My wife is refusing to let my mother visit or see the grandchildren…

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi all,

I have been a member of bpd fam for over four years and have seen much improvement in my communications and marriage. I am a married lesbian with a bpdw and four small children (D5, D4, S2, and baby S 9 mths). These children were conceived via ivf with my wife’s eggs and anonymous donor. My wife carried all of these pregnancies. Legally the children are half mine as we did the ivf together and I’m on their birth certificates.

I have rarely posted in this conflicted board, and usually on the bettering board. I want this marriage to work out because I want us to raise our family together (that’s not the same as “staying together for the sake of the children”.) I have posted about this exact topic in the other board but didn’t get anywhere with it.

My wife has always had a strained relationship with my family, particularly my mother. We live 6 hour’s drive away from her now and my mother is 80, and we recently lost my Dad. We have come to a point where my wife is refusing to let my Mum see the children under any circumstances. This is not about not wanting her to stay with us, or even my wife not wanting to see Mum. She has got such an issue with my mother that nothing is negotiable for seeing the children. The issue is that my Mum is not interested enough in my wife, does not make enough effort with her… basically permanently split on her. I have tried to get Mum to understand bpdw, taught her about validation etc. I think Mum feels that she is never going to see these kids again so what’s the point in making an effort with someone who is so selfish, cruel, and impossible. Two examples which have been the final straw for my wife: One day a few months ago my wife texted Mum to say she was very sick in hospital. Mum opened the message but didn’t reply for a few hours, saying she was doing Zumba. Today, my wife texted Mum to say she’s looking at a new pet rabbit as one of our two rabbits sadly died last weekend and the other is missing her. Mum just said, why are you getting a new rabbit? Haven’t you got enough on your plate? Then they had a big falling out and Mum ended up saying, I don’t know why you told me about this. I am frustrated that Mum could not respond positively to my wide reaching out, but of course she is elderly now, and also grieving.

I am thoroughly broken by this situation. I know that, were I to split up with my wife then I would legally be able to be granted permission to take the kids to see my mother. But as a married person with a controlling wife… no there’s no hope. She has said that she would take the kids out if my mother came round. She would lock us out of the house, do all manner of things to prevent her from seeing them, things which would emotionally upset the children.

I hate myself for allowing this situation. My wife knows how upset I am. She knows I think it’s morally wrong and disgusting. She knows I resent her over it though I haven’t voiced this, but used this evening as an excuse to have a huge rant over her mother inviting herself whenever she wants. My wife feels so strongly that she has said (and I believe her) that she will also not let her mother visit if that’s what I wanted. I said I would never do that… because it is wrong. My wife has terrible role models as her father has disowned both of her sisters and his own mother.

I feel so ashamed. I don’t want to give up my marriage over this. I even mentioned that I’d have more rights if we were divorced and of course my wife loved that as she often talks about us getting divorced. But by and large we’re getting along these days, and the kids seem to be pretty mentally stable and strong despite everything. I have said it breaks my heart to think my mother will die one day and I’ll feel so guilty for all of this.

I would appreciate any thoughts. Thank you.

[thankful person]

Hi all,

I have been a member of bpd fam for over four years and have seen much improvement in my communications and marriage. I am a married lesbian with a bpdw and four small children (D5, D4, S2, and baby S 9 mths). These children were conceived via ivf with my wife’s eggs and anonymous donor. My wife carried all of these pregnancies. Legally the children are half mine as we did the ivf together and I’m on their birth certificates.

I have rarely posted in this conflicted board, and usually on the bettering board. I want this marriage to work out because I want us to raise our family together (that’s not the same as “staying together for the sake of the children”.) I have posted about this exact topic in the other board but didn’t get anywhere with it.

