Stranded

[bituvadreamer]

Based on the descriptions I have read, I wonder if my husband has BPD.  I would like to learn how to respond more effectively to him, so that I can improve the relationship and not feel as though I am losing my own mind.  Last week, my husband and I went to a large park to do some hiking and camp out.  He wanted to take a particular trail and I said I really wanted to get a drink and sit for a while first before a long hike, but I wanted to check out the overlook.  I went down to look and then returned.  It took about 5 minutes, but when I returned, he was gone.  I waited for about 20 minutes and then started walking back to the campground.  I texted and called him and called him probably 15 times over the next two hours, but he never responded.  I walked about 7-8 miles to get back to the campsite.  Finally, when it was about 5 minutes from being completely dark out, I asked the park ranger to please get another ranger to go find him.  I had also texted and called a couple of family members to let them know what was happening.  I was crying a little bit and very scared.  I also had no money, water, credit cards or cash.  Then, my husband drove up to where I was talking with the ranger.  I got in the car and he drove us to our campsite.  He was looking for a lighter to start a campfire, but he couldn't find one, so he left the campsite again, very angry.  He left the car, so I sat in it, drinking water and waiting for him.  He returned about 20 minutes later and told me he hated it there and that we were leaving.  He said I was stupid for leaving the trail and that he didn't get any of my messages.  He said he would never go camping with me again (which is something we do fairly often.)  Then he told me not to talk to him on the 2 hour drive home.  He refused to talk even a little bit, went to bed angry, and woke up angry, refusing to talk with me.  Around 2:00 the next day, he finally spoke to me and told me over and over that I ruined the day, and that I shouldn't have told any family members what had been going on.  I told him I was very scared that maybe he was hurt and that I was stuck, without transportation and not able to communicate with him.  Nothing I said seemed to matter to him.  It was so confusing and scary to me.  I still don't understand why he was angry.  If, as he said, he didn't receive my texts or calls, it seems like he should have been worried about me, as I was about him.  And then should have been very happy and relieved when we reconnected at the campground.  But he wasn't; he was just very angry.  He makes me feel like I am losing my mind.  This happened on Wednesday night, and I can't stop thinking about it.

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[Radcliff]

Hello bituvadreamer, and welcome to the boards!

First, you are absolutely, certainly, not crazy at all!  Everything you said resonated with me.  I have lived through nearly that exact scene, many many times, sometimes camping, sometimes even on foreign vacations.  Trying to understand what is normal, when it is me and when it is not me, is so terribly difficult.

Have you read any BPD books, like "Walking on Eggshells?"  There are a couple of others I can recommend as well.  Reading has helped me to understand the patterns and seeing how my wife's behaviors fit into these patterns helped me to know what to expect and understand that I was not living in some unique crazy world.

How long have you been married?  Have there been other incidents with your husband that seemed out of kilter?

[foggydew]

That sounds completely scary. Fantastic that you managed to cope at all! However, it does sound familiar - I have had similar thimgs happen to me ... though not quite as drastic. Firstly, I think he was probably also a bit scared or stressed by the situation, couldn't cope, or followed his ideas... then was afraid of blame... .the best defence is attack... .and so it goes on. We aren't super human... we  also have reactions. As I write this to you, I realise I am reflecting on my own recent behaviour and learning what I have done which doesn't get me any farther. Might sound a bit weird, but having a relationship of any sort with these people is a challenge, but also one which can help us develop in ways which other people don't. Maybe a mixed blessing. Ok, what I have come up with for myself right now is ... no blame. Say what you don't like and leave it at that. No discussion. End of topic. Depend on yourself and no-one else. Make sure you always have all you need. He has to sort himself out, especially when he leaves you like that. I'm sure you can also have a lot of benefits from your relationship, as you probably already know, but it does have a price. I think the benefits are worth the price. Not only from the relationship, but also from what we learn.

[Radcliff]

Hello bitofadreamer,

One might ask us (or we might ask ourselves  why we are involved with someone who may have BPD, but there are no easy answers.  I have been married to my wife for 23 years, and she is an absolutely amazing person in so many ways.  Things have gotten very rough, but I appreciate her deep, good traits that I believe are very rare.  There's a "conflicted" board for those of us on the edge, but you've come to "Improving" so I'd suggest concentrating on learning all you can.  Give it some time.  It's a lot to absorb, and then figuring out how it relates to your own situation and how things might be improved takes a while.  Perhaps you could tell us a little more about how things are going with you?

