Jealousy

[toomanyeggshells]

I haven't been on in a while since things were pretty quiet for a number of reasons, but I need some quick advice. 

I'm going to a concert with a girl friend tonight.  UBPDbf knows all about it but has been asking me the same questions over and over for the last 2 weeks since I told him about it - i.e., whose going ("just me and ... .", did you print out the tickets yet ("yep", where are they ("in my pocketbook".  Now comes the problem, he just texted me and asked me to text him back a copy of the ticket    That was about an hour ago and I've ignored it completely to this point.  My first impulse was to text back "f#$* you".  There is no way in hell I feel comfortable doing that.  I'm not his child and he needs to confirm where I'm going.  I feel like my head is going to explode just thinking about it.  And, by the way, since he's known I had the tickets in my possession, he hasn't asked to see them, which I would have done.  I feel like he doesn't have the guts to ask to my face so he texts me about it.

Any suggestions on how to handle this without starting WWIII.  Thanks!

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[pearlsw]

Tattered Heart made a helpful recent post about this kind of topic. I can try to find it, but if not click on her name to see her recent posts. I hear ya, an earlier version of me... .Well, the me in the past before I was in a relationship with these kinda issues... .I wouldn't have to worry at all about this sort of thing. "I'm doing such and such, see ya later." No biggie.  Now I'd take this more careful approach that TH suggests.

I get you not wanting to say anything or just being mad, but... .if the goal is to head off WWIII then today I'd just convince myself the other persona had amnesia and be really nice and tell them the details. Again. And not be sassy about it. For the future I'd put a plan in place as TH has about giving a certain amount of notice ahead of time, not too much, not too little, and offering something nice upon your return. I think she promised to bring him some kind of food back after some time out with friends at a restaurant. She gave him details, but also gave herself some freedom, and a window within which she'd be back home. Ya know? She outlines it beautifully in her post. Here it is: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=315814.0 (It's titled Example of How I Word Things To Go With Friends)

Is your guy jealous? Does he assume you at a concert means drinking? Getting hit on by guys?, etc. I actually dated guys who weren't jealous. Oh, for those days! But with a guy who has these issues... .it's a whole other ball game. Good luck!

[toomanyeggshells]

Oh yea, he's definitely jealous, among the other BPD issues.  I know exactly what he thinks about me going to this concert with my girl friend - that either I'm not really going and its a lie to go out and do something else, or that other people are going and I'm going to be out flirting or something worse, neither of which are true. 

[Enabler]

He doesn't trust himself not to lie, why would he trust you. His lack of trust will lead to paranoia and then making up crazy stuff... .I kinda know this from personal experience. My uBPDw has been lying relentlessly to me recently (and probably through our whole 20yr marriage), I have completely lost trust in her and am now getting increasingly paranoid that something bad is coming my way (if her divorce threats weren't enough).

[pearlsw]

That's hard. The only two guys I was ever involved with that had any noticeable jealousy were the two with BPD traits. The other guys were confident, secure, no stress at all in this regard. And I'm not a jealous type either so what's worse is I just don't get the feeling. But the consequences suck.

The underlying issue is he is afraid that there is someone else out there that is better and you'll figure it out. The worse part is they act like this and... .you just might wish you had met someone else!

But for today... .try to speak to the fear he has. It is not all... .fake. Things can happen to you when you go out alone. People can do bad things to you. That is part of being female. And doing things outside. I saw something on Twitter yesterday about a woman who was punched in the eye for not giving out her phone number. Many of us have been threatened or mistreated in such scenarios, thankfully most often short of that.

