Accused of being selfish... advice needed.

[Zoaron]

Once again I've been pushed away and put on the black side.  And I have a question in the meantime while I wait for her to pull me in again in a couple days.

I think I'm noticing a pattern with how things start to spiral because she comes to me to talk about an issue she has with her family.  I'm always there to listen and I reaffirm that with her all the time.  But when I say one thing, suddenly she says everything is about me and I always have to make things about me. For example, she complains that her dad has a tattoo to remember his mom because she passed recently, but the one I care for feels her dad did it for himself to make it about him instead of for the mom. And I make a simple comment like 'I not a big fan of tattoos and I know your opinion about this tattoo too'. And suddenly she accuses me of making this all about me.   I validated and revalidated her feelings again and again, and I think I got a better result than I have lately cause she didn't say anything about blocking me this time, though she did say she wishes she never met me.

Does anyone have experiences like this where you say one thing and then you're accused of being selfish?  Maybe someone has some advice for me st all?  I would definitely appreciate it.

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[isilme]

Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing.  Everything that you try to say "may" be misconstrued according to their internal emotional turmoil.  It's really often not what YOU say, but how they FEEL about what they heard. 

In this case, it sounds like she was focusing on her perceived selfishness or motives of the dad... .not tattoos.  Tattoos were a secondary focus of the conversation.  So anything that did not reinforce her ideas that the dad was not acting correctly is invalidating in her mind, and talking about tattoos to her sounded like you were changing the subject and talking about things YOU like and want - hence the accusation.  She was talking about the dad, not how you feel about tattoos.  To you, you were validating her feelings about tattoos in general.  To her, she was talking about not liking an action of her dad's.  Your comment was non-sequitur in her mind. 

Often, when you feel like you are walking on quicksand, try to find a way to not engage in the conversation.  Find some no committal comments you can make that pretty much say nothing but let her feel like you heard her, or find a way to leave the conversation, period, by remembering a chore or errand.  You don't HAVE to validate every comment.  You don't have to respond to every comment. 

[Zoaron]

That's a great insight that I never thought of.  I do know she had a great disdain for her dad so what you says makes perfect sense.  Thank you for bringing light to the issue.  I guess I'll need to find and practice some non-committal comments you mentioned.

[Mustbeabetterway]

I have read that when someone accuses you of being selfish, it is about control.  Saying you are selfish makes you feel guilty.  You don't sound selfish.  You are trying to find a way to validate soeeone important to you.  That is not selfish.

One way to validate is just to repeat what the person says in your own words.  I hear that you ... .  Sometimes that is validation enough.

It's all about push and pull for sure, but there are ways to reduce the conflict. 

Good luck and much peace to you.

[isilme]

One way to validate is just to repeat what the person says in your own words.  I hear that you ... .  Sometimes that is validation enough.

Yeah - repeating what they said sometimes is good - it demonstrates that you are actively listening, and kinda asks for no emotional input from you.  Or, "that sounds right", "I agree".  Validation is not terribly hard when you are able to agree with the comments.

Wehn you DON'T agree with the comments, it' get hard to validate that you hear how they feel but don't share that feeling or belief yourself (like being called selfish - you can't get away with just saying "yup, I'm selfish, sure thing."

I think for me, I try to look out for signs we're in a "real conversation" where I can talk to him pretty freely, and when he's venting his emotions and needs to get them out, where I need to hold back on MY feelings and let him know his are being heard.  There is a difference.  Somehow, can't tell you how as I am sure the signs are different person to person. 

We want to talk freely to this person with whom we have such an investment... .but due to their emotional disability, it's not always possible. 

See what the conversation is about/what type of conversation it is.  Find ways to say, "that's nice, dear," that aren't "that's nice, dear."  :D  It lets them continue talking and venting and you just committed to nothing and stated nothing. 

[Gumiho]

The times I've been called selfish, I can't count them on my fingers anymore, I think it's mainly because pwBPD judge on their feelings rather than on facts.
Though my gf sometimes let it shine through during further arguments saying things like "I thought you were a good person" or "I thought you're different" or in times of (rare) insight "You said you will understand me, even if I'm wrong, and don't attack me" (note a mere sigh in the wrong moment is percieved as an attack) - though she seems fully aware of her episodes - I haven't even once heard an apology in two years. It was always me, even though she mentioned it herself once that "it needs two people for a relationship"... .

