Feeling Alone

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm struggling with feeling really alone. We had a huge scare where my H was on the verge of losing his job. For 2 weeks I listened and supported while my H vented, worried, and broke down out of the emotions involved. He began talking about just quitting or working PT or finding a job that makes just minimum wage. When I would mention all our bills and debt and things we like to spend $ on he told me my life was too la ish and we could live without it. As long as we could pay the mortgage and electric we were living large. And now the threat has passed. His boss apologized. And my H is happy with work again.

But I'm left with no one to help me hold up the pieces. I've realized I need to secure my finances for myself so his income is no longer relied upon to pay all the bills. He goes through a job breakdown every 3-4 years. This means I need to find a job that makes about 25k more per year. I'm looking.

I just feel alone though. I could not share my concerns about our finances because it made him feel bad. And then angry at me for being so materialistic.

Then yesterday and this morning I just wanted to share some concerns and happenings going on with my mom and a friend's dad, and a funny/embarrassing story that happened to me. You know, normal stuff that normal couples share. His response: Accused of having an alternative motive to my concerns for my mom. He doesn't know my friends dad so he doesn't care. And he doesn't need to hear the details about my funny story.

I have a great group of friends to share with but it's just not the same. I want to share the little parts of my life with my H. He just isn't capable of connecting in a way that is meaningful to me. How can I find ways to feel connected with someone uninterested in connecting, except on his own terms?

[Tattered Heart]

I'm struggling with feeling really alone. We had a huge scare where my H was on the verge of losing his job. For 2 weeks I listened and supported while my H vented, worried, and broke down out of the emotions involved. He began talking about just quitting or working PT or finding a job that makes just minimum wage. When I would mention all our bills and debt and things we like to spend $ on he told me my life was too la ish and we could live without it. As long as we could pay the mortgage and electric we were living large. And now the threat has passed. His boss apologized. And my H is happy with work again.

But I'm left with no one to help me hold up the pieces. I've realized I need to secure my finances for myself so his income is no longer relied upon to pay all the bills. He goes through a job breakdown every 3-4 years. This means I need to find a job that makes about 25k more per year. I'm looking.

I just feel alone though. I could not share my concerns about our finances because it made him feel bad. And then angry at me for being so materialistic.

Then yesterday and this morning I just wanted to share some concerns and happenings going on with my mom and a friend's dad, and a funny/embarrassing story that happened to me. You know, normal stuff that normal couples share. His response: Accused of having an alternative motive to my concerns for my mom. He doesn't know my friends dad so he doesn't care. And he doesn't need to hear the details about my funny story.

I have a great group of friends to share with but it's just not the same. I want to share the little parts of my life with my H. He just isn't capable of connecting in a way that is meaningful to me. How can I find ways to feel connected with someone uninterested in connecting, except on his own terms?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[DaddyBear77]

TH, my heart really goes out to you on this. I can relate on so many levels.

It's corny, but a quote from one of my all time favorite movies comes to mind: "You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not. See, in all our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable is each other."

That's how I felt when I found SWOE and then, via Randi's message boards, bpdfamily.

A therapist once told me that people's capacity to hold on to the emotional support we give them varies, and some people are like buckets with a hole at the bottom - we can pour and pour and pour and maybe for a while they hold onto it, but the bucket always empties out eventually. I know now that for as long as I am with my pwBPD, I'm going to have to be a bucket filler. This made me think about this article we have here.

Another thing I can relate to is the inability of any OTHER relationship to fulfill our need for intimate connection. We can have many different friends, in all different contexts of our life, but for whatever reason, that person who is "the one" is the ONLY one who can provide that kind of intimacy we crave as human beings.

But I guess your ultimate question was, how can you feel connected with someone who isn't interested - and I think the answer is, we just need to feel how we feel. Sometimes, is there a real connection? Sure, I think so, if it wasn't there some of the time we probably wouldn't have started / stayed in our relationship. When it happens, it's real, and we need to appreciate it in the moment. Maybe it happens at times when our pwBPD are feeling better about themselves and things around them. I think the connection we feel at those times is genuine. Other times I think their bucket is empty, and the lack of connection is also genuine. Like so many other aspects of being with a pwBPD, we need to always be aware of how the good balances against the not-so-good, and try and keep ourselves looking at the bigger picture.