My wife has always had a strained relationship with my family, particularly my mother. We live 6 hour’s drive away from her now and my mother is 80, and we recently lost my Dad. We have come to a point where my wife is refusing to let my Mum see the children under any circumstances. This is not about not wanting her to stay with us, or even my wife not wanting to see Mum. She has got such an issue with my mother that nothing is negotiable for seeing the children. The issue is that my Mum is not interested enough in my wife, does not make enough effort with her… basically permanently split on her. I have tried to get Mum to understand bpdw, taught her about validation etc. I think Mum feels that she is never going to see these kids again so what’s the point in making an effort with someone who is so selfish, cruel, and impossible. Two examples which have been the final straw for my wife: One day a few months ago my wife texted Mum to say she was very sick in hospital. Mum opened the message but didn’t reply for a few hours, saying she was doing Zumba. Today, my wife texted Mum to say she’s looking at a new pet rabbit as one of our two rabbits sadly died last weekend and the other is missing her. Mum just said, why are you getting a new rabbit? Haven’t you got enough on your plate? Then they had a big falling out and Mum ended up saying, I don’t know why you told me about this. I am frustrated that Mum could not respond positively to my wide reaching out, but of course she is elderly now, and also grieving.

I am thoroughly broken by this situation. I know that, were I to split up with my wife then I would legally be able to be granted permission to take the kids to see my mother. But as a married person with a controlling wife… no there’s no hope. She has said that she would take the kids out if my mother came round. She would lock us out of the house, do all manner of things to prevent her from seeing them, things which would emotionally upset the children.

I hate myself for allowing this situation. My wife knows how upset I am. She knows I think it’s morally wrong and disgusting. She knows I resent her over it though I haven’t voiced this, but used this evening as an excuse to have a huge rant over her mother inviting herself whenever she wants. My wife feels so strongly that she has said (and I believe her) that she will also not let her mother visit if that’s what I wanted. I said I would never do that… because it is wrong. My wife has terrible role models as her father has disowned both of her sisters and his own mother.

I feel so ashamed. I don’t want to give up my marriage over this. I even mentioned that I’d have more rights if we were divorced and of course my wife loved that as she often talks about us getting divorced. But by and large we’re getting along these days, and the kids seem to be pretty mentally stable and strong despite everything. I have said it breaks my heart to think my mother will die one day and I’ll feel so guilty for all of this.

I would appreciate any thoughts. Thank you.

[ForeverDad]

Laws vary from state to states, and even from country to country, some jurisdictions granting grandparents some rights to have contact with the grandchildren, others less so.  So if it comes down to a legal matter, you would do well to learn which rights your Mum has as applicable in your area of residence.

I wish I had other ideas less draconian, so hopefully others will also respond with strategies that might work.

[Notwendy]

I'm sorry you are in this situation- sorry for you, your kids and your mother. I don't have a solution to offer. Since each situation is different, a first approach can be on the bettering board- how much can we do to improve our part of the relationship, but it doesn't change the other person's mental illness- and that can also vary in severity. For some situations "bettering" is enough. Know though that wherever you post- on bettering or conflicted- we don't post run messages, we don't tell a poster what to do. This is your relationship to decide on no matter where you post.

I experienced growing up in a family similar to this. Yes, thankfully we kids turned out "OK"- by OK meaning we don't have a mental illness, or serious behavioral issues, but that doesn't mean we were not affected by the situation or that there wasn't collateral damage in other aspects- financially to my father, relationships with extended family.

There is a cost/benefit to being in a relationship with a severely mentally disordered person. When the costs exceed the benefit, then the relationship becomes in question. However, the cost/benefits are individual and can vary, even if the cost appears to be extraordinarily high at times.

I didn't know all that my father had to consider in his relationship. Whatever the "cost" to him of this relationship, it didn't seem high enough for him to take action. On the other hand, there's a cost to leaving as well. Perhaps at the time, this seemed worse to him. These are complicated decisions.

If his decision was to stay married no matter what, then whatever feelings anyone else had about it that was just collateral damage. From your posts, I think so far, your decision is similar- to stay married no matter what. Unfortunately, this is one of the "what". Please know, I am not trying to shame you or make this hurtful in any way. It happened in my family too, and yet to go against my mother's wishes also had unwanted consequences.

