Please help

[In4thewin]

I'm very sad and confused about what I should do and not do when it comes to mitigating issues and helping m dBPD daughter right now and moving forward. Her recent news about being pregnant has thrown me through a loop and made her need to seek help so much more urgent, but I know I can't control that. At this point I'm grappling with how to maintain physical boundaries that are necessary due to her volatile behavior while also remaining accessible and appropriately supportive. She wants me to just "be happy for her" but I don't feel happiness. What I feel is afraid and helpless with a smidgon of hope that hangs on a thread. My friend who's a nurse and professes to understand BPD thinks that I should be going NC to the point of blocking my daughter from even contacting me, but this just doesn't set right in my heart or mind. She's only 19, is legitimately in a lot of pain, and it seems cruel and downright dangerous...... but apparently that makes me codependent? Please help. I wan't to support her and be a part of my grandchild's life, but not with the tradeoff of continuing to tolerate abuse or becoming an enabler. I don't believe the pregnancy was any accident but does that even matter. Does it?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi Inforthewin
I have read your first post about the pregnancy and have been trying to find a moment to pen a reply. Your post brought back a clear recollection of the moment my DD announced that she was pregnant. I felt spaced out and totally whacked – so I am sure my response was well short of enthusiastic. I too was sure it was not accidental – and my DD was 19.
Now gd is nearly 16! It is a rollercoaster ride that’s for sure.

I am not sure your friend fully understands BPD – because I don’t think she would give advice of this scale if that were the case. Going NC is a huge step – one that is an option for sure – but it is such a huge thing to do, I don’t think anyone can advise another person to take that step. The person themselves would need to come to that conclusion and from what you say, it is not what your heart or head is telling you to do at this point in time. You need to follow that message I believe.

I also don’t think it matters whether the pregnancy was planned or not. It is there now, and all the reasons why it would be better if it had not happened are not going to change that. This is now the situation.

First of all give yourself time to adjust to this. It is HUGE – and you are no doubt thinking of all the possible consequences and different eventualities. I found myself sort of feeling sick, while DD was basking in all the attention a pregnancy brings.

We use words like ‘co-dependence’ often without a proper definition, or reference to a huge range of different circumstances. Being prepared to walk beside your DD does not mean that you are automatically ‘co-dependent’. It can simply mean you love your DD and want to be able to be part of her life and the life of your grandchild.

That’s the first thing – follow your own heart and mind (wherever it may lead you because that’s the only way forward).

The next thing – can you be happy about it? This is what your DD wants, but gosh I am sure it is hard to get the happy vibe going when you can see all the possibilities and problems ahead. I have to admit I found it very difficult but after getting over the shock and taking time to adjust I changed my thought pattern to focusing on the child. That made it easier because every child needs to be carried in an atmosphere that is happy, relaxed and healthy – and your grandchild is no exception.

All that said, there is still the fact that your DD has a very serious condition – one that is not only challenging for her but all those around her and especially whoever is the target of blame. And DD is only 19 so be ready for the long haul.

From what you say, the father of the child is very stable and has stable support – this is another reason to be happy because that side of things could be so different.

Do you feel you can express a positive feeling to your DD? I think if you can do that, the next thing is look at what happens then? I am wondering whether DD intends to move in with the father, stay at the apartment that you are financing or . . .

I think I would be quickly making the positive vibe move and then keeping an open communication to find out what DD is thinking in relation to the living arrangement. Perhaps you know this already.

Re the abuse etc. In my opinion it’s good to take one step at a time, I would see how all this settles and then perhaps you could post some actual examples of how things are and we can look at options for addressing those issues.

Keep in mind that all this is my opinion. I believe strongly that each person’s situation and relationship is unique and you are the one who knows your DD.  It is great to come here where people know the lived experience of BPD and can give us their personal experience. All options are on the table – follow your heart and mind, and  believe in your own ability to find a way forward.                             

[js friend]

Hi Infortewin,


My udd had her first child at 19yo and I remember feeling very sadden for my unborn gc as udd had shown only shown up to that point that she could barely look after herself, yet udd wanted a fanfare  and was disappointed that we (her family)werent happy or excited by this news. I remember it being a weird time as dd didnt want my support and only wanted to do anything baby related in secret and only had time for her b/f and friends.


