Struggling yet again with BPD mom after trying LC

[mazje1980]

Hello, I am new here and grateful for the support.

I am 45 years old, have a 73-year old mom with what I suspect is untreated BPD. I do not live in the same state as her anymore, thankfully. The worst of the experiences happened in my 20s (age 23-30) when she would threaten suicide and blame it on me. I lived with her for a bit in total enmeshment for 2 years before going off and finding a job, a place, etc. This is when the suicide threats were the worst and I would have to call my father and grandfather (she was divorced from my father) asking them to help me. I never knew what in the hell triggered her. The shame that she felt it was my fault was so intense and so confusing. After I moved out and met my now-husband, she would continue to call me and berate me I didn't love her, and threaten suicide. Once she even pushed me out of her moving car. But all through childhood there were signs too-yet the BPD was channeled more towards my father. When I started individuating in my 20s, that's when she started targeting me. She also told me I was mentally ill, gave me her prescription drugs when she insisted I was depressed (this started when I was 16 and lasted til I was around 23.)

In my 30s after having children, I struggled being around her. My nervous system I think was totally shut down from the experiences of her threatening suicide . I tried to have friendly visits but I would often feel so triggered by her, I would start to feel angry. Not in a violent way, just in a normal way for anyone with a delicate nervous system. But she has held on to these moments and continues to refer to them when she wants to tell me how terrible I am. What made me very angry in those moments as a new mother was I could never be honest with her about anything she did that triggered me. There was one particularly bad time when she lost it on me after insisting I was mentally ill, after I had gotten upset she had said something about my career choices. She was screaming and I asked her to leave my house and go stay in a hotel. I had a new baby sleeping upstairs. I called my husband out of fear and he heard her screaming, then I had to hang up quickly because I was worried she would wake the baby. He was so worried that the called the police. The police ended up handcuffing her and taking her out of my house. I never asked the police to come. It was total confusion and chaos. But she can't let this event go.  

Now that I had children I think she thought she could take on the role of sweet grandmother and I wouldn't feel anything about what had happened between us. The police event was a turning point and she blamed it all on me. I tried to explain that it was just a terrible sequence of confusing, chaotic events. I tried therapy with her after this event-that went nowhere. She also drinks and smokes weed which makes it seem impossible to get anywhere with her. When she drinks she has left me messages telling me I'm evil, etc. They make no sense and come out of nowhere.

I've gone from NC with her to LC which I have tried recently after she threatened suicide again. She did this after she found out I invited my sister and her family to Florida, to the town where my grandparents lived and where we would visit often as children. This triggered my mom so much that I didn't invite her that she went to the ER with a suicide threat. I think it triggered me into fear and I changed the NC to LC because I feared if I didn't talk to her, she'd kill herself. So I tried calling once a month. She revealed she was doing "accelerated trauma resolution" which made me feel like she was maybe on the path to healing and understanding herself better.

The problem is, I called her recently and she was very high, or drunk. Her voice was very slurred. I asked her about the therapy and she said she had quit it, that it was too intense. Feeling brave, I asked her what memories she had been focusing on. She said she was focusing on me, and how much trauma I had caused her. This made me so angry and upset. I lost it on her which I haven't done for a long time. She then reverted into a weird performative mother mode, pathologizing me in a way that seemed familiar, trying to sound like a loving mom that wanted to make things right...but it didn't ring true...she was also drunk so of course I couldn't really take it in. But she had told me she wanted me to express myself (which was a lie...) The next few days, feeling that she had invited me to express myself, I wrote to her that I felt my autism made things a lot harder for me to process her suicide threats, and that my system had shut down and it had become really hard to feel safe around her. I said this all in a loving way. I had recently been diagnosed with autism and she didn't know about this. But she went into denial mode. "You weren't diagnosed with autism, my darling," she said (referring back to my childhood when I was sent in for diagnosis by a teacher.) She had failed to read anything I wrote. She also kept pathologizing me: "I'm so sorry you are suffering. I hope you can heal." That triggered me more....I then at the end of the texting suggested maybe next time we talk, that she doesn't drink. This totally triggered her and went into full BPD rage mode. Telling me how I'd broken her heart, that she had been so depressed because I didn't love her, she knows I don't like her, etc. I told her just to let me go if I bring her so much pain. This made it even worse: "What have I ever done to you?" It was all so strange, because she had invited me to express myself, then it turned on me...

