Feeling of responsibility keeping me in the marriage

[prof]

Hi everyone,

I'm a 36M with anxiety, depression, and ASD (more on that later).

My wife is a 38F with anxiety, depression, a chronic auto-immune disorder, and an APD diagnosis from her youth.  However, whenever I read a list of the signs of BPD or someone else's story pwBPD story, it sounds exactly like her.

We've been married 5 years with one 4-year-old son.

Bottom line:  I want out.  I constantly find myself fantasizing about how much simpler life would be without her.

However, I have "dragged" (her words) my wife across the country for my career.  I work as a college professor, and we live in a rural community in the southeast near the college, thousands of miles from her family.  (The same family she wanted desperately to move away from when we first met.)

I feel like I can't leave because I provide almost all our income and our health insurance.  She often says that if I were to leave, she'd be on the streets or that she would kill herself.  With her auto-immune disease, she likely wouldn't be able to hold down a job.  So I feel responsible for her.

(My dad left my bipolar mother after I went to college, and I really watched her struggle to make a new life for herself.)

Regarding my ASD diagnosis:  My wife would often ask, "What's wrong with you?"  One night after an argument, we did some googling, and ASD seemed like it might explain most of the issues she had with me.  So I arranged to be tested.  Part of the diagnosis process was an interview with my wife.  Sure enough, I was diagnosed with ASD.  But she has done absolutely nothing to try and work with me post-diagnosis, e.g, by giving me some reminders on what to do or being more clear in directions.  If I bring my ASD up at all, it's just an "excuse".

(My dad, on the other hand, absolutely refused to believe the ASD diagnosis -- making part of me wonder if it was just the ultimate gaslighting, especially with her role in the diagnosis process.)

Any ideas?

Thank you for reading!

[MrRight]

Your case sounds so complex it needs a more informed head than mine to deal with it.

however - I brought a woman from Russia to the UK - and I di identify with the feeling of responsibility you have for taking your wife far away from her family and being the sole provider. Mine also says she will kill herself etc.

Given that you both have issues - how do you see the future of your son? with you, with her - or muddle through with both?

[prof]

I'm probably biased, but I feel that I am significantly more high-functioning than my wife.  I have a steady job, rarely get angry, etc.  And I currently do probably about 95% of the parenting.  I don't want to take him away from her or anything, but I think he would probably be better of with me.

[DaddyBear77]

Hey prof - welcome to the bpdfamily

So first of all, as you probably know personally, I've read that diagnosing ASD in adults can be tricky. My pwBPD has "joked" about me being "on the spectrum," too, and I've had plenty of long nights where we've consulted Dr Google to find out just exactly what it wrong with me! Given that I seem to function well in every other context of my life that DOESN'T involve my pwBPD, I've more or less ignored this, laughed it off, and just generally moved on. It does stick in my head sometimes, but I try to trust my instincts and I would suggest you do the same.

Do you happen to see a therapist or counselor on a regular basis? Have you brought this up with them? Do they think it's a concern? Aside from my pwBPD, I feel like a therapist with whom I am open and honest with has a better, healthier perspective on who I am and what might be a diagnosable issue.

So that takes us to the situation where your wife has moved away from her family and now you feel completely responsible for her and her well being. It also sounds like her auto-immune issues might make things more (too?) difficult for your wife.

But let me ask you - what did your wife do before you met? How did she get along without you there? If you could imagine disappearing for a week, what would things look like at home? Would she step up? Notice I didn't ask, would it be easy / comfortable / something she likes.

YOU are suffering from depression and anxiety as well as something that might be ASD. Your wife calls them excuses. But it doesn't sound like YOU call them excuses, right? It sounds like you still get up, go to work, get things done, and come home every night and, as you said, do 95% of the parenting. I have a 3 year old daughter about to turn 4 - I know how difficult that is. I'm in the same boat there, too.

Just so you know, I'm right there, in a very very similar spot to you. My wife also has anxiety, depression, and a chronic auto-immune disorder - it's all real, I've seen the flares and the rashes and all the sleepless nights to "prove" it without her saying a word. About 5 years ago my wife quit her six figure job because "it was killing her" - and she might have been right. But I'm also suffering from chronic back issues, I've taken meds for depression and anxiety in the past and I'm thinking about going back again soon, and it's also starting to look like I'll be diagnosed with Spondylosis or psoriatic arthritis or maybe both. But not once in any of my journey have I even CONSIDERED quitting my job or packing it in. I suspect you're in the same boat.

You mentioned that your mother struggled with bipolar disorder and had a tough time making a new life, but did she eventually figure it out?

Again, being completely honest, I am trying desperately to figure this out for myself, too, which is why I'm able to talk about these issues - they're on my mind all the time. Will my wife be OK if I leave? Will she go back to that six figure job, even though she'll hate me every second of every day for "making" her do it? Will the alimony I provide help her enough? Would I be willing to pay a little extra to make sure she gets health insurance? Does that even make sense?

Some other questions I ask myself: What signal does it send to her when I do all the hard parenting stuff? It's obvious she is more than willing to step aside and let me step in. But what would happen if I said "sorry, babe, I need to get some work done. Can you do the bathing and the laundry and the tucking in tonight?" Is that an unreasonable expectation? Is my wife taking responsibility for her own health, for real, and going to all the doctors and specialists that are available today to get relief from her symptoms? Or does she just defeat herself, presume that the treatment is worse than the cure, and stay stuck in the same spot over and over and over again.

Hopefully these are some good questions to get you started. I hope I didn't make too many presumptions, but like I said, your story sounds really familiar so I'm guessing I'm not too far off.