I understand your mother's perspective. She has tried. However, none of her efforts seem to be good enough for your wife. Eventually one gets discouraged and less motivated to try. I felt like this too. It's demoralizing to try to fix things and not have them be enough. Eventually, other family members realize there's not much we can do to change the situation and also manage as best we can.

[CC43]

Hi Thankful,

I'm sorry you are in this situation.  It's very sad that the kids have a grandma who wants to have a relationship with them, but your spouse is preventing that from happening.

When I read your post, my first thought was, the situation has little to do with your mom in my opinion.  It seems to me that your spouse is trying to find reasons to alienate her, such as "excessive slowness" in responding to a text.  Her reasons probably aren't rational, but rather reflect her distorted BPD thinking patterns.  Maybe your spouse wants to exert control, as she feels out of control, and this is her way of claiming it back.  Maybe she fears she'll be upstaged by grandma, and the kids will temporarily turn their love in her direction, which she would find devastating.  Maybe she's just trying to hurt YOU, knowing that alienating grandma will irk you.  Maybe she thinks that the kids are exclusively "hers," and she's indirectly reminding you of that by controlling where they go and whom they see at all times.  Maybe she doesn't want any visitors at all, because she can't handle it when things don't go exactly as she planned.  Maybe she doesn't want grandma to see the kids because that would be joyful, and she can't bear to see others be joyful, as it reminds her that she is not.  Maybe it's a little of everything, or maybe her reasoning changes as quickly as her moods.  Sadly, with BPD, the "rationale" is dependent on moods (which are overwhelmingly negative and judgmental), and not on priorities such as family togetherness and compromise for the sake of a happy household.

I have pwBPD and a pwNPD in my life, and they try to be uber controlling, often in bizarre ways.  I've learned that if I cave in to their demands and generally go about life walking on eggshells, it only engenders even more irrational, unfair demands on me.  If I go ahead and "deliberately disobey" their orders, or fail to do as they demand, I know I'm going to face a meltdown.  So what I do is, I examine my priorities, and I decide to live with the meltdowns.  So for example, if there's a family funeral, I'm attending whether my pwBPD likes it or not.  If there's a reunion with old friends, I'm attending whether my pwBPD likes it or not.  In other words, I don't actively try to antagonize my pwBPD, but at the same time, I don't let their irrational fears and demands totally hijack my life, either.  Predictably, they will have a meltdown when I don't do exactly what they expect, but I let them have the meltdown!  Generally I give them a time out, (time and space to cool off).  Typically, the next day they will pretend that nothing happened, because they know darn well that I was living a normal adult's life (such as attending a family funeral).  And I feel saddened that I have to witness such meltdowns, but the sadness is worth it because I don't feel alienated from family, friends and a "normal" adult life.  I guess your issue would be that the children could witness the meltdowns, and that could be scary and destabilizing.

Just my thoughts.  I feel for you.

[Notwendy]

Hi Thankful,


When I read your post, my first thought was, the situation has little to do with your mom in my opinion. 

Her reasons probably aren't rational, but rather reflect her distorted BPD thinking patterns. 

I guess your issue would be that the children could witness the meltdowns, and that could be scary and destabilizing.

I agree, it isn't rational and isn't about your mother. I don't think it's possible to explain something irrational.

It was extremely difficult to say no to my mother or go against her wishes. It takes a lot of emotional energy to withstand the meltdown, and it sometimes wasn't just a meltdown. Even though it was difficult to oppose her, it was relatively easier to do since I didn't live with her, but my father did- and so the consequences were more for him if he did.

I do agree that giving in, walking on eggshells only reinforces their behavior, and their control- which I think makes things worse in the long run. In the moment though, there's only so much a person can manage, being the wage earner, financially keeping the family afloat, doing the childcare and meeting the emotional needs of a disordered spouse- there may not be the emotional reserve to deal with the consequences of going against the pwBPD's wishes.

So it becomes a choice of who it is easier to say "no" to, and that is whoever else is in the conflicting situation, those who don't have BPD, and who aren't going to escalate. It may not be fair to them, it may be hurtful and go against your ethical standards but in survival mode one does what they can in the moment to avoid an escalation.