What was real?

[Lostinanother]

The funny thing is now looking back with a little bit of a clearer head I can see how she tried to manipulate me for her own pleasure (?)

For example in one of our last conversations I said that as she has moved on with another guy, I wanted her to tell me to move on too... .She refused and said that I shouldn’t move on. What the heck? She just wanted to keep me hanging... .And when I said I would move on she got angry and said she wished I caught an STD from the new girl... .

Confusing as hell

But it’s been getting easier. It’s not as bad as when we first broke up and I first found out about the other guys. My feelings are always up and down so I don’t know... .

[Lost-love-mind]

And if you start questioning yourself and thinking you want to contact her, remember that whilst this breaks your heart, you have to choose respect and compassion for yourself and believe in a better love somewhere over the horizon. Never look back.

She [insulted[ you [for contacting her] because she wanted to enjoy watching you try to contact her and her controlling it. It's narcissism. That desire in her most likely stems from a lack of self esteem and a desire to get back at a world that for her has mistreated her. Be a better person than her.

Was it really love? That's the question we all struggle with. Every situation is different, but I think for most personality disordered people, a lack of a loving bond in early life, or a bond which was founded upon distrust and hate, fails to teach them what love is. They are so desperate to find love, but they have no idea what it is. 

Elmurr. Again. Great insight.

I edited for my facts of an apology email I sent her after 2 mos.  saying I still cared for her. She responded:
" The only reason care is you're a pathetic loser with no life."
I cried like a baby after reading that.
Amazing that you summarize she was a controlling narcissist.
Yet, she cut me off at breakup and claimed I was the narcissist. Then she went NC and said it was my narcissism was the cause and I was the devil reincarnated.
This continuously drives me to the abyss as I analyze the circumstances of her behavior.

[Elmurr]

It seems a lot of us read other people's experiences on here and genuinely wonder if we were all dating the same girl. The consistencies are incredible.  

Mine called me pathetic for caring. Mine called me a sociopath. She'd even got her sister to believe it and call me it too. Then I was a monster. For what I still don't know.  I contacted the guy at her work that she was sleeping with to tell him about me and to send him the messages she'd sent me, and that made me a psychopath and a monster. .

I spent ages trying to figure out if I was actually  a sociopath. But I have barely any (if any) sociopathic traits, other than being good professionally having started my own business, reasonably clever, and sometimes charming.

I know i had a happy childhood, I am one of three brothers with 3 years between oldest to youngest who were best friends growing up, and my parents are still together now. Though I think we'd all admit there was never much love on display, even though it was there. And as my mum was the only female and my dad was quite absent in that he used to do his own thing, it was always on my mum. Therefore her needs became  the most important thing to me and she would get upset and i felt it was on me to comfort her, and when she got angry it felt like my fault. Much of this, I can see now, is how I stayed with a clearly disfunctional female in the hope that I could make her feel better, like I did my mum. Took me a long time to accept that, but my mum was a big help through recovery for me and she told me that that's what she believed was likely a big contributing factor.

[blueblue12]

Hey Elmurr,
Great post again. It is amazing to reach that point of finding what triggered our nurturing ways of sorts. Like you, I was the enabler, my ten year relationship focused on making sure she was happy at all times, and that made me happy, I was the constant enabler, whether it was work, food, money, travel, etc... .I continuously just worked on making her happy. But it was exhausting!

Apart from the realities of focusing on that on a daily basis, it did little for my life. All my things were put on the back burner, it was all about her, what mood would be she be in today? Had she had any bad experiences with any of her friends today? At work? Man it was hard work. I also noticed that this was an ever evolving area of problems, as this was never going to be fixed, everything you did was forgotten by the next day as a new issue that had to be resolved came up!

After been away for sometime now and thanks to my T for teaching me about BPD, I had no idea, I am now in a much clearer space, I can see how I was stuck in this role, the caretaker which I enjoyed as I felt good for helping her, but it is not good, and it is not a good relationship or a good life. Its one sided, with little support for your needs, I can see that now, after months of NC and working through issues with my T. I could not see that while with her. Now I think it was so wrong.

