Detaching and Moving

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi,

I'd previously posted on the Conflicted/Deciding board.

Will be informing pwBPD in about a week, in a joint session with her T.

Packing up some of the most important things and moving them off-site in the meantime.  Will also be moving to a different state, where my dad owns a house. 

This scenario has been a threat, from her, off and on for a couple of years.  i.e. an ultimatum - if I don't do XYZ, she'll send me packing to Pop's, etc.  So now I'm choosing this myself.  A small part of me feels defeated in choosing this option, but I know it's more out of a feeling of defiance than intelligence.

The enabling that I've done, I realize, contributed to the dynamic.

What's most troubling at the moment is going through this at a time when she's been friendly and somewhat independent.

Just rambling here.  Thanks for reading.

[Jim579]

Hi,

I'd previously posted on the Conflicted/Deciding board.

Will be informing pwBPD in about a week, in a joint session with her T.

Packing up some of the most important things and moving them off-site in the meantime.  Will also be moving to a different state, where my dad owns a house. 

This scenario has been a threat, from her, off and on for a couple of years.  i.e. an ultimatum - if I don't do XYZ, she'll send me packing to Pop's, etc.  So now I'm choosing this myself.  A small part of me feels defeated in choosing this option, but I know it's more out of a feeling of defiance than intelligence.

The enabling that I've done, I realize, contributed to the dynamic.

What's most troubling at the moment is going through this at a time when she's been friendly and somewhat independent.

Just rambling here.  Thanks for reading.

[Unsureofmyself]

I think that's what hurts the most isn't it that we have enabled our BPD significant others to evolve their disorder further and created more Damage when your only intention was to help. I can empathize with this. I honestly believe that the choice you are making will have a positive outcome which will allow you to maintain a stronger outlook on the situation and help you to move past the situation. My partner would always move to a different country or county when he was in a discard phase and only return when he wanted to reconcile things with me. The only reason he would ever return here is for me and he genuinely beleives the place I live is bad for him. Giving he moves it has made the discard phases I have encountered which have been on 5 occasions in 17 months for about 2 months at a time  much easier as I can literally pretend like he doesn't exist and I do not have to worry about seeing him or hearing things about him which of course then causes you to want to see them or talk to them. I hope this makes sense

[Jim579]

Hi Unsure,

Yes, that makes sense.  Thanks for writing back.  I do hope that I'm making the right decision.  The past few days have been full of doubt.

Tonight, on the other hand--do I call this "relief?"

A big blow-up (after 3-4 relatively calm days).  I went outside to enjoy the decent weather and invited her to join me.  Within five minutes, out comes the self-hatred mixed with criticism of me.  Any attempt to reassure her that she wasn't to be blamed for XYZ just got twisted into a) not hearing her, b)  accusing her of lying, c) not taking her seriously.  ... .even though I make a point of acknowledging what she's said up front.

It's amazing how it seems that she literally can't hear me... .or herself.  When the specific issue she raised became contentious, I said I didn't want to spend the time outside arguing.  And from there, it just got worse--more general, more hurtful.  When I said that I was going back inside, the "threat" was made that she would follow me around wherever I went.

So yes, there's a perverse sense of relief that I'm doing the right thing.  I'm not slamming the door, based on a specific incident, but rather based on two pretty intense years of unhappiness. So there isn't that big "last straw" moment.

I'm doing some prep work, as far as moving important things out and setting up transportation/travel.  I really need to pick up the pace, though.  Has anyone else struggled with being sure and (almost) hoping for definitive reminders of why ending the r/s is necessary?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Jim, Welcome to the Detaching Board.  It's normal to second guess yourself when it comes to parting ways.  A BPD r/s, as you know, goes in cycles, from relatively good times to really horrible times.  It's tempting to look only at the good times, which are fleeting because the reality is that the drama and turmoil return.  Sure, we all contribute to the dynamic in a BPD r/s, but don't beat yourself up.  I'm sure you did the best you could.  No, you haven't suffered a defeat; to the contrary, you are taking steps to make a positive change, so give yourself credit.

