Introduction

[DonnaQuixote]

So I just joined and think this is supposed to be my introductory post.  I'm a 35-year-old, married mom of 2 young kids.  About a year and a half ago my husband and I went through a rough patch and saw a marriage counselor.  In the course of that counseling, the therapist asked me to revisit some things from my childhood, and it dredged up all sorts of stuff I'd forgotten about.  It definitely took the lid off of something, and I just can't seem to put it back on.

It never occurred to me that my mom could be BPD.  I knew she was diagnosed with Bi-Polar at one point, but she wasn't "abusive" or low-functioning that I can remember, and she always said other people in my family (dad, sister) were BPD, sociopath, etc.  My sister is a narcotics addict.  They say you can't assess mental illness while a person is using, but a lot of the BPD descriptions really do seem to fit my sister.  I have a harder time seeing how they fit my mom, but so many times in therapy I would describe a situation from my family and the therapist would say, "Gosh, that really sounds like Borderline."

I try to stay away from internet-searching on psychology, for fear of falling into what my mom does, which is decide on a mental problem, or health condition, or other "reality" that she wants to be the case, and then she selects or twists symptoms to fit it.  But the other day I couldn't help myself and did some Googling, and kept coming across this narrative where a BPD woman marries a Narcissist man, and disaster ensues.  Fits my family to a T.  Also explains why my dad, who I always thought would be the best grandpa ever, doesn't seem interested in my kids.

Now my mom is raising my nephew (addict sister's son).  I'm pretty sure she has him on medications for some things that aren't real.  I don't know if that's part of BPD, but I feel so helpless to do anything for him.  And one of the hallmarks of my parent's relationship was a 3-year long divorce and custody battle in which they spent their entire life savings and more, alienated just about all their friends, and basically made home-life a war zone for me and my siblings.  For the past 8 years she's been in a similar custody battle with my sister over my nephew.  They go to court every 3 weeks or so.  Growing up, I spent a few years in this war zone and it definitely affected me, and now my nephew has to spend his entire life in it.  My mom always has to have her villain.

I feel like I don't know what's real.  There are so many incidents in my family that are extreme or abnormal, yet none seems to fit the definition of abuse.  I definitely don't want to cry wolf about that... .it's another one of the things my mom does.  I feel like I need to talk to a real person about all this, but then there's no abuse, so what's the big fat deal?  Why am I making mountains out of molehills?  Or is it the opposite, and this is all really bad and I'm failing to recognize it b/c it's what I grew up with?  I don't want to fail my kids or be an inadequate mother or wife... .my husband and kids deserve better than that!

Anyway, not sure what to do, and can't seem to find any real live in-person support groups for adult children of BPD's, so here I am.  Hoping to learn something from this group!

[Mutt]

Hi DonnaQuixote,  



It sounds like you did some digging in counselling and you're exploring your FOO ( family of origin) and i'd like to say I don't think that you're making a mountain out of a molehill, I think self reflection leads to understanding ourselves, r/s's ( relationships) and how interact with others. When it comes to a pwBPD, there are maladaptive coping mechanism's a pwBPD can't self manage and are dependent on others, that being said.

For the past 8 years she's been in a similar custody battle with my sister over my nephew.  They go to court every 3 weeks or so.  Growing up, I spent a few years in this war zone and it definitely affected me, and now my nephew has to spend his entire life in it.  My mom always has to have her villain.

I see this as a couple of different ways, going to court every month telegraphs that she's attention seeking, negative attention is still attention and I think that you said it correctly when you said she makes others into villains.

If she is BPD, only a professional can diagnose, what we can look at are BPD traits. BPD is a persecution complex where the person believes that things that happen to them are not because of their actions / choices, it's cause externally by others. So, a pwBPD cast themselves as victims and sometimes rescuer and will cast others in the role of persecutor or rescuer.

The courts, your sister and your mom make three points along a triangle, when pressure becomes difficult to cope with in a r/s, people will sometimes seek a third party. Often it's a person sometimes it can be something like work, working long hours to avoid your partner because there's conflict in the r/s or it can be court in this case.

A court room is a perfect setting for a high conflict personality because it splits you into two parties and encourages conflict, triangulation is not a conflict resolution dynamic, it's the opposite, it enables blame, conflict and drama. I take it that your mom was dramatic growing up?

Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

Welcome to bpdfamily, you're not alone.

[DonnaQuixote]

Hi Mutt,

Thanks for replying.  Yes, "exploring my FOO"... .  You ask if my mom was dramatic growing up.  It's hard for me to say, because not having a good reference point for "normal" is something I'm really struggling with.  I guess there are lots of examples of times when she did get dramatic, but on a day-to-day basis she was often normal?  Dramatic things were like:

- Calling the police if my dad wanted to come inside her apartment during a kid-swap after they separated (happened a couple of times... .he was being a jerk but not physically threatening her... .)