Like I said, TH, I really feel for you and I can really relate to your situation. I hope things are feeling a little better today, but remember, you're never alone.

~DB

[Horselover33]

I'm sorry to hear all you are going through.  While you may feel alone, you aren't alone in what you are facing.  I am in a similar situation.  We are in a tough financial situation right now, largely in part to spending he has done.  We had a conversation the other day that we needed to be mindful of money and agreed on a plan forward, only to today him want to spend on unnecessary items.  I remind him of our conversation and what our circumstances are and there is no connection.  So I'm now the bad guy and receiving the silent treatment.  He tells me he doesn't care anymore about anything.  Tells me to do what I want because he doesn't matter.  I dont know what to say or how to be in these situations.  It is very difficult and isolating. 

[Tattered Heart]

Thanks guys.

Every few months or so I go through a new set of grief. I have to get to a new place of radical acceptance. I spent some time in prayer yesterday and feel like God shared some specific areas where I was holding onto bitterness and unforgiveness towards my H. I chose to forgive him and repented for my bad attitude towards my H. I immediately felt much better.

Scripture always helps. I was reminded of these verses. 

Hebrews 12:15 Look after each other so that none of you fails to receive the grace of God. Watch out that no poisonous root of bitterness grows up to trouble you, corrupting many.

Colossians 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

I'm also starting a new women's group tonight. I've been pretty isolated lately as I have been trying to find a new church since the one I had been attending for 5 years moved. On top of the usual stress of life I've also been working through the sense of loss of community that I had at my old church.

It's funny how at times, as you said DaddyBear, that when they are able to have that genuine connection, they are spot on and it really is a real connection. Yesterday I sent my H a text saying I was sorry for being so awful towards him lately (I've been nagging a lot, which I don't usually do). His response was: "I just want you to feel better. I love you. We can do it!"

[Xanadu]

Tattered Heart,

I have not logged in for nearly a month and the day I do, (to air my frustrations regarding an incident with my HwBPD), the first thing I read is your post.

A few months ago he was given some days off at work, due to his really bad attitude. By the time the 3 days were up he was eating humble pie. He was told he would lose his job if it happened again. Well this morning he informed me that he hated his job. That his boss had made a disparaging remark and I feel he is going into the same bad attitude cycle again. I asked him if he thought his boss was just joking, he admitted he might have, but jumped right back to thinking it was a negative slam.

I am fairly new to this site, but I have been researching and reading as much material as I can get my hands on. I first read SWOE, then The Essential Family Guide to BPD and now am reading Loving Someone With BPD. From my understanding, we are, as nonBPD's not supposed to be the therapist to our PwBPD (not formally diagnosed), but what do you do when they will not go for counseling?

I am frustrated, I am in a similar situation with finances. If he quits his job, it would affect our circumstances greatly.

What I really want to do is tell him I think he has BPD, tell him of the signs that I know he has and share with him all of things I have been learning. Would that be so terribly wrong?

[Tattered Heart]

From my understanding, we are, as nonBPD's not supposed to be the therapist to our PwBPD (not formally diagnosed), but what do you do when they will not go for counseling?

I am frustrated, I am in a similar situation with finances. If he quits his job, it would affect our circumstances greatly.

What I really want to do is tell him I think he has BPD, tell him of the signs that I know he has and share with him all of things I have been learning. Would that be so terribly wrong?

This is a great topic. What would it accomplish to tell him you think he has BPD? He is already refusing to get counseling. We have a workshop on this exact topic because so many of us want to tell them what is going on.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=76633.0

One of the hardest part of being the nonBPD in the relationship is that we know what would help them, but no matter how much we know it, we cannot force them to go to T. My H recently discovered BPD on his own out of the blue. He spent a whole couple of days telling me all about BPD and its symptoms and treatment, etc. The whole time I had to pretend I knew nothing about it and I just listened and asked him questions. We talked about counseling and medications. And after all of that information he learned all by himself, he still did not want to get help.

And now that he knows about BPD, we still don't talk about it at all. He does not want me to see him as someone to be fixed. He doesn't want me to pressure him to counseling. He doesn't want me to treat him like he has mental illness. The only thing I will do is when he is especially low is to encourage him to consider DBT. He is more open to that, but my encouragement is gentle, supportive, and it is still his choice.