LuckyJim

[Unsureofmyself]

Hi Jim
I still struggle even though leaving was not in my control as he was the one that disappeared littlerally off the face of the earth I think I still have unsure reservations about whether I still want to be with him or if I'd give him another chance. However I keep thinking to myself if I have to try and explain to another human being that the way they are treating me is wrong then is sort of self explanatory that the human being will never meet the standard of a relationship that you require. I found piece in this because it makes you realise that all the things which they do as you say how you partner reacted recently, you shouldn't have to explain to them why it's wrong in normal situation the person would already know it's wrong and amend their behaviour.
I think it's hard because of the emotional attachment you still feel like when you aren't helping them that they are your responsibility and ultimately what happens is your fault however I think we as nice people need to acknowledge these people are accountable for their own actions and it's up to them to stand on their own two feet.
It's a really tough situation however I would say yours is one of the hardest as you are having to make a choice to leave. I don't know if it was me who was faced with your dilemma I'd be so strong so therefore I take my hat off to you. I think that no matter what you should understand that you are worthy of someone who you mean just as much as them and they do to you. I was speaking to my sister recently and said can you imagine if I actually ever went on a date with a different man and they offered to pay and drive. She looked at me like I was insane and I said I guess you get used to a level of where being treated badly is acceptable you get used to being the hero I think then it's hard to establish that sometimes you need to be your own hero and allow others to take care of you also. Your needs matter also. I hope that helps

[Unsureofmyself]

I think just to add to my previous posting also maybe writing a list of things your partner does which you don't agree with or when they've treated you badly, a list for the times where they have treated you well, a list of things you'll gain from leaving a list of things you could potentially gain from staying. I know when writing lists as humans we have the potential to be bias towards favouring the outcome you want subconsciously it's like when your watching a to programme you automatically sway to an outcome you want for the characters which evokes emotion... I think if you then look at your lists and be honest with yourself about where you have wrote the most positives  you will be able to see if you are swaying more towards leaving or more towards staying this will help you to understand how you truly feel deep down.
 This is the sort of tool I have being using recently I wrote the things I miss about him but I also unwillingly wrote the things that I honestly will gain by him not being here and when I looked at it from a helicopter view I was able to see that staying away from him will benefit me emotionally physically, financially and for my long term goals. I hope this helps you

[SurvivingBPDex]

Good luck on your journey . I left my pwBPD 3 days ago. It has not been easy. I have support from my family . Stay strong. You deserve better.
 

[Jim579]

Thank you LJ, Unsure & Surviving.

Those are good reminders and important to hear from outside my own head.  Things just don't ring as true from the inside, do they?  I wonder if church bells believe they're off-key... .

I am partly chronicling the last few days here as a kind of diary to remind myself of what I'm stepping away from.

1.  It has to be done right now, therefore, you have to do it.

Tonight provided several examples.  I often take one cat next door (where she's temporarily staying) at her request, for company.  I have two other cats and an older dog to care for.  The unspoken assumption on my part is that she will care for our visiting cat (food, water, litter, etc.).  When this has been challenged, I've tried to hold firm on boundaries.  I haven't always been able to do that. 

Tonight, P:  will you scoop.the litter pan? Here's a bag you can use and thanks.

Response:  Well... .I think it's better if you do that, but I heard you say your leg is hurting.   Could you do it tomorrow?

P:  No it has to be done tonight, b/c cat blah blah blah (courtesy of FormFlier).

Response:  Okay, if you say so.  If you're in pain, it seems like it could wait a few hours.

P:  Slamming things onto floor.  You just want to torture me!  You never help with anything!  It would take you 30 seconds!

Response:  I dumped the box and filled it with fresh litter a couple of days ago, right?  You said your leg was hurting--since the kitchen is some distance away, I got you an ice pack and water, right?

P:  I didn't say you never helped, I said you never help if you decide on your own that I don't need something.

Response:  I don't decide what you need.  I just asked if there was another option--waiting until tomorrow, when your leg might feel better.

P:  Are you really that selfish that you can't just do that one thing?  Our cat wants so much to be good, but you blah blah blah.

2.  A specific idea, by itself, excludes all other possibilities.

Me:  It seems like we perceive things with different levels of importance.  I wonder if it would do any good to see your T together.

P:  She can't fix everything in one session!  You need to be the one to find a long term T and schedule it.  And if you're not willing to do that, then I have to seriously question... .

Me:  Wait, hold on.  I'm just talking about short term.

P:  Oh, yeah, like you've been doing for the past 10 years.  So if the only thing you can do is short term, that doesn't bode... .

Me:  You have an appointment already scheduled.  I just wondered aloud if something helpful might come out of it, if we both... .

P:  But it's not magic!  It doesn't just take once!  How many times do I blah blah blah.

3.  Old stuff is never resolved and is evidence that she should've used to end things way back when.

P:  You don't think about me now and you didn't then.  You said you didn't think about me if we weren't actually talking.

