Planning to Cut it Off, Cheating?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I've spoken with friends and family, and extended family and other friends about my girlfriend, and they say she is a trustworthy person. She hasn't been diagnosed BPD but has codependent traits, and a past she says she's very ashamed of. I've also been in a relationship with a dBPD woman in the past and this is much less dramatic. Very naive sort of person, and it almost seems like an act, but I think moreso she doesn't take an active observational role in finding out common knowledge types of things. Everyone describes her this way. When we met she was rooming at an apartment, and it was filthy, I told her they are obviously drug addicts. When she found out they were smoking meth she acted really mad, and she admits she was selfish in wanting to move in because she didn't want to be in that environment.

I'm just wondering... .how did you find out whether the other person was cheating or had cheated? I've asked and she says no, she hasn't, but she could be lying to keep from having to move out faster than we've talked about already. I plan to end things once she's gone, as this relationship triggers a lot of fears and anxiety that I need to work on on my own. I would rather not have been lied to and never find out, I guess it would make it easier to cut it off or be "done" if I knew she had done something behind my back but I haven't found any evidence in 1.5 years... .Even with some of my snooping... .

[disorderedsociety]

I've spoken with friends and family, and extended family and other friends about my girlfriend, and they say she is a trustworthy person. She hasn't been diagnosed BPD but has codependent traits, and a past she says she's very ashamed of. I've also been in a relationship with a dBPD woman in the past and this is much less dramatic. Very naive sort of person, and it almost seems like an act, but I think moreso she doesn't take an active observational role in finding out common knowledge types of things. Everyone describes her this way. When we met she was rooming at an apartment, and it was filthy, I told her they are obviously drug addicts. When she found out they were smoking meth she acted really mad, and she admits she was selfish in wanting to move in because she didn't want to be in that environment.

I'm just wondering... .how did you find out whether the other person was cheating or had cheated? I've asked and she says no, she hasn't, but she could be lying to keep from having to move out faster than we've talked about already. I plan to end things once she's gone, as this relationship triggers a lot of fears and anxiety that I need to work on on my own. I would rather not have been lied to and never find out, I guess it would make it easier to cut it off or be "done" if I knew she had done something behind my back but I haven't found any evidence in 1.5 years... .Even with some of my snooping... .

[vortex of confusion]

I'm just wondering... .how did you find out whether the other person was cheating or had cheated?

Which time? There were times when the ex flat out told me what he had been doing. Then, there were times that I found out what he was doing by snooping.

I've asked and she says no, she hasn't, but she could be lying to keep from having to move out faster than we've talked about already.

Why would you suspect her of cheating?

If you are already planning to end the relationship, why does it matter whether or not she has cheated? If you haven't found any evidence that she has, yet you are still questioning it, does that say anything to you?

I am pointing this out because of my own situation. I reached a point where I stopped wondering whether or not ex was cheating and just treated it as though he was because there was nothing he could say or do that would convince me otherwise. I had zero trust in him at the end. It was to a point where if he said the sky was blue, I was going to go check it. I turned into a paranoid snoop with the ex. I had good reason. He was a sex addict and had a history of inappropriate behavior. Other people would swear that he was trustworthy. Nobody would believe that he did the things that he did. Even now, a year and half after I kicked him out, people will still say, "Oh, he would never do that." I saw his messages to those other women with my own eyes.

[Mutt]

If you are already planning to end the relationship, why does it matter whether or not she has cheated? If you haven't found any evidence that she has, yet you are still questioning it, does that say anything to you?

I’d like to add to what VoC said here. What’s the rush, it sounds like you’re looking for a reason. Are you angry with her?

[disorderedsociety]

I’d like to add to what VoC said here. What’s the rush, it sounds like you’re looking for a reason. Are you angry with her?

