I crossed a line talking about this stuff with someone of the opposite sex

[Voi]

But the idea is that it's anonymous, right? I certainly hope so, as this isn't easy to write.

I've had a rough year. Our teenage daughter was hospitalized with depression threatening suicide. My spouse and I fought a lot about what to do about this. My spouse was arguing with me a lot about what to do with our daughter saying that our daughter just wants attention and she just needs to tough it out and that I was enabling her by listening to her concerns. This really put a strain on our marriage as we'd never really disagreed on anything important before.

I had a friend of the opposite sex that I've known for years. I think somehow this person sensed this tension and started being friendly and a bit flirty around the time that this happened. I was going through so much stress that I think I was vulnerable. I know this person was having marital issues. My therapist thinks this person is BPD based on things I've told him about this person but it would take too long to explain why he said this. Having done a lot of reading about the disorder since then and I think he's right.

In any case this person would listen to my problems and I was just glad to have someone to talk to that really seemed to care. We became very close and talked a lot. I now think it was a huge mistake to talk to this person and that this person has their own mental issues because this person started playing control games with me once they gained my trust - being available, then avoidance - power stuff. Fortunately, this story doesn't end in anything physical, but I do think I crossed a mental line talking about this stuff with someone of the opposite sex and feel guilty about that. (This person would ask very personal questions that should have been red flags.) The worst part is that I'm now convinced that this person was getting a kick out of this and was at least partially using me to validate their ego rather than true friendship. It's very painful to accept that I was so wrong about someone but in hindsight there were some obvious signs. But when your own emotions are involved that always makes it harder to see. Unfortunately, this is someone I can't avoid because I see them every day or I would start doing that.

Please don't judge me as I'm not proud of myself. Overall, things are getting better. I'm trying to be especially nice to my spouse, whom I love and loves me. That part is getting better overall. Our daughter is also doing much better.

But now I'm not sure what to do to get out of this. I see this person every day and every time I do it makes me think about all the crap from earlier. I resent it but then, as you know, BPDs can be very flattering when they want to be so sometimes I enjoy the company. Logically, I would just cut off all contact, and I think they've grown bored with me, but from what I've heard BPDs will flip out if you do that and I really don't need someone spreading nasty rumors that could damage my reputation. I also hate playing games with people and am usually a pretty honest person.

I also don't make friends easily and said some pretty personal stuff which makes this worse. I would like to be friends but I'm not sure that's possible. I feel pretty foolish, ashamed, used, etc.

I'm trying to learn from this experience but this sucks. Any advice would be welcome.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome Voi:    

I'm sorry about your situation.  I'm glad that your daughter is doing better!   

This is a safe place to share and not be judged.  I can understand how easy it can be to reach out to someone else for emotional support, when your husband can't offer that to you.  I'ts good that you are going to therapy.  A combination of therapy and interaction here can be a winning combination.

I'm thinking that since you see your friend daily, it might be a work situation?

One thing to start out with is to set some BOUNDARIES with your friend.  Click on the green word to your left to get to the article on boundaries.  Check out the article.  After reading it, what are a couple of boundaries you can start with?  Perhaps one would be that you become more private on what you share.  In preparation for the boundary, you might think of some responses in advance, should your friend inquire or probe for personal information that you no longer feel comfortable sharing.

[Voi]

Welcome Voi:    

I'm sorry about your situation.  I'm glad that your daughter is doing better!   

This is a safe place to share and not be judged.  I can understand how easy it can be to reach out to someone else for emotional support, when your husband can't offer that to you.  I'ts good that you are going to therapy.  A combination of therapy and interaction here can be a winning combination.

I'm thinking that since you see your friend daily, it might be a work situation?

One thing to start out with is to set some BOUNDARIES with your friend.  Click on the green word to your left to get to the article on boundaries.  Check out the article.  After reading it, what are a couple of boundaries you can start with?  Perhaps one would be that you become more private on what you share.  In preparation for the boundary, you might think of some responses in advance, should your friend inquire or probe for personal information that you no longer feel comfortable sharing.

That article was useful. My therapist talked about boundaries but I wasn't really clear on what was meant in that it is personal not just actions. I really like this part:

"The difference between setting a boundary in a healthy way and manipulating is:  when we set a boundary we let go of the outcome."

My boundaries have been to not talk about anything I wouldn't talk about in public. The games have stopped for now. From what I understand BPDs get bored really quickly and this person has found some new drama to get involved in. They may have thought they were helping but as I said before it wasn't just being a friend. A friend wouldn't pursue a married person with 2 kids and I won't get into detail but there were definite hints at that. Fortunately, I may be foolish, but not that foolish. I said in no uncertain terms that I am only interested in friendship, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the attention since there was a lot of conflict at home.

Yes, it's someone from work. We were friends for a while before. If I start avoiding them it will be obvious and I'm not quitting my job. I know the warning signs if I ever see something like this again but I wish I could find a way to forget about the whole thing. Why someone feels the need to mess with someone's emotions like this when I was down baffles me. It's cruel.