Me:  I was just getting to know you.  That was 17 years ago.

P:  Well, if I had known blah blah blah

Me:  And so all the time since then doesn't count?

P:  Name one time!  I was such an idiot to think blah blah blah.


And then, after hours have gone by, the complaint that I "don't ever listen to her."

It makes my head spin.

[Jim579]

Update:  I met with my therapist yesterday.

It was a good meeting.  She encouraged me and said that coming to a final decision is something to be proud of.  I'm mostly feeling guilt and anxiety.

She also emphasized the benefits of informing my pwBPD in the presence of her own therapist. One of them I had not heard before;  the other therapist will send us home with a plan, in order to avoid any acute situations.

My T also said that she would like to offer additional support before I leave the area. So perhaps one last appointment will be possible. She said that she would like to continue therapy for the sake of the transition process, and that once I signed a release, her office could forward her notes to any new therapist I might start working with.

I am trying to get things organized, as far as picking out the things I will definitely want to take with me. It's been going very slowly. I am trying not to panic.

[Jim579]

Hi.

I woke up this morning to feel an immense feeling of busyness in my brain.  As if a swarm of bees was buzzing around.

Finally, I remembered the dream I had.  Packing things up, trying to decide ehat to take, and driving long distances.

Such a disappointment to realize all of the energy that went into the dream, but with nothing to show for it yet!  I feel exhausted... .and I just awoke.

I take my last box of truly important things out of the house today.  Later, at her appointment with her T, I will inform her of the decision.

Such a pile of possessions to go through. 

[Harley Quinn]

Good luck Jim.  We'll be right behind you.

Love and light x

[Jim579]

Thank you, HQ.  I saw your note just before leaving for the session.  It was a nice thing to read at that particular moment.

But it looks like the session that had been planned is postponed until next Friday.  Since my P was late getting ready, we arrived late.  Her T clearly wanted there to be enough time--can't fault her for that!

But it does mean sitting with this knowledge.  And I guess, more time to pack things.

[Harley Quinn]

That must have been disappointing after getting yourself prepared.  Try to use this time to check for anything you may have forgotten to plan around I guess.  Everything happens for a reason so just hang in there and be glad it's not a month.  A week will soon go by.  Know it's going to be tough though.  You can always let your feelings out here if they pile up on you.

Love and light x

[Jim579]

HQ, I think you're right about the extra time.  And I guess it was a sort of dress rehearsal.

I saw someone else's posts about dreams.  Most of the time I don't remember mine.  That hasn't always been the case, but it has for awhile now.

Last night's was a bit intense.  I was a few years younger, and my grandpa was still alive.  I was working in my main industry again, and he happened to be the head of the company.  But instead of doing well, I couldn't get anything right.  Clumsy mistakes, etc.  He was very disappointed and pretty angry.

Which is just the opposite of who he actually was.  I think I saw him get angry/exasperated exactly once, and he apologized moments later.  So that was a bit nerve-wracking to wake up to.

The night before, it was a dream about moving, set during the time I was in college.  Forgetting things, lots of driving, doubling back, repacking.  That one was pretty obvious.

Phew!

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Jim-
I want to offer you encouragement today.  Friday will be here soon.  Please keep your head where your heels are.  I'm not sure where I heard that, but it works to keep my eyes away from the rear view mirror and my goals aimed forward.

Chin up, my friend.  Please do the BEST for you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Jim579]

Thank you, Gems.

Looking ahead has been difficult the last few days, as they've been relatively calm, with her mentioning things she'd like to do together later this year.  I feel so guilty, and a bit stupid, in that the same Calm/Frantic cycle was happening back in my "Conflicted & Deciding" thread.  I've re-read it, to remind myself, but it's not doing much good right now.

I guess, on the plus side, fewer symptoms could mean that a friendship is possible.  I can't see myself establishing NC right out the gate, even though many recommend it.  That just seems like a separate decision to me.

She's in her DBT group session right now.  It's hard to feel so final about my decision qhen she's following through with her therapy.  Not changing my mind, but boy, this is tough.

[Jim579]

I'm trying not to panic.  I hope I'm not making a big, stupid mistake.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Jim,

You've had time to think about this and your actions have been driven by what your head is telling you.  Our hearts tend to take a while to catch up.  This is hard and I feel for you.  That feeling of panic is natural at a time of big change, so remind yourself of the valid reasons you have for doing this.  I'd be scared and second guessing myself too.  Perhaps this will pave the way for something new and unanticipated which is better for all involved.  Take deep breaths and be open to what life delivers.