Uhhh yeah, I am. We had a conversation, just a friendly one, talking about her finding a place to move to, and I asked her perspective on something. Then she tried to mold the words into such a way that the convo veered toward us staying together. Later I mentioned she needs to find a new place quickly, and I said it somewhat forcefully, because I was angry I felt like she was dragging her feet, as I told her. She went on about how she sent 10 messages today, how the first opportunity fell through because apparently they're selling/bulldozing the house, and that the other lead never called back. Then she told me I was being abusive *for raising my voice and cursing* I did not call her names or anything, I just vented how I felt, and she uses this tactic to try to make me feel bad like, "Earlier we had a great conversation, now you're acting like this! You're hot and cold! You must not like yourself very much, I'm sorry you don't like yourself."

It's messed up because she is extremely passive and claims to be spiritual/at peace when obviously I don't want her here anymore, and haven't, and have mentioned it and then she blames me for not communicating it. Yes, I waited a few months to tell her blatantly, that I wanted her gone. But I've been mentioning space, living apart, etc. for months and she never takes a hint, never takes initiative to change anything, tells me I have to be the one to draw boundaries. Apparently I have to spell it out for her and be extremely specific, outlining exactly what I need or what I want her to do/not do. It's like she can't read body language and just feeds/mirrors what I want instead of understanding the purpose of my request. Almost feels like the response is scripted. She plays no part in it, and I think it's because if something messes up or I feel depressed over a change, she wants it to be all on me. I feel like I'm the only adult in this relationship, even with all her mature-sounding bull%$$# talk about boundaries, growth, etc. that she only started talking about when I mentioned it. Before that it was just Game of Thrones, Anime shows and popcorn. Working her crap job and being a lazy slob. It wasn't until I told her she needed to move out that she even started to make an effort to put away dirty dishes (outside of the bedroom.) Whenever I told her before to dispose of her dishes, she'd either come up with an excuse, or say she was planning on doing it, OR say, "well, you left that glass and that plate there... ." First, I don't leave them sitting for days... .Second, I'm human, I do things similarly to how the people I spend the most time with do things; still come on... .Be an adult, be responsible, don't try to act innocent in all this. I know I have played my part, but at this point I feel like I'd be best off without her. I've learned my lessons I think.

Her ex that she's distantly friends with had told me in an email, "Well it's good you're thinking of her well-being in this scenario, and it's also true that you have to do what's best for you. A shrink I know says "you have to ask for what you need", and if what you need is space, no amount of no-space will fix things.
I've had similar issues before, maybe even now. Things are a process, you know.

That being said, a lot of times I felt like I needed space from her was because I felt constrained. Stuff i'd normally do like put music on and watch tv and have games running all at once I wouldn't do, because she was on the tv or somesuch and so i'd gut all the volume and put my phones on. Stuff like that. And it's not cuz she asked, I just deferred cuz I felt like it was the right thing to do. Problem is, do that enough and it feels like the other person's asking a lot all the time, when really it's in your head.

I'm not arguing against going it alone for awhile, you have a valid concern. I'm just saying to do some thinking about why that feeling exists in the first place. Cuz even if you get space, and then she moves back in at some point, unaddressed stuff will loop, likely to anyhow.

On to the later bit, society's kinda hit-or-miss on encouraging women to be independent, and there's definitely cases where the expected relationship is split in a total control/completely subservient type of dynamic.  I think she has been involved in relationships like that before, but I also think she's aware of how that's stunted her personal capability. So similar concerns have come up in our previous relationship.
Personally I found it really really hard not to step in and tank responsibilities on her end, but I don't think she's intentionally trying to manipulate that quality in people, like some others might. Still ends up being a stressor though."

In other words, yes she dates guys with issues with boundaries, maybe/probably codependency. She does manipulate but it seems to be unconscious and goes with her moods. I've never heard her yell until I started fighting back against her mind games but even that is scary. I've made efforts to draw my boundaries, the issue is that she doesn't seem to pick up on them AT ALL unless I explain it, in full detail, with expectations. I do not want children. I do not want to be with one.

[EdR]

I can't help it, but when I read your story I immediately tried to look at it from her perspective.

And well... .I kinda have sympathy for her.

