recycle in progress; my guard is on high

[chillamom]

Hello, "fellow travelers",

After months of manipulation, guilt and pleading on the part of the diagnosed BPD/NPDexbf, I succumbed to the FOG and agreed to see him a few times a week as a "loving friend" -which means companionship, sex, and a whole lot of cognitive dissonance on my part.

For many reasons (huge age gap and he wants kids, my kids despise him, major differences in foundational beliefs) this 8 year relationship was and is doomed, which is why I am not posting on other boards.  I am detaching still in my mind and heart, which is a crappy place to be in, and basically going through the motions for his sake, which honestly is stupid and sucks completely.  He is well aware that I see nothing long term with us, but I think he's hoping I'll change my mind.

I can't say anything about this to my friends or obviously my kids, who would be completely distraught. everyone is aware of how I was treated and about his anger and verbal and emotional abuse.

I'm partially just venting here but I do have a question:  I have told him repeatedly that I really can't feel the way he wants me to feel, because there is such a long and volatile history of abusive behavior on his part (and I eventually started responding in kind, so I certainly played a part in the mess).

Am I being terribly unfair to him at this point by not being able to put the past behind me and just 'live in the moment" now?  I have forgiven him, but I cannot forget the things he said and did - abuse over that many years can justifiably take a toll - or should I just forget it happened? 

He has been on good behavior for the past 3 weeks that I've been seeing him, and he claims that the way he acted before was due to stress he was under and won't happen again.  In past recycles, it DID happen again and I feel that past behavior predicts future behavior and it's a matter of time. 

He refuses to accept his diagnoses, refuses any medication, refuses DBT.  Am I right in thinking its just a matter of time before the screaming/name calling/accusations etc. start over, or am I being a fool and not giving him a chance?

And anyone thinking of a recycle….please look at this as a cautionary tale.  Apparently I can't learn.  I just keep going back into the FOG and misery, and still, I feel so sorry for HIM.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[roberto516]

I'll be honest. Outside of a commitment from both of you to check out individual, couples therapy, and DBT on his part then it will happen again. I know I hold an unpopular opinion at times but I believe that relationships can always succeed no matter what has happened. I know a couple who the wife was cheated on and they went to therapy and they put it behind them with him becoming more aware of what was going on in his own life and vice versa. I know another couple who were doomed from the start and me and friends actually had friendly wagers on how long they'd last. They went to couples therapy, he has continued his medication regiment for his bipolar and they are now married and appear to be doing very well.

But that takes two partners willing. If my ex ever tried to recycle me I'd flatly ask her (if I responded at all) what have you learned by working on yourself? If the answer doesn't entail insight into her own family dynamics (she thinks her family is perfect), the role she played regarding her own infantile view of relationships, and the way she can be more mindful of her emotions, how she has learned to communicate better, and how she learned to figure out compromises and solutions to difficulties between us instead of just suppressing and resenting and responding to impulse then I would never give her the time of day again.

Why would I only accept her back if she could tell me this insight? Because it's the insight I have gained. And it's not good enough for just one person to put the work in to change while the other just thinks that time apart and a commitment to mentally change will suffice the second the brain goes back to impulse behavior mode.

None of this is meant to be a judgment. If he was getting the work that he needed to (and you as well) perhaps you would both have found a rekindled love. But merely continuing the same pattern of behavior with no change from both parties does mean that, more than likely, it will happen again. Especially as you already have your foot out the door it seems. If you have no intention of working on yourself (not saying you aren't) while supporting him through his own struggles no matter what he does or doesn't do than a BPD relationship can't work.

Maybe a ramble, hope it helps bring some clarity.

Lastly, as I read your post I feel like this is what my ex probably thought from the first recycle to the discard. Not being able to forget words said etc. and not being able to put 100% of herself into the relationship again (although I don't think she ever did). If I am in his shoes, which I am in a way as I was the beggar, the best thing to do would be to let him go, go to therapy to gain insight into your caretaking role and why it's not something you can let go, and find ways to go full NC. Whether that's threat of police involvement if he doesn't stop, etc. But the responsibility is on you. I can tell you that after months of begging for my ex to see the light I have finally given up. I had my extinction burst as she just stopped responding or would respond very callously and angry (rightfully so after things I said). He will give up eventually like me but if you respond to him, agree to speak to him, see him etc. you are giving him his fix. He won't ever be able to break the addiction. And you won't either because the begging and attention is feeding something in you.

I have a question. If you left him and he said "okay" and stopped contacting you completely. How would you feel? After some time would you start wondering what he was up to? Maybe want to reach out to see if he's okay? If so, then it's not that you feel sorry for him completely. It's that his begging and pleas of love are feeding something in you. I hate to make this sound so blunt. But we have communicated on here before and I am saying all this because I care about you and, to some extent, his own feelings as I know exactly how he feels based on my own relationship. And i know how you feel too. When I wanted to leave during the relationship I felt sorry for her too. She'd beg "please don't leave me" and it killed me. Well, that attention felt good. And it was unhealthy for both of us.