The only thing I can change is myself and my reactions to him. I'd encourage you to really dig into the workshops and posting more on the boards. One thing that has really helped me quite a bit is helping others on this board come up with new solutions to their own struggles.  

[spacecadet]

Hi Tattered Heart, no great advice to give, just saying hi and have a hug... . 

It's interesting / encouraging what you said about H and you having that good moment. I'm glad it came to this point.

People here who have left behind their SO's and are doing better understandably come down on the side that walking away is best. Others who are working on their r/s's are more inclined to enjoy those authentic moments of connection.

I'm trying to sort out how I feel about this in general. I would rather have a real moment of connection with an SO that happens now and again than daily "i love you's" if they're not really being felt.

I never had children, but I can see where they'd need the frequent validation and also it would spring from the heart. Maybe a BP needs that too I don't know or maybe it would feel too suffocating.

But I don't like the feeling, and I had it often with my ex-H (13 years together) where we went through the motions but real connection was rarely felt (after the first couple years). Maybe once a year we had a "moment."    

And I don't think that's atypical for a long-term r/s. I'd rather a) be alone or b) be with someone who has, say issues but is endeavoring to be who they really are than c) a r/s that is on autopilot without real intimacy even if that means some quarreling. Personally I could not be with an upwBP who has no insight whatsoever about themselves, but you have to give anyone credit for endeavoring to be on the path esp. knowing how much courage it takes.

Doesn't seem like there's a right or wrong way, think it's up to everyone to gravitate toward what they need or prefer.

Anyway TH pardon my babbling, these thoughts flowed from your heartfelt posts.
 

[Radcliff]

Hi TH,

Great to hear that things are going better at H's work!  I know the long term cycles still weigh on you, but I'm so happy for both of you that the immediate crisis has passed.  You deserve a break!

A couple of the things you mentioned seem like they may have a guy/gal aspect to them in addition to any BPD influence.  It took me a long time to learn to sit my butt down on the couch, face my wife, and listen to what she wanted to talk about.  But a few years into the marriage I finally figured out that it was important, and meant a lot to her.  Later, I was at a talk where a psychologist said that women often prefer to open up face-to-face, while men prefer to open up side by side, especially while working (so for me, I like to talk driving in the car, side by side in bed, or working in the yard).  And whoever is the person who wants something is the one who should adopt the other's preferred mode.  Perhaps there is a way to train him that if he wants something, he needs to sit for a few minutes face-to-face and talk with you.  There's also the concept of behavior "shaping".  This is used to get animals to learn tricks, so maybe it could be used on a guy   You give a reward (praise, food, etc.) when they do a behavior that comes anywhere close to what you want, or is the first part of what you want, then the next time they have to get closer to the behavior to get the reward.  I came to realize that sitting on the couch and talking face to face was one of the things you simply did if you had a wife.  The reward I got was a much happier wife.  But I was really slow to figure this out (like, years  and if I eventually did, don't get discouraged -- your H may figure it out with your help, too!

On the materialism thing, you absolutely should not feel bad about this!  Over the years, I consistently find that my wife wants a new couch, to redo a room, etc. long long before I do.  I could be happy living in a shack, as long as it was dry!  But this means that I consistently miss opportunities to make our home nicer, warmer, and happier.  When I finally sign on to whatever improvement my wife wants, I wish I'd done it long before.  I've gotten better about this, but still lag behind.  I can see how your H might feel the money pressure from your desire to improve things or spend money on recreation, etc., and I'm sorry that that takes away from you wanting to make life more enjoyable for you both.  Try not to get discouraged.  Keep trying.  Maybe look for early victories where it might not be as hard to get him on board with an improvement or expenditure.

And good luck with the job hunt!  I hope you find a job you'll enjoy doing and that gives you the security you're looking for

[formflier]

 

Hebrews 12:15 Look after each other so that none of you fails to receive the grace of God. Watch out that no poisonous root of bitterness grows up to trouble you, corrupting many.

Colossians 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
 

Scripture is very grounding.      Good job looking there. 

Also a place to make sure there is little confusion. 

