Is it possible to disengage and also co parent?

[Depression = 72% of members]

How do you disengage when you have children together?
I have made the decision that I am done trying to make this work anymore.  I have been a complete emotional wreck the last 5 weeks since our separation.  I kept going back and forth in my head, breaking out in tears a few times a day.  But I realized, I am conflicted only emotionally.  In my head and in my gut, I am not conflicted at all.  So I decided to listen to my rational side and my gut feeling, and it is telling me to file for divorce.
But I am still torn because we have children together.  He isn't always the best father, in fact sometimes he does things that are outright dangerous with the kids (not insisting they wear seatbelts in the car, taking them to the gun range at 12 years old, teaching them that it's okay to jaywalk as long as you don't see any cars coming, are just some examples that come to mind.)  However, I do feel that in general it is always better for the children if both their parents are involved in their upbringing, even if said parent is not a great parent.  So my question is, if I do end up pursuing joint custody so that the children can have the benefit of both of us, how can I disengage from him while coparenting?  I have so much healing to do from this relationship (and he has gotten physically violent over the last couple of years so I have trauma from that as well,) but how can I heal while co parenting?
In an ideal world, I would love to share decision making with him, and let him have the kids two evenings a week plus every other weekend.  (I would maintain primary physical custody just so that the kids could continue living in the same home as before with a similar schedule, save visitation.)  But here is my dilemma: we have fought so much regarding decision making for the kids even while married.  Imagine how much more we will disagree after a divorce!  And as far as visitation, he is so unpredictable in his schedule, I doubt he will be able to maintain a steady visitation schedule.
I am so worried about continuing all our marital drama outside the marriage in our co parenting.  Can this be avoided while also sharing legal custody and having a mostly shared visitation schedule?  Can I successfully disengage emotionally while also trying to raise our children together?

[talking rose]

How do you disengage when you have children together?
I have made the decision that I am done trying to make this work anymore.  I have been a complete emotional wreck the last 5 weeks since our separation.  I kept going back and forth in my head, breaking out in tears a few times a day.  But I realized, I am conflicted only emotionally.  In my head and in my gut, I am not conflicted at all.  So I decided to listen to my rational side and my gut feeling, and it is telling me to file for divorce.
But I am still torn because we have children together.  He isn't always the best father, in fact sometimes he does things that are outright dangerous with the kids (not insisting they wear seatbelts in the car, taking them to the gun range at 12 years old, teaching them that it's okay to jaywalk as long as you don't see any cars coming, are just some examples that come to mind.)  However, I do feel that in general it is always better for the children if both their parents are involved in their upbringing, even if said parent is not a great parent.  So my question is, if I do end up pursuing joint custody so that the children can have the benefit of both of us, how can I disengage from him while coparenting?  I have so much healing to do from this relationship (and he has gotten physically violent over the last couple of years so I have trauma from that as well,) but how can I heal while co parenting?
In an ideal world, I would love to share decision making with him, and let him have the kids two evenings a week plus every other weekend.  (I would maintain primary physical custody just so that the kids could continue living in the same home as before with a similar schedule, save visitation.)  But here is my dilemma: we have fought so much regarding decision making for the kids even while married.  Imagine how much more we will disagree after a divorce!  And as far as visitation, he is so unpredictable in his schedule, I doubt he will be able to maintain a steady visitation schedule.
I am so worried about continuing all our marital drama outside the marriage in our co parenting.  Can this be avoided while also sharing legal custody and having a mostly shared visitation schedule?  Can I successfully disengage emotionally while also trying to raise our children together?

[Panda39]

Hi talking rose,

The answer is yes you can disengage (emotionally) when you have children together.  It takes time, it takes separation, it takes getting out of the FOG, I also think getting through the divorce process itself, and it takes self confidence (believing you are a good parent).  It takes knowing that you can only control you, that you can't control your ex, it takes letting go and radical acceptance.

he has gotten physically violent over the last couple of years... .

This would be very concerning to me regarding leaving my kids alone with him.

In an ideal world, I would love to share decision making with him, and let him have the kids two evenings a week plus every other weekend.

