What Do You Do When They Both Ask You To Forgive Them?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

She started her affair in the summer of 2013. Early in 2014, she finally was able to move out comfortably for her.  With the help of the communication tools (and support) on this site, we secured joint custody of then S4 and D2. A year later,  they announced their engagement.  No surprise, but it still angered, though not devastated,  me.  She was her own person. My T, not a fan of hers at all (he saw her twice before she quit therapy because I was the one with the issues after all), helped me detach.  She was her own entity,  free to do what she wanted,  no matter how wrong it was and no matter how much I disagreed with it. 

That summer they were married and cohabitating. It took about 3 months for her server depression to kick in. I received hints of regret.  Months later,  fights,  and calling me on the phone, sobbing with regret.  Then major drama: DV. Mostly her, but he was a bad player as well. I watched this like a Hawk,  ready to report it given one time was in front of our kids.  She asked me to forgive her.  I think I did.  Well... .I did.  I think.  No,  I do.

Finally the week of this last Christmas there was another incident,  a week away from them moving out on each other.  D awoke to the cops in their apartment. I think she only shared it surg me because she thought D4 might tell me.  They were lucky one or both of them weren't arrested that night.  She said the cops told them this.  She moved out  days later. 

A year ago,  I observed the way she treated him.  I was only at two family events with the both of them.  Our kids told me other things,  including S being sad at how their mother treated him.  I talked to her about it (for the sake of the kids).  She admitted it wasn't healthy,  but of course it didn't change.

I had met with him over the summer to give him advice on how to handle DV, taking tips from our info here. I had given her similar advice.  The Christmas incident proved that my advice stuck with neither of them.  I did what I could for the sake of everybody,  just short of reporting them. 

She moved out; calm.  I go out to lunch with her and the kids every other week.  No discussion of what's going on with her.

A month ago, not hearing from him since the fall,  I got a text from him with a picture of the kids.  I waited a week to respond,  "what's up?"

Two weeks later,  I get a one sentence response,  paraphrased, "forgive me for sinning against you."

So I threw him that bone, along with a little advice, but I didn't say anything that I wouldn't want to deal with if my ex saw it.  I'm not stupid.

He was basically a kid.  I was starting my career working for a Silicon Valley Fortune 500 tech company when I was 20, the year he was born.  My ex is almost 11 years younger than me. Though he is responsible for what which he is,  he was a kid,  basically,  which she lured in. She was in love with him more than me.  He received a higher high then I did.  On the other hand,  he received a lower low than I ever did.  In that,  I felt compassion, even apart from my anger at how it hurt the kids. 

I told me ex a story years ago. When I was about 23, I ran into a guy who had tormented me horribly in junior high.  It was bad.  When we entered high school,  I ended up on a different track. I never shared a class with him after freshman year. 

At 23, I think,  I ran into him exiting the bar at the bowling alley in the small county where we grew up. In graduated high school at 17. I was just over being skinny. He said, "hey Turkish,  you got big!" This was over a decade earlier than when I started lifting weights and could press 3 plates on both sides with no spotter. "Hey," he said, "about all that crap I used to give you.  I'm sorry." I forgave him at that moment. 

When I told my ex this story, even without the details,  she said, "I'd never do that!" So I knew where she was,  Bowen notwithstanding.

So yes, I do forgive him.  I wish I could talk to him more,  because I think I could help him,  especially given what I've learned here. However,  my primary focus is my kids.  I gave him a subtle warning, but as I said,  I told him nothing I didn't want to explain in case she saw it.  I returned to him what he offered to me.  It helps me further detach and move on. 

[Turkish]

She started her affair in the summer of 2013. Early in 2014, she finally was able to move out comfortably for her.  With the help of the communication tools (and support) on this site, we secured joint custody of then S4 and D2. A year later,  they announced their engagement.  No surprise, but it still angered, though not devastated,  me.  She was her own person. My T, not a fan of hers at all (he saw her twice before she quit therapy because I was the one with the issues after all), helped me detach.  She was her own entity,  free to do what she wanted,  no matter how wrong it was and no matter how much I disagreed with it. 

That summer they were married and cohabitating. It took about 3 months for her server depression to kick in. I received hints of regret.  Months later,  fights,  and calling me on the phone, sobbing with regret.  Then major drama: DV. Mostly her, but he was a bad player as well. I watched this like a Hawk,  ready to report it given one time was in front of our kids.  She asked me to forgive her.  I think I did.  Well... .I did.  I think.  No,  I do.

Finally the week of this last Christmas there was another incident,  a week away from them moving out on each other.  D awoke to the cops in their apartment. I think she only shared it surg me because she thought D4 might tell me.  They were lucky one or both of them weren't arrested that night.  She said the cops told them this.  She moved out  days later. 

A year ago,  I observed the way she treated him.  I was only at two family events with the both of them.  Our kids told me other things,  including S being sad at how their mother treated him.  I talked to her about it (for the sake of the kids).  She admitted it wasn't healthy,  but of course it didn't change.

I had met with him over the summer to give him advice on how to handle DV, taking tips from our info here. I had given her similar advice.  The Christmas incident proved that my advice stuck with neither of them.  I did what I could for the sake of everybody,  just short of reporting them. 