If I don't comply I'm labeled as selfish automagically... .no matter what kind of dissatisfying facts about our relationship I'm hiding for her sake (to avoid triggering her). The bag of tolerance will always be filled to the brink over and over, and eventually will overflow.
That's (and more) we're supposed to deal with come or go. Dam hard...

[lostandconfused6]

I go through this also mostly when it comes to family (who is very self serving and use my boyfriend) i will repeat something that had been said to me in an earlier conversation and he will get angry or i will give advice and he says oh of course let me just cut off my family so you can have me all  to yourself that would work out just perfectly for you i know you would love that and its not even close to what i said.

I learned very quickly the last couple of weeks to just say i understand how you feel. How do you think this should be handled? What do you feel you can do to fix things? Also i am very quick to shut him down when he gets aggressive or flips on me for no reason. I say i am very sorry you feel that way or that youre having a bad day but i'm not here to make it worse im here to listen and try to help you when possible and he is very quick to apologize typically.

He tends to open up more that way. He doesnt have friends to go to so unfortunately some of my advice does look self serving sometimes because in the end it does also benefit me.

[Zoaron]

So it's officially been the longest it's been since she pushed me away and then not contacting me again.  Before it was always been within 2 days till she would message me and pull me back.  It has now over that time limit.  I'm so scared that she has left me for good and there will be no pull, but I try to have hope.

I tell this to me now all the time, trying to live by it:

Be strong. Strong for love.  Strong for her.

[Gumiho]

For me it used to be a couple of hours until she cooled down. In the first year or something. I used to go near her house, buy some nice present then call her and soothe her. (in hindsight that was wrong and like rewarding her NCing)
After about a year her episodes got much more frequent and violent, sometimes one or two days.
Her moving to that remote town last fall then additionally made it harder to get the cat down from the tree, sometimes she stays in NC for a week or more.
However long she takes, I never can get used to it. I end up getting depressed and guilty always. Like now ㅠㅠ I often got called childish when she checked on me for crying and saying I'm not a man. As if she can't relate to what I'm going through... later when she pulled me back in she'd make jokes about me sobbing and laugh it off ... so cruel...
anyways~ fighting!

[Zoaron]

So, she messages me today.   I lost her.  She doesn't want me anymore, though she says she loves me.

I'm so lost... .

[Gumiho]

I've been told that uncountable times! Is there no way to make her feel wanted (pursue her) for you?

[Zoaron]

Nope.  She told me doesn't want me anymore.  So she tried to be my friend, and not even three messages in she twisted my words again and started making me feel like ----.  She blocked me but I found a way to send her a message to tell her that I'm done getting insulted and having my words twisted to make me the bad guy.  That's the big thing I've learned is you need to take care of yourself first.   If you need to sent boundaries, then set them.  :)ont get me wrong, I love her still.  But she doesn't love me in the same way anymore. I told her that when she's able to talk civil to me, I'll be there for her.  But until that time, I won't be responding to her.

[Gumiho]

... .She told me doesn't want me anymore.  So she tried to be my friend ... .

That's like a 1:1 copy of what my gf said before I learnt about BPD. I clearly told her if she isn't my gf anymore we can't be friends. She tried to do the same in her last major splitting 4 months ago. She told me her heart is 50:50. I repeatadly ensured her that there is no 50:50 to me. Either she's my girlfriend or we are well nothing.
She still came back

Like last night she called back out of the blue, complaining about being exhausted and hungry. I acted cheerful as if nothing happened. Then she hung up after 2 minutes... .Jesus
I still don't know how to tell her that she must not step over my boundary about her special event/non-invatation. gee...

[Gumiho]

... .to tell her that I'm done getting insulted and having my words twisted to make me the bad guy.  