It is so sad because I had a hope the therapy would help her, but clearly it has not. I am at a loss now what to do. The guilt of not calling her once a month, fearing it will send her into suicidality is too much to bear sometimes. But to keep going and calling her, knowing she is an untreated BPD case, is very difficult as well, as it takes such a toll on me. I try to have a higher perspective and know that I am loved by God and that none of this is true, but the wound runs deep and sometimes I don't know if it will ever be fully healed. I also have, I'm sorry to say, the hope she can pass away at some point and leave me alone. I know that is so awful and I don't wish that for her, really, but sometimes the pain is so intense it's what I turn to. Any insight or support is welcome.

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're in this mess and hopefully we can find a few words of wisdom to help you through this.

The BPDs in my life are an ex-wife and a daughter, but in hindsight I always suspected my mom as well since she would explode over the tiniest things.  And I realized that even though she wasn't diagnosed, the principles you'll learn here work whether someone has BPD or not.  So let's talk through a few of those.

First, someone with BPD has trouble with boundaries- like your mom blaming things on you and then wanting to be best friends the next day.  That's not how life works, and you need to start making that clear.  If she berates you on the phone, tell her she's being unfair and explain that you have to go and will talk to her another time.  You don't have to be mean about it either- it just has to be consistent.

For instance, she calls and starts ranting about your childhood, maybe give her one warning...mom, I don't want to talk about this.  If she continues, tell her that you're not having that conversation and you have to hang up.  That's a boundary and it's so critical to deliver it in a very predictable way every single time.

Now, your mom doesn't like boundaries, so she will not respect your wishes (at least at first).  She'll call, text, and email with suicide threats, because when she does that, you come running to give her the attention that she needs.  So that brings us to boundary #2, if mom says "suicide", you dial 9-1-1 and have her taken off in an ambulance.

Again, you do this each and every time in a very predictable way.  You scream, I'm getting off the phone.  You threaten suicide, then I'm sending emergency response.

Your mom will try to blame you and make this all about you- but go back to boundary #1.  You're not doing that anymore.  You can explain to her though that you're only reacting to her behavior and you've made your intentions very well known.  You want a relationship with her but it has to be reciprocal.  All the decisions are hers to make- be nice and have a relationship, or be ugly and have no relationship.

Again, I'm so sorry you're in this position and so many here can relate since it's very similar behavior patterns.  You mentioned until you were mid-20's, all your mom's venom went to your dad.  A better way to say that is she's needed someone to blame her entire life in order to remain a victim.  You left, just like your dad left, and you got the same amount of blame for putting yourself first.

Please continue to share and ask questions.  Hopefully this helped as a starting point.

[Notwendy]

Mazie-
I am the daughter of a now deceased BPD mother (who lived up to an advanced age). I can relate to your emotional responses to your mother. Even with our own rational thinking, a connection to God, knowing that this is a mentally ill person, even with forgiveness for them- we have a response to what has been an unpredictable and at times, scary parent.

Therapy may not have helped your mother much but it can help you. Some therapies- like EMDR can help you work on your own emotional responses but if this isn't needed- being aware of them and learning some self care for them can help. 

For some people, no contact is the better decision, if contact is emotionally unsafe. In other situations, (the one I chose)- low contact - tolerating/managing some distress- is a choice. Low contact doesn't only mean not seeing them as much. It's also the content of the contact and being less emotionally reactive.

One of the pitfalls I learned is to avoid the "invitation" to discuss issues. Think of pwBPD as feeling like victims. These discussions inevitably trigger a dysregulation, as you have seen. While in a normal situation, airing out feelings can lead to better understanding- it just doesn't work in this situation.

It's difficult to accept limitations in a relationship with a parent. I think we will always want resolution and emotional closeness. We want our parents to think well of us. However, BPD tends to affect the closest relationships the most. Your mother may not be able to respond in the way you wish she would.

During her elder years, phone calls with my mother consisted of her telling me her own feelings, mostly of disappointment with caretakers, or medical people, sharing her own emotional pain. Keep in mind that if someone is overwhelmed with their own emotional distress- sharing anything about yourself- that you have autism, that you feel hurt by her behaviors- is likely to lead to them disreguating.  It's good to have a support system for yourself- with people who can be supportive if you are in contact with your mother. A therapist, friend, spouse is a safer person to share these with.

