Six years too late? It's never too late.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It's the way she processes things that turns pebbles into unstopable forces.  She does that within her mind, and it's why she struggles to forgive, to apologize, to let go of wounds.

That one got me.

Pook/Wendy; as before, very meaningful input. I'm incredibly appreciative. I took myself to my favorite park last night and let some feelings out. I'm quite good at bottling those up. I asked myself a lot of those questions... and if I'm honest, this pattern has been present throughout the duration of the relationship. Somewhere along the timeline I stopped trying to fix it and started trying to fix myself, and she did in her own path, but it was all spaghetti.

The pattern is always how horrible everyone else was. We're just over 24 hours no contact right as of writing this, and the last series of texts (I didn't respond!) were that I'm worst than all of them.

I think what's shaking my brain up right now is that for the last four years I didn't have any of *this.* I just processed in isolation. Woof.

I'm excited for my NEABPD coursework to begin. Learning from ya'll and everyone else is really helpful.

[bluebird314]

It's the way she processes things that turns pebbles into unstopable forces.  She does that within her mind, and it's why she struggles to forgive, to apologize, to let go of wounds.

That one got me.

Pook/Wendy; as before, very meaningful input. I'm incredibly appreciative. I took myself to my favorite park last night and let some feelings out. I'm quite good at bottling those up. I asked myself a lot of those questions... and if I'm honest, this pattern has been present throughout the duration of the relationship. Somewhere along the timeline I stopped trying to fix it and started trying to fix myself, and she did in her own path, but it was all spaghetti.

The pattern is always how horrible everyone else was. We're just over 24 hours no contact right as of writing this, and the last series of texts (I didn't respond!) were that I'm worst than all of them.

I think what's shaking my brain up right now is that for the last four years I didn't have any of *this.* I just processed in isolation. Woof.

I'm excited for my NEABPD coursework to begin. Learning from ya'll and everyone else is really helpful.

[Notwendy]

That one got me.

Somewhere along the timeline I stopped trying to fix it and started trying to fix myself.

The pattern is always how horrible everyone else was. We're just over 24 hours no contact right as of writing this, and the last series of texts (I didn't respond!) were that I'm worst than all of them.

I'm excited for my NEABPD coursework to begin. Learning from ya'll and everyone else is really helpful.

Truly- we can not "fix" another person. Working on ourselves is the better path- to whatever decision that leads to.

The course sounds very informative and useful. Learning about BPD can help us to understand the other person but turning the focus inward is where we can be effective.

One exercise a T taught me is when being accused of something, first consider if it is true or not. If not- then substitute something absurd like "pink elephant" for the accusation. You wouldn't react if someone called you that as you are certain you aren't one. Also, your wife calling you that doesn't make it true.

It's good you are able to have the chance to look at your own feelings.

[Pook075]

That one got me.

Pook/Wendy; as before, very meaningful input. I'm incredibly appreciative. I took myself to my favorite park last night and let some feelings out. I'm quite good at bottling those up. I asked myself a lot of those questions... and if I'm honest, this pattern has been present throughout the duration of the relationship. Somewhere along the timeline I stopped trying to fix it and started trying to fix myself, and she did in her own path, but it was all spaghetti.

The pattern is always how horrible everyone else was. We're just over 24 hours no contact right as of writing this, and the last series of texts (I didn't respond!) were that I'm worst than all of them.

I think what's shaking my brain up right now is that for the last four years I didn't have any of *this.* I just processed in isolation. Woof.

I'm excited for my NEABPD coursework to begin. Learning from ya'll and everyone else is really helpful.

In this moment, you are the worst because that's what she's FEELING.  I keep going back to that word because it's where all the chaos stems from.  She's had those same feelings with anyone she's ever become close to, and eventually they said or did something that changed her feelings.

I only brought that up to help you see the bigger picture.  This isn't a fight you versus her.  This is a fight against mental illness and you're both fighting it at the same time.  She just happens to be choosing the wrong side to fight for.

I wish you luck and patience brother.  This is still a winnable fight if you want it to be.  But first, you need a little R&R to clear your mind and actually be able to think.  Take some time and we'll talk about if the marriage is worth saving another day.

[bluebird314]

Checking in.

Last weekend was incredibly restful. No contact led way to attempts at contact this week and predictable patterns of push/pull and gushes of emotional dysregulation. I've been angry. More angry than before. I got angry with Fruzetti's book High Conflict Couples when it attempted to tell me how to validate my partner; worked myself to the realization that I struggle with validating her feelings  while keeping my own self-respect knowing how false the points are. I've been trying to wrap my mind around the Transactional Model and have been taking steps back during the occasional text spirals to assess what I'm seeing.

