New Here - Undiagnosed Mother, Mother's Day question

[Lifestranger]

The last time I saw my mom was her birthday in January. During dinner she found it I had asked my SIL to watch my new baby when I went to work, and she  as upset that I did t ask her. So I got th silent treatment for six weeks- I text d 4-5 times but did not get an answer, so I dropped the rope. I don't have time for games and I'm not willing to chase her.

A family member mentioned a run in with my mom where she said she didn't have my new number. So I tect d her again, just a hey, my number hasn't changed. Heard you asked SIL.  She replied back with a guilt trip "ash I just wondered why I spent Easter alone". I was angry and told her she as giving me the silent treatment so I gave her space- next comes a barrage of texts about how she has heart problems and her doctor told her to turn her phone off for a month so she could rest completely (but she she was "allowed" to go to dinner where she met my SIL?). The texts were guilt tripping, and she said she didn't know what she'd ever done to make me upset. So I listed it out. She brought my alcoholic aunt to the hospital the day my daughter was born when she KNEW this aunt was cut off, she showed up when I was in labour after telling everyone not to, she saw my baby three times in. Three weeks and then told family I was cruel and withholding my daughter from her (she kept insisting I leave her alone with her to babysit, I didn't need a sitter!). I told her I didn't want excuses for above, but I needed a break.

She told me I got one. Forever. And to leave her alone. So I have. That was four weeks ago.

I don't know if she has BPD - I'm reading the book, surviving parents of BPD, which I hope will give me answers. But do I text her a happy Mother's Day? My husband thinks despite everything she's still my mother and still raised me. I feel bad if she has BPD but she's still manipulative and not healthy to be around. Thoughts?

Further background- she lied about having HIV. I knew it was a lie ( she was "stuck" by a needle at work). Then she wanted to explain a daycare working and suddenly it was a false diagnoses! Hurray! I never believed it at all so just rolled my eyes - but i found out a few weeks back she never told my brother it was a false diagnoses. He was gutted every time he saw her , that she might die, and he had to bring nephew around. He always gave her hell for not taking her "pills" - we have travelled together and they are vitamins!

This may be an insensitive question but are manipulative behaviours and lying part of BPD? Or would this be on top of BPD, if that's what she has? I don't know if o ever want to have a relationship with her. Sometimes I love her, but it's been a very long time. We were LC until I got pregnant and I don't want my daughter exposed

[Pale Shelter]

Lifestranger,

I've been there! I relate to everything you wrote. She certainly sounds BPD. Lying n manipulating is def part of it for many BPD parents. Don't text out of guilt. Do it if you want to. Even if you want to because it will cost you the least or give you less anxiety. Take care of yourself. I hope you have a Happy Mother's Day! You deserve it!

Best,
Pale Shelter

[copingwithmom]

I'm sorry you have to join this group but glad you came her for support. Yes, lying and manipulation are prevalent behaviors. In terms of texting, I have learned you have to do what you truly feel in your heart. Mother's Day is stressful for many of us. I have a wonderful son and plan to focus on time with him. Remember, BPDs are like empty vessels which can never be filled. While our hearts can ache for our mothers who suffer from this, and we don't want to cause more pain, if you don't take care of our emotional and physical needs then we won't be our best for anyone else. I have a lot of anxiety right now about tomorrow. I have dealt with this for many years. Sometimes it is easier than others. By the way, guilt is a tool they also use. We can choose to fall into that trap or free ourselves by doing whatever gives us peace.

[Panda39]

Hi Lifestranger,

I want to join Pale Shelter and copingwithmom and say Welcome 

Lying and Gaslighting are common behaviors of someone with BPD.  I actually discovered BPD by googling "Chronic Lying" related to my SO's (significant other's) uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife).  You are not alone experiencing this behavior.

They along with FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail are all used as ways to control you.

Below is some info on Gaslighting... .

Gaslighting  The term derives from the 1938 stage play Gas Light (originally known as Angel Street in the United States), and the 1940 and 1944 film adaptions. The plot concerns a husband who attempts to drive his wife to insanity by manipulating small elements of their environment, and insisting that she is mistaken or misremembering when she points out these changes. The title stems from the husband's subtle dimming of the house's gas lights, which she accurately notices and which the husband insists she's imagining.

"Gaslighting" has been used colloquially, since at least the mid 1970s, to describe psychologically upsetting manipulations of the type depicted in the play and film: In her 1980 book The Best Kept Secret: Sexual Abuse of Children[1] Florence Rush summarizes George Cukor's 1944 film version of Gas Light, and writes, "even today the word [gaslight] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality."

Sometimes the term is used here to suggest a premeditated effort to make someone think they are crazy? And while it may appear that way to us, but people with BPD are generally impulsive - not so premeditated.

More often what is happening is that we are willingly buying another persons distorted view?  People distort their own view of reality all the time - it's a defense mechanism.  

We have to be careful not to buy it.

The real issue is Cognitive Distortions and Anxiety on the part of the pwBPD and our willingness to jettison our own perception and except theirs.