I think your friend means well and as an outsiders view I would probably have said the same but see LC as a good option.
I think the fear that you are feeling comes from FOG (fear. obligation, Guilt) Once the FOG is out of the way we can often  see the situation for what it really is. I often compare now how udd treated me to if she was a friend and whether I would put up with it, and often the answer is NO i wouldnt, but because she is my udd I allowed her to get away with it.

After finding out my udd was pregnant I invited her to come for dinner once a week as she was not living at home at the time. I fed her and I gave her toiletries and some groceries. I kept it all short and sweet because it was all I could mentally manage at the time, and udd behaved suprisingly well and made an effort to be there on time which is something she never did when she lived at home.

If there are any threats of possible violence however I dont think any face to face interaction alone with my udd would have been possible and I wouldnt have gone down that route. Another thing to remember is that your udd's hormones maybe all over the place too so not to take what she says seriously. It is not an excuse but a consideration when going NC. I think this decision has to be a personal one.

I know that you probably feeling obligated  as her mother but boundaries are important at whatever age and you are allowed to take a step back to look after your own mental health without feeling guilty. My udd was 19yo when she had first gc. She has had 2 more and even though we are now estranged I always think that there will be hopefully time enough to reconnect under better circumstances, so dont give up hope or think that it must be now or never.

I think if you do manage to speak to your dd it will be better to focus her and her pregnancy even if she tries to draw you into a conversation about her r/s. By jumping in I think it will backfire somewhere down the line and you will be blamed.

I think you have to do what is right for you at this stage.

[CC43]

Hi Win,

I understand you're stressed out worrying about your dysregulated daughter, and now about her bringing a life into this world when she doesn't seem able to care for herself very well, while she's acting abusively towards you, her biggest ally on the planet.  If your nurse friend is suggesting no contact, I bet that's because they see how desperate the situation really is, and they're trying to be supportive by placing your interests first and foremost.  As a mom, you're probably accustomed to placing your daughter's interests first, and now you have to think about a grandchild on top of that; your natural inclination is to put yourself last.  It sounds to me like you have a good friend who's concerned about you, even if you decide not to follow the well-meaning advice.

To your daughter, getting pregnant might seem like a solution to all her problems:  she gets someone to love her unconditionally, she gets attention, and maybe she avoids figuring out how to support herself, because she assumes others will step up.  With her black-and-white thinking, being pregnant feels all white right now.  Maybe she genuinely wants to be a mom.  But since she's 19, she probably underestimates how difficult it is, yet she doesn't care--she wants all the joy and attention and none of the burden at the moment.  It's no surprise that she's upset when you don't seem to be over the moon--she was probably expecting attention, adoration, a shower with lots of presents, and an upgraded living situation.

I haven't been in your situation, though from time to time I've feared that my adult stepdaughter with BPD might try to get pregnant.  She can't support herself independently right now, and she abandoned a beloved pet for months--I think she couldn't possibly take care of a child in her current situation.  She can function a few months at a time, but then she tends to have meltdowns and need extensive support (plus long "vacations" from real life) to get herself back on track.  Adding a baby to this situation would only complicate matters by an order of magnitude.

I understand that going no contact seems extreme, especially for someone so young.  If you are often reeling from how poorly your daughter treats you, there might be a middle ground of low contact.  One way to do this would be to reach out on a schedule--say, once or twice a week--at a time and in a manner that is least disruptive to you.  Maybe it's a coffee together, a call on your way to work, or a facetime when you're on a walk.  You could adopt the stance that you're emotionally supportive, but you don't provide a monthly stipend or housing, because you're both adults now and live your own lives.  You have your own budget and living arrangements, just like your daughter has her own budget and living arrangements.  How does that sound?

[In4thewin]

I decided to go low contact out of necessity. Tonight I sent her an email and I described my concerns in a very non confrontational way. I told her I loved her, validated that I know she needs me etc. I described how painful it's been to continually be verbally abused and I also expressed that I was hoping she'd get into a DBT program and do the work this time. Shortly thereafter, I was sent a long text spam packed with nothing but vile things about how she wishes me dead and calling me outrageous profanities. She did exactly what I described to her as being a major problem that needed to change. I really have no choice but to let the dust settle and not attempt to engage with her again until she reaches back out and acts like nothing has happened. At this point she's moved out of her apartment and in with the bf. I gave her a decent car, I'm paying for her cosmetology program, and I send her $120 a week. I'm not cutting that off but I also will not increase it or participate in any planning for the baby unless she and her bf get around to approaching me about this pregnancy together, and collectively state their intention to have the baby and coparent in his home. Is that too much to expect? They were already gearing up to formally move her in before the pregnancy happened, but honestly, I didn't see any signs that he was "in love" with my daughter, and I know that she was the one who pushed the relationship. It's what she does. I have no idea how he really even feels about her or what expectations if any he has when it comes to her or anyone else bringing additional money into the household now that a baby is on the way or when it arrives. Aren't these things that anyone in my position would want to know and expect would be "transparent"? Or am I overstepping?