To be honest that will never happen. Most likely even if she promised you.
She will always have a new trigger to go ballistic right into your face. It's why most of the guides --> suggest that the changes need to be done on our side, as in, how we deal with their volcanoness.
Not saying it's easy, cuz it's certainly not

At this point I'd suggest to set realistic boundaries (no offense bro). In my case, my non-blocking boundary must have been shot over the top. She told me that she -can- block anybody, (quote: mom, my sister and friends) if she wanted to.
... Maybe it's best to take baby steps in terms of boundaries, if a too big to cope with one is in question.

[Zoaron]

That's why I'm doing self-care now.  She knows she has BPD.  She at first said how much it meant to her that I was going out of my way to learn all I can about it.  And then she flips and says its an invasion of her privacy and doesn't want me looking into it anymore.  This part happened a couple weeks ago, so I had to resort to learning about it behind her back.  I've read books, looked on several credited health web pages, watched YouTube videos, joined this message board, and even gone to the Centre for Mental Health for support.  But in the end, I guess the BPD was stronger.  I always said our love was stronger than anything.  And I have to say congratulations to everyone who's love did overcome the challenges of BPD, and I envy you.  I loved her with all my heart.  I really did... .and still do.  But, she broke me.  When we can't even go two hours instead of the normal two days after getting back together without getting triggered, I have to ask if she truly wants to get help.  

I just don't know anymore.  She broke me.  BPD broke me.

[Gumiho]

When we can't even go two hours instead of the normal two days after getting back together without getting triggered

That got pretty common in my r/s.
Then we had longer periods (up to 3 weeks) without fighting... .Well, none can put up with this for long and don't ever blame yourself about it.
There were multiple occasions I was ready to give up... even now I'm inclined to drop it like a hot stone. But I didn't. Still fighting my demons.
Mom multiple times told me to grab my legs and run the hell out of this r/s as fast as I can, last night, after showing her the flyer of gf's special event and mentioning that gf still hasn't told me about not to speak of an invitation (both mom and me helped her preparing a part).
My friends all are worried about my mental health coming from the toll this relationship takes on me. Some even started to avoid me because of my constant whining...
Anyways whether you leave or stay I'll support you however I can. I know either way of the fork we stand at is damn painful ._.
And here I am, still unsure which path to take

[lostandconfused6]

So, she messages me today.   I lost her.  She doesn't want me anymore, though she says she loves me.

I'm so lost... .

I have been there quite recently the first few times he would leave me he would contact me in 1-2 days the last few times it's been a 5 then a week then a week and a half every time gets a little longer and a little harder. I just keep the conversation going despite what he says and we end up back together (this was before him being officially diagnosed with BPD i used to think it was bi polar and ptsd)

You have to decide what is best for you and your life. Do you walk away or try harder?

[Zoaron]

You have to decide what is best for you and your life. Do you walk away or try harder?

I've struggled with this question for a while now.  Even now I do because I had nothing but dreams about her last night.  The first time I've dreamt of her for the whole night. She was a part of every single dream I had.  But I'm just so tired of being made the bad guy.  Egg shells doesn't even begin to describe it as it seems anything I say or do is twisted now.  Like I said, I broke. 

[lostandconfused6]

I've struggled with this question for a while now.  Even now I do because I had nothing but dreams about her last night.  The first time I've dreamt of her for the whole night. She was a part of every single dream I had.  But I'm just so tired of being made the bad guy.  Egg shells doesn't even begin to describe it as it seems anything I say or do is twisted now.  Like I said, I broke. 

I unfortunately struggle with this question also, especially after yesterday. I'm not sure if you have said this or not but is she willing to seek therapy together?

[Zoaron]

No we haven't.  She comes up with excuses on why she can't go to her own individual therapy as well. It's like the saying that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.  She needs to want help as well. She obviously does want my support, even when she's in the middle of pulling me back. She changes her mind and doesn't want me learning about BPD where before she said 'you don't know how much that means to me' when I told her I was going to learn.  Now it's an invasion of her privacy.  My heart is torn to pieces and every piece feels differently.

Some lyrics to a song come to mind.

