Questions to ask your exBPD

[g2outfitter]

Grrrrrr... .I HATE BAD DAYS!

I've only been NC for 9 days... .and this one has been HARD!

I wrote out an email this morning to my exBPD but didn't send it - so I am going to send it here instead.  I wanted to ask her the following questions (it's my internal struggle - going from supreme idealization to devaluation):

What did I mean to you?  What was I to you?

How do you think your exBPD would respond to these questions?

[Caretaker2]

I think I'm at around the same number of NC days as you. I feel bad for my exwBPD sometimes and that makes me want to reach out, then I'll feel angry about everything and then want to ask questions like the ones you posted.

I think the big thing here is being able to find yourself again. When you get closer to that, these thoughts will probably stop hitting so hard. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[once removed]

How do you think your exBPD would respond to these questions?

uncertainty and possibly impulsively - likely the same way we would, at this stage.

[abraxus]

I think it would be down to how she was feeling at the time she received the questions, and of course you can't predict that, as well as the effect of you asking them.

So, do you really want those answers, no matter what they might be, or do you want them to be what you want to hear? Whether good or bad, you still have to accept that they'll be answers that only apply that day, and could change the next, so ultimately you'll be back to square one.

For me, I think my ex might feel a little pressured by them and so, even raising the question might affect how she answered. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but for example, if she felt I meant a lot, the pressure of being asked to verbalise it might make her respond differently, and so really I'd be none the wiser.

It's a bit like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, or the "observer effect". Think of her answer like a quark, a quantum particle. You have no idea of what its state is. However, the minute you try to examine its state, your examination has an effect on that state.

So, my personal belief is that you have nothing to gain from asking them.

[Skip]

What did I mean to you?  What was I to you?

People with BPD are impulsive in their emotions... .and they are weak with executive function (e.g., seeing the longer term ramifications of what they say).

In any relationship this is a loaded and difficult question to answer for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is guilt or not wanting to lead you on, shame, etc.  With a person with impulsive emotions and weak with executive function, its far more complex.

She a serial cheater. That is a special case in its own. It's a tough thing to deal with.

You are dealing with betrayal trauma. It's a big hit for anyone.

[g2outfitter]

I think I'm at around the same number of NC days as you. I feel bad for my exwBPD sometimes and that makes me want to reach out, then I'll feel angry about everything and then want to ask questions like the ones you posted.

I think the big thing here is being able to find yourself again. When you get closer to that, these thoughts will probably stop hitting so hard. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

Very true... .when I find myself again then the answers she would provide are irrelevant.  More importantly, the answer to "What do I mean to myself?" is what matters.

[jonmnemonic]

Ask yourself why you want your ex to answer those questions and why the answers are important to you.  You're pretty fresh in going NC but as time passes you'll find it easier to detach and you'll "require" fewer answers from your ex.

[g2outfitter]

I think it would be down to how she was feeling at the time she received the questions, and of course you can't predict that, as well as the effect of you asking them.

So, do you really want those answers, no matter what they might be, or do you want them to be what you want to hear? Whether good or bad, you still have to accept that they'll be answers that only apply that day, and could change the next, so ultimately you'll be back to square one.

For me, I think my ex might feel a little pressured by them and so, even raising the question might affect how she answered. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but for example, if she felt I meant a lot, the pressure of being asked to verbalise it might make her respond differently, and so really I'd be none the wiser.

It's a bit like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, or the "observer effect". Think of her answer like a quark, a quantum particle. You have no idea of what its state is. However, the minute you try to examine its state, your examination has an effect on that state.

So, my personal belief is that you have nothing to gain from asking them.

I hear you abraxus... .I guess I want her to tell me what I want to hear, what I always wanted to hear which is... ."you were someone that loved me like no one else before and you did all you could. I have a disorder and no matter what you did or how hard you tried to help me, I just couldn't be helped.  Unfortunately, you were no different than any other person I have been with.  That being said, take credit in the fact that our relationship lasted longer than any other I have ever had and that is solely due to your efforts.  Any other woman would have felt like the luckiest lady on earth to have been treated the way you treated me but I'm incapable of feeling that way.  You deserved better and I am sorry for what I did to you."