Here are the common Cognitive Distortions according to David Burns, MD:

1. All-or-nothing thinking (splitting) – Thinking of things in absolute terms, like "always", "every", "never", and "there is no alternative". Few aspects of human behavior are so absolute. (See false dilemma.) All-or-nothing-thinking can contribute to depression. (See depression).

2. Overgeneralization – Taking isolated cases and using them to make wide generalizations. (See hasty generalization.)

3. Mental filter – Focusing almost exclusively on certain, usually negative or upsetting, aspects of an event while ignoring other positive aspects. For example, focusing on a tiny imperfection in a piece of otherwise useful clothing. (See misleading vividness.)

4. Disqualifying the positive – Continually reemphasizing or "shooting down" positive experiences for arbitrary, ad hoc reasons. (See special pleading.)

5. Jumping to conclusions – Drawing conclusions (usually negative) from little (if any) evidence. Two specific subtypes are also identified:

          * Mind reading – Assuming special knowledge of the intentions or thoughts of others.

          * Fortune telling – Exaggerating how things will turn out before they happen. (See slippery slope.)

  

6. Magnification and minimization – Distorting aspects of a memory or situation through magnifying or minimizing them such that they no longer correspond to objective reality. This is common enough in the normal population to popularize idioms such as "make a mountain out of a molehill." In depressed clients, often the positive characteristics of other people are exaggerated and negative characteristics are understated. There is one subtype of magnification:

          * Catastrophizing – Focusing on the worst possible outcome, however unlikely, or thinking that a situation is unbearable or impossible when it is really just uncomfortable.

  

7. Emotional reasoning – Making decisions and arguments based on intuitions or personal feeling rather than an objective rationale and evidence. (See appeal to consequences.)

  

8. Should statements – Patterns of thought which imply the way things "should" or "ought to be" rather than the actual situation the patient is faced with, or having rigid rules which the patient believes will "always apply" no matter what the circumstances are. Albert Ellis termed this "Musturbation". (See wishful thinking.)

  

9. Labeling and mislabeling – Explaining behaviors or events, merely by naming them; related to overgeneralization. Rather than describing the specific behavior, a patient assigns a label to someone of him- or herself that implies absolute and unalterable terms. Mislabeling involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.

  

10. Personalization – Attribution of personal responsibility (or causal role) for events over which the patient has no control. This pattern is also applied to others in the attribution of blame.

More on FOG... .

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Regarding Mother's Day... .it's such a loaded holiday for those with a BPDmom, I agree with the others, do what feels like the best thing to do to you.  There is no right or wrong thing and there is a range of choices.  You could not acknowledge the day, you could send her a card, you could call her, you could post something on Facebook, you could take her out... .I think you need to look at what feels right to you, not what society says the the right thing to do, not what you feel you should (guilt) do, but what you want to do.

My SO's daughters are both handling Mother's Day in their own way.  D20 is very low contact with her mother (occasional email communication) will be ignoring the day, D16 who has limited contact (texts/phone calls/very occasional cups of coffee) with her mom has invited her to lunch (we have been helping her with boundaries and an escape plan if things go south).

Make the decision that works for you. 

Take Care,
Panda39

[Lifestranger]

I ended up sending her a text message that said happy mothers day. She replied back "You too", so I sent her a photo of my daughter. She replied how beautiful she is, and  getting big.

So, normal interaction! If all interactions were like this, I wouldn't have an issue. I've just starting part 2 of the "Stop walking on eggshells" book, which is the action part. I definitely have a better understanding of where my mom is coming from after reading part 1 (more compassion), but I'm not sure where that leaves me or what my next steps are. Yes she has a problem, but that doesn't mean I should have to live with it. Hoping part 2 provides clear answers. Also, I'm fairly sure my mom has NPD as well. And from what the book says, high functioning BPD's are very unlikely to get help/change, so... .the future is still uncertain.

I'm glad I sent the text message. Yes, it was part guilt. My brother - who was the golden child and a lot more impacted than me (he was seeign her 1-2x a week, very enmeshed) - he didn't text at all. She has been trying to call him all day and he's ignoring it. I know how hard it is for him, and I commend him for that. The last time he answered he was given a 30 minute crying/screaming guilt trip, so it's best that he ignores.

Out of curiousity, for people in similar situations (BPD/NPD parent), what can I expect going forward? Do people tend to cut off? I was thinking of suggesting therapy WITH her, at one point, but that doesn't seem beneficial to me. Do people have LC relationships with their parents?

[copingwithmom]

Expect the unexpected. Just when you think you have reached a "comfortable" place with your mom, she will throw you a curveball. The eggshells book is a good one. It really helps put things into perspective. I have limited contact with my mom. Establishing boundaries and creating space has been the best for my peace of mind. I know some people cut ties, but I don't think my mom's behaviors are severe enough to do that. Having said that, the less I am around her the better. She will respect the boundaries for a while then creeps back in. I then have to set the boundaries again and the process repeats. In terms of therapy, i have asked mom to go for years. She hasn't. Three years ago she asked me to go to family therapy, and I said no because I was mad at her at the time. With a recent issue, I told her I will go if she still wants to. I try to focus on the good things she and my stepdad (enabler) do, but it is hard. I never endured abuse, so I don't have that level of pain. I have just always had the stress of dealing with her disorder in many other ways specifically the impact it has had on tearing our family apart.