[bituvadreamer]

Hello, Wentworth.  I haven't read any books yet, but I just ordered "Walking on Eggshells."  Thank you for the recommendation. 

My husband and I have been together for 6 years and married for 1.  There have been a lot of incidents somewhat like the camping incident last week, but this one really struck me because I was so scared for our safety.  95% of the time, I was terrified that he was injured or lost, but then occasionally, the thought that he might be intentionally not responding crept in.  And that made me feel really guilty.

I'm realizing that I haven't been learning more about what is happening between us because I keep hoping the problem will just go away; maybe I can be better, so he won't get so upset.  But I see now that is only going to happen by me accepting that we have a problem that isn't going to just go away. I need to read and talk, and learn some tools.

Thank you, Wentworth:-)

[snowglobe]

Dear @Bituvadreamer, your experience resonates with me in so many way. I've been left on multiple vacations, begging and pleading only to be told not to speak to my uBPDh for several hours/days. Upon complying it was only making the matters worse, leading to him threatening me with a break up because we are different people/have nothing in common/he doesn't love me anymore/wants to be happy/ you name it. Vacations are actually tolerable when we are alone, although I can't ever fully let my guard down. Whenever I feel happy or close to him it makes him extremely uncomfortable and he retreats into passive aggressive mode. Upon every conflict I have to "win him over" or else he decides to leave. It's been 16 years of him leaving, yet it never gets old, every time we get into break up cycle it feels real and authentic. I haven't found a way of dealing with this just yet... .every time he turns into a Hulk a feel that a part of my soul is dying. My kids are hurting and trying to get some attention from me. Unfortunately, most of the time I feel depleted, he is like 12 kids simultaneously seeking attention and validation. Whenever he is getting his needs met he is the sweetest kindest most generous man on the planet. I'm not sure if this would help you, but at his ugliest I try to visualize him as a little boy from the childhood pictures that I saw. Remember his traumatic experiences as a child, and try to imagine that person that little boy acting out, not a grown man. It helps to sympathize to a degree.

[bituvadreamer]

Hi, foggydew.  I think you're right that my husband was probably quite stressed about whatever was happening from his perspective.  I have always thought that he had an anxiety disorder.  He used to take some sort of medication for anxiety, but he says that he doesn't think he needs it, so he no longer takes it.

I have often noticed that something that seems fairly small to me, blows up into huge problems for him.  If we have a small disagreement, I'm over it pretty quickly.  But he remains upset for days, sometimes weeks.  I haven't been able to come up with ways to help him get less angry sooner.

After the camping incident last Wednesday, my husband remained mad at me until today.  I'm very glad he seems to be better now, but I'm worried about how this incident escalated, not just because I feel like he was maybe considering leaving me alone in the park for the entire night.  But he also did something else I don't think he has done before.  He told me that this was a "pattern" of mine, that I have gotten lost on 2 other occasions and that I was clearly doing it intentionally.  I was completely shocked when he said that because it's not remotely true.  He was blatantly lying, and I didn't know how to respond.  I said I didn't recall anything like that, but he wouldn't accept what I was saying.  And then he said we couldn't move forward, unless I admitted it. I felt completely at a loss.

I got off track because I just had that epiphany that my husband blatantly lied and I felt like there was no way to respond that would satisfy him.

What I wanted to say to you is thank you for the advice not to blame him.  I am sometimes guilty of that.  When I make mistakes, I tend to apologize too quickly, take blame, sometimes when it's not even warranted.  I know that my husband is not comfortable apologizing or saying that he is even partly responsible for problems.  But I know that, at least in my mind, I do blame him for problems sometimes.  And I'm sure that, even if I don't intend for it to be, it's probably apparent.

Thank you, foggydew.

[foggydew]

Lying. Maybe, maybe not. This is a disorder, and my uBPD person has similar 'memories'. Memories of things that didn't happen, that I never said or did. Also that I got lost or did things intentionally... .and he doesn't back down. He has severe memory problems sometimes, and it seems to me he makes things up according to his feelings of how it 'must have been'.
I also have done the same as you, taken blame, apologised for things I didn't do. Now I don't do that any more, I tell him I'm sorry he's feeling bad/or whatever, but I don't take the blame. I leave it at that. At least I feel better, and things haven't escalated in a while.
I also have a stepdaughter who suffers from bipolar, and she has a similar problem of 'remembering' things that didn't happen... .but that she may have been afraid would happen. For example, she accused me of going through her handbag when she went out of the room. I'd never do that, firstly, on moral grounds, and secondly, because she's a smoker, her handbag stinks and I have a cigarette phobia... .totally impossible for me. But she 'knows' I did it. Can't imagine whatever could interest me.