It sounds like you have worked it all out as well and are very clear about the situation. It’s great. Once more thanks for the postings

[Lostinanother]

Elmurr,

When I threatened to contact the other guy to tell him that my ex was playing us both at the same time, telling me she loved me while being in a LDR with him, she flipped out and threatened me with telling the police, her family, my family and even the University I teach at... .she saw it as a personal attack on her and her life... .

[Lostinanother]

It’s her Birthday in a few days and I am conflicted as to whether I should wish her a happy birthday at least... .

Has anyone ever broke NC to wish their BPDex a happy birthday? I’m thinking it’s not such a hot idea though.

[Elmurr]

I was asking myself the same question this week. It's my exes bday in November.

I would suggest in your case that since she is a serial cheater the simple answer is, no. She deserves nothing from you. Don't waste your life on her.

Why on earth would you wish her happy birthday? The only answer I can think is that you're hoping she'll change her mind and come back to you.

Like I've said before, that's her choice. And if you force it you're more likely to prevent it.

If she's thinking about you at all on her birthday she'll be hoping for a message, and if she gets it she'll have her position of power reinforced.

If she's going to contact you, she will.

The best thing you can do is live your life and try to detach. It hurts. But so does hoping for something you have no control over.

Your life is better without this girl in it. I promise you that that is the truth no matter whether it's her fault or your fault, whether she is insane or sane, by the time you're in such a position and reach this site because of it IT DOES NOT MATTER, you are in too deep. your life is better without her. Too much damage has been done. It doesn't matter why or how you ended up in this position, you are here, and that in itself is enough to say that you must move on. Whether it's simple incompatibility, or one of you just wound the other up, it really is irrelevant, you know too much damage has been done, and to drag it out would be to prolong the inevitable. The inevitable has already arrived. To pretend it hasn't is denial.

Some people may say that that's negative and unconstructive advice. I can tell you that's it's the best advice you can hear if your situation is anything like what  you described in your opening post.

It's blunt, but I'd suggest you forget her birthday.

[Lostinanother]

No, it’s the blunt advice that is always the best.
I hear you.

Cheers again

[Elmurr]

I sincerely wish there was other advice that I could give you without a guilty conscience, but if your situation reflects what you put in your original post, and if your emotions mirror those that I experienced, then I can't. To draw a line is the best advice.

You and her, it isn't right. It isn't how it should be.

It really isn't.

[Lostinanother]

Elmurr,

I know you’re right.

Reflecting on my own emotions; I guess the way I feel is just selfish. Honestly, I feel like I just want validation. 2 years meant something to her. She loved me the same way I loved her. She meant everything she said to me. I was important to her.
I guess it’s selfish that I want this validation because maybe it’s all to my own ego.

The quote from The Shawshank Redemption came to me just now.

Get busy living or get busy dying.

You advice is always spot on Elmurr and I really appreciate the time you spent helping me out.
I can’t get therapy because of where I live.
I can’t really talk to anyone because no one understands.

[Lost-love-mind]

It seems a lot of us read other people's experiences on here and genuinely wonder if we were all dating the same girl. The consistencies are incredible.  

Mine called me pathetic for caring. Mine called me a sociopath.

I spent ages trying to figure out if I was actually  a sociopath. But I have barely any (if any) sociopathic traits, other than being good professionally having started my own business, reasonably clever, and sometimes charming.

Amazing. Why would you call your replacement to warn him?
You know, my exBPD took a new factory labor job 4 weeks into our mere 2 mos. R/s, and if suspect she started an emotional attachment to my replacement. Never can say for sure. She was in a public photo at a political event 2 weeks after the breakup and she was the only one in the pic without a significant other. I'm a POI in the same political organization.

Anyway, I'm considered a conversation narcissist due to my professional training as a lawyer . I got out of that predatory profession and now own my own context Consulting business. I'm creative but I'm not sure Clever. I'm unsure about Charming, since my ex-wife, who is now a friend, and says that I am the "broke POTUS of the town" I live in. so people either love me or hate me. No in between according to her.