[Rayban]

CM

You've  accepted the recycle and you know what is coming it's just a matter of time.  At this point your biggest challenge is accepting this.

In the mean time just enjoy the good moments. Try to seperate the disorder from the person. If you're willing to recycle knowing nothing has changed for both of you. You know you're not ready to detach.  If you're going to continue to see him, get help on the saving board. I don't think that detaching is possible if contact is continued. Add sex to the equation and it's impossible. 

You obviously care from him but what ever help you provide him with will never be enough.  His NPD will drain you of your energy.  You are primary narcissistic supply for him. How is this helping him? How is this helping you?

[chillamom]

Hi, roberto516

Thank you for your thoughtful reply; I follow your struggles on here as well and know that you have mentioned a few times that you can relate to the way my ex behaved prior to the recycle, as it was something that you engaged in to an extent also.  I wouldn't have said yes to this (again) if I still didn't feel something for him, I certainly do, and I'm sure your ex felt exactly the same way.  Its very very hard to let go of, and as much as many would downplay the addictive part, it's clearly a significant aspect of the situation for both parties.

I appreciate your honest question, and if he said "okay" and never contacted me again, I of course would wonder how he is doing and I would feel a great sadness,  I've discussed this with my therapist a great deal (I'm sure she's sick of me after years of hearing the same stuff).  I do like to be needed, it IS flattering that someone very young and handsome (in my eyes) is so interested in me, yes, that dynamic is there for sure.  There is also beneath it all a great deal of love, attachment, and an almost parental, mentoring concern for him, so yea it would be hard.  BUT it would also be the right thing to do, and I would cry for some time and then feel a great sense of relief, as I felt when I have let him go in the past (although true NC was never implemented so how much letting go was this?)

I do not think couples therapy would help us, but I do think for some people it can work.  I have seen it with friends, and if the circumstances were different, I would try.  However, and here is the fundamental truth:  I absolutely have to let him go because he wants children and I can't have them.  He would gladly do a surrogacy (with my money of course) but I don't want to raise kids in my 60's, ….already have 3 terrific daughters, and THAT is even more fundamentally the crux of the matter.  

IF I tried to really make things work with him, I would ABSOLUTELY lose the relationship I have with my children, 2 of whom still live at home.  It took years for my oldest and I to rebuild the relationship that was damaged by my relationship with him.  They despise him for good reason, and he has NOT been around them at all for many years, due to the abusive things they have witnessed, not to mention the horrible things he has said about my oldest daughter to my younger ones, his extreme racism, sexism, homophobia (my one daughter is gay) etc.

To be completely honest, if I didn't have children or if my children were Okay with this, YES, I would likely stay with him and try to make this work.  I'm crying now just typing this, Yes, I would try.  There's still love, and maybe trust could be rebuilt.

But that's a MOOT point.  Being with him in any capacity means unequivocally losing a relationship with my daughters.  I'm not saying they would disown me,  but I have a wonderful relationship with all of them, and I hope to have grandchildren, and I know my daughters would never be in the same room with him and never change their minds.   I have tried in the past, to no avail.

Having him means losing them.  So nothing to be done here and I'm just biding time.  It sucks.

Sorry, didn't meant to rant, but the whole thing just hurts and is utterly futile, so anything I'm doing now is postponing the inevitable.  Of course I'm going to hurt when he's completely gone and of course he'll hurt when I am as well, but I literally have no choice going forward.

Thanks for listening, and I hope that your own situation is coming closer every day to an inner resolution and strength.

[chillamom]

Hi, Rayban,

Thanks, and I know you're right.  I have definitely been primary supply for nearly a decade at this point, and yes, it has drained me to a great extent.  Depression, anxiety, the stress-related activation of an auto-immune disorder; all kinds of fun stuff.  I don't understand why the hold is so strong that I would agree to yet another ride on the roller coaster knowing all this; my T is not too much help and my own doctorate in psychology is even less, . 

Obviously I'm not yet ready to detach completely, but I have no illusions about the fact that this situation is incredibly unhealthy for both of us.  Ultimately the right thing to do for both of us is for me to let him go and institute NC for real for the first time,  He has told me at some level he accepts that this isn't going to last, but he's hoping to change my mind.  I'm not going on the saving board, because I said in another response, there really is no saving this, because keeping him in my life means losing my relationship with my 3 children who literally loathe him (they saw and heard a great deal over the years) so it's just postponing the inevitable.

Thanks for your thoughts….and personally, dealing with the NPD aspects is more exhausting than the BPD aspects.  (Again, he was diagnosed by several psychiatrists over the years, so this is the real deal, as far as I can tell).

[Roselily]

Hello Rayban,
Gosh... I'm sorry ... .this is occurring ... If I may suggest ... there is book on Amazon
( google breaking your addiction to a person or relationship) ... it sounds like with time involved 8 years it may be very hard for both of you to unattach. These relationships can become and do become very addictive, due to the dynamics of the abuse cycle. We get addicted to the rare good moments, or crumbs.

Be strong, and stay on the boards for support!