I'm not sure what advice, if any, there is to give. I dread going to work sometimes.

[formflier]

No judgment at all.   

It appears you have looked at the situation yourself... .and realized that it was not healthy and was likely outside "boundaries" of a male/female relationship that you would normally be comfortable with.

That's called self awareness... .that is good.  None of us are perfect, many of our (certainly my) biggest lessons come from times when I "fell short" of what I expected of myself.  Basically... .when I blew it.

I do think that reading... and rereading boundaries will help you.  It certainly helped me.

Can you get into more detail about what you need help extricating yourself from... relationship wise.

It appears you've back off some and it appears the person is perhaps not as "pushy" as before.  Do I have this right?

FF

[Voi]

Can you get into more detail about what you need help extricating yourself from... relationship wise.

It appears you've back off some and it appears the person is perhaps not as "pushy" as before.  Do I have this right?

FF

Well, honestly, part of me misses those conversations, though I now realize they were a bad idea. This person isn't as pushy because they found some new drama - who knows. The less I can think about it the better, but I'm not a robot.

And finding a way to avoid without it being obvious would be nice, too. Someone told me to slowly make excuses to avoid, which is probably a good idea.

That probably doesn't make much since. But I think me trying to play games with this person is like an amateur trying to fight a professional boxer.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Voi:  

Yes, it's someone from work. We were friends for a while before. If I start avoiding them it will be obvious and I'm not quitting my job. I know the warning signs if I ever see something like this again but I wish I could find a way to forget about the whole thing. Why someone feels the need to mess with someone's emotions like this when I was down baffles me. It's cruel. . .
I'm not sure what advice, if any, there is to give. I dread going to work sometimes.

I listen to a talk radio program, that is hosted by a psychologist.  Yesterday, she had a segment on "work family".  There are certain dynamics we all have with the people we work with.  Actually, having a close relationship with our work family, can make for a healthy work situation (within certain boundaries)

When you work with certain people for a number of years, you share many of life's experiences with them (the good, the bad and sometimes the ugly).  Just like in a normal family, there are dysfunctional members, who will prey upon someone in a vulnerable state.

Don't beat yourself up.    You reached out to a member of your work family.  You discovered that they seemed to have a personality disorder, and they tested your boundaries.  You corrected course, before things went too far and the relationship didn't evolve into something physical.  

My boundaries have been to not talk about anything I wouldn't talk about in public. The games have stopped for now. From what I understand BPDs get bored really quickly and this person has found some new drama to get involved in.

Sounds like a good strategy to NOT feed your friend's desire for drama, and to keep with your boundaries of only discussing certain things with him.  Just keep things pleasant.  Sometimes, you may want to use a BIFF RESPONSE

I think me trying to play games with this person is like an amateur trying to fight a professional boxer.  

In what way would you be playing games?  Establishing and enforcing boundaries would not be playing games.  You can talk to your coworker about work things, generic conversations (did you see this movie, latest in sports, etc.).  Just don't get emotionally envolved.

The best thing you can do for yourself and your family is to forgive yourself. There is no value in being stuck in the past or to continue to feel dread about going to work.  Why should you care what your friend thinks.  Hold your head high and put the past behind you.  It might be helpful for you to work on MEMORY MGMT. - RUMINATIONS .

One strategy that can be helpful, when you ruminate or worry about a situation, is to start with capturing your worries (document in some way).  Once you capture the worry, take your thoughts elsewhere. Then, allow yourself an appointed  to go over the documented worries.(perhaps you would start with 30 minutes and gradually decrease it).  By postponing the worries or ruminations, you can train yourself to stop the worrying.  

Give it a try and let us know how it goes.  Perhaps, you might want to discuss ruminations and mindfulness in your next therapy session?  You may have been flattered by the emotional intimacy with your coworker, but your therapist can provide a safer situation to gain emotional support.

[Mutt]

Hi voi,



I'd like to join the others and welcome you to bpdfamily. You got a lot of good advice and I don't have much to add, with work family in mind, what is your support network like outside of work with family and friends, you said that there was a lot of conflict at home, do you have someone that you trust and that you can talk to?

I wouldn't suggest complaining to friends and i'm not suggesting that you are, some things are better left for a T is all i'm saying, if something similar happens in the future, i'm sure that it won't, just pick up the phone and make an appointment with your T? It helps to be out of the situation, some time to yourself doing things that you enjoy, spend time with people that love you and they can reflect back things that are realistic and positive about you instead of all of the distortions and negativity reflected back to you from a pwBPD.

[Voi]

I appreciate the advice given here. I think I have the situation under control at the moment, but I wouldn't be surprised if the situation returned.

You're right that I need to be kinder to myself. I think that's what's bothering me the most: knowing I was manipulated as part of some ego game.

There's more to the story, of course, but those are the basics.

When I think about it it's kind of funny in a way. Even if we both were single, which we are not, I would never want to be in a relationship with this person knowing what I know. I feel bad for their spouse, to be honest. But it's amazing what can happen when someone actually just listens; I was flattered to have an audience. All these websites giving advice on how to charm someone or pick someone up when actually most people just want someone to talk to. My spouse and I were arguing a lot and it's almost like this person sensed it. Strange.