I hate you, I love you
I hate that I love you
Don't want to but I can't put nobody else above you

[isilme]

BPD is so tricksy to manage that therapy is often not a lot of help, anyway.  It can often degenerate into the pwBPD thinking the T is backing all their twisted thoughts and ideas, and ganging up on the Non, or the T is wrong, lying, hates them, and so they suck and the pwBPD is never going back!

A mess either way. 

BPS is about shame avoidance, about not being responsible for you own feelings or actions based on those feelings.  Therapy is about becoming aware of your feelings, their causes, and learning new behaviors and accepting responsibility for fixing them.  BPD is almost diametrically opposed to therapy just based on how it all works.  You are correct - until she makes a decision to seek help and follow the T's advice, she will very likely not improve. 

I am sorry she decided to text-break up.  I have to agree that no matter what she has said based on her feelings NOW, feelings change, and while you are painted black at the moment, do not be terribly surprised if a call/text seeks you out again.  It may be a week or two - it may be a month or more. 

I never told H about my feelings he has BPD.  I saw it as futile, and as a source for an argument.  When I have spoken about it to him, it's only in relation to working through my childhood traumas of both parents having it.  I think your GF liked you learning about it to the point of acknowledging to her that she has a condition that to her means she does not have to feel bad for losing her cool.  I think it's a great excuse for her exploit.  But when someone delves deeper into it, and sees how to work on managing it, what the pwBPD could do to be better, it becomes a threat, meaning she can no longer hide behind it if you learn too much about it. 

[lostandconfused6]

No we haven't.  She comes up with excuses on why she can't go to her own individual therapy as well. It's like the saying that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.  She needs to want help as well. She obviously does want my support, even when she's in the middle of pulling me back. She changes her mind and doesn't want me learning about BPD where before she said 'you don't know how much that means to me' when I told her I was going to learn.  Now it's an invasion of her privacy.  My heart is torn to pieces and every piece feels differently.

Some lyrics to a song come to mind.

I hate you, I love you
I hate that I love you
Don't want to but I can't put nobody else above you

I got the same response this weekend all last week he was in tears that he means so much to me and i think he's worth all this and he wants help he's just scared (self realization is a hard thing for him) ... .sat night im a nosey controlling b*tch and he doesn't want help and wants me out of his life... .sunday night he's reading about it again and asking me questions and telling me he reacted like he did because "i pushed" he decided to start a journal last night and said i scare him i asked why he said all of this scares him (as in figuring it out)  i have been on this journey a very short time but i'm learning quickly it is 1 involving a lot of back and forth and very touchy

I wish i could offer better advice unfortunately i'm learning as i go... .i just said earlier on a post i made i have a degree in psych so you would think i would be better at this... .but when your heart is involved i think all degrees and logic go out he window sometimes. 

[Zoaron]

I am sorry she decided to text-break up.  I have to agree that no matter what she has said based on her feelings NOW, feelings change, and while you are painted black at the moment, do not be terribly surprised if a call/text seeks you out again.  It may be a week or two - it may be a month or more. 

It wouldn't surprise me.  Although yesterday when she messaged me after a couple days, she tried to say that I was the one that should've contacted her instead of her contacting me.  And the last time I did that, she responded by saying "What do you want?"   Not exactly the way I want to be greeted.  And this time I told her that the reason I don't contact her first is because I'm scared that if I do, whatever I say is just going to get twisted again and thrown in my face.  Yet, she says actions speak louder than words.

I never told H about my feelings he has BPD.  I saw it as futile, and as a source for an argument.  When I have spoken about it to him, it's only in relation to working through my childhood traumas of both parents having it.  I think your GF liked you learning about it to the point of acknowledging to her that she has a condition that to her means she does not have to feel bad for losing her cool.  I think it's a great excuse for her exploit.  But when someone delves deeper into it, and sees how to work on managing it, what the pwBPD could do to be better, it becomes a threat, meaning she can no longer hide behind it if you learn too much about it. 