[prof]

So first of all, as you probably know personally, I've read that diagnosing ASD in adults can be tricky. My pwBPD has "joked" about me being "on the spectrum," too, and I've had plenty of long nights where we've consulted Dr Google to find out just exactly what it wrong with me! Given that I seem to function well in every other context of my life that DOESN'T involve my pwBPD, I've more or less ignored this, laughed it off, and just generally moved on. It does stick in my head sometimes, but I try to trust my instincts and I would suggest you do the same.

I was certainly not without issues before i met my wife.  I really struggled with my last couple years of college, barely going to class and just scraping by to graduate.  I'd rather stay in my apartment and play MMOs than go to campus.

An old frat buddy of my dad's offered me an interview for a nice job when I graduated -- I just had to call him to set it up.  But my dad and his friends call me by my middle name, and I prefer my first name.  This little fear prevented me from ever calling.  I stayed unemployed the summer after graduation, until my parents basically forced me to move home.  I worked retail for three years before I finally applied to grad school.

And I was absolutely petrified of talking to women.  My wife, who I started dating at 29, was my first serious adult relationship.  And she asked me out.

So while on one hand, the ASD seems like gaslighting, on the other hand, it seems to explain a lot.

Do you happen to see a therapist or counselor on a regular basis? Have you brought this up with them? Do they think it's a concern? Aside from my pwBPD, I feel like a therapist with whom I am open and honest with has a better, healthier perspective on who I am and what might be a diagnosable issue.

Yes -- I see the therapist who diagnosed me.  The regularity, however, is not so great.   When I am able to see him (often I have to make the next appointment months out due to his busy schedule), frequently I end up canceling at the last minute due to some drama created by my wife.  She's convinced he's doing nothing to help me.  It seems that she expects that after less than a year of therapy, I should be cured of ASD.  That and it's "too expensive".  (It's a $25 copay -- and she spends way more than that on jewelry, makeup, etc.)

During my last appointment with him, I did start talking about my worries that she may have BPD, that may ASD diagnosis may be a bit off, etc.  He seemed halfway open to it, but I haven't had another appointment since (I think I've cancelled two... .)

So that takes us to the situation where your wife has moved away from her family and now you feel completely responsible for her and her well being. It also sounds like her auto-immune issues might make things more (too?) difficult for your wife.

Yes, absolutely.  She stays in bed almost all day watching TV or playing games on her phone.  During the last week or so, she's had frequent fainting spells.  For a few hours last week, she claimed to have lost her memory for the last four years.

But let me ask you - what did your wife do before you met? How did she get along without you there? If you could imagine disappearing for a week, what would things look like at home? Would she step up? Notice I didn't ask, would it be easy / comfortable / something she likes.

When we met, we were in school.  She was living off financial aid and probably mooching off her mom (now deceased).  Almost immediately after dating, she started trying to get me to buy her weed and cigarettes.  I held my ground for a long time (I hate that she smokes), but finally caved after a few months.

She got along well enough without me then.  If I disappeared for a week ... .I don't know.  She might be dead, like she threatens.  She might be just fine, and the house might be as clean as it ever was (cleaning seems to be one of her best ways to self-soothe, although I do most of it any more.)

YOU are suffering from depression and anxiety as well as something that might be ASD. Your wife calls them excuses. But it doesn't sound like YOU call them excuses, right? It sounds like you still get up, go to work, get things done, and come home every night and, as you said, do 95% of the parenting. I have a 3 year old daughter about to turn 4 - I know how difficult that is. I'm in the same boat there, too.

Just so you know, I'm right there, in a very very similar spot to you. My wife also has anxiety, depression, and a chronic auto-immune disorder - it's all real, I've seen the flares and the rashes and all the sleepless nights to "prove" it without her saying a word. About 5 years ago my wife quit her six figure job because "it was killing her" - and she might have been right. But I'm also suffering from chronic back issues, I've taken meds for depression and anxiety in the past and I'm thinking about going back again soon, and it's also starting to look like I'll be diagnosed with Spondylosis or psoriatic arthritis or maybe both. But not once in any of my journey have I even CONSIDERED quitting my job or packing it in. I suspect you're in the same boat.

Oh yeah, I'm never quitting my job.  I love my work.  If it weren't for my son, I'd never want to come home.

You mentioned that your mother struggled with bipolar disorder and had a tough time making a new life, but did she eventually figure it out?

Things slowly got better for her.  She started out living on a very sketchy side of town working odd retail jobs.  Eventually, she got a decent job and bought a nice condo.  But then she had the mother of all manic episodes, lost everything, and had to work her way back up again.

She eventually ended up living with a guy who on the surface seemed great for her, and for the most part treated her pretty well.  But he started dating her immediately after his wife died, and tried to seduce my aunt while she was visiting them, so I'm guessing some sort of sex addiction?

Ultimately, she had another manic episode, decided to go off dialysis (she struggled with kidney disease for most of her life), and passed away a few months later.  At this point, I was engaged to my wife and already too wrapped up her drama to really be there emotionally for my mom.  (Or physically -- I was 2000 miles away at grad school.)

Again, being completely honest, I am trying desperately to figure this out for myself, too, which is why I'm able to talk about these issues - they're on my mind all the time. Will my wife be OK if I leave? Will she go back to that six figure job, even though she'll hate me every second of every day for "making" her do it? Will the alimony I provide help her enough? Would I be willing to pay a little extra to make sure she gets health insurance? Does that even make sense?