[Peacewithin]

Ah, I can soo relate to the guilt trippin'.
Also, like you, my mom is a high-functioning (undiagnosed) BPD and is also narcissistic, maybe NPD.
I've only recently been learning about BPD, and the egg shell book has felt so revelatory... .so much of it sounds like her. 

As for moving forward with a BPD parent, I'll just share where I'm at.  I've only recently realized that she is likely BPD, though I've been working a lot on my issues with her through therapy for a number of years. Also, going to CoDependent's Anonymous meetings has really helped me clarify what's mine and what's hers... .cut through some of the Gas Lighting.  I've been unconsciously seeking distance from her forever... .I went to boarding school at 14 and have been leaving ever since.  Now in my late 30's, I live about 3,000 miles away.  Living near her may be possible as I recover further, but at this point it would be too hard not to get enmeshed again and caught up in her labyrinth.  I tried to set a boundary with her and go low contact (no phone calls, just writing) about 1.5 years ago.  She mistook it as my wanting nothing to do with her and decided that we were estranged.  I continued to write occasionally and to just act as I wanted to... .I've now learned that everything I sent was seen in the worst possible light... .when I sent a mother's day card last year, she asked why I was "toying" with her.  In her imagination, I've become a super villain. Ugh. 

Recently, I've reached out to see if some sort of reconciliation is possible. My desire is to just have a civil, casual relationship with her.  Mostly this is so I can safely attend family events in the future.  So far, it's been hard, and she's been really mean.  But, we did speak on mother's day and it was civil, short and not pain-filled!  If that's all we have, I'm good with it.  Hopefully, it will continue... .though I certainly know that there's no telling how she will be the next time we talk (which I hope is not soon).  I can love her deeply and feel all of my emotions... .from afar, safe from her personality... . 

Best wishes to you! 

[Lifestranger]

Bumping this, because my daughters first birthday is in August. My mom has seven siblings and I have lots of cousins and aunts/uncles I want to invite -  they are all normal, and were all CO by her for silly reasons (except my alcoholic aunt, who I have CO myself). So I feel obligated to invite her. There will be 50-60 people there, so I'm not worried about it- I also have to check with my brother if he's ok with it (he has her in a time out, possible cut off... .I'd choose him over her if it came to it.)

She's been quiet . And I don't want our first contact to be at the Bday, so I was thinking of reaching out and seeing if she can respect boundaries - but when I list them out it seems so ridiculous, like i need to teach her to be a decent human being? The main one is don't slander me behind my back. Don't guilt trip me. I don't even know how to word this, but when I was pregnant she kept "hinting" I was too fat (she has body issues herself). I am only 120 pre-pregnancy, dropped all the weight within 2 weeks, and I wan'ted a healthy baby! I had NO ISSUES gaining a ton of weight. But in a waiting room, she kept clearing her throat and throwing obvious glances at a woman 3 months past me, and I had a bigger belly (the rest of me was as thin as ever- I literally had people gasp when I turned around because from behind I didn't look pregnant). When I didn't take the hint she asked the woman how far along she was, and gives me this coy smile when the woman was near due and I was only 5 months. But if I were to ask her "What?" she'd play dumb and not know what I am talking about. She gaslights like crazy, denies everything, and is never wrong. How do you set a boundary or confront about that?  Do I just leave when it happens?

I'd ideally like to have a limited contact relationship with her but I don't know if it's possible. She constantly looks for loopholes, so unless I can list every possible damaging behavior I'll get an " I didn't know I couldn't do that!".  it's been a peaceful 6 months, and I'm not sure if I'm ready to let her back, because I doubt she's changed. BUT, if I don't invite her, she'll see that as an automatic CO and never speak to me again. I'm not sure I'm ready for that either.

[Lifestranger]

"Remember, BPDs are like empty vessels which can never be filled. "

This resonates so much. I feel like I literally could never make her happy so why bother trying? My husband doesn't agree with a cut off, but he really doesn't understand. He'd see her 1-2 a year ad she was always on her best behavior. He feels if she reacted poorly around my daughter we would use it as a learning experience because we can't protect her forever. I'm worried she'd call my daughter thunder thighs and make her have an eating disorder, that no amount of "You're a healthy weight!" from mom and dad could ever fix.

I'm so torn. I don't know how to fix this, and it really isn't on me. Except I asked for space and she's giving it to me. I was thinking of sending this message to test the waters:

"Hi, it's been a few months and I'm willing to see if we can have a respectful relationship. I won't take kindly to guilt trips or punishments, so please refrain from those. I'm not interested in rehashing the past, so I'd like to try to move forward.

If you are happy to communicate on these terms then I will keep in touch when I'm able to."