I know she doesn't know much about BPD, and she claims to want to learn cause she's on a Facebook group for BPD and had me invited in it so I could learn more from other people's personal experiences, only to have me banned from it two or three days later.   This may sound conceited but I'm pretty sure with all the research on BPD I was doing just in the first week, I know more about BPD than she does.  And I know I still have tons to learn as I feel the learning will never end with this subject.  And you may be right about her using BPD as an excuse. 

[Zoaron]

So, she called with her home phone today.  But I wasn't able to answer, yet I was hesitant to answer I will admit.  So I sent her a message later that I missed her call.  She asked who this was, so apparently she erased my contact from her cell phone.  I told her and she said she never called and she even checked her phone.  So either her child called, or she's lying cause I know her home phone doesn't keep track of out going calls except the most recent redial number.  I'm more leaning towards the lying part since she has admitted to me that she does lie a lot.  Oh, I told her that I'll leave her be and she said please do.  So I guess I won't be wishing her a happy birthday tomorrow.

[Zoaron]

A small update from yesterday.  After I said I'd leave her be, a couple hours later she decided to send me a message to continue to berate me about the same issue as the day before.  Saying that I called her a liar and try to wiggle back into her life  and that when I'm done being a d--k to let her know.

I ended up writing her a long paragraph saying that I never called her a liar and that I'm going to wish her a happy birthday now since I won't be talking to her at all on her birthday and when she wants to talk to me without twisting my words and insulting me, I'll be here.

[Gumiho]

I ended up writing her a long paragraph saying that I never called her a liar and that I'm going to wish her a happy birthday now since I won't be talking to her at all on her birthday and when she wants to talk to me without twisting my words and insulting me, I'll be here.

Good job reminding her that you will be there, and while it's perfectly understandable and hard, I spot 3 negative words my gf could go ballistic from; "won't" (debatable), "twisting words" (reason to trigger), "insulting" (also reason to blow up)

[Zoaron]

Good job reminding her that you will be there, and while it's perfectly understandable and hard, I spot 3 negative words my gf could go ballistic from; "won't" (debatable), "twisting words" (reason to trigger), "insulting" (also reason to blow up)

Thanks.  I do that as much as I can, and I even reminded her how much I love her.   But I've validated till I was blue in the face and tried to avoid the negative words as much as I could, but nothing wouldn't stop her or lower the amount of rage she was doing on me.  This is why I set up this boundary.  To keep my sanity and to give her time to hopefully calm down a bit.

[Gumiho]

Wish my communication channels were open ^^
Thanks to our long history of blocking me I can't tell anymore how to reach out. She's become quite adept at blocking LOL
Well I always gave her all space she needs~ let's wait and see

This reminds me of a friends hubbys story. His mother is a surefire pwBPD... she recently managed to silent treat her son for 4 months straight (being over the age of 60 too)... .scary

Good luck to you

[Zoaron]

Wish my communication channels were open ^^
Thanks to our long history of blocking me I can't tell anymore how to reach out. She's become quite adept at blocking LOL
Well I always gave her all space she needs~ let's wait and see

This reminds me of a friends hubbys story. His mother is a surefire pwBPD... she recently managed to silent treat her son for 4 months straight (being over the age of 60 too)... .scary

Good luck to you

Thanks and good luck to you too.  Most of the times, I'm nervous of having the communication channels open because then I wonder what am I going to say next that she's going to twist.  We've been off and on blocking each other as well.  I blocked all communication last night, and though I said I was going to keep her blocked today, I unblocked everything just before going to sleep last night.  That's the only reason I block now was just to end that session of her raging on me.  So I just block for a couple hours and that's all.

[Gumiho]

Aw thanks~

I did attempt to block gf once a couple of months ago. I felt so bad after 2 hours, I unblocked again.  she threatened to call the police. Holy cow did she rage.
 You don't have to block by the way (it's a common trick here in Korea), using airplane mode you can read without the read flag being set.

 I'm still on silent treatment. I stopped reaching out (trying to call) two days ago though, as a consequence of her statement a couple of days ago "of course I can block anybody I want and whenever I want, my bf, my sister, my mother" blabla... ."if you don't like it DON'T CALL ME" (that's seahorse logic lmao). I did however ask big sister how the concert was ^^

How are you doing?