[Radcliff]

Hello bituvadreamer,

I reread your original post.  It really sounds like you kept a clear head.  Wow, 7-8 miles is over a two hour hike!  You do not seem like the kind of person who would get lost easily   I can't see anything at all you should feel guilty about!

You said that hoping you can get better has held you back from learning about the situation.  I totally get it.  I had a similar experience but you are many years ahead of me in getting on top of this, so give yourself credit for taking action when you did!   In rereading your posts, one of the things that comes through to me is that you are good at telling the facts as they happened, yet are also in touch with your feelings and his. Nothing is easy about dealing with BPD, and I can't predict how your relationship will unfold, but what you've shared makes me optimistic about your capacity to cope with the challenges ahead.

I think with all of the details you are telling us, many of us are nodding with familiarity.  Your husband wouldn't accept it unless you told him you were bad and it was all your fault.  Yes, that exact thing happens to me.  You also talked about taking blame.  You'll read that validation is a huge thing for pwBPD.  When someone heaps something on you that is mostly BS, you can completely cave and take the blame, or you can battle back, neither of which is good.  If he says you burned the appetizer and totally ruined the evening with friends and you're a bad hostess and he'll never invite anyone over again, say with humble humor, "Yeah, that appetizer was a disaster, I should have practiced" (if in fact you did burn the appetizer) but remain silent on the fact that the ruined appetizer wasn't that big a deal (perhaps it was a great evening anyway, or he ruined it with a tantrum).  Only validate something that is true.

Nuclear threats that are not followed through on are very common, and can be terrifying and exhausting.  For me, realizing the pattern that they were not followed through on (even though my wife can be *really* convincing when making the threat) helps me stay calm, feel less stress, and function better.

On lying -- foggydew is spot on.  I remember when I first read that pwBPD confuse emotions with facts and "make up" facts to match their emotions it was an epiphany for me.  That soo explained some of the things that were going on.  My wife is very smart, and normally has a much better memory than me.  I just couldn't understand it, but it totally happens with us.  A small, but crystal clear example was the other day when we were at the beach, my wife was very mad at me.  She opened the passenger door to the car and dinged the adjacent car.  I was standing four feet away, not touching her or any car.  A few moments later, she accused me of dinging the adjacent car.  Totally bizarre, but absolutely fits the pattern.  Reality gets completely warped.  It was easy for me to stay grounded in that situation (I didn't even utter any disagreement b.t.w.), but in less clear situations where she is accusing me of something that happened a day or a year ago, it can be super hard to stay oriented.

You mentioned that it took a week for your husband to stop being mad at you.  Is that typical?  Have you found that the timing of recovery after a blowup is very regular, or can it vary?  Someone else on the board mentioned a thaw that took a week.  For us, it's 72 hours, almost like clockwork.  For me, when we were in an angry period, I used to react like she'd hate me forever.  Eventually I realized that the thaw always came, which helped me to stay calmer (though even with many years of experience I'll occasionally freak out if she makes a particularly compelling nuclear threat).

A couple of other books I've read are, "I Hate You Don't Leave Me," and "Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder."  Both are good, and worth reading.

You are off to a great start, but don't take on too much responsibility for this.  You can only carry half the relationship.  I am certain with the things you will learn that you will be able to improve things.  But you will not be able to achieve wedded bliss on your own.  Have you had any success to date in getting your husband to accept some responsibility for his behavior, or understand how it impacts you?  (We are a sorry lot, if you report any success we will be thrilled

One of the books, I think "Eggshells," makes the point that pwBPD often have great positive traits.  What are some of the things that make you feel good about your husband, either that originally drew you to him, or that you've come to appreciate over the years?

When we throw all of our brains and heart into making a BPD relationship work, one of the things that's at risk is our own identities -- the things we like to do, people we like to spend time with, etc.  Do you have a couple of close friends and other things in your life that give you positive energy?