[CC43]

I was sent a long text spam packed with nothing but vile things about how she wishes me dead and calling me outrageous profanities. I really have no choice but to let the dust settle and not attempt to engage with her again until she reaches back out and acts like nothing has happened. At this point she's moved out of her apartment and in with the bf. I gave her a decent car, I'm paying for her cosmetology program, and I send her $120 a week. I'm not cutting that off but I also will not increase it or participate in any planning for the baby unless she and her bf get around to approaching me about this pregnancy together, and collectively state their intention to have the baby and coparent in his home. Is that too much to expect? . . . . I have no idea how he really even feels about her or what expectations if any he has when it comes to her or anyone else bringing additional money into the household now that a baby is on the way or when it arrives. Aren't these things that anyone in my position would want to know and expect would be "transparent"? Or am I overstepping?

Hi there,

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your feelings about your daughter's boyfriend.  It seems you would like to know that he's committed to your daughter and will earn enough money to care for your daughter and their child together, right?  Of course you'd want that for your daughter, but do you really expect him to give you an accounting of his earnings and the household budget?  You write that you need to know his "expectations if any he has when it comes to her or anyone else bringing additional money into the household."  I get that, but by the same token, I don't think he should be telling YOU that.  He should be telling your daughter.  Besides, people can be full of good intentions, but fail to deliver because life and work are HARD.  What matters to me aren't intentions as much as results.  And for me, the best predictor of future results is past behavior.  Is the boyfriend capable of holding down a job, gradually increasing his responsibilties and winning promotions?  One look at his resume and you'd have decent information.  The same goes for your daughter.

Maybe you're trying to say, you don't want to be expected to pay for your daughter and grandchild yourself.  But why would your daughter think YOU are going to pay?  Have you told her you would?  The baby is her responsibility, not yours.  She made the choice, she bears the responsibility.  Granted, with BPD, there's usually a heavy dose of entitlement and sky-high expectations of other people.

I guess if I were in your shoes and I were supporting another adult economically, my support would be wholly in kind and conditioned upon using the money as I intended, akin to making a donation to charity, where funds must be used for stated charitable purposes.  By that I mean, if I pay tuition, then my expectation is that she study (and pass).  If she fails or drops out of school, then there's no more money for tuition.  If I pay rent for an apartment, then my expectation is that she live in the apartment.  If she abandons (or trashes) the apartment, then no more rent money.  If I give her some money for utilities, then my expectation is for it to be spent on utilities.  If she's spending the money on illicit drugs, lottery tickets or other nonsense, then no more money for utilities.  If she declares, she's an adult, she wants to drop out of school, abandon her apartment, move in with her boyfriend and have a baby, that is her choice, and it sounds like a deliberate one.  I respect another adult's choices--I really do--provided that they aren't breaking the law, hurting others, or making me live with the consequences.  Your daughter is showing you she doesn't value her old apartment (nor the tuition you paid in all likelihood), and that's OK.  She has something now that she thinks is better, she's exercising her independence, and you don't have to keep paying for things she doesn't want.  You certainly don't have to reward bad behavior, when your daughter is wishing you dead and calling you outrageous profanities, while holding out her hand for additional spending money.  I'm writing this because I wish my family hadn't financed and enabled increasingly destructive and expensive decisions by a loved one with BPD, while my husband and I bore the financial/logistical consequences.  I promise you, the verbal and written abuse only get worse, almost in direct proportion to the demands for more money, for as long as your daughter doesn't seek professional treatment.  I think the potential to make questionable choices grows as the size of her pocketbook increases, right alongside her age and her expectations to do adult things, such as have a baby.  Look, would you be angry if your daughter decided to vacate her apartment and move in with her boyfriend if she were the one responsible for paying the rent?  My guess is that if SHE were paying the rent, she'd find a solution, such as a sublet situation, and then her choice wouldn't bother you as much.  Or maybe you're angry because your daughter got pregnant and is living with a boyfriend before marriage?  I'm not a fan of that choice either, but it's not mine to make, and it's not uncommon, either.  Some would say it's the most economical choice, as a single mom could qualify for more benefits.