[Lostinanother]

I think that I am, to be honest, quite deluded.
Even my ex treated me like  please read               |, and stopped speaking to me days ago, I would be lying if I didn’t say I was waiting for some kind of of communication... .why? I really don’t know. I know the relationship I had with her is completely dead and I know I wouldn’t want her back because in the end I saw that she didn’t love me the way she said she did... .She checked out of the relationship months ago while still pretending to be into me while searching for a replacement and once she had found someone who would give her their undivided attention I was dropped like a hot potatoe. So why the hell am I still waiting for some kind of communication.
I can only think it is because of my ego and wanting some kind of validation.
I am moving on slowly and slowly purging myself and getting back to my old self but still I wait. And still I think about her... .
It’s pathetic and does make me feel like a loser like you said... .
I guess I’m still far from recovery I guess

[Elmurr]

I contacted her colleague because she’d been sleeping with both of us at the same time and she’d sent me awful things involving him, such as how he was just someone she had taken her frustration out on and that he had meant nothing. I also sent him the message she’d sent me after we’d had an argument following sex that read word for word, “it’s a good job you didn’t go down on me last night otherwise you would have tasted D’s ... .” you know the last word, it rhymes with bum. 

She’s so ashamed when her actual behaviour is exposed that she’ll go ballistic. Full attack mode, and thts when words like psycho and monster come out, never Sorry though funnily enough. Like when i spoke to her family. Panic sets in that the real her will be identified and her victim status will evaporate.

Lostinanother, yes your ego is the biggest problem. It’s the same with all of us. If she just showed some sign that she cared or that she was sorry then it would mean the world. But that’s one of the many reasons  why this sort of breakup is so hard: they try as hard as possible, both in their words and their actions, to demonstrate to us that we meant nothing to them and that any previous signs that we did were all lies, hence the title of this thread, “What was real?” 

If she’d told you she’d cared but that she’d had enough because the relationship was dead and that she’s sorry for her part, then you’d be in a much better place. It’s because your ego has been massively battered. It takes ages to repair and you desperately search for a quick fix by hoping for a message from the person that destroyed it and who holds the key to instantly restore it. Unfortunately, she destroyed it intentionally, and she is the most dangerous person to your emotional well-being. Time and good people will restore it eventually.

[Lostinanother]

Today I seriously thought about writing a final F*** You letter. A letter to trigger her nuclear... .An email stating everything that was ___ty about her, how all she did was lie and cheat and manipulate, how her love was as fake as she is and that I am thankful she is gone.

I thought about it for a while but then pushed the idea away. What would it really achieve? It would justify her hate to me and the way she treated me in the end... .

So I didn’t and NC continues... .

[Elmurr]

You made the right choice. Don’t proof her right.

It’s so hard to do because you want to give them a piece of your mind, but they’ll just roll their eyes, feel glad that they have caused you so much anger, and think you’re pathetic. They’ll also walk away with their head even higher and say to her friends / the next guy, “look how nuts he is”.

[Lost-love-mind]

Well. 4 mos. today free from the end.
Yes, giving the exBPD an email with a piece of your mind would be a mistake.
I did less than a week after the breakup.
It solidified the nails in the coffin. She was in NC and waited another 2 weeks to reply when I kept pestering her to pick up my stuff (which never happened).
She was an introvert quiet BPD until her responses " Don't F with me". "you smell like mold and moth balls".

After 2 mos I sent an apology. A nice
My email "I still care for you" email.
Her response: "the only reason you care us because you are a pathetic loser with no life". She emailed my boss that she " never ever" wanted anything to do with me.

I'm conflicted today. Actually researched a sample email to send to ask whether she would consider reuniting a romance. Never.

I have had 2-3 coffee dates with women since the breakup. Can't get past the emptiness I walk away with after. No connection. No love bombing with eye contact. It's an addiction. Need the 'crack' of love.

[once removed]

I thought about it for a while but then pushed the idea away. What would it really achieve?

i suspect that it would also be going against your own values, and that thats why you didnt do it.

the hard challenge before us all is to be more mature in the relationship aftermath than we were during the relationship. it was a mature move not to lash out. its something that years from now, even after the pain is long gone, you will still be proud of.

the urge is about a response to feeling rejected and wanting to reverse those feelings, which is understandable. a lot of us share the fear of rejection and rejection sensitivities as our exes. the key isnt to act on the feelings impulsively. the key is to sit with them, as hard as it is. to learn to be mindful (https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind) and work through them. it will build an inner strength and resilience that will be with you for the rest of your life.

lastly, nothing hurt my own recovery more than telling myself i was wrong to feel the way i was feeling. you loved her, you shared a lot together, and its natural that this hurts a great deal. grieve. grieving doesnt make you a loser. thinking about her also doesnt mean youre far from recovery, and trying to banish your thoughts is likely to make them persist. its when thinking of her doesnt interfere with your normal feelings of well being that youve reached the Freedom stage of recovery. that will take some time and work. put the work in. thats the next stage of recovery and where the real progress is made.