Some other questions I ask myself: What signal does it send to her when I do all the hard parenting stuff? It's obvious she is more than willing to step aside and let me step in. But what would happen if I said "sorry, babe, I need to get some work done. Can you do the bathing and the laundry and the tucking in tonight?" Is that an unreasonable expectation? Is my wife taking responsibility for her own health, for real, and going to all the doctors and specialists that are available today to get relief from her symptoms? Or does she just defeat herself, presume that the treatment is worse than the cure, and stay stuck in the same spot over and over and over again.

Right now, she certainly acts as if she can barely do anything for our son.  She kept me up most of last night because was having insomnia and didn't want to be alone.  I finally convinced her to let me sleep some more, and then our son woke up.  ":)o you expect me to take care of him?" she asked.  So of course I got up.

I know she can take care of him, sometimes at least.  Every once in a while, I have an evening commitment and she usually steps up.  He's a pretty laid back, easy to hand kid.

Hopefully these are some good questions to get you started. I hope I didn't make too many presumptions, but like I said, your story sounds really familiar so I'm guessing I'm not too far off.

Thank you so much for your insight, DaddyBear77!  Our stories do sound very similar!

[prof]

Needing to vent a bit more... .

Since our first argument shortly after beginning dating, there's always been a little voice in my head telling me to run.

Last week, I think that voice was finally loud enough.  Specifically, as I was hanging from our bedroom window about to jump 8 feet or so to the ground below.

A little background:  A few weeks ago, we let her weed dealer and her boyfriend crash at our house for a few days while they looked for a new place.  It was too much for us, and we ended up concocting a fake story about our landlord finding out they were staying with us and threatening to terminate our lease to get them to move out without destroying the friendship/drug connection.  We agreed to keep hanging on to their stuff and looking after their cats in exchange for some weed.  (Quick aside: the weed is all my uPBDw -- I've never smoked a joint in my life.)

Well, the weed hadn't materialized yet and and my uBPDw grew angry.  She made some threats about getting rid of their stuff and cats, and grew afraid that they might come over and steal/burn/ransack/whatever our house.  However, they still had a key.

So in order to give my uBPDw enough piece of mind to get in the car and let me drive her to a sorely needed doctor's appointment with a specialist that deals with her auto-immune disorder, I went inside our house, locked all the doors and windows from the inside (we don't have a key for our storm door), except our bedroom.  This is where the jumping happened.

In that moment, I had decided.  I can't stay in this relationship.  This drama is too much for me.  I lose too much sleep, I miss too much work, I spend too much money, I'm told that she hates me, that I'm a horrible person, and that I don't care about her entirely too much.  And I'm beginning to see her treat our 4-year-old son badly too.  To me, she refers to him as a jerk and is convinced he hates her.  (All I see is the normal tantrums of a kid his age.)

(By the way, a couple days later, the weed dealer and her boyfriend came over to get their stuff and cats.  Everything was fine, and the weed was delivered as promised.  She still convinced me to change the locks.)

Yesterday, I called my dad and mostly bawled at him for about 30 minutes, finally being honest with him after 7 years of lying and pretending everything was ok.  He knew it was a bad relationship and warned me from the start, but I never listened.  He's promised to pay for any lawyer fees.  He's been entirely too generous financially through this whole mess, and I'm super lucky to have him.

I teach an online class during the summer, and I was having "virtual office hours" in a chat room.  No students had taken advantage of them yet until yesterday.  Ironically, just as I was beginning to talk to my first student about a homework question, my wife starts telling me about some new drama.  I listen attentively, ignoring my student.  After she's done, she goes into the bathroom to smoke, asking me to join her.  I tell her that I will answer the student's question and then join her.  She screams at me from the bathroom, saying that she always comes last, etc.  When I'm done talking to my student, I find that she's cut her wrists.  (Just superficial.)

We talk for a while, and she eventually calms down.  My poor son had been ignored all day, so I took him outside to play with his toy trucks for a while.  I get a phone call from my uBPDw, saying that she loves me and thanking me for being so good to her.  I ask where she is -- she's not in the house.

She'd walked a few blocks away.  I'm worried about her -- she's been fainting a lot recently.  I put my son in the car and we drive to find her.  After a few minutes of talking, she gets in the car and we drive home.  I put her to bed, give her something to eat, and she's asleep before too long.

I enjoy a relatively relaxed evening of putting my son to bed, doing some cleaning, and catching up on a tv show.  Just as I'm about to go to bed, I wake her up.  Before too long, I find myself in the bathroom with her while she smokes cigarette after cigarette and reads five or so websites to me about how a man should treat a woman, angrily glaring at me during the parts where she feels I'm perform especially poorly.

This turns into her asking me to apologize for what she considers one of my biggest failures -- leaving the town where we met to get my first academic job.  She sees this as "ruining her career".  (She is a musician, and she had a position in the local semi-professional orchestra that she had to give up when we moved.  She is convinced she will never get another similar position due to her illness.  Note that she makes more money teaching music at the same college I teach at than she ever did in this orchestra -- but she's teaching, not performing.)

Eventually, she calms down and starts to practice her instrument (I think it's about 4 am at this point... .)  I manage to get a few hours asleep before my son wakes up.

Ugh.  I wish I could say days like this were rare.  Thank you to anyone who read my rant.  I just needed to share it.

[Notwendy]

Hi prof-

I have read your story and it is one that is familiar to me from observing my parents- and BPD mom. While my own relationship has had some challenges, it thankfully has not included feeling responsible for someone else's survival. Yet, I think many of us somehow feel responsible for other people's feelings. I think it does help to realize what we are, and what we are not, responsible for.

