It is incomprehensible to me

[Duped 1]

The complete lack of empathy or any consideration for our well being after we were the greatest thing to ever happen to them feels not even human to me. It was disturbing and disgusting that a human being could even be this way. It is incomprehensible to me

[jonmnemonic]

Your post brings back a lot of unpleasant memories for me.  Times when I was too sick to get out of bed she'd accuse me of using it as an excuse to not take care of her needs.  Other times when I had such severe back pain I could hardly breathe and was writhing in pain she acted like I didn't even exist but would sometimes acknowledge my existence by asking for a neck massage or telling me she didn't respect me because I didn't take better care of myself.  For the first years of our marriage telling me she wouldn't meet my needs until I met all of hers.  For the entire marriage acting that way even though she didn't outright say it.

No care or consideration for me at all other than how it affected her.  It has come into sharp focus how the things she accused me of were the things she herself was doing or would do.  I ran to her rescue every single time yet she accused me of not caring about her or doing anything for her.  What a twisted manipulative mind but it kept me trying harder and harder to prove to her that I actually did care about her.

The bottom line is I let her treat me this way.  I didn't always see things clearly but I knew it was wrong.  I thought if I just tried harder she would eventually come around and start showing some care and affection for me.  What a load of horse pucky.  Down but not out; I still have a lot of love to give the woman who treats me with respect.  Looking forward to the next chapter of my life.

[RedPill]

I thought if I just tried harder she would eventually come around and start showing some care and affection for me.

Nope.
--
RP

[jinglebells1989]

I've thought A-LOT about this, and I mean A-LOT.

You're thinking about what they're doing from your point of view, i.e. you're someone who wouldn't be able to do this to a person and you're acting as if they share your same viewpoint. They don't. They have a disorder that enables them to act in a horrendously cruel manner when they are faced with something that triggers the pain they have and do feel about whatever the hell caused them to have this disorder in the first place.

I had one who spent an entire day, with her mother, cooking me a thanksgiving dinner. I had leftovers for weeks. She also insisted on accompanying me to doctors visits. She would buy me gifts and bought my mom and dad chocolates, etc. Lots of stuff.

Long story short, this same person called the police and now I have a restraining order to stay away from her. This happened after a fight we had. What did I do? I simply tried to understand why she was so mad and stubborn. She wouldn't have any of it.

It's infuriating, it's sick and most importantly, it's not fair. But life isn't fair and all we can do is try our best to thoroughly understand the disorder so we can learn not to take their viciousness personally.

[Duped 1]

Yes I am looking at it from my viewpoint. I have never experienced anything like this in my 47 years. Someone who could be so sweet one minute and so incredibly cruel, selfish, hurtful, and cold the next. I wouldn't have even believed it had I not experienced it myself

[jinglebells1989]

Yes I am looking at it from my viewpoint. I have never experienced anything like this in my 47 years. Someone who could be so sweet one minute and so incredibly cruel, selfish, hurtful, and cold the next. I wouldn't have even believed it had I not experienced it myself

It's one of the hardest things I've ever dealt with, too. My emotions were, and still are some days, all over the place. Everything from the bitterest rage and hate to sadness and sorrow for her. It's just been a rollercoaster.

[ScottishKin]

I married the love of my life in November after eight years together. I'll never forget the intensity of her love as she held my hands and looked deep into my eyes; I knew at that moment she was the happiest person on the planet.

A month ago she alleged a bogus domestic abuse charge and had me removed from my home. At that moment, she hated me with the unbridled passion of a serious mental health issue.

Moments. They're all just singular moments. Their moments. It's incomprehensible to us because we travel on a straight emotional axis. They don't and never will.

[jonmnemonic]

Understanding her point of view doesn't make me any more willing to be the object of her crap.   It's easy to blame the disorder as if it has nothing to do with the person. The truth is we each make our own decisions and are accountable for those decisions.  We can blame anything and everyone but it doesn't change the fact that everything comes down to choice.