I can understand that she interpreted this situation as "mixed signals" from your part and thus asks you for clear and well-explained messages. That's what we always desired from our pwBPD, but never got. So why is this so strange on her part?

This might not be the helpful message you expected, but I feel I had to say this. Sorry :-(

[Notwendy]

You don't need a reason, or to make her the wrong one- for you to want to cut things off. You have the right to choose who you want to be in a relationship with and who you want to live with.

Think about why you want a reason, or why it has to be about her- to break this off. Is it because then you will feel better about your decision- if it is justified somehow by her issues or her doing something wrong? In this case, it would be about making yourself feel better- by making this her fault. This makes you the blameless one, the "victim" of her behavior, or whatever the reason. Even if she didn't treat you well or she may have cheated, you still can choose to not live with her.

Honestly- most relationship issues include both people, or, in some cases, two people who are simply incompatible- neither if them is wrong or did something wrong.

If this is your decision, then own it. Make it about your choice- you do not want to live with this person. Yes, it is tough to break off a relationship. It hurts on both ends. There are probably few relationships that are all bad- so there are aspects about her that you do like. However, not everyone is the person for us, and we have the right to make that choice.

However, I think you have to own the choice, and there may be consequences. She may get upset. She may see you as the bad guy here, but you have no control over that. You may also feel badly about hurting her feelings, but if you are done with the relationship, how fair is it to her not be clear to her about that? Maybe you are also uncertain about what to do and want a reason. If this is the case, then spend some time sorting out your own feelings and make the choices you think you need to do for you.

I don't know what the financial agreement with her is, or if she can afford to move out. If she is dependent on you for a place to live, you may consider helping her get a place to stay. You may consider doing something like the security deposit and one month's rent or some other arrangement to help her transition. It may not seem "fair" to you in the short run, but it could help ease the situation for both of you.

If it is your decision, you are the one to take action on it. It seems you are leaving that in her hands, and she is reluctant to do it. Think of ways you can take action on your decision- perhaps both of you move out if you are leasing, or help her to find a place and move- are some ideas.

[disorderedsociety]

You don't need a reason, or to make her the wrong one- for you to want to cut things off. You have the right to choose who you want to be in a relationship with and who you want to live with.

Think about why you want a reason, or why it has to be about her- to break this off. Is it because then you will feel better about your decision- if it is justified somehow by her issues or her doing something wrong? In this case, it would be about making yourself feel better- by making this her fault. This makes you the blameless one, the "victim" of her behavior, or whatever the reason. Even if she didn't treat you well or she may have cheated, you still can choose to not live with her.

Honestly- most relationship issues include both people, or, in some cases, two people who are simply incompatible- neither if them is wrong or did something wrong.

If this is your decision, then own it. Make it about your choice- you do not want to live with this person. Yes, it is tough to break off a relationship. It hurts on both ends. There are probably few relationships that are all bad- so there are aspects about her that you do like. However, not everyone is the person for us, and we have the right to make that choice.

However, I think you have to own the choice, and there may be consequences. She may get upset. She may see you as the bad guy here, but you have no control over that. You may also feel badly about hurting her feelings, but if you are done with the relationship, how fair is it to her not be clear to her about that? Maybe you are also uncertain about what to do and want a reason. If this is the case, then spend some time sorting out your own feelings and make the choices you think you need to do for you.

I don't know what the financial agreement with her is, or if she can afford to move out. If she is dependent on you for a place to live, you may consider helping her get a place to stay. You may consider doing something like the security deposit and one month's rent or some other arrangement to help her transition. It may not seem "fair" to you in the short run, but it could help ease the situation for both of you.

If it is your decision, you are the one to take action on it. It seems you are leaving that in her hands, and she is reluctant to do it. Think of ways you can take action on your decision- perhaps both of you move out if you are leasing, or help her to find a place and move- are some ideas.