Then there are our own set of values- how we handle ethical issues, money, and illegal substances. If it is not ok with you to have weed dealers in your home, then your values are being violated. You have the right to not have weed dealers in your home, or weed as well.

I know it is concerning that your wife may not be able to survive without you. Consider that she did survive for 29 years before she met you. Although you feel you took her away from her family, she could also get a plane ticket and go back.

This is difficult, but you can, and need to take care of yourself- you need sleep and you need time to work. An online class is great to work from home, but if home is disruptive- your office on campus may be the better place to do this. Yes, you have the parenting responsibility, but options like mother's morning out, day camp, preschool, can give you some time, and your son will have a great time playing with other kids. I don't know if you are religious, but churches often have mothers morning out programs and vacation bible camps that are inexpensive. A secular camp may be found at a YMCA if there is one near you.

Your ASD diagnosis is independent of your wife's issues. BPD can involve denial and a tendency to blame other people. ASD may serve that for your wife. She may also minimize it if she feels you are taking victim position in discussions. Read up on the drama triangle to understand this dynamic.

To stay or leave is a hard decision, but I think you can make a decision based on what you feel is best for you. This isn't easy either way. It is a very hard place to be. I think either decision- to stay or leave comes with pros and cons. Yet, the choice is yours to make.

[prof]

Thanks, Notwendy!

If it is not ok with you to have weed dealers in your home, then your values are being violated. You have the right to not have weed dealers in your home, or weed as well.

I really didn't have a huge problem with them staying with us -- they weren't dealing out of our house or anything.  I saw them as friends who needed some help.

Their presence was really giving my uBPDw anxiety after a while.  I would have preferred to be honest with them, but I eventually agreed to the fake landlord story.

The weed itself has always been an interesting part of our relationship.  Initially, I thought it was kind of cool and sexy that she smoked.  It was never something that I had done, and it added a component of edginess that added attraction.  I didn't really have many of my own friends in grad school (it seemed like whenever I'd start to hang out with someone, they'd graduate or drop out).  So her weed smoking friends became my friends too.  One of them even ended up being one of my groomsmen.

But I hate the money.  I made a pittance in grad school as a TA, and I was spending a couple hundred bucks a month on her drugs, literally watching my money go up in smoke.  Her use has gone down significantly since then while my income has gone up, so the proportion has dropped.  But I still don't like it.

I know it is concerning that your wife may not be able to survive without you. Consider that she did survive for 29 years before she met you. Although you feel you took her away from her family, she could also get a plane ticket and go back.

She certainly has the strongest support system back home.  Unfortunately, the most vital key to that was her mom, who passed away a year and a half ago.  But she still has her dad, sister, and a ton of friends.

This is difficult, but you can, and need to take care of yourself- you need sleep and you need time to work. An online class is great to work from home, but if home is disruptive- your office on campus may be the better place to do this. Yes, you have the parenting responsibility, but options like mother's morning out, day camp, preschool, can give you some time, and your son will have a great time playing with other kids. I don't know if you are religious, but churches often have mothers morning out programs and vacation bible camps that are inexpensive. A secular camp may be found at a YMCA if there is one near you.

The preschool he goes to during the year has a summer program, and I can drop him off any day for a daily rate.  I may just do that soon.

Your ASD diagnosis is independent of your wife's issues. BPD can involve denial and a tendency to blame other people. ASD may serve that for your wife. She may also minimize it if she feels you are taking victim position in discussions. Read up on the drama triangle to understand this dynamic.

I did a little reading on the drama triangle, and I find myself identifying with all three corners.  Is this normal?

Primarily "Rescuer" though.  The following, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, seems spot on:

The rewards derived from this rescue role are that the focus is taken off of the rescuer. When he/she focuses their energy on someone else, it enables them to ignore their own anxiety and issues. This rescue role is also very pivotal because their actual primary interest is really an avoidance of their own problems disguised as concern for the victim’s needs.

I certainly have a lot of my own crap to deal with (e.g., things like the anxiety about setting up that interview at the end of college).  There's no time for that now!

However, I also see myself as a Victim of her abuse, and in my head, a Persecutor blaming all my problems on her.

To stay or leave is a hard decision, but I think you can make a decision based on what you feel is best for you. This isn't easy either way. It is a very hard place to be. I think either decision- to stay or leave comes with pros and cons. Yet, the choice is yours to make.

Quite honestly, I see almost nothing but pros to leaving.  The two big cons that jump out are:

• What will happen to her?
• Will I end up ripping our son from her if, e.g., she does move back home and I get custody?

[MrRight]

Wow - what a story.

I cant help much with advice - except that I am very concerned for the welfare of your child - very concerned. There is no way he should be left alone for significant periods of time at that age and I am sure you know this. he should also not be exposed to the company of drug dealers and if his mother thinks he is a jerk I would say you should perhaps consdier some options along the lines of putting him first - which might also benefit you.
I myself failed to get my son away from his mum - but then she wasnt neglecting him - quite the opposite.
yes mine has also read out websites on how a man should treat a woman - galling and insulting isnt it - coming from a mental case.
My dad also warned me - I havent seen him in 8 years, or my mother. My wife thinks they're all just trash - just like me! But Im glad she has music to help her wind down. what does she play? what part did her parents play in her musical career? disappointed musician possibly trying to cope with unfulfilled expectations from ruthless and brutal ambitious parents? just a shot in the dark.