[jinglebells1989]

Understanding her point of view doesn't make me any more willing to be the object of her crap.   It's easy to blame the disorder as if it has nothing to do with the person. The truth is we each make our own decisions and are accountable for those decisions.  We can blame anything and everyone but it doesn't change the fact that everything comes down to choice.

Oh don't get me wrong. I totally agree. But the viciousness that OP describes, as we all know, is so inhuman and callous that if we don't try to depersonalize it somewhat we'll go insane.

[Skip]

The complete lack of empathy or any consideration for our well being after we were the greatest thing to ever happen to them feels not even human to me. It was disturbing and disgusting that a human being could even be this way. It is incomprehensible to me

Remember, a person with BPD over-expresses themselves. The expressions of love were exaggerated as were the expressions of contempt. To a third person looking in, the over expressions are pretty obvious - to us, less so because our egos want to believe in the positive over expressions.

This is the paradox of dealing with someone with these traits.

Duped 1, I remember reading that you two constantly fought over her negative over expressions - you wanted her to apologize. For her, they were impulsive expressions long forgotten an hour after they were said. When you brought them back up the next day, she perceived you as picking a fight.

While I wouldn't suggest getting into another "BPD" relationship, there is a lesson here. When your partner - any partner - overreacts, it is often better to validate that it was heard and just let it go. I have done this in relationships and when my partner pushes back, I listen. Often that ends it. I have very little conflict in my relationships in life.

There are many skills we can learn from these relationships.

[Duped 1]

Duped 1, I remember reading that you two constantly fought over her negative over expressions - you wanted her to apologize. For her, they were impulsive expressions long forgotten an hour after they were said. When you brought them back up the next day, she perceived you as picking a fight.

While I wouldn't suggest getting into another "BPD" relationship, there is a lesson here. When your partner - any partner - overreacts, it is often better to validate that it was heard and just let it go. I have done this in relationships and when my partner pushes back, I listen. Often that ends it. I have very little conflict in my relationships in life.

Thanks Skip-

I have thought many times what I wished I would have done differently in this RS. Besides paying attention to the many red flags instead of ignoring them because I was being love bombed and getting out of the RS early, being more validating is the one thing I would have done differently in the RS.

Some things that were said were too egregious to just let go and I actually did let a fair amount go, but I could have been more validating for sure. The situation was that she was pressing big time for me to propose and have her move in (way too much pressure and she was actually aggressive and rude about it). I was basically sending the message that the behaviors she was exhibiting were unacceptable if we were going to be a family and have her living with my kids (what a nightmare that would have been). So I was asking for improvement prior to moving forward and I wasn't letting the major insults and constant complaining go. I think had we not been considering moving forward it would have been a little easier to let it go more.

 I don't have much conflict in my life but have had a couple of disagreements with my ex-wife and have been practicing being more validating even when I disagree. This has been very helpful and eye opening.

[Helplessly]

Skip what you say makes great sense as far as developing relationship skills, but I'm with Duped on this one.

There's overreacting and there's downright insulting cruelty.  Over the course of my quest for the past month or so, I've read relationship guru articles about how it's not that difficult to deal with a BPD woman if you draw boundaries, or red pill her.  It's all crap.  That stuff may work on stubborn jerks, but not BPD. 

But in many cases the things that are said are nearly unforgivable.  Duped was getting pressure to move directly to step 3 when his radar was pinging like crazy.  I was in the same place.  My ex wanted to move in with me after a month and by that time she was already creeping people out in my family with her intensity, mainly my grown kids.  It was rather obvious that she was used to getting what she wanted from her past boyfriends because of her intimacy intensity (sex), and she WASN'T GETTING IT FROM ME.  I can at least credit myself for avoiding that catastrophe.  Then, with the impatience, came the rage.  Insulting my f$%king family.  Over the top degrading and attempting to emasculate me verbally.  Then the eventual backlash when we cross our own boundaries in defense.  Ugly stuff.