But I do feel better talking about it with people who seem to understand. Thanks. At the moment I need to find a way to try to forgive and forget that someone messed with my head like that because it's not making me feel any better holding in all that anger/guilt. It isn't easy but from what I've been reading these people don't even know they're doing it.

I'm trying to see a silver lining in all of this. I've never cheated but now I really realize that if I did I would feel so miserable I couldn't handle it. I didn't even do anything and I feel bad. So maybe life's trying to teach me something.

[Grey Kitty]

I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective on what you did right and what you did wrong to get yourself in this situation.

I think having an emotionally intimate friendship (not romantic/sexual) with another person, regardless of gender is a good thing for you, and for your marriage. Including one where you can share some intimate details about your marriage for support and perspective, when you might need it during difficult times or conflicts.

However, any time you are intimate and vulnerable with another person, you have to trust them with whatever you shared. And the more intimate or sensitive the subject, the more trustworthy you need your confidant to be.

Clearly somebody with BPD or BPD traits is the wrong person to choose. That was the significant mistake, and that is why you have regrets.

Had you chosen somebody more trustworthy, more emotionally healthy, I'd suggest that only minor adjustment to what you did would have been needed, if anything.


  Not sharing intimate/private things with this person will "keep you out of trouble" pretty effectively; you don't need to change that.

However, since you will have to work alongside this person whether you want to or not, you might do well to work out how to communicate and relate with somebody who has BPD or BPD traits anyways. (We have a lot of resources here!)

I'm suggesting it because if you work on the tools we have here, you will find that they will help you in other relationships as well, easing difficult relationships, and improving good ones, so your time won't be "wasted" on this one difficult person.

One of the best ways to learn this kind of thing is to post here how unpleasant conversations went, and what you could have done differently.

[Notwendy]

Please don't be hard on yourself. I think you have good boundaries about work relationships and understand that you crossed a line during an emotionally vulnerable time. However- the other person played a part in this too by encouraging the discussion. She has poor boundaries to do this. You mentioned she enjoyed this. This was selfish of her.

I understand the concept of a "work family" and it can be a good thing. However- for a relationship to be mutually beneficial- each person should act in the best interest of each other. I do know some personal information about my male coworker and he also knows about me. We might share info about our kids, or gripe about politics. I know what church he goes to. But discussing marriages is off the table. It almost seems opposite- but the stronger the boundaries- the closer the relationship can be because of a mutual trust and respect. If I even get the sense that someone has poor boundaries at work I speak as little as possible.

Should a male colleague or friend ever confide in me about his marriage- it would be in both our best interests for me to help suggest a counselor or clergy to help, not proceed in anything that would cause harm.

I've been on the receiving end of this. Years ago a female colleague of my husband pursued him and it was distressing. However- there are women in his office who have been good friends to him and I don't worry at all about this.

I think this might be a lesson in boundaries- and I commend you for realizing this and upholding yours. Best to leave discussions of marriage off the table, but you can talk to your colleagues- just get a better boundary sensor.

[Voi]

Please don't be hard on yourself. I think you have good boundaries about work relationships and understand that you crossed a line during an emotionally vulnerable time. However- the other person played a part in this too by encouraging the discussion. She has poor boundaries to do this. You mentioned she enjoyed this. This was selfish of her.

I understand the concept of a "work family" and it can be a good thing. However- for a relationship to be mutually beneficial- each person should act in the best interest of each other. I do know some personal information about my male coworker and he also knows about me. We might share info about our kids, or gripe about politics. I know what church he goes to. But discussing marriages is off the table. It almost seems opposite- but the stronger the boundaries- the closer the relationship can be because of a mutual trust and respect. If I even get the sense that someone has poor boundaries at work I speak as little as possible.

Should a male colleague or friend ever confide in me about his marriage- it would be in both our best interests for me to help suggest a counselor or clergy to help, not proceed in anything that would cause harm.

I've been on the receiving end of this. Years ago a female colleague of my husband pursued him and it was distressing. However- there are women in his office who have been good friends to him and I don't worry at all about this.

I think this might be a lesson in boundaries- and I commend you for realizing this and upholding yours. Best to leave discussions of marriage off the table, but you can talk to your colleagues- just get a better boundary sensor.

I agree with all of this and don't really have much to add.

It's interesting. I never would have thought this could happen. I think I've been kind of naive, maybe.

Saw the therapist today. His recommendation? Try to make this person lose interest and find someone else to bother because once people like this start playing games it never ends until they get bored. He strongly recommend that this person has to "fire" me because otherwise it'll be be war.

Ugh. He also advised trying to not think about it too much. If only it were that easy. Kind of hard to forget that someone took you for a ride for 6 months.

Interesting about the "selfish" comment. This person has described themselves as selfish many times. In their view everyone is selfish. What a miserable way to look at life.

I think I know what to do but it feels good to vent.

This kind of reminds me of when I quit drinking several years ago. Realizing it's unhealthy is the first step, I suppose.