[prof]

I cant help much with advice - except that I am very concerned for the welfare of your child - very concerned. There is no way he should be left alone for significant periods of time at that age and I am sure you know this.  he should also not be exposed to the company of drug dealers and if his mother thinks he is a jerk I would say you should perhaps consdier some options along the lines of putting him first - which might also benefit you.
I myself failed to get my son away from his mum - but then she wasnt neglecting him - quite the opposite.

He's never left completely alone at home by himself, if you were getting that impression.  Just occasional afternoons of keeping himself occupied in the other room while uBPDw and I are getting into it.  Most of the big fights are after he has gone to bed.  Fortunately, he's a very creative happy little guy and for the most part seems unaffected (yet).

yes mine has also read out websites on how a man should treat a woman - galling and insulting isnt it - coming from a mental case.

Yeah -- and today she practically had me convinced that I'm the one committing the abuse because I don't just automatically do these things.  And I probably would, if I wasn't so emotionally and financially drained from our day-to-day.

My dad also warned me - I havent seen him in 8 years, or my mother. My wife thinks they're all just trash - just like me!

Oh, that's horrible.  I'm sorry.

I certainly have seen my dad far less since I started dating my uBPDw (I saw him 2 months ago, and that was for the first time in about a year and a half), but we still have a good relationship.

But Im glad she has music to help her wind down. what does she play? what part did her parents play in her musical career? disappointed musician possibly trying to cope with unfulfilled expectations from ruthless and brutal ambitious parents? just a shot in the dark.

She plays flute.  From my point of view, her parents were extremely supportive of her music.  Her mom regularly drove 6 hours to hear her concerts, etc.

I wouldn't call either of her parents ruthless or ambitious, but from what I understand they had financial success early on -- both were old school computer programmers back in the 60s-70s.

Her dad is schizophrenic and physically abused her mom and my uBPDw.  She quit high school, did drugs and lived on the streets for a few years before getting clean and going to music school.  (The APD diagnosis, as I understand, was from these years.)  So I'm guessing those are the two big things motivating everything.

She just fell asleep, but we had a pretty big fight this afternoon.  It sounds like she's pretty much exactly in the same place I am.  Extremely unhappy, but worried that she'd be destitute if we split.

[prof]

Yesterday was a doozy.

Shortly after uBPDw woke up, she started going on about some current drama, and this quickly turned into pushing against me.  (She'd been in contact with the director of a musical group we were had been involved with last year.  We'd gone to several rehearsals, but had to leave due to her illness.  The director said she was welcome back, but would be performing a lower part.  She sees this as "punishing" her for her illness.  She wants me to "defend" her and contact the director myself.  I refused.)

As soon as she referred to me as her "f$!@ing husband", I lost my cool and all the doubts that have been simmering just below the surface recently came to the top.  "I'm done!" I exclaimed.

This turned into even more pushing, then pulling, then pushing, then pulling, etc.  At one point, she grabbed a knife and retreated to the bathroom to cut herself.  A few minutes later, she yelled at me because "my" knives are all "too dull".  She emptied one of her pill bottles into her hand, as if to take them, so I called 911.  She immediately put the pills back in the bottle, came over to me, ripped the phone from my ear and told the dispatcher that I was lying.

They sent a couple sheriff deputies over to talk to us.  Everyone was cordial.  They gave us both numbers we could call -- a mental health facility that will come out and talk to her to me, and an abuse hotline to her.

She took this as validation that I have been emotionally abusing her for years.  And I probably have with my codependency.  I need to come to terms with this and figure out what to do.  (I borrowed "Codependent No More" from the library and have been reading that the last couple days.)

Things eventually calmed down.  She was very sad -- she had turned "I have doubts about our relationship" into "I'm definitely divorcing you and leaving you to die on the streets".

I'm determined to take care of myself and try and maintain boundaries.  But I also want to show her that I love her, which is what she's telling me she desperately needs.  We cuddled in bed last night for the first time in a month or two.

We'll see where this goes.  Thank you everyone for reading.

[MrRight]

You need some smart people on here to decode all this.

Mine often uses to me phone companies etc to sort out problems on her behalf - her excuse being she's foreign and a woman so I'm more likely to get a better result - which I do! Not because I'm a man or native speaker I'm just an assertive communicative person unlike her.

So you're the abuser are you? That's what they do - abuse you and then accuse you of being the abuser.

I have been in the suicide threat situation too - but I never called 911 - leading to the accusation I would be happy to see her die.

all this nonsense is just never ending

at least you love her though - that's something

hope you find a way of dealing with this

did you read up on the site tools? I found the stuff on validadition priceless.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey prof, In my view, when deputy sheriffs show up at your house, it's a big red flag.   

You have probably already thought about how an episode like this might affect your professional life and career.  Don't kid yourself: it's a serious matter when the W of a college professor accuses him of abuse.  You don't seem concerned about the risks, but maybe you should be.  A domestic violence charge could be fatal to your job.

Forewarned is forearmed: don't let this happen again.

LuckyJim

[DaddyBear77]

prof,

That DOES sound like one he$# of a day. I'm sorry that happened. It must have been really intense.

I understand that the police came as a result of you dialing 911. That's a pretty standard practice, I think, even when someone says "oops, never mind." I want to caution you, though - if your wife makes a suicidal threat again, and you have no other support or emergency system in place, call 911. More importantly, make absolutely sure that SHE knows you're still willing to call 911, despite whatever threat she might make.

Regarding the abuse, Lucky Jim is absolutely correct. It's one thing to go back and forth amongst yourselves, and even calling out to a DV hotline isn't quite as dangerous as when police start getting involved. I had an incident once 3 years ago, with my then 1 year old daughter in the car, my wife screamed so loud that other people in the parking garage called the police. Luckily my wife said "nothing is happening. I just got upset." But it could have very very easily gone another direction and it scared the crap out of me.