Yes, validate what they say and the leave and never return.

Seriously, screw these people.

[Skip]

The complete lack of empathy or any consideration for our well being after we were the greatest thing to ever happen to them feels not even human to me. It was disturbing and disgusting that a human being could even be this way. It is incomprehensible to me

This is point hat many of us got hung up on... .we bought into the idea that WE were the greatest thing that ever happened.  Many resisted and viewed it as improbable, but then accepted it and bought-in in a big way.

Our partners had no filters and they commonly over expressed their emotions in every direction. We could see it in many ways. Many of us in the aftermath can easily label and dismiss the negative behavior as having been over the top - moodiness, disproportionate reaction, perceived/not real, etc. Yet, we hold onto the over-the-top adulation and as a being something more than the other emotions and struggle to comprehend it. As the title says, "It is incomprehensible to me."

A person with BPD lives every emotion to the fullest. It's as if someone put an amplifier on them. Some of the emotions are so full, a person with BPD fears them. We all saw them shut down at times - I remember in my relationship her not allowing herself to feel sorrow for someone who died - I suspect that she knew that if she let the amplifier play at full force, the pain would be unbearable, so she denied it.

I think my point is that at 7 months out, we need to move past the incredulousness and woundedness (the stage one stuff) and start putting a map together on where we have been. What we have learned about human nature.

Time doesn't heal all wounds - if we don't process this stuff, it only buries them - and the next time we get hurt, all the pain from this failed relationship will also bubble to top.

I don't have much conflict in my life but have had a couple of disagreements with my ex-wife and have been practicing being more validating even when I disagree. This has been very helpful and eye opening.

Harvesting new skills is one of my learning from the journey (Stage 3).
https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/03.htm

In any year, 25% of the population has a diagnosable mental illness or addiction. Human nature and human failings are all around us and in fact, some of us have had periods of being incomprehensible. We've all been "schooled" on what can happen if we are oblivious to it.

Once we put our hands on the the reality of human nature, its not so imcomprehensible.

[Duped 1]

Skip--
The incomprehensible part is just how cruel and non empathetic she was regardless of if she had even lovebombed me or thought I was the greatest. I have never witnessed such coldness from another human being. Ever and I doubt I ever will. This is not normal human behavior in any way, shape, or form.

[jinglebells1989]

This is point hat many of us got hung up on... .we bought into the idea that WE were the greatest thing that ever happened.  Many resisted and viewed it as improbable, but then accepted it and bought-in in a big way.

Our partners had no filters and they commonly over expressed their emotions in every direction. We could see it in many ways. Many of us in the aftermath can easily label and dismiss the negative behavior as having been over the top - moodiness, disproportionate reaction, perceived/not real, etc. Yet, we hold onto the over-the-top adulation and as a being something more than the other emotions and struggle to comprehend it. As the title says, "It is incomprehensible to me."

A person with BPD lives every emotion to the fullest. It's as if someone put an amplifier on them. Some of the emotions are so full, a person with BPD fears them. We all saw them shut down at times - I remember in my relationship her not allowing herself to feel sorrow for someone who died - I suspect that she knew that if she let the amplifier play at full force, the pain would be unbearable, so she denied it.

I think my point is that at 7 months out, we need to move past the incredulousness and woundedness (the stage one stuff) and start putting a map together on where we have been. What we have learned about human nature.

Time doesn't heal all wounds - if we don't process this stuff, it only buries them - and the next time we get hurt, all the pain from this failed relationship will also bubble to top.

Harvesting new skills is one of my learning from the journey (Stage 3).
https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/03.htm

In any year, 25% of the population has a diagnosable mental illness or addiction. Human nature and human failings are all around us and in fact, some of us have had periods of being incomprehensible. We've all been "schooled" on what can happen if we are oblivious to it.

Once we put our hands on the the reality if human nature, its not so imcomprehensible.

So do they not truly feel the same as how exaggerated they are expressing these emotions to us? Is it all a show essentially or do they actually feel that way?

