask him a quick question or two. When done, I made the mistake of asking how his day had gone compared to the bad one the day before. H said it was rough also, but went to bed early the night before and was more prepared to handle it. I have read they often do well in a highly structured work environment. His boss was out of town for a family emergency, which left him doing everything and then contractors were showing up unannounced to do work in the facility & when he called corporate to find out what they were scheduled to do, no one answered. Sounded out of routine, pretty frustrating and stressful. Of course, what I was thinking is, if you don't like it when stuff is unstructured and unannounced at work, why do you do that to me and our home every time you walk through the front door per no schedule. H couldn't handle it when people do that to him at his job, but he does it to me every day at my job (the house & kids).

Well, yesterday after his rough day and doing me the favor... .I thanked him and told him I loved him. It was in front of the kids and he responded with a rude snarl. For most of the last 13 years, he has either not responded or just responded with an arrogant thank you. Of course he did tell me after our first child was born, it was a difficult twin pregnancy and we lost one twin at the very end, that he loved me... .but wasn't in love with me anymore. I thought great he is finally maturing and leaving infatuation love and growing into a healthy mature love (which I basically said to him). I think he cheated for awhile after the kids came and what he was really saying was I don't love you anymore so I feel fine cheating on you.

Ok, just wanted you to understand when he stopped responding and why I think he did. Now back to yesterday. I gently asked him if he would prefer that I not tell him I love him, since his responses seem to be rude back to me. He said that he doesn't know how to respond because he feels numb. He admitted, in an angry exchange last month, that of course he feels empty inside a year after losing his father. He went on to say he has now lost both parents and has a lot of reason to feel empty inside. Naturally, confirming I am on the right path with his uBPD. He said he was just trying to be honest with me (why is he honest with the mean stuff, yet lies about everything else?) and knows he loves me because I am the mother of his children (trying to remind himself he does, I guess?) and he knows it hurts me when he doesn't respond... .but he doesn't know how to or how I want him to respond.

Well, I was in complete shock. First, he realized what he was feeling (numb) and was clearly able to communicate that. Secondly, he was honest about something. Thirdly, he acknowledged that I had feelings and he knew he was hurting my feelings. I didn't know how to respond and that probably should have been a teachable moment, but I was just pretty speachless & shocked. All, I said was do you think the way you are feeling has anything to do with your father's death. He didn't think so because he had a better understanding of death now, unlike when he was younger and lost his mother. He indicated that was really hard and painful. Well, when I first realized he has uBPD, I began asking him a lot more questions about his feelings and childhood so I had already connected all the dots. I then just gently asked, if he thought his father's death brought back any of the painful memories of his mother's death? He said no and then well, he didn't think so. I just let it go.

I am just trying to put myself back together after a really rough year and don't have the strength right now to be his therapist too. I just wish he would commit to long term therapy and/or meds, if needed. He apologized, he showed some insight, for the first time ever... .he acknowledged I have feelings that are separate from his, etc.  I was so proud of him. I felt like a Mom whose child just took his first step.

I don't know if it really means anything at all? I hate that he thinks feeling empty and numb is normal. I also know I don't have the strength right now to get better myself, take care of the kids and walk him through all of this, even if from a separate home. At least I don't think I do. I just want some time and space for the kids and I to heal. I imagine in time, I would regain the strength to help him too... .if he really wants it.

I guess I am mostly just really confused right now and don't know what I should have said or how I should have handled the situation.

All suggestions and/or comments will be so appreciated.
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 02:25:24 PM »

Oh, and as far as his extinction bursts. He went off on me once the beginning of this month and one child, before I started using the tools. By his own self report he went off with some people at work on Wed, the dentist last month and the family dr in Nov or Dec. With less contact with me, he seems to target someone else. Hopefully, just not the kids much. Awhile back they started calling him the Tin Man at work, which must upset him since he mentioned it.
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2017, 02:33:56 PM »

I think you did wonderful.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Your responses were validating, supportive. You didn't engage in any kind of battles that I could see. Even helped him with some introspection without causing a meltdown.

You did good showing empathy. You know how it feels to have things "unannounced" like he dealt with at work. Yet, you didn't throw it in his face that he does that to you all the time. Instead, you listened, validated. That takes strength... .and patience. Strength to hold back initially, and patience to listen to him drone on and on! Once validated, his emotions stabilized and he was able to acknowledge your feelings, and even apologize and admit regrets about hurting you. I'd say that's progress! I'd also caution that he could still backslide. Change takes time. It's often 1 step forward, 10 steps back. So... .stay the course. You're doing well! 

Don't forget yourself in all this! You have feelings too and need healing. Work on soothing yourself. The more you do this, the better you will feel. The better you feel, the less likely you are to react if he does backslide into old ways. But the end goal is YOU feeling better. For you. Because you deserve it 
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2017, 02:40:06 PM »

Oh, and as far as his extinction bursts. He went off on me once the beginning of this month and one child, before I started using the tools. By his own self report he went off with some people at work on Wed, the dentist last month and the family dr in Nov or Dec. With less contact with me, he seems to target someone else. Hopefully, just not the kids much. Awhile back they started calling him the Tin Man at work, which must upset him since he mentioned it.

Yup. When mine could no longer blame, scapegoat or rage at me (because of the tools and boundaries), he found new targets - esp at work! The more I validated him, the less he wanted to attack me. And when he did, I used a boundary to disengage (leaving/hanging up). I used to feel bad for those he lashed out at because he couldn't do it to me anymore. But in the end, that was their problem. Mine was to take care of me. Yours is to take care you and the kids. Don't worry about how he treats anyone else.
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 04:26:37 PM »

I decided to follow up with an email stating I realize how hard it is for men to share their emotions - especially with male friends (not that he really has any), particularly in a culture where they are taught doing so isn't strong. I told him I totally disagree with that, think it is unhealthy, and am trying to teach our son the opposite.

Then I praised him for recognizing his feelings and being able to communicate them so clearly to me. I also told him that I hate that he often feels numb and empty. I added that I honestly believe with all my heart that if he would work with a good therapist for a year or two (and be open to meds, if needed) that he could get to the route of those feelings and not feel like that anymore. I asked wouldn't that feel great?

Then I said that they are his feelings, it is his life and his choice.

He knows I am working on myself, my issues and r/s skills, I call them. I admitted that if I had better skills earlier on, I may have been able to do better from my side of things. He can't be totally shocked or confused, if he feels the dynamic is changing. I have tried to be as honest about all of that as I can be with him so it isn't as scary for him.

I spoke with him briefly about something else today and he did not seem mad, if he even read the email.

I just keep trying to lay seeds, when it seems ok to do so and then let it go. Actually, that is how my father used to handle me. I would bring the topic back up after I had given it some thought and was ready to talk about it. Will see if this strategy works better with H too versus standing my ground?
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 05:16:52 PM »

I just keep trying to lay seeds, when it seems ok to do so and then let it go. Actually, that is how my father used to handle me. I would bring the topic back up after I had given it some thought and was ready to talk about it. Will see if this strategy works better with H too versus standing my ground?

That's a good tactic.

How are things right now?
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