You've got a small child, illegal substances in the house, and evidence that if the police show up again, you're getting thrown under the bus. Take this very very seriously and let it be a true catalyst for change.

And one more thing - she won't change, there's a 99% chance of that. What is the percent chance YOU'LL make the changes?

[MrRight]

Just to back up what others have said.

dont know about USA but in the UK police log all incidents whether there is an arrest or not. this information can be passed on where employers might find it relevant. So in your case you will find "911 call - wife alleged abuse - no charge" being passed to a potential employer where you have applied for employment - imagine how that will look.

[sweetheart]

For me here in all you post what is screaming out to me as a parent is the welfare of your son. I hear you when you say he is only four and a perfectly happy little boy, but maybe a shift in your focus that might help you with your decisions and your future is to think about his needs and prioritise those over everything else.

It does not sound from what you outline here that your wife is able to parent in a way that takes the emotional wellbeing of your son into account, so this then falls to you to safeguard him from future emotional harm and think about whether you could offer him a better environment than the one he is living in at the moment, and what that might look like.

Lucky Jim raises an important point and it is also worth bearing in mind that if something like this were to happen again there is every possible that a referral to CPS could be made.

Think about what keeping you and your son safe from the worst excesses of these behaviours, what does that look like in practice?
Who else do you have around for support?

[sweetheart]

Sorry I tried to modify my previous post but it timed out, so am posting the bit I wanted to add;


Think about what keeping you and your son safe from the worst excesses of these behaviours might look like, can anything change in the short term to alleviate any stressors for you all?
Who else do you have around for support? Does your son have a nanny or is he in a regular childcare setting? Does your workplace offer these options?

Sometimes when we are living amidst so much chaos and instability for sustained periods of time some behaviours start to become acceptable in a way that they would not be on the outside. That's why sometimes when we look objectively at a post with fresh eyes we can maybe see through the chaos in a way that is immensely difficult to do when you are in it.

[MrRight]

For me here in all you post what is screaming out to me as a parent is the welfare of your son. I hear you when you say he is only four and a perfectly happy little boy, but maybe a shift in your focus that might help you with your decisions and your future is to think about his needs and prioritise those over everything else.

It does not sound from what you outline here that your wife is able to parent in a way that takes the emotional wellbeing of your son into account, so this then falls to you to safeguard him from future emotional harm and think about whether you could offer him a better environment than the one he is living in at the moment, and what that might look like.

Lucky Jim raises an important point and it is also worth bearing in mind that if something like this were to happen again there is every possible that a referral to CPS could be made.

Think about what keeping you and your son safe from the worst excesses of these behaviours, what does that look like in practice?
Who else do you have around for support?

I think living in this household may not be the best option for a 4 year old.
She refers to the boy as a "jerk" - not a good sign - she screams her head off - presumably he can hear that?
If you want custody you would need to go now to the child care authorities and tell them your story - make some recordings of your wife - that should nail it - as she may accuse you of being the abuser.
This is all easier said than done!

[prof]

Thanks everyone for your comments!

I'm planning on taking my son to daycare on Monday so I can (finally) get some work done on my summer class, and then I have my first appointment with a lawyer.

Yesterday afternoon I had an appointment to take two of our cats to the vet.  As I was getting ready to leave, uBPDw began going on about something in a bid for my attention.  I responded in (what I thought was) a reassuring, loving manner.  But she obviously found it dismissive, and responded "f$!# you too."  I told her that I don't appreciate being spoken to like that and that I was going to the vet appointment.

Shortly after I drove away, she called me.  It quickly turned into her yelling.  I told her that I needed to focus on driving and won't listen to her yelling at me.  She proceeding to call again, over and over.  I think there were something like 26 missed calls before I finally put my phone in airplane mode.  (Was ignoring her like this ok?  On one hand, I really did need to focus on driving and didn't want to deal with her yelling at me in that moment.  On the other hand, I was ignoring her, which is a surefire way to hurt her.)

I arrived at the vet a few minutes early, so I took the opportunity to set up the aforementioned appointment with the lawyer.

After the vet appointment was over, I finally called her back to let her know how it went.  She had mostly calmed down, but told me that she had passed out a couple times while I was gone and hurt her head.  I was originally planning on going to the pharmacy to pick up some prescriptions on the way home, but she asked me to come straight home.

I want to believe her, but the head injury looks enough like a knife cut that I can't help but wonder if she's lying.  She's also had some ridiculously high temperatures in the past few days (one upwards of 105).  These were all taken when I was out of the room.  Whenever she's taken her temperature with me nearby, they have been in the normal range.  Could should be doing the classic "holding it up to the light to get out of school" trick?  Am I just paranoid?

She also laid out a list of demands.  Demands that if I didn't agree to, she would take our son and drive back to where she grew up.  Most of them were reasonable, and things that I'm working on anyway, e.g., be more effective at showing my love.

The big one was moving back to near where her family lives.  I'm very hesitant about this, as I'm very happy in my job and in this part of the country.  She caught on to this hesitancy and revised her demand to moving closer to the city and then giving it an additional 2 years.  If she's not happy, then we move.

Things settled down.  I ran some more errands in the evening and brought home dinner.  It was a relatively normal evening.