[Lostinanother]

Thank you for the supportive replies. It’s much appreciated. Its thinking about in the past when I notice red flags that I never saw before. Like her turning over her phone so I couldn’t see the screen or her deleting her Facebook account when are relationship was going great and starting it again when we argued... .
looking over the past in flashback almost and noticing these other red flags that kind of made me angry again. And I guess bitter almost. I feel like I wasted my time for 2 years with someone who wasn’t really there... .
and I feel like I’m weak for winging and wining about it. Like I should man up already and get on with my life... .
I guess this she is always going to haunt my mind and my heart and I’ll always wonder where she is and who she is with and if she is happy and if she ever thinks of me... .

[Elmurr]

You won't always think of her, though it will feel like you will at the moment. It's still very fresh. Believe me, you'll get over it. Yes, you'll think of her, she'll always be a part of what happened in your life, but you'll reach a point where when she crosses your mind you get a tinge of sadness, shrug your shoulders and carry on. You cannot hold on to if forever. Your brain can't do it. It will fade, just like every other memory in your life. That much I promise.

I honestly believed I would NEVER get over it, for months. My ex turned my life upside down on 20th March, and I am only now getting back to my old self. 7 months on. Up until about 4 weeks ago I honestly saw almost zero improvement. Were they the sh*ittiest 6 months of my life? Categorically, unequivocally, unquestionably, 100%, without a SHADOW of a doubt, YES! They were truly awful. But, you wake up each day, you carry on, you suffer, and you get through it, you go to bed again, you repeat. The next day, there will be a minute improvement. So small you can't see it. Like ageing. One day you look at a photograph from a couple of years ago and you realise you've aged. One day, you'll look back at your posts on here, and realise you're moving on.

You didn't waste 2 years. As I said before, everything happens for a reason. You must believe that. You will have learnt a huge lesson from this. You will be a better, more caring, more conscientious, more loving person because of it. You will no longer accept abusive relationships. You will stand up for yourself better. Not just in romantic relationships, but in all relationships in life.

You can't see that yet, of course. But in 6 months or a year's time you'll realise how much you learnt from this, and how much better a person you are because of it.

[Lostinanother]

 Again always insightful and supportive advice. Thank you.
I’m feeling better Thanks to the people here. Thank you everyone. You’ve really helped a stranger out and it is appreciated.
I do feel better now but still feel victim of The Long Con... .
I would joking call my ex My Femme Fatale... .how apt that turned out to be  

[Lost-love-mind]

lastly, nothing hurt my own recovery more than telling myself i was wrong to feel the way i was feeling. you loved her, you shared a lot together, and its natural that this hurts a great deal. grieve. grieving doesnt make you a loser. thinking about her also doesnt mean youre far from recovery, and trying to banish your thoughts is likely to make them persist. its when thinking of her doesnt interfere with your normal feelings of well being that youve reached the Freedom stage of recovery. that will take some time and work. put the work in. thats the next stage of recovery and where the real progress is made.

Banishing my thoughts. I'm glad to hear that I shouldn't and can accept where I'm at.
I cry still. Over a short 2 mos. R/S . I'm 4 mos. out and I still ruminate. Most people even in my support group fail to understand. That is why I reconnected with a friend that has a MSW. He seems to understand.

Thank you once removed for the insight. Elmurr thanks for keeping it "real".
Thanks everyone.

[MarkDavid]

Thanks for the advice.
I guess I am very torn because I know that she is poison for me but I do love her and she miscarried my child previously, which she is still really damaged about... .so I feel I owe it to her even though she lies and uses me... .

I feel like a crack addict

Man, I'm new here myself but I have to chime in here; you have to let go of this woman. I can't stand what you described of her. She needs to go. You have to be done with her. There are others on this planet.

[Lostinanother]

Yeah, thanks Mark.
I know that myself.

More than her, I find myself hanging onto her lies.
I really want to contact her again to try and get the truth.
I want to know exactly how many times she cheated.
But I know she will never tell me... .
If I wasn’t obsessed with finding out the lies maybe I would have walked away a long time ago... .