She moved out; calm.  I go out to lunch with her and the kids every other week.  No discussion of what's going on with her.

A month ago, not hearing from him since the fall,  I got a text from him with a picture of the kids.  I waited a week to respond,  "what's up?"

Two weeks later,  I get a one sentence response,  paraphrased, "forgive me for sinning against you."

So I threw him that bone, along with a little advice, but I didn't say anything that I wouldn't want to deal with if my ex saw it.  I'm not stupid.

He was basically a kid.  I was starting my career working for a Silicon Valley Fortune 500 tech company when I was 20, the year he was born.  My ex is almost 11 years younger than me. Though he is responsible for what which he is,  he was a kid,  basically,  which she lured in. She was in love with him more than me.  He received a higher high then I did.  On the other hand,  he received a lower low than I ever did.  In that,  I felt compassion, even apart from my anger at how it hurt the kids. 

I told me ex a story years ago. When I was about 23, I ran into a guy who had tormented me horribly in junior high.  It was bad.  When we entered high school,  I ended up on a different track. I never shared a class with him after freshman year. 

At 23, I think,  I ran into him exiting the bar at the bowling alley in the small county where we grew up. In graduated high school at 17. I was just over being skinny. He said, "hey Turkish,  you got big!" This was over a decade earlier than when I started lifting weights and could press 3 plates on both sides with no spotter. "Hey," he said, "about all that crap I used to give you.  I'm sorry." I forgave him at that moment. 

When I told my ex this story, even without the details,  she said, "I'd never do that!" So I knew where she was,  Bowen notwithstanding.

So yes, I do forgive him.  I wish I could talk to him more,  because I think I could help him,  especially given what I've learned here. However,  my primary focus is my kids.  I gave him a subtle warning, but as I said,  I told him nothing I didn't want to explain in case she saw it.  I returned to him what he offered to me.  It helps me further detach and move on. 

[heartandwhole]

So yes, I do forgive him.  I wish I could talk to him more,  because I think I could help him,  especially given what I've learned here. However,  my primary focus is my kids.  I gave him a subtle warning, but as I said,  I told him nothing I didn't want to explain in case she saw it.  I returned to him what he offered to me.  It helps me further detach and move on. 

That was a kind gesture, Turkish, which shows how big a heart you have.   I can fully understand the idea that you could help him. Unless he's asked for your help, however, I think it is probably best to leave him to help himself. That way he will learn and grow, at the pace that is right for him.

You feel compassion for him, and rightly so, in my view. I hope you are also extending that compassion to yourself. Forgiveness is your ticket to freedom. Well done. You've come a heck of a long way, Turkish, and it's wonderful to see the positive fruits of this very difficult experience. Keep on keepin' on, my friend.

heartandwhole

[Mutt]

Hi Turkish,

I think it is probably best to leave him to help himself. That way he will learn and grow, at the pace that is right for him.

You feel compassion for him, and rightly so, in my view. I hope you are also extending that compassion to yourself.

I agree with everything heartandwhole said, I just wanted to stress one point, take really good care of yourself.

[Grey Kitty]

Besides the affair, I'm sure your ex did a LOT of things for you to forgive. And I'm glad you've done that.

This guy, I'm not sure what he did that you need to forgive. Yeah, the affair, 'tho the way you describe it, I'd pin 80% of it on her, instead of on him.

If he harms your children, it would take a LOT to forgive that, but (I think!) he hasn't.

If he is cruel or abusive to your ex... .well... .you have boundaries... .that really isn't your issue anymore. Yeah, she's got stuff to forgive, but you, not so much.

Is there something I'm missing?

[Kwamina]

What Do You Do When They Both Ask You To Forgive Them?

I think you already answered your own question, you just do. Forgive them, let go of the past hurt as best you can and move on.

Two weeks later,  I get a one sentence response,  paraphrased, "forgive me for sinning against you."

Since religion was supposedly so important for him, he might be having some sort of spiritual crisis trying to reconcile his actions with his professed beliefs. Perhaps he is not just asking for forgiveness for sinning against you, but also for forgiveness for sinning against himself.

[Turkish]

GK, yeah, he wasn't entirely innocent regarding the abuse either, but she was the primary perp.

Parrot (Captain Red Beak), I think you may be onto something.  A kid I used to mentor on the at risk youth program I'm still in contact with.  He's 27, two years older then my Ex's H, to put it into perspective. 

Last night there was a school function.  An opportunity arose for me to ask what was going on.  As usual, because though split,  I've built trust for the sake of our kids,  she was very forthcoming.

They agreed to a 6 month split,  then a year, in order for him to pay off his debts.  She charged her credit card to help him buy a car.  He's making her payments.  She told him she's filing for divorce.  He said agreed upon a year.  She said too long. 

She said it had been a month since they had seen him. The last time he'd come over he'd reeked of pot. She always had a sensitive nose. He's lost and medicating to deal with his pain. I wish I could reach out to him, but my kids and my r/s with their mom come first. 

[Mutt]

I wish I could reach out to him, but my kids and my r/s with their mom come first.

Keep doing that