- Sending my siblings and myself away in a taxi saying she couldn't afford to keep us and we'd never see her again (happened a couple of times; in one case when I was 13, I think the term is "splitting me black," she told me I was destroying her family and had to go away)

- Saying my dad raped her and tortured her with sleep deprivation, and was abusive in other ways.  I guess it's possible those things could have happened, but more likely he was probably being an insensitive jerk but she took it to the next level with her language.

- One of her only friends asked recently if some extended family can stay at her (my mom's) house for a graduation, so my mom goes out and buys a brand new expensive bed, mattress and box springs, which she can't afford.  Then the friend's family doesn't need to stay with her after all, so she's mad at the friend.  I see her starting to split on this woman; suspect she will soon fall completely out of favor.

Casting herself as a victim FOR SURE.  That happened a lot.  I think the long drawn-out court battles with my dad (then) and sister (now) definitely give her an outlet for blame, conflict and drama as you say.

So I dunno.  Lots of families go to court, and I'm sure she's not the only person to have ever called the police on her ex.  Not a lot of moms probably send their kids away in taxis, but does that make her BPD and should it affect us now as adults?  I always thought those things were just extreme examples and the stress of the divorce was to blame, but maybe it is a continued pattern of behavior.  I live in a different state now, so I'm somewhat distanced from it.  But my nephew lives with it every day and I wonder if I should try to remove him if there really is a disorder going on.

Hi DonnaQuixote,  



It sounds like you did some digging in counselling and you're exploring your FOO ( family of origin) and i'd like to say I don't think that you're making a mountain out of a molehill, I think self reflection leads to understanding ourselves, r/s's ( relationships) and how interact with others. When it comes to a pwBPD, there are maladaptive coping mechanism's a pwBPD can't self manage and are dependent on others, that being said.

I see this as a couple of different ways, going to court every month telegraphs that she's attention seeking, negative attention is still attention and I think that you said it correctly when you said she makes others into villains.

If she is BPD, only a professional can diagnose, what we can look at are BPD traits. BPD is a persecution complex where the person believes that things that happen to them are not because of their actions / choices, it's cause externally by others. So, a pwBPD cast themselves as victims and sometimes rescuer and will cast others in the role of persecutor or rescuer.

The courts, your sister and your mom make three points along a triangle, when pressure becomes difficult to cope with in a r/s, people will sometimes seek a third party. Often it's a person sometimes it can be something like work, working long hours to avoid your partner because there's conflict in the r/s or it can be court in this case.

A court room is a perfect setting for a high conflict personality because it splits you into two parties and encourages conflict, triangulation is not a conflict resolution dynamic, it's the opposite, it enables blame, conflict and drama. I take it that your mom was dramatic growing up?

Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

Welcome to bpdfamily, you're not alone.

[Mutt]

Hi  :)onnaQuixote,

I'm sorry that you went through that growing up  What a horrible experience for a child to go through. I'm glad that you chose to join us.

t's hard for me to say, because not having a good reference point for "normal" is something I'm really struggling with.

I'm not a lawyer, I can't offer you legal advice. It's difficult to prove a mental illness when she's not diagnosed, she'd have to talk to P ( psychiatrist ) to get a diagnosis.

I think that you have a good point, a reference point would help your nephew, someone that is emotionally stable, I have 50/50 custody with my kids, it's chaotic at mom's house and it's calm at mine, I provide them a safe haven to unwind, relax, be themselves, and nurture them, I give them a reference point to help them with their future.

Do you have contact with your nephew?

[DonnaQuixote]

Yes, but only about twice a year now as they live halfway across the country and I have my own family, so it's expensive to fly.  I was in closer contact with him until he was about 4, and now for the past few years I've just been so busy with my own kids it's been harder.  But I think I need to just make more of an effort, write letters, schedule skype dates, etc.  My mom is very supportive of him having a relationship with me and my family, but doesn't seem to want him to come visit me without her being present.  She also complains about how hard it is to manage childcare for him during the summer when school is out, and how she never gets a break, but won't let him do an overnight camp.  So I'm going out to visit them in June.  Will also hopefully get to check in on my sister (who is a textbook low-functioning BPD), though she has been minimizing contact lately.

I'm starting to wonder if my mom actually has been diagnosed and just keeps it a secret.  She often says other people are BPD, and I recognize a lot of the book titles from the reading lists on this site as titles I've seen on her bookshelves before ("Stop walking on eggshells," ":)ance of Anger," etc).  When I've asked her about her Bi-Polar diagnosis in the past she won't talk about it.