Feeling FOG- Fear, Obligation, Guilt- these are common. Although you are not responsible for your mother's feelings- her projections and blame lead to feeling that way. Make the decision on how much contact you have based on your own emotional well being. As I said- for some people it's just too much of an emotional toll, and others can manage some limited contact. It's an individual decision. It's hard to not feel guilty about not having contact- but work with a therapist, someone who can help you manage your feelings.

[mazje1980]

Thank you so much for these replies. It certainly helps me and I will re-read and take it into consideration. All of the points are very clear and insightful.

It has been a very long road of this pattern. Today I actually feel pretty detached from what transpired a few days ago. I am able to see that the part of me that is so hurt still by her shaming of me, and living in FOG, is not my true nature. I feel less guilt too if she wants to continue living this way and blaming me. I wish she could be happier person with more stuff going on in her life so she doesn't remain so fixated with me, but I believe she is the "waif" persona of the borderline.

I also had hope in her therapy, she'd come to some revelation as to why she is the way she is. When she said it was simply me that has caused all of her trauma, it sent me over the edge in that moment and I don't blame myself. But now I can, if not laugh at it, start to feel more and more detached. As a mother to two children who I love so much, I cannot in anyway imagine myself behaving in this way towards them. If there was something really egregiously abusive coming my way from my children, I would firmly create a boundary with them (and even then, I would try to detach and see the higher perspective and continue to live my life for God and for the love I want to represent.)

But I have not done anything abusive to her, except react to her own abusiveness. Sometimes this was pent-up anger at what she took from me as a young woman, but never anything violent, just a normal person's emotional disregulation at an abusive person. (She even at one point accused me of "reactive abuse"...whatever that is?) I have become the enemy for her and that won't ever change. The victim consciousness is very intense on her end. I am seeing it now for what it is and that I don't think there's any chance for transformation, though I continue to pray for it, maybe some miracle could occur, but I don't know if I've ever heard of a borderline awakening out of their patterns.

[CC43]

Hi there,

What you have written will resonate with many people on this site.  It does sound like your mom has many behaviors typical for BPD.  My guess is that she is a very emotional and needy person.  My other guess is that she felt like she was abandoned when you carved out an independent life for yourself as a young adult; by the same token, she was probably jealous, too.  Rather than be happy and supportive of you, she tried to guilt you and beat you into submission.  She likely felt abandoned by her ex-spouse as well.

Anyway, much of what she says sounds like projection to me.  Projection is a very common phenomenon for pwBPD.  When she says she thinks you are mentally ill, that's code for what she thinks about herself (but can't bring herself to admit it or do anything to help herself).  Another feature of BPD is to play the victim--ALWAYS the victim, always blaming others for their own problems and poor choices.  By claiming you are the mentally ill one, she's implying that the difficulties in the relationship are your fault.  At the same time, that obviates the need for her to work on herself.  Does that make sense?  If you start to see and understand the projection phenomenon, it's easier not to take everything she says so personally.  But what she says still hurts nonetheless, because she's your mom.  She's supposed to be loving, and it's hard to accept that she's just too needy to be loving.  BPD thought patterns are very negative and often delusional, and she has a very hard time thinking straight.  Any substance abuse will only magnify that problem.

In addition, I think that threatening suicide is sometimes a desperate cry for help.  Sometimes it's a bid for attention, sometimes it's tactic to manipulate others, and sometimes I think it's all these factors mixed together.  If your mom has gone "nuclear," then my advice would be to call 911 every time she threatens suicide.  If she's faking, she learns she can't manipulate you by threatening violence.  If she's not faking, then she goes to the hospital and gets some needed help.

All this clearly takes its toll on you.  Here you'll find many others who can relate.  Please be kind to yourself.

[ForeverDad]

I've gone from NC with her to LC which I have tried recently after she threatened suicide again...

It is so sad because I had a hope the therapy would help her, but clearly it has not. I am at a loss now what to do. The guilt of not calling her once a month, fearing it will send her into suicidality is too much to bear sometimes.

It is what it is.  By that I reference that whether you continue LC or return to NC, she won't change though perhaps she may moderate her behavior for a time but then return to her baseline.  She has a lifetime of disordered perceptions and manipulations that work for her even though not constructively.