I would have a better chance of getting pigs to fly out my arse than to get that response... .even if she felt it at that moment,  .

At several times during our relationship she would say things similar to that.  I don't know why I need her validation now.  

You are also right about feeling pressure - she absolutely hated any situation in which she felt pressured.  It would always alter her actions or words.  She had to be the one in control at all times.  Occasionally she would admit that she had mental issues (but she would never fully admit to being Borderline, mainly because she was a nurse and she admitted BPD patients are the worst.  She also admitted that at times she was practically impossible to deal with, but those admissions had to be at a time she felt safe and comfortable stating it - so it couldn't be used against her.  If I ever brought up those issues as a way to validate a situation or help her recognize her irrational impulsive behavior then there would be no way to get her to admit her issues or see things in a different light.

Asking her would be a no win situation... .and I know that.

[g2outfitter]

People with BPD are impulsive in their emotions... .and they are weak with executive function (e.g., seeing the longer term ramifications of what they say).

In any relationship this is a loaded and difficult question to answer for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is guilt or not wanting to lead you on, shame, etc.  With a person with impulsive emotions and weak with executive function, its far more complex.

She a serial cheater. That is a special case in its own. It's a tough thing to deal with.

You are dealing with betrayal trauma. It's a big hit for anyone.

Thanks Skip... .everything you said is true. 

She rarely thought out the long term ramifications of what said or especially what she does.  As a minor example, in our three years together she picked up from the animal shelter three cats and two dogs.  This would happen every single time I would be out of town for more than two days.  One time I came home and she had bought six chickens and a chicken coop... .we lived in town.  This was her way of combating the feeling of being alone while I was gone.  Of course two weeks later she would be asking if we could take the dogs back because she was tired of feeding them and having them tear up our backyard.  I would always ask her if she thought about that before she went to get them.

This is the second time she broke up with me out of the blue, each time within hours of telling me how much she loved me.  After the first time she admitted that her actions were very rash.  She cheated the first time and I suspect she did it again this time.  She never admitted to cheating in previous relationships but I suspect it was just another lie that she had convinced herself was true.

Yes, the betrayal trauma has got my head in a vice, and it seems to be tightening by the day.

[g2outfitter]

Ask yourself why you want your ex to answer those questions and why the answers are important to you.  You're pretty fresh in going NC but as time passes you'll find it easier to detach and you'll "require" fewer answers from your ex.

Thanks jon... .you're right, eventually I won't need any answers.  They will be irrelevant anyway... .it sure wouldn't change the past.

[abraxus]

I hear you abraxus... .I guess I want her to tell me what I want to hear, what I always wanted to hear which is... ."you were someone that loved me like no one else before and you did all you could. I have a disorder and no matter what you did or how hard you tried to help me, I just couldn't be helped.  Unfortunately, you were no different than any other person I have been with.  That being said, take credit in the fact that our relationship lasted longer than any other I have ever had and that is solely due to your efforts.  Any other woman would have felt like the luckiest lady on earth to have been treated the way you treated me but I'm incapable of feeling that way.  You deserved better and I am sorry for what I did to you."

I would have a better chance of getting pigs to fly out my arse than to get that response... .even if she felt it at that moment,  .

At several times during our relationship she would say things similar to that.  I don't know why I need her validation now.  

You are also right about feeling pressure - she absolutely hated any situation in which she felt pressured.  It would always alter her actions or words.  She had to be the one in control at all times.  Occasionally she would admit that she had mental issues (but she would never fully admit to being Borderline, mainly because she was a nurse and she admitted BPD patients are the worst.  She also admitted that at times she was practically impossible to deal with, but those admissions had to be at a time she felt safe and comfortable stating it - so it couldn't be used against her.  If I ever brought up those issues as a way to validate a situation or help her recognize her irrational impulsive behavior then there would be no way to get her to admit her issues or see things in a different light.

Asking her would be a no win situation... .and I know that.

That's good that you can see it for what it is, even though it's natural to want to ask those questions, and even get the answers you want to hear.