If so can you help me understand how they can so quickly forget such an intense feeling even if it was an overexaggeration? Is it purely survival mode at that point? i.e. "too painful so I'm just not going to think about or acknowledge that feeling"

[Skip]

So do they not truly feel the same as how exaggerated they are expressing these emotions to us? Is it all a show essentially or do they actually feel that way?

Not to overgeneralize, but overexpressed emotions are genuine emotions coming out as they are felt. So are overexpressed negative emotions. It is all coming from the heart/gut. a pwBPD can live witin these extreme high and lows.

Get an A+ on a term paper - I'm brilliant, I think I should go for a PhD.
Get an D on another term paper a week later - What's the point. I'm an idiot. I'm dropping out.
Two guys ask me to the prom - I wonder if I'll be the prom queen.
No one asks to the next prom - I'm a loser - I should end it all, everyone will be better off.

[Skip]

Skip--
The incomprehensible part is just how cruel and non empathetic she was regardless of if she had even lovebombed me or thought I was the greatest. I have never witnessed such coldness from another human being. Ever and I doubt I ever will. This is not normal human behavior in any way, shape, or form.

This might help. This what you said your first day here - similar to what you said in the OP. I think this is what I'm trying to say about holding onto the positive overexpression even months after the breakup, but easily rejecting the negative overexpression.

I'm not faulting you here. Not a bit. This is a story that is repeated by many members. My only point is that in processing what we have been through, it is actually comprehensible. The part you loved about her and the part you felt was inhuman, was the same thing - overexpression.

It was likely all genuine, all distorted, and ultimately emotionally devasting.

I fell for the lovebombing hard and started buying into the marriage talk. There were some red flags early but they really started coming out once she had me hooked. I could do nothing right and she was almost constantly criticizing and judging almost everything I did and would rip on one of my sons to me and once bragged to me about how here and a co worker had a jolly time with a conversation making fun of my son because he was too emotional. She laughed while she told me this. She would also sprinkle in unexplainable raging explosions that made no sense to me. I was on pins and needles constantly waiting for the next insult or explosion.

Our conflict pattern was that she would be disrespectful or offensive and I would try to get her to own her behavior like a normal human being should. Usually I was only asking for an apology for something nasty she said, or for validation of my feelings, or for her to simply admit to her behavior. This would result in escalating circular conflicts that would last for hours and sometimes days, much of it through texting. During the course of these conflicts I would tell her she was judgemental, critical, rude, disrespectful, self-centered, etc. To me this seemed pretty minor in comparison to the things she would say to me but she would often end up crying and then her family would see her like this and began to think poorly of me as of course she would never share both sides of the story. I was trying to get her to change this behavior so we could move forward and marry like she wanted to. Eventually this took it’s toll and she became more distant (especially due to how her family felt).

One of the great things about having a "case history" is we can see how we are advancing in our thoughts.

[jinglebells1989]

This might help. This what you said your first day here - similar to what you said in the OP. I think this is what I'm trying to say about holding onto the positive overexpression even months after the breakup, but easily rejecting the negative overexpression.

I'm not faulting you here. Not a bit. This is a story that is repeated by many members. My only point is that in processing what we have been through, it is actually comprehensible. The part you loved about her and the part you felt was inhuman, was the same thing - overexpression.

It was likely all genuine, all distorted, and ultimately emotionally devasting.

One of the great things about having a "case history" is we can see how we are advancing in our thoughts.

Skip -

Really good insights. Thank you for helping.

I have another question. What goes through the BPDs mind when the smoke clears and they think back on the relationship? Are they still feeling the good times just as powerful and the bad times just as horrific or do they see it with a bit more clarity? I guess what I'm asking is do they ever see us realistically as time moves on or is it always exagerrated even in retrospect?

[jonmnemonic]

There's overreacting and there's downright insulting cruelty.  Over the course of my quest for the past month or so, I've read relationship guru articles about how it's not that difficult to deal with a BPD woman if you draw boundaries, or red pill her.  It's all crap.  That stuff may work on stubborn jerks, but not BPD. 