Forgiveness is for you.  Forgiveness is to help bitterness not grow in your heart. 

In many BPDish relationships there is forgiveness... .yet there is no reconciliation. 

Forgiveness and grace only took God and only takes you in this r/s. 

You can offer it all day long but if your pwBPD doesn't receive it... .?

It's all there in scripture.

How did the new women's group go?

FF

[Tattered Heart]

How did the new women's group go?

FF

The group was ok. Met a couple ladies that I think I could make a good connection with. My spidey senses went off with a couple of ladies. Just my personal warning system to not reveal too much with them, but then again, I don't reveal private info to most people. I'm really good at picking up on covert narcissists and I noticed a couple ladies that seemed to be competing for who had the most illness going on. I just tuck that away in the back of my mind and use the reminder as needed.

It was nice to begin getting involved in a new church. I've been 2 months out of my old church and it was getting pretty difficult. Hopefully I'll get the chance to start volunteering more and get involved in some of their outreach programs. After a few months of learning how the church structure works I'll probably see what I would have to do to start leading a new women's group since I've enjoyed hosting these groups so much in the past. I was surprised that in a church of 1100 people there was only 1 group for women.

[formflier]

 
Good... .yeah, that is shocking for that size. 

What happened at last church?  Has that changed the way you approach this church?

Good job on spidey senses.  There are many in church that love to "pray for" people as a way to judge others.  Fortunately... .I think the majority are genuine.

FF

[Tattered Heart]

Good... .yeah, that is shocking for that size.  

What happened at last church?  Has that changed the way you approach this church?

Good job on spidey senses.  There are many in church that love to "pray for" people as a way to judge others.  Fortunately... .I think the majority are genuine.

FF

Couple of things. The main thing is that the vision and theology of the church changed quite a bit. I had been having some concerns about this and had talked with the pastor several times about some of my concerns. (I was on leadership and had a pretty wide berth to disagree openly).

Little did I know that our pastor was transitioning out of his pastor role and giving the direction of the church over to the two new pastors who would take his place, which was fine except in my experiences in serving alongside these new  pastors on leadership for years (before they were pastors) I had seen those theological red flags in their belief system. This explained why I was frustrated with the vision of the church. For the last year these 2 had been choosing the message series and starting to guide the direction towards their own vision.

So beginning of June, someone offered to purchase our church building (which we have been trying to sell for quite awhile) and the announcement was made that with the sale of the building, the new pastors would be taking over once they got to the new location, which was also further away than we wanted to drive. I felt like this would be as good a time as any to transition out.

It's been good and bad leaving. I have missed the community so so much. I can imagine that this is what divorce feels like. Of course I had a group of close friends who have stuck around and some who I didn't know as well who have maintained contact. Others want nothing to do with me. But that's just the way it goes and I understand that.

My H has decided to stop going to church altogether now that he is no longer obligated to serve each week and frequently attacks my faith and beliefs. He claims to be a believer, but I'm pretty sure he isn't, or if he is even capable of believing because of BPD. I don't nag him to go. It's actually kind of nice that he isn't going because we don't fight before church each week like we were before. I'm able to be comfortable in talking with people and getting to know them since he isn't there glowering at me from across the lobby. I don't have to worry with him offending people or starting arguments with other members like he did several times in the past. I'm sad because I worry about his eternal state and I wish that church was an experience that we could have together since it is so important to me, but it just is what it is.

Sorry I got long winded. TMI  I'm just passionate about it.

[formflier]

I am passionate about it as well... .thank you for sharing.  I'm currently a bit torn about our current situation.  The church is big on "biblical counseling" and the one guy (number 2 guy in the church) that we used for marriage counseling... turned out to be an idiot.

However, the church is walking distance, the children's ministry is some of the best I have experienced, I have a great mens small group, good weekly messages... etc etc.

So... I've not joined this church because of the counseling thing.  Something I'm going to need to deal with one way or another.  Putting it off for variety of reasons... .time is coming to deal with it.

I do believe my wife is a believer, although I have no idea how mental illness works into all that.  I pray about it and then trust that it's been figured out.

My wife goes between teaching my kids I'm not a Christian... .to being the perfect Christian wife.  Depends on... you know... .the BPD thing.

Very frustrating...