So, take it a step further, and imagine you did get the answer you wanted. Would that make it easier to let go, or harder? My guess is the latter.

You got those answers, at a time when it counted, during your relationship. That reality is as true now as it was then, but it was the reality at the time, and now the time is different. Sure, you want to feel that you meant something, and you did; but you have to accept that she is who she is, and that whatever you meant to her can't change that. It's her that wasn't able to live up to that, or be who she needed to be, and not you. It's natural for people to wonder whether they did enough, or could have done more, but they couldn't, as it wasn't them who needed to do more but the other person. The fact they didn't, didn't mean that they didn't care as much, and was simply because they were unable to.

Trust me, it must be as frustrating for them as it for us, which is why it's less her wanting to be the one in control all the time, and more about her not wanting to be so out of control. It's a subtle difference in some ways, but huge in others.

[g2outfitter]

That's good that you can see it for what it is, even though it's natural to want to ask those questions, and even get the answers you want to hear.

So, take it a step further, and imagine you did get the answer you wanted. Would that make it easier to let go, or harder? My guess is the latter.

You got those answers, at a time when it counted, during your relationship. That reality is as true now as it was then, but it was the reality at the time, and now the time is different. Sure, you want to feel that you meant something, and you did; but you have to accept that she is who she is, and that whatever you meant to her can't change that. It's her that wasn't able to live up to that, or be who she needed to be, and not you. It's natural for people to wonder whether they did enough, or could have done more, but they couldn't, as it wasn't them who needed to do more but the other person. The fact they didn't, didn't mean that they didn't care as much, and was simply because they were unable to.

Trust me, it must be as frustrating for them as it for us, which is why it's less her wanting to be the one in control all the time, and more about her not wanting to be so out of control. It's a subtle difference in some ways, but huge in others.

Well said... .thank you very much!  And yes, it was more about her not wanting to be so out of control... .or the admission of such.

[Idsrvt2]

He would say that he enjoyed our time together and that he was happy that he knew i felt happy.   that is usually how he answered any questions after i was dumped

[g2outfitter]

That's good that you can see it for what it is, even though it's natural to want to ask those questions, and even get the answers you want to hear.

So, take it a step further, and imagine you did get the answer you wanted. Would that make it easier to let go, or harder? My guess is the latter.

You got those answers, at a time when it counted, during your relationship. That reality is as true now as it was then, but it was the reality at the time, and now the time is different. Sure, you want to feel that you meant something, and you did; but you have to accept that she is who she is, and that whatever you meant to her can't change that. It's her that wasn't able to live up to that, or be who she needed to be, and not you. It's natural for people to wonder whether they did enough, or could have done more, but they couldn't, as it wasn't them who needed to do more but the other person. The fact they didn't, didn't mean that they didn't care as much, and was simply because they were unable to.

Trust me, it must be as frustrating for them as it for us, which is why it's less her wanting to be the one in control all the time, and more about her not wanting to be so out of control. It's a subtle difference in some ways, but huge in others.

One other thing that is so hard to accept... .the shallow meaning of their words and how they can be so fleeting.  It's hard to fathom when my exBPD would tell me how much she loved me and how much she was committed to us that it really was only meant for that precise moment.  That her emotions just floated on the surface and could so easily be swept away by the wind or current at that time.  When I tell someone I love them and always will... .I don't say it lightly - there is real depth to that.

It's hard to constantly be in a relationship that lives "in that moment" instead of it being viewed as a complete body of work.  I always told her, don't focus on the one thing I just did to upset you, but concentrate on the million other things I've done to make you happy.  That was almost impossible for her to do.  We had a large mason jar in our kitchen and in the drawer we kept white marbles and black marbles (ironic since BPD's paint people either white or black).  She put a white marble in the jar whenever I did something that made her happy and a black one for any time that I upset her.  It amazes me that when she ended it for the last time, the jar was basically full and all you could see were three black marbles.

I don't know any other game in which the object is to get the most white marbles and at the end of the game you look up at the scoreboard and see that you just played the best game of your life - almost flawless.  The score is 187 white - 3 black.  