Good luck!

Love and light x

[Jim579]

Just back from joint meeting (myself and P) with her T.

I don't know what's wrong with me.  My heart (today) just isn't in slamming the door shut.  It's been an on-again, off-again "decision" since I first made it 3 weeks ago.

It is true that I need a break from the relationship, and my plans to go visit my father next week are still on.  Despite my own T and friends saying I made the right decision, they're not in my shoes. 

Maybe when I arrive at my father's place, it will become clearer.  I just don't feel emotionally ready to call it quits.  It feels like a "weenie move," but I don't know how else to explain it.

So many times, it's been her "deciding" that she was "going to send me" to live with my father (threats, or ultimatums).  It's been hard not to feel a bit resentful then, as it feels infantilizing to be told where I'll go.  But this is the first time I've had to try it on myself--that I'm going to go visit him when I choose, and that the relationship has worn me down.  I'm not sure that I've ever been able to speak from this position before.

Ugh.  I just don't know.  I know waffling doesn't help anyone, but I don't feel ready.  Where did I go wrong?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Jim, You didn't "go wrong" so don't beat yourself up!  When the time comes, I suspect you'll know it.  In the meantime, I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  Visiting your father is a great opportunity for you to get re-centered.  LJ

[Jim579]

Thank you very much, LuckyJim.  I know there aren't any irrevocable rules.  I'm just trying to be as clear-cut as the books/advice recommend.  We are agreed on this time (2-4 weeks) being "time away"/separation.  But that's the furthest I've gotten for now.  As her T pointed out, she can also decide things:  that she's done with the relationship ; that she's not sure; that she is open to continuing.

I'm bringing important stuff with me, in case ending the relationship is the final conclusion.

Thank you again, LJ.  I would welcome other feedback--has anyone proceeded down this separation path... .did you gain any insights?

(Deep breaths... .deep breaths... .)

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Jim, Yes, I've been down the separation road and am happy to share my experiences if you have any particular questions.  During your time apart, I suggest you focus on finding the right path for YOU.  I wouldn't bother wasting time worrying about what she "might" do or decide to do, which is out of your control anyway.  You're the Captain of your ship and you call the shots about what is best for your own life, right?  You get the idea.

LJ

[Jim579]

Thank you, LJ.  That's what it should be:  captain of my own ship.  I'm out of practice.  Your support and that of others (including my T) has helped me with these latest rudder maneuvers. 

A lot of text messages, guilt trips, voicemails over the last few days.  My T says to expect this.

I guess one question for you, LJ, would be:  was news and the aftermath of your separation handled by your W/P any better (in your estimation) than if you had simply announced an interest in leaving the r/s?  And maybe any boundaries that you set during the separation. Obviously, if you feel comfortable sharing this.  Thanks again.

[Lucky Jim]

was news and the aftermath of your separation handled by your W/P any better (in your estimation) than if you had simply announced an interest in leaving the r/s?

Hey Jim579, Help me out here; I don't quite understand your question.  Perhaps you could rephrase?

Concerning boundaries during your separation, I would suggest limiting your exposure to abusive/manipulative calls and/or messages from your W.  How you go about that is up to you, but let me say that you don't have to pick up every time she calls; and you don't have to return text messages as soon as you receive them.  The idea is to create some space for yourself, in order to get re-centered.  Suggest you make yourself the priority during this time apart.

LJ

[Jim579]

Hi LJ,

Sorry.  Yes.  I don't know the particulars, obviously.  But:

Did your wife/partner view the separation as a calming move, or did she immediately view the separation as the end to the relationship?

The latter is what my pwBPD has made of this.  It's been hard not to get pulled into conversations on the difference between the two.

I head out today.

Best,

Jim579

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Jim579,

Good luck!  I think taking a break is a wise move in the direction of positive change.

To be honest, my marriage to my BPDxW had already broken down by the time we separated, so I would have to say that it was more of the latter.  Our separation provided me with a reprieve from an abusive situation and, once away from the drama, I never seriously considered going back.  Your situation, of course, is different.

As I said previously:

The idea is to create some space for yourself, in order to get re-centered.  Suggest you make yourself the priority during this time apart.

Keep us posted, when you can!
LJ

[Jim579]

Hi everyone,

An update:

I was able to get out.  There are some days when it feels like "... .just barely." 

I moved to a different state, with help from family.  And family is relatively close by, compared with my previous location.