I should mention that all of this is happening during a perfect storm of bad things going on my uBPDw's life.  Her auto-immune disorder symptoms are as bad as she's ever been, she had to drop out of an MBA program she started last summer due to her illness, she has to cancel her flute lessons at the college all the time due to illness, she was accepted into a nearby program for a second bachelor's degree in a field that really interests her, but she's already taken too many credits to quality for financial aid, we're saddled in credit card debt but trying to improve our credit to buy a house, she's switching antidepressants, and she's been on her period for the past few days.

[DaddyBear77]

Was ignoring her like this ok?  On one hand, I really did need to focus on driving and didn't want to deal with her yelling at me in that moment.  On the other hand, I was ignoring her, which is a surefire way to hurt her.

Ok, I'm going to do what I'm really good at - giving other people advice that I'm really bad at. But I guess, who better to know than someone who is doing it themselves right?

YES. That's GREAT! You're setting a boundary and enforcing it. The boundary is that you're not going to let yourself be raged at, especially when driving. Absolutely NO ONE has the right to do ANYTHING to you that you're not comfortable with. And the fact that you had to ask that question in the first place is honestly a red flag, indicating that you have some SERIOUS caretaking tendencies.

But, you may be asking, what if she really DID pass out and hurt herself? What if she really had an emergency and you weren't there? This may sound harsh, but... .I guess she'd have to learn pretty quickly how to dial 911, right?

I said I don't follow my own advice and I mean it, but that doesn't make either of us right. I've felt the same as you do for a long time. But seeing you go through this is an eye opener for myself too. Almost everyone out there has an innate ability to take care of themselves. Some people really REALLY like it when other people take care of them, but "won't" is very different from "can't." And likewise, some people really REALLY like to take care of other people, but "can" is really different than "should" or "must."

See what I'm saying?

[prof]

YES. That's GREAT! You're setting a boundary and enforcing it. The boundary is that you're not going to let yourself be raged at, especially when driving. Absolutely NO ONE has the right to do ANYTHING to you that you're not comfortable with.

Ok, good. 

And the fact that you had to ask that question in the first place is honestly a red flag, indicating that you have some SERIOUS caretaking tendencies.

Yeah, I'm figuring that out.  As the thread title says, it's pretty much my feeling of need to take care of her that's keeping me in this thing.

Ever since we began dating (and especially after we got our first apartment together), there's always been this little voice inside screaming at me, "Wow! WHAT ARE YOU DOING? RUN! RUN!".  But it has always lost to this feeling of responsibility.  I've been financially responsible for her since very early on. (I think I mentioned this above -- I finally caved and started buying her weed and cigarettes, initially as a loan.  This turned into us getting that apartment together -- she paid half the rent with her financial aid as repayment of her debt to me.  And eventually I caved some more and just bought these things for her without expecting repayment.)  I've felt physically responsible (who will do all these things for her?) and emotionally responsible (she'll kill herself if I leave!) too... .

[MrRight]

Ok, good. 

Yeah, I'm figuring that out.  As the thread title says, it's pretty much my feeling of need to take care of her that's keeping me in this thing.

Ever since we began dating (and especially after we got our first apartment together), there's always been this little voice inside screaming at me, "Wow! WHAT ARE YOU DOING? RUN! RUN!".  But it has always lost to this feeling of responsibility.  I've been financially responsible for her since very early on. (I think I mentioned this above -- I finally caved and started buying her weed and cigarettes, initially as a loan.  This turned into us getting that apartment together -- she paid half the rent with her financial aid as repayment of her debt to me.  And eventually I caved some more and just bought these things for her without expecting repayment.)  I've felt physically responsible (who will do all these things for her?) and emotionally responsible (she'll kill herself if I leave!) too... .

that's the reason I got married. great basis for a marriage eh.
For you it's early days - I have been playing this thankless game for 16 years.

[prof]

uBPDw slept most of the day yesterday after waking up briefly in the morning with awful nausea.

I spent the afternoon outside with my son putting his new swingset together.  (She ordered it so she could "play with him", i.e., smoke and play games on her phone while he plays.  We really couldn't afford it.  And this was Day 3 of putting it together.  I'm still not done... .)

She finally woke up in the evening.  I've been working on setting boundaries, and she obviously doesn't like it.  For example, she called away from reading a bedtime story to my son to load some weed in her pipe for her because she didn't want to disturb the kittens that were sleeping on her.  I refused and went back to reading the story.

After finishing storytime, I made her some dinner (she was asleep when my son and I ate) and went to give my son his nightly medicine (he had some nasty asthma episodes as a baby, and gets steroids in a nebulizer every night).  She said, "No, spend some time with me first!"

I agreed, but "spending time" became berating me for not spending time with her.  I responded with one of my usual responses ("I'm working on spending more time with you.  From my point of view, I spend a lot of time with you, and I'm working on trying to balance you with our son, work, chores around the house, etc."

She stopped eating her dinner and said, "Thanks, now I've lost my appetite."  I said that I won't be blamed for her losing her appetite and left to give my son his medicine.

Of course, she followed me raging.  I put up with it until I had finished giving him his medicine.  I told her I was exhausted from working out in the sun on the swingset all day and needed some sleep, going to the couch (I've been sleeping there a lot recently, partly due to the state of our marriage and also due to my snoring).

I closed my eyes while she continued raging.  She eventually pulled the blanket and pillow from me ("These are mine!"

I finally agreed to talk to her for "5 minutes".  Of course, 5 minutes become hours.  I got very little sleep, as she kept waking me up for one reason or another.  (Rub this ointment on my arm, take this kitten off me, help me with my blanket, etc.)  I was too tired to resist -- I just got up, did whatever it was, and went back to bed.