And then the referee informs you that you just lost.

[abraxus]

Guess what? If the score was 190 white and 0 black, you'd have still lost.

The marbles aren't the reason for why someone leaves, they're just the excuse. So no point in keeping score.

Try not think of their words as fleeting and shallow. Lot's of people fall in love, say things they really mean, and then fall out of love, and those words no longer hold that meaning. It's just that the transition seems much faster for someone with BPD.

In many ways their emotions don't float on the surface, they run deep. Often deeper than most, and so they express them more deeply, which is why they seem so captivating and alluring. However, once they hit a certain depth, the bubble bursts, and they bob right up to the surface again, to be quickly carried away by the tides. It's just the nature of the disorder, and there's nothing they, or we, can do about it.

[g2outfitter]

Guess what? If the score was 190 white and 0 black, you'd have still lost.

The marbles aren't the reason for why someone leaves, they're just the excuse. So no point in keeping score.

Try not think of their words as fleeting and shallow. Lot's of people fall in love, say things they really mean, and then fall out of love, and those words no longer hold that meaning. It's just that the transition seems much faster for someone with BPD.

In many ways their emotions don't float on the surface, they run deep. Often deeper than most, and so they express them more deeply, which is why they seem so captivating and alluring. However, once they hit a certain depth, the bubble bursts, and they bob right up to the surface again, to be quickly carried away by the tides. It's just the nature of the disorder, and there's nothing they, or we, can do about it.

I understand that there is nothing anyone can do.  It's just that my exBPD told me in the end that she never did love me, from the very beginning.  Actually she said that she always loved me and still did... .but was never "in love" with me.  Really, never?  I'm not sure why anyone would be with someone they were never "in love" with for three years.  Anyway, three full years of constant "I LOVE YOU TONS!" texts/emails/conversations... .discredited in one 20 second comment. 

Perhaps if she would have said, "Yes, I was deeply in love with you at one time (as a matter of fact as soon as two days ago when we had great sex and I told you I was) but the bubble burst today and I'm just not anymore.  Now can you get every single thing out by Sunday?  I'm flying to Trinidad-Tobago to spend six days with a complete stranger I just contacted on a dating site and I need you gone by the time I get back." I could possibly give more credence to your "emotions running deep" argument  !

Seriously, I get your point though.

[abraxus]

Well I guess the problem is trying to understand a disordered mind, in the context of a normal one. It just won't work.

There's no point trying to make sense of it, as the things she says are just her attempts to make sense of it herself, and she can't, at least not rationally. That's why it's sounds so confusing and irrational, because it is.

She can't say she was deeply in love with you at one time, because then she'd have to try and figure out why she isn't now, which is something she can't process, and so it's easier to convince herself otherwise.

[Skip]

Guess what? If the score was 190 white and 0 black, you'd have still lost.

The marbles aren't the reason for why someone leaves, they're just the excuse. So no point in keeping score.

Try not think of their words as fleeting and shallow. Lot's of people fall in love, say things they really mean, and then fall out of love, and those words no longer hold that meaning. It's just that the transition seems much faster for someone with BPD.

In many ways their emotions don't float on the surface, they run deep. Often deeper than most, and so they express them more deeply, which is why they seem so captivating and alluring. However, once they hit a certain depth, the bubble bursts, and they bob right up to the surface again, to be quickly carried away by the tides. It's just the nature of the disorder, and there's nothing they, or we, can do about it.

These are really good points. They are points we can make about any romantic relationship. It's really important to not forget that a pwBPD traits functions, deep down, exactly as we do - they just swing higher and lower and tend to not filter their impulses.

Well I guess the problem is trying to understand a disordered mind, in the context of a normal one. It just won't work.

I don't subscribe to the concept of a "mind that is incomprehensible" - it is very comprehensible when we understand that a pwBPD is heavily driven by an emotional (not logical) mindset - they are impulsive - they don't think of long term consequences - they have high rejection sensitivity.

When we were on the receiving end of this it was great - we often think we understood that person. When we were on the losing end - we often think this is an alien mind.