I'm still in touch with my xpwBPD but on a once a week basis.  So far, conversations have mostly stayed on topics of a practical nature ("What's the password for the wireless router," etc.).

But I have that feeling quite often of having just escaped from a burning building. 

I have a job, and a pretty decent one, but I was sure hesitant to start a work schedule, for fear that I'd wreck things by oversleeping, feeling overwhelmed from what I just escaped, etc.  In other words, the fear was that I'd leap into something without really being ready for it.

Sometimes I still have that feeling, but... .one has to work... .what else could I do?

The biggest issue at the moment seems to be this feeling of falling down an abyss.  My hunch is that the BPD and co-dependent dynamic from before made decisions very tangible and immediate.  Not much movement permitted--this or that emergency meant making specific decisions to deal with the next 6-24 hours.

Now, there's an incredible amount of freedom.  Sometimes this feels very good--"oh good, I can breathe again!"  But other times, it feels like there's nothing to latch onto.  No outcropping to grab hold of, to define what the next couple of days should be used for.  When this feeling strikes (2-3 times a week, mostly after work or on weekends), it's terrifying.  Since I'm not always in emergency mode or trying to take some kind of preventative action, I still have this feeling that an emergency will happen.  That I'm not doing enough... .or anything! so, of course, the (imagined) emergency will arrive.

It reminds me a little bit of the drive here:  fairly long, such that when I got out of the car, for the rest of the day, I felt like I was still moving.  That feeling would sometimes conflict with the other feeling of "I can take it easy, I don't need to practice defensive driving, I don't need to be ready to step on the brake, etc." ... .and there would be very short (2-3 seconds) moments of panic when the two feelings would collide (still moving/in vehicle vs. at rest/relaxed).

Then there are other feelings like:  the weekend!  it's here!  Oh god, I'm wasting it, I'm wasting it, I haven't done anything with it and... .here comes Monday again, oh no... .

I'm trying to keep it together externally (my job requires frequent interaction with the public, as well as colleagues at the office), but I feel like there's a bushel of Mexican jumping beans inside of me.

I hope everyone here is doing okay.

[Harley Quinn]

It's great to hear from you and well done on putting some distance and breathing space between you.  I'm glad that you are functioning, even if it feels like that is badly at times (I know that feeling all too well!).  The fact is you can be proud of yourself for keeping going and achieving what you have, so try not to knock yourself or put yourself under too much pressure.  Finding a stable norm takes time, and I still have moments where I feel much as you describe.  It is hard moving from a constant state of readiness (fight or flight mode) to a reality where that isn't necessary any more and takes a period of adjustment.

I can totally relate to letting time slip by and not really using it after having such a set routine of taking care of someone else's needs, dramas and demands.  I felt cut adrift and wasn't sure what to do with my time when left to my own devices.  Still working on that one as I find it hard to put a routine into place that just revolves around me.  Gradually beginning to take up activities that you enjoy so that you have something lined up can help a great deal, to put some structure into place.  Perhaps join a gym, take a class, see what is available in your area for you to become involved in?  

Try to tap into your soothing emotional system.  This is what can teach your mind and emotions to leave the fight or flight (threat) mode for more of the time.  You can do this by incorporating simple things into your day.  Such as taking time out to do things that you enjoy.  Making a point of connecting with people like family and friends (whether you feel like it or not), giving and receiving kindness and allowing yourself to notice for a minute or two how that makes you feel.  :)o what you love, whether that be a hobby or learning something new.  All these things move you out of that threat mode and help your nervous system to re balance itself.  Meditation, if you practise this, is a really great way too.  What ways do you find to relax and are you making a point of putting relaxation time into your schedule?  Recovery means being kind to yourself.  

How do you feel when you have contact with your ex wife?  I'm wondering how that affects you.

Love and light x

[Jim579]

Dear HQ,

Thank you so much for your response.  I have read through it a few times but would like to take a day or so and then read through it again.  Sometimes it can be hard to appreciate what another has written while caught up in the intense emotions!  But I wanted to at least thank you promptly.  More soon.

[Lucky Jim]

I have that feeling quite often of having just escaped from a burning building. 

Hey Jim 579, That's a pretty accurate description of what you've been through.  Of course you may feel disoriented or dislocated at times, which is normal.  When you get those feelings of Mexican jumping beans inside, my suggestion is for you to go with your gut feelings.  Strive to be authentic.  Be yourself.  Your fallback position is sticking with your personal truth, your core, which is your compass.

Let me know if you have any particular questions or if there is anything about my experience that might be helpful for you.

LJ