So you have to weigh what little impact you have on her life versus the impact on your life.  Thus far her threats of suicide appear to be threats to get you to weaken your protective boundaries, not serious harm to herself.  But the impact on your life - where she plays on your sense of guilt - is damaging your life.

It's your choice whether to play into her hands, her negativity, or stick to boundaries to protect yourself and others you love.

The Bridge
The Backyard Black Hole
There's a Hole in My Sidewalk

[Notwendy]

But I have not done anything abusive to her, except react to her own abusiveness. Sometimes this was pent-up anger at what she took from me as a young woman, but never anything violent, just a normal person's emotional disregulation at an abusive person. (She even at one point accused me of "reactive abuse"...whatever that is?) I have become the enemy for her and that won't ever change. The victim consciousness is very intense on her end. I am seeing it now for what it is and that I don't think there's any chance for transformation, though I continue to pray for it, maybe some miracle could occur, but I don't know if I've ever heard of a borderline awakening out of their patterns.

My parents stayed together and so, my father was my mother's main emotional caretaker (his choice). In his elder years, he got ill and BPD mother's behavior escalated. I didn't understand this initially, stepped in to help, but her emotionally and verbally abusive behavior was difficult to tolerate. I had to have boundaries with this, for my own sake and also for me to be able to function, at work, at home.

As Dad's health deteriorated, I also experienced my own emotional distress over the situation. If we are dealing with our own emotions, we have less bandwidth to deal with other situations. I had not gotten angry at my BPD mother probably since I was a teen. Not that there wasn't any issues- I had learned to not argue with her, but this time, I was overwhelmed and I yelled at her.

If you have heard the expression "don't pee in the wind"- that would describe why not to do this. If anyone expressed anger at my BPD mother- it wouldn't get through to her. She dysregulates and projects it all back at you. You then feel worse for having done that.

Why do we get upset with, or try to bring up hurts with a loved one? It's not because we want to hurt them. It's because, we want to be seen, understood, and hopefully find a way to move forward with them. If we didn't care, we wouldn't bother. But this didn't work with BPD mother. She'd dysregulate and project her feelings back out. It didn't connect with her. It only made things worse.

I think a determinant for our relationship was my own ability to self regulate and also decide on what boundaries I would have to have. Her needs could be constant but nobody can be someone's 24/7 emotional caretaker. She didn't like boundaries. It seemed that whatever I could do for her was not enough. I'd visit and do things for her but she'd find something I did or didn't do that would upset or disappoint her. What helped me to see that this wasn't personal to me but a part of the BPD dynamics is that she did this with caretakers too in her elder years. The closest a caregiver got to her, the more this kind of dynamic happened. It doesn't seem fair that the closer one is to someone with BPD, the more they experience the disordered behaviors.

It helped to have a spiritual perspective on this. There's a higher Judge in all of this, who sees both of us in a much clearer way. While I think we are required to act in ethical ways towards others, I don't think we are expected to tolerate behavior that is hurtful to us without limits. Where you find yourself in this balance is an individual decision- something you will be wrestling with your own conscience over. It felt more like walking a tightrope, sometimes falling over one side (too much) or the other (not enough).

I think this article describes the emotional situation well, even if it's not exactly the same circumstances. https://slate.com/technology/2022/03/mentally-ill-parent-elder-care-boundaries-liz-scheier.html

[mazje1980]

Thank you for all of the wonderful responses. It sounds like you all have so much wisdom and clarity from dealing with this.
I sent her flowers to say sorry (although know deep down I have nothing to apologize for) just kind of make her go away. Now it's like nothing happened and she's sending me texts with heart emojis again. I kind of regret sending the flowers. I know I live in fear she'll threaten me with suicide ideation again, emotional violence, and so that was my gesture to kind of make it just stop for now. It's hard to be in a limbo where you don't know how to respond, because nothing will make anything right, ever.

[CC43]

Hi there,

One way you might look at the situation is that it made YOU feel good to send the flowers.  You're proving to yourself that you're trying to be the bigger person and smooth things over with a kind gesture.  She's your mom after all.  You can't control how she reacts:  whether she trashes the flowers, ignores you for weeks, sends thanks or pretends like nothing happened.  You can hope for the best and plan for the worst.  But you'll always know that you tried your best and did what you thought was right.