But your guy is just extremely sensitive and this is going to send his emotions to an extreme place. Let him know what time the show starts and what your plans are after and then follow them as best you can. If they change significantly let him know. Gosh, is he gonna text/call you all night while you are out too? Sigh. Are you gonna meet up with him after? Are you gonna text/call him at bedtime? If you give an expectation of when he will definitely next hear ya that might help - whether it be tonight or tomorrow. Sorry, I have less experience with this. One incident comes to mind... .me meeting a friend in the city and then feeling like I had to rush home, actually run so that he would not freak out. He was surprisingly calm when I returned - because he had something to distract himself. Oh, that can help! Can you find him or he find himself something to distract himself tonight so he is not obsessing over you so much while you are out? In the future maybe giving him time to plan something with his friends at the same time you are out would help? He needs to be kept busy!

[toomanyeggshells]

But for today... .try to speak to the fear he has.

This sentence from your post, pearlsw, is how I think I'm going to handle it and its a perfect reminder for me to try to think past the craziness/jealousy/whatever else and try to calm him. However, what I absolutely will not do is start a precedent that whenever I go out, I have to prove where I'm going. This is slippery slope with a jealous person.  Give in and then keep giving in more every time. 

Since I moved back in with him (which is a story for a different day), I've been trying to keep in mind the issues that swirl around in his head and trying to keep my side of the street clean, as they say here.  I'm not so sure though that texting him a picture of my concert ticket to prove where I'm going is the right thing to do. That being said, I may just bite the bullet and do it.  I have to think about it for a few more hours before I do anything in response. 

[Tattered Heart]

This sentence from your post, pearlsw, is how I think I'm going to handle it and its a perfect reminder for me to try to think past the craziness/jealousy/whatever else and try to calm him. However, what I absolutely will not do is start a precedent that whenever I go out, I have to prove where I'm going. This is slippery slope with a jealous person.  Give in and then keep giving in more every time. 

I would agree that having to prove where you are would not be a good thing to allow. That only leads to having to prove things more and more. Right now you may be at a slight disadvantage. He is already worked up. The delay in responding may lead him to think that you're covering something. None of which is your fault or anything you've done wrong. But that means he is now completely in emotional mind, until he can calm himself.

For me the best thing to do when he is like that is to validate like crazy. "I know it can be hard to trust at times. It seems like you're having difficulty with that right now. That must be scary. Even though I'm going to the concert tonight I can't wait to see you when I get home."

[toomanyeggshells]

I've certainly tried validating over the years but he just doesn't want to hear anything I have to say in these situations, no matter what words I use.  Any how, I did text him a picture of the ticket and said this "There you go.  I hope it makes you feel better because it makes me feel sick to my stomach.  I'm not going to speak to you at lunchtime.  I'll call you sometime later."  His response was "no it doesn't." 

I know that I shouldn't have said that I felt sick to my stomach but I really felt I had to let him know I was sending him the picture of my ticket almost under duress and the thought of me giving in to his jealousy was making me feel sick.

Well, the situation is over for now.  I'll call him to touch base before I leave for the concert because he'll really lose it if he doesn't hear from me but the last thing I feel like doing is speaking to him. 

[Notwendy]

Hi Eggshells- I know the feeling. This was more frequent earlier on in my marriage. Then, when I had children, my H decided to not help watch them if I wanted to do anything, or he'd agree to do it and back out at the last minute. I hardly went anywhere and if I did, it was with the kids.

Underlying this, I suspect was a fear I would meet someone else. Not so easy to have a romantic affair with the kids, right? (not that I had plans or wishes to do this, but I think it eased his fears if I - stayed home, or took the kids with me.)

As the kids got older, I found a little more freedom to do things, but I was afraid to by then- for the consequences of upsetting him. I was isolated and unhappy. The MC ordered me to go to 12 step meetings during the evenings. My H hated this but knew he couldn't argue about that as it was part of our MC. ( a wise MC gave me the label " co-dependency" and then I had to do what she said to take care of the problem- which was 12 steps, self care, and to build up my own self worth and interests.

Oh the questions- if I was a few minutes late, did I meet anyone --- you have heard them. His excuse if I got busy and didn't call right away was - what if something happened to me? Really- in a church meeting hall with a whole group of people? But remember- if feelings are facts, then facts don't really help.