I do think that I contributed to her instability by way of not understanding validation... but I'm one half a situation. Resentment after resentment and insult after insult is hurled at me and I take deep breaths and respond with validating replies until she stops.

I can feel a crossroad. I don't know if I can be with this person, knowing how there will never be a recovery within this experience that gives way for my own sadness, my own chronic invalidations, and my valid and personal experience of our marriage. I just... don't see it happening. The only way forward seems to be a world where I go 100% forward as the problem and... enter the same cycle?

Anger/hopelessness. Still sleeping at my office. Mad that the home I just bought is without me. I'm without my dogs and cats and kids and things... so that she can have space? I'm giving her  that space. And I'm seeing the cycle in the text messages. The same cycle.

I'm ________ing exhausted. Separation will not end, yet.

[Pook075]

Remember the hammer analogy I gave you?  When you hit your finger with the hammer, all you can think about is pain.

As you learn to validate and calm situations, your partner will not be in that "I hit my finger with the hammer" mentality all the time.  One a scale of 1 to 10, maybe she ramps up to a 9 in intensity now.  But as you learn to validate, it builds trust and she learns to regulate her emotions much better.

For instance, when my ex walked away, she'd get to a 10 in intensity every time we talked.  Anything I said that she didn't agree with, it was explosive fury almost instantly.  But over time, as I learned to communicate a different way, our conversations haven't passed a 2 in intensity in years.  Same person, same topics...but the trust was rebuilt and I learned to validate.

Of course, I said "my ex" because we divorced.  We could have made it work though if she was willing, because we were past the worst of it and we both genuinely healed.  Our conversations today and friendly and productive.  We laugh, we make fun of our kids.  It's a good relationship and she's still 100% mentally ill and untreated.

I shared that to say that you have options here.  Walking away is certainly an option and nobody would blame you.  It's real work keeping these types of relationships healthy and it's rarely fair for the non-BPD.  But it can be turned around and it can be a healthy relationship if you choose that path.

It's good that you got angry.  It's good that you're having second thoughts.  That means you're actually processing this and seeing both sides of the coin.  Nobody here should tell you to stay or go, that's all on you.  But I'm glad that you're starting to heal and see things a little more objectively.

[bluebird314]

Remember the hammer analogy I gave you?  When you hit your finger with the hammer, all you can think about is pain.

This analogy keeps landing really well. The focus in this week's NEABPD course is a deep dive on Validation, so I'm hoping to gain from that and ask some great, dumb questions.

I'm moving into the tools part of the High Conflict book this afternoon.

I'm also making myself go out and see my friends. They're all wanting to help. It's been 6+ years of this, so I get weary bringing the same problems and cycles to them each time. As if I'm exhausting them by it, even tho they're asking about it.

Back into the caves of self exploration and revelation we go!

[ForeverDad]

I recall my divorce lawyer telling me, "Courts love counseling."  Counseling is a very good thing, no doubt about it.  However, successful therapy does not guarantee that the marriage is repaired and prospers.  It might, or it might not.

He recommended 5 years of therapy for both of us... .He gave us a warning that day, he said 'it is very possible and likely that as you go through therapy that it will cause you to divorce.'

My wife has not improved (personality disorders are a hard nut to crack...).  I have become a much healthier person and recognize my defects and have changed much of them (work in process).  As I became better... .  our marriage got even worse.  I filed for divorce 5.5 years later.

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  In a few of her posts she made an observation that meshes well with your comments.  She wrote that if persons who work to attain some recovery then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive, one or both had changed that much.

[bluebird314]

However, successful therapy does not guarantee that the marriage is repaired and prospers.  It might, or it might not.

Another bell rings.

We're speaking tomorrow night by phone.

Today she sent me an audio note with 12 un-forgivable actions. I happened to be walking into therapy and utilized the time to listen to it alongside my therapist. I dug deep and  could quickly recognize my failure to properly validate my pwBPD's feelings over time. But laying all 12 out made me quickly realize how bad black-and-white thinking becomes... during our first massive fight (and the first time I was kicked out of my house for a week) I bought a motorcycle at a bar at 2am. I let her know during a repair attempt. I tried to laugh it off, like "hey, I did something crazy, too!" Bad move. Any partner would be annoyed. But five years later it's still unforgivable. Not quitting her meds and kicking me out of the house because she "didn't have the combo to our safe with ours kids documents in it." (Arrested Development Voice) she did.