I believe that having a good, healthy, or normal relationship with a BPD person is impossible.  All the tools or skills in the world won't turn a train-wreck back into a train.  From my own personal experience, boundaries only served to drive my exBPD away.  When she could no longer control me she tried for a while to regain control and then ditched me.  Their best case scenario is finding someone they can completely control that reacts in the way they want every single time.  Part of that will be them complaining about how dysfunctional their partner is but that's just the nature of the beast.

[jambley]

Their best case scenario is finding someone they can completely control that reacts in the way they want every single time.  Part of that will be them complaining about how dysfunctional their partner is but that's just the nature of the beast.

I actually agree with this, it is quite frightening to think about.

[Skip]

Their best case scenario is finding someone they can completely control that reacts in the way they want every single time.  

This might be your feeling... .but studies show just the opposite. pwBPD function best in environments with structure and and people with strength and benevolence.

And its also worth mentioning that most of our partners are one the low end or the spectrum with the majority not in the clinical range - they are predominantly people with BPD traits. When you compare the stories on this board (Detaching) to the stories on Parenting where many of the loved ones are diagnosed, you see much much lower level of social functioning than reported here.

Just having traits can make for a very difficult partner. And it you could a person with BPD traits to someone with their own emotional wounds, addictions, FOO insues, it can make for a drama filed relationship and a lot of hurt.

[once removed]

the interesting thing to me is, members on boards like Parenting, Coping and Healing, and Improving, deal with the same obstacles as many of us did (cruelness, coldness, abuse), while for the most part, their BPD partners/children/parents are actually higher on the spectrum than our exes.

their relationships will likely always have struggles, some more than others. one of the keys that helped so many of them to improve the relationship constructively was learning how many of their responses were self defeating (or relationship defeating).

on Detaching, many of us carry on with self defeating coping even after the fact. i certainly did; i genuinely believed that painting my ex black was the solution, for a time. what i was doing was really just nursing that loss of the idealization, and my feelings of rejection.

it was indeed pretty callous the way my ex broke up with me. it was also, ultimately, comprehensible; im not sure id have healed otherwise.

[Duped 1]

This might help. This what you said your first day here - similar to what you said in the OP. I think this is what I'm trying to say about holding onto the positive overexpression even months after the breakup, but easily rejecting the negative overexpression.

I'm not faulting you here. Not a bit. This is a story that is repeated by many members. My only point is that in processing what we have been through, it is actually comprehensible. The part you loved about her and the part you felt was inhuman, was the same thing - overexpression.

It was likely all genuine, all distorted, and ultimately emotionally devasting.

One of the great things about having a "case history" is we can see how we are advancing in our thoughts.

Good insights here Skip.

[Duped 1]

It's still hard to accept that someone who could be so loving at times could be so unbelievably cruel and have zero integrity. She was talking marriage just days before the discard and already had the replacement.That RS has failed already. I've never seen anything like it. That's why I'm here

[Skip]

OK.

10 months out.

What you've concluded thus far is that you were addicted to an inhuman monster. The experience was and is incomprehensible.

It's a benchmark.  

Here is what you were talking about

In March.
The lack of humanity and empathy is incomprehensible
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=308420
They have zero loyalty and zero integrity. Mine spoke of marriage and being together forever and had a replacement days later if not before we were even done. It is beyond disturbing. There is no way I could ever be with another so quick. The lack of humanity and empathy is incomprehensible from someone who often said you were there everything. So heartbreaking and cruel. Like you never knew or meant anything to them.

[Duped 1]

A lot has changed since March. I'm stronger but still struggling. I'm on my second Thrrapist. This one specializes in BPD and still is appalled at the severity of emotional abuse I endured. I'm doing a lot of reading recommended books and understanding my part. It doesn't change what she is or that my biggest mistake was ignoring the red flags and staying with her.