My wife is refusing to let my mother visit or see the grandchildren…

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Posted before finishing

You have invested a lot in the marriage and you have seen the results of that investment. The bettering board proposes this as a first attempt and perhaps in some milder cases, the situation improves enough to be manageable. As FD said, it is a continuous reassessment.

At some point, it's possible to look at the results of efforts and see how much they have helped. If the person is more severely affected and the behaviors aren't tolerable, it may be that the relationship isn't workable or has reached the limits of workable. Each person has to decide what that means for them.

[Notwendy]

Posted before finishing

You have invested a lot in the marriage and you have seen the results of that investment. The bettering board proposes this as a first attempt and perhaps in some milder cases, the situation improves enough to be manageable. As FD said, it is a continuous reassessment.

At some point, it's possible to look at the results of efforts and see how much they have helped. If the person is more severely affected and the behaviors aren't tolerable, it may be that the relationship isn't workable or has reached the limits of workable. Each person has to decide what that means for them.

[PeteWitsend]

...

I am working and my wife is not. She is due to start college next week though. ...

Careful with this; college could be an excuse to avoid work, and a very expensive one for you if you're getting stuck with the costs of her college education on top of all your household expenses.  I've seen people in my life stretch college or graduate school out for years and yet when they graduate they're STILL nothing but a burden on someone else, but now with the added "bonus" of all the debt they accrued while in school. 

Your situation is as complicated as any other with young kids involved, and while it may seem overwhelming to think of a way to separate and make it work, note that you don't have to; a court typically does that.  I think this is why seeing an attorney for a consultation is so worth it.  They can explain to you the local rules and the likely outcome of your case.  This does wonders for your peace of mind & takes away the scariness of the threats around divorce pwBPD love to make. 

At least where I live, the standard divorce outcome was not too bad & it was helpful to have seen an attorney and gotten this advice b/c what my then-BPD-wife was telling me what would happen in a divorce amounted to a fantasy world of what she wanted to happen not what the law would determine. 

You don't have to figure it all out at once; break it into steps and figure those out in turn.  Get legal advice, explore living options for the separation, etc. get your own bank account separate from the soon-to-be-ex's, etc. 

And at the same time, preparing for divorce doesn't mean you have to go through with it.   You can work on bettering the relationship for as long as it lasts.  And if things do improve and you're content enough to stay, then you can stay!  Consider preparing for the divorce as an insurance policy though, insurance against ensuring that you're not trapped in an unhealthy or unsafe situation simply because you don't know how to get out. 

Just be mindful that your preparations remain secret! 

[ForeverDad]

Just be mindful that your preparations remain secret!

This is where I often step up and remind our members that we all, each of us, have rights to our privacy and confidentiality.  That includes our future options and future decisions.  It's not being mean, it's being wise and smart.

How so?  Sharing too much information can - and will - be used against us.  That's just the nature of an acting-out disorder such as BPD.  If sharing too much information beyond typical necessary parenting matters has a potential to expose us to being sabotaged now or in the future, then wisdom dictates that we avoid divulging sensitive information, either when being manipulated or by guilting or by interrogations.

It may sounds strange to put it that bluntly, but many here sabotaged themselves by sharing too much information.  I explain this so you are forewarned and prepared.

On a related thought, if she has sought to finance college by having you co-sign loans, what that would mean is that if she never repaid them, then you'd be responsible to repay them.  From a practical perspective - for yourself and for the parenting of your children - do try to limit your financial exposure since presently you are not confident your marriage has a solid future.  For example, if she seek for your to guarantee a loan for her them you could limit your agreement to one year increments.  Or that doing so would require her to acquiesce to grandmother contact?  (In other words, you give a little and she gives a little.)

[thankful person]

Thank you all, I am considering very carefully everything that has been said on here. I am stuck on leaving the playground so the bully doesn’t win.. isn’t that what the bully wanted? I don’t know honestly. I had a lot of trouble with bullies. I need to remember that it seems my wife does need me with her ringing three times a day for the duration of my availability, and saying she can’t put the kids to bed without my help.(I also get them up in the morning).

PW, I understand your concerns. The government is loaning the money to put w through college, I am not responsible for that. I am hoping that the experience will help with her mental health. I know that pwbpd do not just “get better” especially without therapy. But my wife has sat on the sofa breast feeding for 6 years!!! She needs to get out and gain some confidence. I really want this for her. She has no qualifications and no friends. I’m rooting for her partly because she’s that crazy she might even change her mind about my Mum once she’s feeling happier.

I will try and get some legal advice in the little free time I have. I’ll try to go against my instinct to be honest and keep my wife informed at every step. I don’t want to serve her divorce papers and be like, “I really didn’t want to do this, I just want the children to see Granny!” It sounds ridiculous but it’s how I feel…

[Notwendy]

Thank you all, I am considering very carefully everything that has been said on here. I am stuck on leaving the playground so the bully doesn’t win.. isn’t that what the bully wanted? I don’t know honestly. I had a lot of trouble with bullies. I need to remember that it seems my wife does need me with her ringing three times a day for the duration of my availability, and saying she can’t put the kids to bed without my help.(I also get them up in the morning).

,

This is just a guess- as I can't predict what your wife wants or will do, but in my situation, what the "bully" wanted was control, not leaving. Like your wife, she could not have managed on her own. She was dependent on my father as your wife is on you.

This was a paradox. Dad earned the money, he was the more stable parent and yet, BPD mother seemed to be in control.