Three were issues with my mom; instances where she picked fights and my attempts to resolve didn't work... I tried to lead horses to water instead of simply siding with my partner. Problem is, I didn't fully agree with her side. She was quick to anger, irrational and I believe overly unforgiving in the moment. These un-forgivable failures seem less about me than a conjecture of a reality that I don't live in.

More failures; inconsideration, one-sided presentations of experiences (where I do recognize some culpability, but I cannot for the life of me figure out where the entire other half of the experience seems to have gone...)

I'm increasingly feeling done. I've stayed longer than anyone else in her life. She's excommunicated her sister three times in 8 years. Going back seems like working desperately to convince her... to take me back? And completely ignore all the other issues? It all feels untrue to who I am and what feels real.

Today I realized that this marriage failing isn't a failure. It's just a reality. I'm not cut out for this. Or, she's not in a position of healing enough to become self-reflective and address my own invalidation through our experiences.

When she texts, my mouth goes dry. My nerves tingle. I think "oh god, what next." The more time I spend away from her... the more time I'm finding myself happy again. And realizing how unhappy I've been.

That's painful. I think I love her. But I really, really don't know what to expect tomorrow. She's "100% done" on her end. Yet she sends me this list... I know a game when I see one. I'm told every time I leave the home (after being told to leave) that "I never fight back for her." Bait I won't take. If she can't see it, there's no point finishing the painting.

When I numb the parts of me that need numbing to exist with her, it turns out I numb everything. And I think I've been numb for 8 years.

[Pook075]

Today she sent me an audio note with 12 un-forgivable actions.

Forgiveness is the basis of any relationship.  If you love someone, you forgive them.  It might not be easy, it might not sting for awhile, but love should conquer all.

Now, I'm not talking about abuse.  If someone is abusive, you don't forgive...you run.  If someone is a serial cheater or a drunk or an addict, you can't forgive that either because it's happening all the time.  So don't take this the wrong way- I'm talking about normal everyday mistakes here.

BPDs are notorious for black and white thinking, seeing things in absolutes.  That's the aspect of this that becomes so incredibly hard.  If they can't forgive, how can they love someone?  Honestly, they can't.  Love and hate don't go together.

I've said this in almost every post to you- THIS CAN WORK.  I've seen it, I've lived it.  To change her absolute thinking and her list of "unforgivable sins", you have to change your relationship and how you communicate.  That means forgiving her first, for everything she's said and done.  It's also admitting your mistakes and owning your part.  If you do that, there's so much less to fight about and it disarms them.

This CAN work, I'm positive of it.  That's not the question though.  The real question is whether or not the cost is too much to actually make it work.

I think you're doing all the right things.  Keep reading, keep working through therapy, keep trying to understand that she's hit her thumb with a mental hammer.  Also, try to validate her FEELINGS and EMOTIONS.  Don't argue, just accept your mistakes and move on.

You're doing everything you can to give this a real chance at working.  Give it a little more time and keep working the process.  Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't.  But you're going to be a better man on the other side of this regardless because you're setting yourself up for long-term success.

[ForeverDad]

I'm increasingly feeling done. I've stayed longer than anyone else in her life. She's excommunicated her sister three times in 8 years. Going back seems like working desperately to convince her... to take me back? And completely ignore all the other issues? It all feels untrue to who I am and what feels real.

Today I realized that this marriage failing isn't a failure. It's just a reality. I'm not cut out for this. Or, she's not in a position of healing enough to become self-reflective and address my own invalidation through our experiences.

I'm reminded of something that occurred periodically over the years.  An ex I knew would get triggered and irate at her son and disown him, bringing him to tears.  She never did actually disown him legally, but it was so devastating to him.  The first time it happened, so far as I know, she was newly separated and he was a preschooler.  He was distressed because she had told him he wasn't obeying her and she was going to adopt a kid who would obey her.  What do you say to a child sobbing that his mother would exchange him for another, beyond comforting him?

That is a pattern seen with pwBPD.  In their own emotional extremes they can strike out at others, virtually defenseless others, then calm down and proceed as though it barely happened.

[zachira]

 "Today I realized that this marriage failing isn't a failure. It's just a reality. I'm not cut out for this. Or, she's not in a position of healing enough to become self-reflective and address my own invalidation through our experiences."

It can take years to realize that you are in a one sided relationship that nothing you do will ever make things right. To face this, takes great courage. All that you are learing through this process will allow you to have healthier relationships with yourself and others. Time to turn the page.