That your mom is pretending like nothing happened seems typical for me, at least given my experience with a pwBPD in the past.  You see, she's always a victim and won't acknowledge her own hurtful behavior, because in her mind, you CAUSED her to lash out.  It's basically impossible for her to apologize, because it would mean taking responsibility, and furthermore, it conflicts with her narrative.  She wouldn't even consider the possibility of trying to make you feel better--because she's lacking genuine empathy and perspective.  But what she might do is pretend like nothing happened.  That's the best-case scenario in my opinion.  If she pretends like she never accused you of ruining her life, then maybe you can pretend you didn't hear her say that.  My opinion is that when a pwBPD is having an emotional meltdown, they don't really mean what they say--they are just lashing out, trying to convey the pain they're in, trying to rid themselves of their distress, but unfortunately hurting the people closest to them in the process.  In fact, I think that what was really happening was that she was projecting her self-hatred onto you.  I think that "You never loved me/you hate me" is code for, "I can't see how you would ever love me because I'm damaged/a mess/too needy/not loveable, and I really need you to reassure me that I was a good mom in spite of it all."  By the same token, I think that if your mom is inviting you to share your feelings, that's really code for, "I want to tell you what I'm feeling."

One other phenomenon I've noticed is that pwBPD are often triggered when you're not feeling well (because you have an illness, suffer from depression, etc.).  I think that could be because they want to remain the center of attention, and they want 100% of your effort focused on them.  Thus they react badly if you take some time to care for yourself.  Some reactions I've experienced are to deny or downplay the illness, to invalidate symptoms, and to create drama in order to reclaim attention.  In addition, I think they react badly because they think their own pain is the most horrible pain on the planet.  They are the gold medalists of the pain and grievance Olympics.  If you mention your own troubles, you are competing with them, threatening to usurp their gold medal status.  It unleashes the very familiar negative feelings in them, and they feed off of that negative energy--and that will trigger another meltdown.  Finally, I find that pwBPD can sometimes feel glad that you're not feeling well.  Maybe that's because they don't feel so alone in their misery and dysfunction.  Sometimes they'll go in the other direction and seem to catastrophize your situation, like they WANT you to suffer even more.  Then they don't have to feel as bad about their own dysfunction?  I think the saying isn't "misery likes company," but rather "misery likes miserable company."

I guess my advice is, it's probably best not too share too much personal and emotionally charged information with your mom.  I know that's sad, but it's probably best to protect yourself.  She's just not capable of listening with care and concern right now.  In a way, your roles are reversed--you're the parent, and she acts like a child who always needs comforting and reassurance, and she lacks the emotional maturity/stability to handle delicate, emotionally-charged topics. 

[Notwendy]

Thank you for all of the wonderful responses. It sounds like you all have so much wisdom and clarity from dealing with this.
I know I live in fear she'll threaten me with suicide ideation again, emotional violence, and so that was my gesture to kind of make it just stop for now. It's hard to be in a limbo where you don't know how to respond, because nothing will make anything right, ever.

My BPD mother made threats and had some attempts. When we were kids, at home, my father must have handled this and then, after we left home, we didn't know about them as he must have continued to do this.

After he passed away, we were concerned about her being on her own. We decided that if we had any concerns about threats- we'd call 911 immediately. If someone is seriously threatening, they need professional help. We live at a distance, we aren't qualified to handle these things.

If she said anything suggesting a threat- we'd say this is concerning, and we are going to call for help for her. She didn't make serious threats to us after that.

I did call 911 to her one time when I wasn't sure what was going on.

It's very difficult to know if a threat is serious or for attention. The only safe thing to do is to call emergency if you have any concerns. This is not your responsibility. You are at a distance and also not her medical care providers. There's nothing you can do for her besides calling for help for her.

[Notwendy]

Flowers were my choice of gift for BPD mother. I wasn't sure she'd like a gift or not and sometimes she'd throw something away if she was angry. So my "price point" was "how much and what am I willing to send -knowing she might toss it out"? Flowers seemed to be a good choice.

The other concern was possible theft. She would make accusations of people stealing her things but I don't know if this was true- was it theft, was it that she gave it away, or did she throw it out. She wasn't physically abusive but she'd damage, or throw out possesions if she was angry. Flowers seemed like the safest, nicest thing to send. Mostly, she seemed to like them.