What if you aren't living in the ideal world?  I know you want to be "fair" but look at what is in the best interest of your children.  What kinds of decisions is he making and if you can't agree now I would say that is a pretty good indicator of what will continue with divorce.  Conflict with your husband could escalate with divorce. 

Step outside of your situation for a minute and read your post as if someone else had written it, what do you see? If this was your friend would you recommend letting a poor decision maker make decisions about children, would you support the idea of someone who is physical have children for several days at a time without supervision? I agree with you that children want and need both parents, but please look at what is the best, safest way to provide that to your kids.  What is best for your kids not what is "fair" to your husband.

Leaving a relationship isn't easy, divorce isn't easy, and there are so many emotions involved, but IMO your gut is right, it's just taking your heart sometime to catch up.  It's natural that you have mixed emotions about all of this, it's okay to have them and feel them and process them.

Take Care,
Panda39

[talking rose]

I know you are right because my therapist and my friends are all telling me that I need to pursue full custody, and allow him limited visitation.  I don't know why this scares me so much.  Currently and for the last 10 years, I have been a stay at home mom (working part time mostly from home) and I am very confident in my ability to parent them alone, so I know that is not the issue.  For some reason, I am scared of fighting him for the custody.  And a part of me feels that it is wrong to not allow a parent custody, save extremely abusive situations.  Then again, I know that if I do win sole custody (maybe I am also afraid of losing?) I know that I would allow him as much visitation as he wants, assuming it is okay with the children's schedule as well.  And I also know that he has proven to not always have the children's best interests in mind when parenting.  So why am I so conflicted on this?  I feel frozen, this dilemma is holding me back from filing for divorce right now so I have to get my head straight on this.

[bus boy]

In my experience with Xw, coparenting is between difficult and nonexistent and when I do have to deal with her on parenting she is manipulating and ignorant. She will not talk to me and 2 years only spoke enough to manipulate or emotionally abuse. I am trying to keep to the order, that is what I am working towards to make it work for s10 and I, Xw wanted to switch last week and I said I am going to keep with the court order. If I don't go along with her I'm a prick, if I do go along with her I'm still a prick. I have or I am managing to stick to the order and maintain little to no contact with Xw. It's a learning process and always a work in progress. I don't react, I don't expect, I am cautious when she is nice, it's like dealing with a child, if I send s10 home with clothes from my house, I will never see them unless I ask, lunch containers, anything at all never finds its way back unless I ask and when dishes come back the mouldy food is still in them. It's like dealing with an ilmanered child. You will find your happy spot in learning how to deal with these children we were married to.

[RedPill]

Dear Talking Rose,

I'm in the same boat. When my ustbxBPDw filed for divorce about 6 weeks ago, she said that our D15 desired to stay with both of us. I concurred, and figured that meant we were proceeding with 50/50 joint custody. Surprise! When I received the official divorce summons she (or her lawyer) asked for full custody with visitation. Even then I felt "bad" about responding in kind. That's the FOG. However, as I tracked our childcare hours and responsibilities and saw on paper that I currently (and historically) take care of D15 70% of the time, I began to see through the FOG. Numbers don't lie. It helped me to acknowledge that I was indeed a "good" parent and even perhaps the stable and rational influence that was healthier for D15 over the impulsive and disordered behavior of her mother.

What if you aren't living in the ideal world?

This struck a chord. I find myself making the same excuses as well. In an ideal world, I would want my D15 to have a loving, healthy, stable relationship with her mother. Unfortunately, pwBPD does not inhabit an ideal world, nor do her actions show that she is even trying to. And that's not my fault. I can only control my behavior.

Listen to your friends. Listen to your gut. You may not like hearing it, but they will tell you what is right.
--
RP

[Panda39]

I'm going to tell you something a member here told me when I first arrived and that was... ."focus on your kids and what they need"... .stop focusing on what your husband wants.  He's an adult and it's his job to fight for what he wants or thinks is best for your kids and the same goes for you.