Yes, I feel like it's the best thing to do. I've already offered to help her with the deposit and rent. One big thing that doesn't work for me in this relationship is my lack of trust toward her. I hate to say it, but her past with being a sex addict in her teens does hurt my trust a bit. Pretty much because of the character of it, not the actual behavior but the issues that drove it. She claims to be a different person now, but something about her is off-putting to me. I've had dreams where she's cheating with old friends of mine or my co-workers, and although I find that highly unlikely, it still provokes anxiety that literally gives me physical symptoms such as TMJ. She claims I just need to work on my issues, but I've seen therapists and they just kind of suggest more communication, etc., but it doesn't take away that feeling that she's somehow sketchy or doing something behind my back, even though there's no evidence to support it and it seems very unlikely.

I've told her, this is my choice, and she says well it doesn't feel right in my core... .I said what's right for you may not be right for someone else... .I don't wanna just trust her intuition over mine

She had found this forum while doing some research, don't think she knows my username but I asked what she got out of it, she said she could relate to some of it... .I dunno if that means the codependency or the BPD parts, but obv we both have things to work on. But, everyone I've talked to has told me if this relationship is causing that much anxiety it's not worth it. It's been 1.5 years and I am still literally physically anxious about and especially around her.

[vortex of confusion]

I've already offered to help her with the deposit and rent.

If you really want her out, you may need to take a different approach. Be straight forward and tell her exactly when she needs to be out. If you offer to help her and let her keep buying time, then it isn't likely that she will go of her own accord. Look at your unique situation and decide accordingly. If she won't leave, would it be possible for you to leave instead? What do you think would happen if you told her to leave without any consideration as to where she would go or what she would do?

In my situation, the ex and I had been discussing one of us moving out for quite some time. He was showing no signs of doing anything. I looked into trying to leave with the kids and it simply was not financially feasible for me to take 4 kids and find a new place to live. There were a lot of other factors involved. He kept finding reasons NOT to leave. One day, I had enough and told him to leave right then and there. I suspected that he would go to his mom's house and that is exactly what he did. So, you might want to consider whether or not she has another place to go. If you told her to leave tomorrow, where would do you think she would go?

I hate to say it, but her past with being a sex addict in her teens does hurt my trust a bit. Pretty much because of the character of it, not the actual behavior but the issues that drove it. She claims to be a different person now, but something about her is off-putting to me.

Don't ignore the fact that there is something that is off-putting. That is your problem. Even if there is no obvious reason, it is important to listen to it. Relationships don't work very well when there is a lack of trust and one person finds the other to be off putting. I don't think it is fair to either party.

Has she done anything to resolve the issues that drove it? During the first couple of years, the ex only looked at porn and would get upset with me when I would tell him that I wanted to spend time with him and be intimate with him. It hurt to have my partner choose porn and self pleasure over me. I was dismissed with, ":)on't take it so personal" or "What is your problem? It's not like I am cheating on you."

I have spent the better part of the last 6 months in therapy. It doesn't matter if the ex was cheating or not. It doesn't matter if he is a sex addict or not. He was emotionally unavailable and checked out. It seemed like he was continually on a search for something or someone else. He stopped chasing porn and immersed himself in church. He quit church and pursued music. He quit music and pursued other people. There was usually something that he was chasing or immersed in at any given time. Some things are more acceptable than others. The end result is that the other person often times feels ignored or rejected or like there is something that isn't being said.

He was going to take from me as long as I was willing to give. My therapist has shaken her head at me on quite a few occasions.

She claims I just need to work on my issues,

She is right. The thing is that it is quite likely that you working on your issues may have a bad result for her. I am in therapy and am working on my issues. The end result is that I am not letting the ex behave the way he used to. I have become a bit hard nosed because I am no longer going to let him take anything from me that I don't want to give freely. 

She had found this forum while doing some research, don't think she knows my username but I asked what she got out of it, she said she could relate to some of it... .I dunno if that means the codependency or the BPD parts, but obv we both have things to work on.

I think that anybody that has found themselves in a toxic relationship can relate to some of what is found on this site. Break ups are difficult. A lot of people spend a lot of time in relationships that are unhealthy and toxic. Rather than admit that the relationship has imploded, it is easier to blame it on something like BPD.