Let me guess, you want to pay for your daughter to get DBT treatment, but your daughter doesn't want to do it--she wants to do other things, mainly spend time with her boyfriend.  If you relent and continue to give her money, you're likely enabling and prolonging dysfunciton, in addition to training your daughter to treat you poorly.  My humble opinion is that you should close the parental ATM for the time being.  This isn't to be mean, but to show your daughter sooner rather than later that she needs to live in the "real world."  In the "real world," adults need to face economic realities, which usually mean that parents can't afford to bankroll their adult children forever.  I think you should start now, before you set your daughter's expectations of getting a weekly stipend from you (unless you can afford to see it multiplied and extended for 18 years or so).

In the meantime, I think you have the right idea of waiting until your daughter reaches out and pretends like nothing happened.  I think you might pretend that nothing happened, either.  You could say, you respect your daughters decision to start her family.  Though you're not an ATM, you can provide moral support, given your own experience with pregnancy and early motherhood.  I'd say, try to become a trusted adviser and moral supporter, instead of being a provider/nurturer/ATM.  This might be a good inflection point--your daughter is a full adult now, and you can start treating her like one, not like a dependent little girl.  But if she resumes her abusive behavior, disengage right away and protect yourself.  Try not to reward her bad behavior with money or attention.

Just my two cents.

[Pook075]

Aren't these things that anyone in my position would want to know and expect would be "transparent"? Or am I overstepping?

Personally, I feel like you're overstepping on almost everything.  On the car, the cosmetology school, on the allowance, and certainly on taking her abuse.

Your daughter will take mental health seriously when she has no one else to blame but herself.  Yet every time she gets in that position, you're trying to save her from herself.  So instead of her seeing the actual problem (she's mentally ill), she sees you as the problem and lashes out.

Your kind-hearted support is being interpreted as entitlement and proof that you're a bad parent.  After all, why else would you keep paying for everything?  She thinks you feel guilty so she continues to manipulate and blame you.  Ultimately it's making her sicker mentally.

I do agree with your daughter though that she doesn't have to prove the boyfriend's intentions to you.  That's for them to figure out together and if he's not a good guy, then she needs to learn that on her own.  So let her be an adult and face the consequences of these actions.

Your kid needs a supportive mom right now, and her next year will be 1,000x harder without it.  So I don't think you should go no-contact but at the same time, you must end the circular arguments with very clear boundaries.  If she explodes on you, you're not speaking for a few days.  If she wants financial support, she will be kind and thankful or she will make her own money.  Hold her to the same standards that you'd hold anyone else to, because they're lessons she has to learn in order to get better.

And honestly, if she's just a month or two pregnant, it's better to have this blow-out now than later.

[ForeverDad]

People with BPD traits (pwBPD) can and do quickly overreact.  You're thinking, But I tried to be reasonable and calm, why this extreme vitriol of rants and rages?  She lives in a different world, mentally.

Hers is a world of self-oriented perceptions, perceived slights, feelings, moods, no seeming awareness of consequences, etc.  On the other hand, your logic and reasoning are a total disconnect to her.  The problem is that hers is not a reasonably normal world view.

So approaching communication with JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) are typically doomed except in rare moments.  Over on our Tools & Skills workshops board we have threads on JADE, DEARMAN, SET, BIFF and more.  Browse them and ponder the benefits of each approach.

There are also threads there on how effective Boundaries can work, somewhat.  PwBPD resist boundaries so boundaries are up to us.  How are boundaries ours?  Boundaries are our response to poor behavior.  At the most basic it can be illustrated as, "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."

So once you've informed them of Your Boundary, then you can proceed.  For example, if the other rants and rages you can say goodbye, end the conversation, hang up or leave until the other has reset or otherwise calmed down.  Does that make sense?  It's not intuitive but it's a better pattern that will have more success than in the past.

Frankly, all these concepts aren't complete solutions and may not work every time - BPD patterns often seem intractable and resist recovery - but they have a track record in our collective experience to work better and more often than what was tried before.