FF

[Tattered Heart]

I am passionate about it as well... .thank you for sharing.  I'm currently a bit torn about our current situation.  The church is big on "biblical counseling" and the one guy (number 2 guy in the church) that we used for marriage counseling... turned out to be an idiot.

That's always tough. Just because someone is a pastor does not necessarily mean they have a lot of knowledge. One thing I've found over the years is that most churches do not know anything about BPD or how to handle it. Every church probably has a couple of people with BPD who create chaos among other members or may even hound the pastor with phone calls and their needs for special attention, but they are not prepared or equipped to help someone in the areas they need help. Most churches do not have a deliverance ministry of any sort.

Most pastors and church type counselors know how to help someone with anxiety and depression, but there are 0 scriptures on BPD, schizophrenia, and other extreme mental illnesses. (They are there, but not readily recognized unless you are actually looking for it).

[romanova]

One of the hardest part of being the nonBPD in the relationship is that we know what would help them, but no matter how much we know it, we cannot force them to go to T. My H recently discovered BPD on his own out of the blue. He spent a whole couple of days telling me all about BPD and its symptoms and treatment, etc. The whole time I had to pretend I knew nothing about it and I just listened and asked him questions. We talked about counseling and medications. And after all of that information he learned all by himself, he still did not want to get help.

Tattered Heart, I'm feeling for you, I really am. Do not give up hope and don't stop talking to him about BPD. It took me so long to convince my H. When I first suspected something was off, I thought he was bipolar. His sister is diagnosed with it so I thought his mood swings were something similar. When I first told him that, he ignored me, ridiculed me. But one morning when he was feeling quite depressed after a crazy episode the night before, I opened the subject again. I told him that I'm in pain after I watch him go through episodes like that but it must a pure torture to be him because I'm just another person who sees it, but he feels it 100%. He cried in my arms and asked me to help him. The most sincere and helpless I've ever seen him. We made a plan to get him to counseling and other things which never happened. The very next day he was back to being mean.

But I kept watering the seed I planted. Every excuse I found I kept pushing, asking, reminding. So he went. Went to our family doctor to ask for a referral but for his alcohol and drug dependency.
If you've read my introduction, we've been through separation involving cops and courts too. But after we got back together, I never put my ring back on. I told him that when he completes DBT, attends therapy for at least a year, we'll go back to our honeymoon resort and he'll put the ring back on my finger. I did that because he longs to get away without kids and to have me "to himself 24/7 and no interruptions", . It is so important to him that he took the condition and started therapy. It wasn't right away, lots of resisting and fights and accusations of infidelity. And the therapy too is not consistent. He is yet to sign up for group DBT. But I'm holding on strong and keep reminding him that he can make that change and put my ring back on so that others don't see me as a single woman out there. He tries really hard because he thinks every living male in the world wants to be with me. It's weird, funny, ridiculous, but somehow flattering too sometimes.

To sum up, don't give up hope. You know your H better than anyone else and you would know what works for him. It may take time and a little bit of tricks but therapy will benefit both of you greatly. I try not to forget that while my H is emotionally like our toddler , intellectually he still is an adult. Perhaps some moments he has clarity of thoughts and it occurs to him intellectually that he needs to get medical help. I'd like to believe it's true for all pwBPD and that how they try to get themselves out of rut.

Always hopeful... .

[mssalty]

I can relate to feeling alone, and it's been running through my head as I go to hold my SO's hand, and they leave their hand rigid and don't hold on. 

And when I tell a story and their body language and response make it clear they wish I'd shut up. 

And when I say something silly and they half hear me, so they take me seriously, or just act confused. 

And when I turn around in a parking lot and they're already halfway across it before I've locked the door. 

And when I go for a kiss and they brush my lips.   

And when i try to hold them close and they turn rigid. 

And when I accidentally injure myself and they hear me, but don't even bother to look up from their phone to see if I'm okay.   

And when they take a deep and audible breath when I do something I enjoy that makes them upset.   

And when I talk about anything that interests me or happened to me and their response make it clear that if I quizzed them on what i said, they'd fail it.   

I still want my SO.  And so much of me loves them.  And I try to express it. I try to be present.  And more and more, I get very little in return. 

It's a very lonely feeling indeed.