But the bottom line is -- I'm trying to set boundaries, and she doesn't like it.  Multiple times last night she called me a jerk and asked if our marriage was over.

[Grey Kitty]

But the bottom line is -- I'm trying to set boundaries, and she doesn't like it.  Multiple times last night she called me a jerk and asked if our marriage was over.

That's the way enforcing boundaries goes--if she 'liked' what you were trying to enforce, you wouldn't need to enforce it! 

The other thing going on is that you've taught her (over years) that if you try to stand up to her, she can turn up the volume, and keep it there, and sooner or later, you will give in. Now she expects it.

So she's going to keep pushing that button until it works... .or at least for a long time. We call this process an extinction burst, and you have to make it through it.

When it comes to not letting you sleep, you probably will have to go spend a night either at a hotel, or on a friend/relative's couch/guest room, with your phone off to get away and get a night's rest. (And it may not even be that restful for you, but at least she won't be interrupting you anymore!)

Get ready for this. (If you have friends you could ask in advance, that might help!)

Chances are, after you do this a time (or perhaps two or three), she will let you go away and sleep on the couch instead of bothering you only to have you leave the house.

[misterblister]

I think the child would be better off sooner than later living with the most stable parent, before they learn abnormal is normal. But this of course assumes you get majority custody.

But just as important, I wished I had divorced when mine were still young because I overestimated my ability to handle abnormal. In other words, by sticking it out for years, I slowly crumpled emotionally and physically (and financially) under the weight of abnormal. This happened despite my most sincere and heroic impulses.

So in the end my children had a cynical, beaten-down, depressed father when they could have had a strong role model oozing self-respect.

~14 years later my wife is finally starting to leave me and reminding me that nothing I did matters except that I hurt her. And my older children get to witness her saying that and doing that.

[prof]

uBPDw was really depressed today.  "My life is over", "I just want to die", etc.

The funny thing is she actually got out of the house for the first time in, I think, about a week and a half.  We went to her friend's house to pick up some new foster kittens.  (I'm not sure if I've mentioned this yet or not -- we've recently starting fostering stray kittens for a local charity.)

But when we got home, we took one of our other foster kittens to their new home.  uBPDw had fallen in love with this one, and saying goodbye really brought out her depression.

Not so much raging today.  Days like these really break my heart.  I have no idea what to do to help her.  And it makes me so afraid to leave her.

She just started a new antidepressent, so I'm hoping that will help.

[MrRight]

uBPDw was really depressed today.  "My life is over", "I just want to die", etc.

The funny thing is she actually got out of the house for the first time in, I think, about a week and a half.  We went to her friend's house to pick up some new foster kittens.  (I'm not sure if I've mentioned this yet or not -- we've recently starting fostering stray kittens for a local charity.)

But when we got home, we took one of our other foster kittens to their new home.  uBPDw had fallen in love with this one, and saying goodbye really brought out her depression.

Not so much raging today.  Days like these really break my heart.  I have no idea what to do to help her.  And it makes me so afraid to leave her.

She just started a new antidepressent, so I'm hoping that will help.

I am very keen to see how this resolves. Your sounds like mine - who also blames me for appetite loss - ruined mood etc. the one big difference is she wouldnt prioritise her needs over the child - so giving medicine to ill child would come first. And when she's with the child she doesnt play on her phone - she's all on him. If she's as poor a mother as the picture you paint I wonder of what value is she in your and your child's life?

All this raging she's doing while you enforce boundaries is no doubt damaging for the child. If it does not settle it wont be good.

3 days to erect a play swing?

[prof]

So yesterday was my consultation with the lawyer.

I was hoping uBPDw would be asleep when it was time to leave.  She wasn't, so I lied and said I had a meeting with my dean.  She instantly saw through my lie and guessed the truth.  "You're meeting with a divorce attorney, aren't you?"  I had to escape from my own house, with her blocking the hallway, pulling me by the shirt to keep me from walking away, and wrestling our son from me.  I said some words I'm not proud of as I left and got into my car.

During the consultation, the lawyer's eyes got wider and wider the more I told her of the story.  She recommended divorce ASAP.  My dad is ready to send a check for the retainer.

The rest of the day turned into an epic push/pull fest, complete with her putting a knife to her throat, prompting yet another 911 call from me.

We finally got to sleep around 5:00 am, after I promised to work on the marriage, etc.

I can't do this much longer.  It seems like every waking hour is filled with her raging at me.  Our house is a mess because I can't clean.  I'm completely neglecting my online class.

I'm so close to pulling the trigger with the divorce.  But I think I'm trapped in her FOG -- she's equated divorce with "killing her" since she'd lose my health insurance.

[prof]

3 days to erect a play swing?

Yeah, .  It's one of those larger ones with like 5 different types of swing, a slide, and a seesaw.  I'm not the greatest handyman. I keep realizing I put one part on wrong and have to backtrack a couple steps, etc.

[Grey Kitty]

Hang on there, man. You will find your way though it.

    Good job calling 911 when she was holding a knife to her throat! No matter how much she hates having authorities involved, that's absolutely the right thing to do. And really hard. Good work.

I'm glad you talked to a lawyer. I'm also going to recommend you post on the legal board here--There are some ways that a divorce with a pwBPD can be very different and much worse than a 'normal' divorce, and the senior folks there can help you understand it... .and help you find the correct lawyer.

The industry term for how it can go really badly is a "high conflict divorce". Ask your lawyer how much experience she has with them, and how she thinks this would go if it turns into one. (They usually take a lot longer and cost a lot more!) If she has little or no experience with them, ask if she can recommend another lawyer who is experienced with them.