Push through the fear you are having and take care of your kids they can't do it for themselves it's your job they depend on you.  You may not get everything you want in court but you won't get anything if you don't ask for it and fight for it or if you hand everything to your husband on a silver platter.  I know it's scary, it's unknown and it's in the hands of a judge but you can do it... .you have to do it for your kids.

You might want to post over on the Legal Board there is a lot of wisdom and experience over there about divorcing someone with BPD.

But to get back to your original question, I think working on getting out of the FOG would be a great first step in disengaging and that will take creating some boundaries. I've attached links on both subjects for you to check out.

FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt or Emotional Blackmail
https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Boundaries

Are when you put your values into action and clarify what is and what is not acceptable to you and act accordingly to defend these values.
https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a120.htm
https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

I hope I've given you some helpful information to get you started.

Panda39

[RedPill]

Things are evolving. Here's what is going on.

We're still both in the house. UstbxBPDw has been advised not to pay mortgage, utility or other expenses by her L so I'm paying for it all. Financial disclosures are underway. It appears that she is not fully disclosing her assets yet. I have discovered a lot of the information on my own and reported it to my L. We have put together a transport schedule for D15. No temp orders yet.

PwBPD spent the last 6 weeks staying in her room with the door closed 99% of the time I was home. She would come home late at night or not at all. Just when I got accustomed to not having to interact with her, she began moving more freely about the house, leaving her door open, and approaching me wanting to start discussions about divorce business. I am having difficulty with the change and am feeling anxiety and defensiveness around her. I feel I have no choice but to ignore or avoid her, but also feel that I'm the "immature guy" in the situation. I recognize that these may be old tapes that I'm replaying from our r/s but I cannot squelch the feeling.

As advised earlier in this thread, I'm having a hard time playing it "light, friendly, and open." I guess my self-confidence has not recovered to the point that I can stop being so defensive around her.

Any suggestions or advice to help me through this? I'm going to return to the Ending Conflict and Improving Board for some direction.
-
Thanks!
RP

[talking rose]

Things are evolving. Here's what is going on.

We're still both in the house. UstbxBPDw has been advised not to pay mortgage, utility or other expenses by her L so I'm paying for it all. Financial disclosures are underway. It appears that she is not fully disclosing her assets yet. I have discovered a lot of the information on my own and reported it to my L. We have put together a transport schedule for D15. No temp orders yet.

PwBPD spent the last 6 weeks staying in her room with the door closed 99% of the time I was home. She would come home late at night or not at all. Just when I got accustomed to not having to interact with her, she began moving more freely about the house, leaving her door open, and approaching me wanting to start discussions about divorce business. I am having difficulty with the change and am feeling anxiety and defensiveness around her. I feel I have no choice but to ignore or avoid her, but also feel that I'm the "immature guy" in the situation. I recognize that these may be old tapes that I'm replaying from our r/s but I cannot squelch the feeling.

As advised earlier in this thread, I'm having a hard time playing it "light, friendly, and open." I guess my self-confidence has not recovered to the point that I can stop being so defensive around her.

Any suggestions or advice to help me through this? I'm going to return to the Ending Conflict and Improving Board for some direction.
-
Thanks!
RP

Avoiding conflict does not make you the bad guy.  The mature thing to do here is to keep your boundaries up.  You can be civil and polite (good morning, good evening, etc,) but you do not have to engage in any conversation outside of cordial greetings.  Sometimes, with a pwBPD, even civil and cordial greetings can be misinterpreted, so remember that however she interprets your words and tone is her problem, not yours, and you don't have to defend yourself or further engage in any way.

After 2 months of separation, I am only starting to notice the contrast in my own self confidence when I am in his presence vs. not around him.  I am working on establishing my own boundaries so that I don't feel the need to defend myself or take anything he says personally.  It never was about me anyway. 

Keep us posted, these are very trying times.

As for me, I filed for divorce, asked for full custody with very generous visitation.  Scared of what the results will be but for now I feel confident knowing I am doing what is right, and I leave it to God to take care of the end result.  Accepting that not everything is in my hands helps me overcome my fears.