[Lostinanother]

I am really fighting not to break NC today.
I want to message her that I know;
You lied about A
You lied about B
You lied about C
Was it my baby you miscarried or someone else’s?
Why did you use the miscarriage as a weapon to keep me every time I walked away and why’d you drop me like I was hot as soon as someone else came to show you attention?

Why did you lie so much?

[Lostinanother]

With nothing to lose and nothing to win.
Already hated, split and painted black.
Ignored completely.
She is with replacement.
I don’t want her back, honestly, I don’t.

I messaged her a kind email ( completely different from above)explaining I knew all about her cheating and lying but I don’t hate her and I wish she would get therapy so she can try and fix herself.

Even though the message was kind, I know she will go crazy and hate me more but what difference would it make? None to me.

So whether she reads the email or not, it was really therapeutic to write it.
I won’t go quietly into the night.
I don’t expect to hear a reply. But that makes no difference to me, honestly.
I got off my chest what I wanted to let her know.
No point going NC if I had things I needed to say and I didn’t write anything nastily or angrily. It was kind of a friendly but cold message.
I don’t know how I’ll feel later but I’ll keep you all updated.

[PaticAttack]

Lostinanother!

yes, i was also feeling that way, what have i got to loose.  Whelp, I sent a mean text to her while i was drunk, im working the drunk part out, i semi-regret sending it.  Mostly because a part of me wants her back but the other part also wants to burn that effin bridge down.  I sent her am email a few days later all sappy about how i wish her happiness and that i know that im not emotionally secure enough to meet her emotional needs but that i want to forgive and be friends.  Her response was that i need to work on me deep emotions and blocked me on all fronts.  She probably didnt even read that email.  I am black to her and i have a feeling i will remain there forever.  I was starting to do so much better until i snooped at her and my replacements social media, then i snapped!  I will get back up and keep moving forward down my path and hope that i can learn and not make the same mistake in the future.  Keep your head up!  This thread has helped me a ton, mostly that I am not alone in this crazy game!

Cheers!

[thelitewasatrain]

Great post.  Still getting chills.  It is so familiar.  The framework.  The progression.  Everything.  The only notable difference in is the details.  They all will vary from person to person.  But the virus is the same.  I hope you can get to the point of true no contact.  I am struggling for that right now.  And to all who have replied, I see I am in the right place.  I have seen that for over 5 years now.  I just registered and gave an introduction and partial synapses of my story.  You all are great.  It is real people, with real experiences, giving real advice, trying to achieve real change in our lives.  It is amazing.

[thelitewasatrain]

Oh, and I have started to accept something for myself that may help you or others.  It is a bitter truth, but the truth non the less.  It is all one big lie.  Everything.  And every time I ask that question to myself, was it real, I have to remind myself how many times she asked me that after she broke up with me, again.  And I say to myself, if she asked it, I already have the answer.  And unfortunately, the only closure we can ever hope for is for ourselves to stop needing contact with them.  To stop needing them in our lives.  Our closure is within us.  It is us wanting ourselves back.  We will never know the truth, because honestly, I don't think she even knows herself the difference between her lies and reality. 

[Lostinanother]

Patic attack,
Thank you.
A friend once said to me “ I don’t burn bridges. I napalm the whole town.” Sometimes at the end of the relationship, I think about his words. But today wasn’t a napalm day. Lol

Elite,
Thanks too.
I’m glad that so many people people are getting help and support along with me.
I guess what I had was real. But it was a twisted version of some truth.
They did love us and that’s why we could bring out such strong hate in the end. Elmurr said something along those lines.

[once removed]

hey guys,

"damn the torpedoes" is a good album; im not sure its the best strategy for mending a broken heart.

imagine being on the receiving end. members here can tell you what its like receiving these kinds of letters from their ex. theyll tell you that its just a bunch of blame and finger pointing and victimhood. theyll tell you it didnt change their heart, or get them to look at themselves any differently. theyll tell you all that it did was help cement their decision, and caused them to lose even more respect for their ex. and we, collectively, usually applaud them for not responding.

whats done is done and theres no going back, but we dont want to get tripped up continuing the dysfunctional dance going forward. this is a time for strength, resilience, and resolve.