It's was one person.

I also don't subscribe that we (as a group) are "normal." A lot of us have anyone of a myriad of emotional shortcoming that also handicap us in love relationships.

[bus boy]

Hi g2outfitter, this is my experience and any you know every r/s is different, disordered or not. Since I did not experience the highs of the idolize stage but had extra heaping helpings of devalue and discard. The answer to that question is simple, I would not ask that question bc I know I would be slapped with a heart wrenching demoralizing emotionally crippling answer.

[g2outfitter]

Well I guess the problem is trying to understand a disordered mind, in the context of a normal one. It just won't work.

There's no point trying to make sense of it, as the things she says are just her attempts to make sense of it herself, and she can't, at least not rationally. That's why it's sounds so confusing and irrational, because it is.

She can't say she was deeply in love with you at one time, because then she'd have to try and figure out why she isn't now, which is something she can't process, and so it's easier to convince herself otherwise.

Bingo!... .trying to understand a disordered mind, in the context of a normal one - doesn't work.  Now if I can just keep that thought repeating in my head I won't drive myself to a disordered state!

You're so right... .she was truly conflicted when she ended it because she absolutely had no answer to the question "Why am I not in love anymore?" She had no logical reason to be.  That's why she still hasn't told her family we aren't together anymore (she keeps lying to them on where I am when they call or ask).  They all thought I was the best thing to ever happen to her so she doesn't want to have to answer to them on why she ended things.  All she could say is... ."I have no idea... .seemed the thing to do at that moment".

I agree with you when you say it must be just as confusing for the BPD as it is for us.

[abraxus]

These are really good points. They are points we can make about any romantic relationship. It's really important to not forget that a pwBPD traits functions, deep down, exactly as we do - they just swing higher and lower and tend to not filter their impulses.

I don't subscribe to the concept of a "mind that is incomprehensible" - it is very comprehensible when we understand that a pwBPD is heavily driven by an emotional (not logical) mindset - they are impulsive - they don't think of long term consequences - they have high rejection sensitivity.

I agree with that very much Skip, in that they do function exactly like we do, but just with much tighter tolerances, and more extreme reactions. So yes, I think it is comprehensible, but often that's with hindsight, which makes relationships harder, as you need to be able to comprehend it on the fly, and adjust accordingly.

I think in many ways we're all emotionally driven, after all why buy the fancy car over the practical one. It's just that we're able to regulate those emotions better.

[g2outfitter]

Hi g2outfitter, this is my experience and any you know every r/s is different, disordered or not. Since I did not experience the highs of the idolize stage but had extra heaping helpings of devalue and discard. The answer to that question is simple, I would not ask that question bc I know I would be slapped with a heart wrenching demoralizing emotionally crippling answer.

Ouch... .sorry bus boy.  That part of the BPD mind is really cold and cruel.

[g2outfitter]

These are really good points. They are points we can make about any romantic relationship. It's really important to not forget that a pwBPD traits functions, deep down, exactly as we do - they just swing higher and lower and tend to not filter their impulses.

I don't subscribe to the concept of a "mind that is incomprehensible" - it is very comprehensible when we understand that a pwBPD is heavily driven by an emotional (not logical) mindset - they are impulsive - they don't think of long term consequences - they have high rejection sensitivity.

When we were on the receiving end of this it was great - we often think we understood that person. When we were on the losing end - we often think this is an alien mind.

It's was one person.

I also don't subscribe that we (as a group) are "normal." A lot of us have anyone of a myriad of emotional shortcoming that also handicap us in love relationships.

Good points Skip. 

I definitely won't move my foot if someone asks for all the "normal" people to step forward. 

However, it's the difficulty of actually accepting the fact that this person is actually one person - when they act like two different people at the snap of a finger.  Without any knowledge of BPD (as I had during the first part of our relationship) - it does seem incomprehensible.

[Skip]

You saw here pop in and out of three men's lives on impulse and emotion.

Switch on, off, on, off... .

Everyone on the receiving end thought she was great... .on the losing end, its was much more confusing.