If the main reason is fear of your wife leaving you, it's possible that this fear is greater than what may actually happen.

For my father, there was an additional fear that could and did happen and it was the extreme reactions of my mother if people didn't go along with her.

Your wish- for your mother to see your children without rocking the boat in your marriage may not be realistic. It's weighing two consequences- one being your mother doesn't see the kids, or your wife reacts in a difficult way. These are two difficult choices.

Don't hold me to this- it's a wild guess- but I don't think your wife can manage on her own. She either may not actually leave you but if she did- I don't think it would last long. I don't think likely she'd find someone else willing to take on your role for her and the kids. Possible maybe but not so easy to do.

I'm not suggesting you bring up leaving as leverage. That isn't a helpful thing to do. However, if she threatens leaving, it might not have the leverage you fear it does.

BPD mother would bring up divorce, but I don't think she could have managed doing that.

[Notwendy]

I know that pwbpd do not just “get better” especially without therapy. But my wife has sat on the sofa breast feeding for 6 years!!! She needs to get out and gain some confidence. I really want this for her. She has no qualifications and no friends. I’m rooting for her partly because she’s that crazy she might even change her mind about my Mum once she’s feeling happier.

Another poster called this "hopium" "I know that-----but (another reason for the behavior)

and then the "she might" change her mind.

IMHO, it's this hope that if you do X, or Y happens- then that will be what leads to change. But her issues are not external. Going to school, a new house, a vacation- these are external things. They don't lead to internal changes.

So when does one not have hope? I think that is a difficult one. I think it varies. I saw this too in my own family- the hope placed on "this vacation is what we need", this ___________is what we need.

We rooted for BPD mother to have some interest and focus of her own too. She would start something but it didn't stick. She would do a volunteer job. We cheered her on. She got a certificate degree at a community college. Got almost all A's. But didn't pursue the occupation she seemed interested in doing.

She didn't have to work. Dad provided, but what we wanted for her was a focus, a sense of accomplishment. I don't know what she did all day when we were in school. We felt that not having a sense of purpose wasn't good for her but we couldn't make this happen for her.

Staying married- as you choose to do, to someone who is focused on her wants, her needs, and you have other ideas or needs- there's constant conflict. You care about your mother but you have connected your life to someone who doesn't care about her, or your relationship with her. This isn't a marriage where there's mutual consideration.

[PeteWitsend]

...

BPD mother would bring up divorce, but I don't think she could have managed doing that.

I think they do this when they aren't themselves concerned it's a possibility.  Threats of divorce become just another "tool" in the toolbox of techniques for controlling their partner and dominating the relationship for their own ends. 

The accounts here of married BPD-partners leaving and filing for divorce are rare - I can't recall any for sure.  Of the one I'm thinking of, the BPD-partner was the primary breadwinner, but I don't remember if they were actually the one who filed.  Regardless, I don't recall ever reading an acocunt here where a financially dependent BPD-spouse initiated the split and filed for divorce. 

I do recall accounts of BPD-partners leaving, but this is most often in the case of short-term relationships, where the BPD-partner was cheating and jumping for a new relationship that they  perceived as more beneficial for them.

Like you said, it would be hard for @thankful_person's spouse to find a replacement for her, given that people tend not to want to step (no pun intended) into all the responsibility of being a step parent, on top of all the other baggage a pwBPD comes with.  But it could happen. 

In my own case, BPDxw and I nearly split a year before we actually did.  We both saw attorneys, then she begged me to reconsider and for some reason I did.  But by this point I knew that I was just kicking the can down the road, and it was only a matter of time before we divorced.

In any event, it seemed like BPDxw felt more secure after that, and felt that I wouldn't ever leave her.  After that point in time, she started to use threats of divorce more frequently.  I think in her head I was now afraid to leave her, or needed her or whatever.  In the end when I was ready to leave and we had another blow up, she was actually the one who said "we're getting divorced then" in response to me refusing to take responsibility for her behavior in what was our last fight as a married couple.  She seemed pretty upset when she realized it was actually happening!  And of course, when she'd mention it to other people, most often she said that I left her because I didn't want to be a father anymore.  No mention of the fact that she was the one who laid that marker down.   

[Notwendy]

I think they do this when they aren't themselves concerned it's a possibility.  Threats of divorce become just another "tool" in the toolbox of techniques for controlling their partner and dominating the relationship for their own ends. 

It may be that this conflict with your kids seeing your mother is emotional leverage for your wife.

If my BPD mother knew I was attached to or emotionally invested in something/someone, that is what she decided to control.

As a child, it was a favorite toy, or a pet.

As an adult, it was my relationships with people, especially my father. BPD mother controlled his relationship with me.

It's also likely she controlled his relationship with his family. We were allowed to spend time with them, but when we were older and could be dropped off to visit. BPD mother didn't come with us.

In this context, divorce threats were just threats, leverage. She didn't follow through with them. She didn't want anyone to "leave the playground" - she wanted control.

The situation with your mother probably has less to do with what your mother does or doesn't do and that, you are highly invested in this. Your wife's ability to control this is a source validation for her. That it is also hurtful to others may not even occur to her or is less of a consideration.

In this context, reasoning, fairness, discussions may not convince her. This isn't a rational need. I think this needs to be a non negotiable. Just plan it and tell her it's happening (not too soon in advance so the reaction doesn't drag out). Probably best for mother to come, stay in a hotel, and you meet her there with the kids. Or you pack them up and go to your mother's. Without your wife. Don't bring your mother to your house. She probably doesn't want to be around your wife anyway.