I know how you feel. One time I finally got the nerve to go to a school reunion. My H could not go. It was families- so spouses and children were there. I went with family members. It was tough for my H. He wanted the phone numbers of all the friends I knew that were going. I was horrified- what would he do with them- call up old friends who I haven't seen in years to check on me? What an invasion of their privacy, their families- he didn't even know them. I told him no, I am going with family members and he has their numbers, he can call them if he wants to check up on me. As to avoiding WWIII, I don't know as I came home to WWIII- accusations that I ignored his calls ( there were none on my phone) and that he had no idea if something happened to me ( but he didn't call the family members I was with ).

I understand the reason for validating the feelings, but for me, the solution has been to not stop doing things just because I fear his reaction. Over time, he has also gotten used to it. I still have to be careful. Once I decided to not go to a 12 step meeting because I wanted to stay home and do something. His response was " That's great- I like it when you don't go". He feels secure when I am not doing things, but honestly that was not a response that showed concern for my well being. It isn't good for me to be co-dependent and it isn't good for him or us- so I made a note of that- I have to take care of the issues that I bring into this relationship.

I think it is important for us to spend time together, but also to have friends and interests. I don't do things often, I am mostly home, but being isolated because he was more comfortable was not good for either of us. Mostly, I have to just feel secure with my own behavior. I have not cheated or lied to him about where I have been. That's about the best I think I can do- uphold my own values, have compassion but not let my own fears about the reactions lead to me isolating myself.

[toomanyeggshells]

Hi Notwendy!  Your experiences sound alot like mine.  I'm determined not to give in to his jealousy and fears of abandonment and live a life that also makes me happy, although we both want very different things most of the time.  I'm the kind of person that needs some space.  I have interests and some friends I like to see every now and then.  UBPDbf just wants me by his side 24/7 and the vast majority of the time only wants to do things that I am part of.  I'm trying to keep things calm and steady because I know what sets him off, but I'm not willing to be stuck in a closet because he can't stand the thought me out and about in the world without him.  I can say he's trying to be less "crazy".  A year ago going out with my girlfriend to a concert would make him rage like a lunatic, so I guess things are better.  The whole jealousy thing just really irks me. 

[Notwendy]

Keep on being you! I am a homebody in general, but I do need my space and like to see friends. My H has hobbies and friends too, but they don't include me. We used to have friends as a couple but now we don't. This is mostly due to my own isolating myself from connections for so long.

When the babies were born, he kept up his hobbies, and I had the kids. He wouldn't watch them for me to do things. He was the main wage earner and decided the house and kids were my job. I didn't know what was going on with my marriage. I eventually discovered that my mother's behavior was BPD and started to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

It isolated me, but I am so glad that I raised the kids - mostly just me, as H didn't have an interest in that when they were little. He does now and has a good relationship with them. From my own background, I would not have wanted them to be raised by someone with moodiness like that. I know that my father had to work, but I was able to cut back on my job and raise them. I am grateful for that.

My mother is one end of the spectrum ( severe) , and I think my H has traits but is not like her at all- so I don't think he would fit all the criteria. But I had enough co-dependency traits from my own FOO to match with someone who also had similar traits. The jealousy thing was a surprise as he didn't admit to it. I think the leaving me with the kids 24/7 was driven by that. The issues we have in our marriage are entirely between the two of us ( the most intimate relationship). He is thankfully good to our kids.

He was usually able to talk me out of doing things. I recall early on a friend having concert tickets and he talked me out of it. When the kids came along, he didn't have to. If I wanted to do anything I had to find a sitter and so I didn't usually make the effort. The jealousy came out in irrational ways. Once he went into a rage when seeing a picture of a crush in a school yearbook- it made no sense- how could I be "cheating" with someone I had not seen in years and knew before I met him- yet he was furious and acted like I did. Another time it was over meeting ( together) with an old friend from childhood( who I never dated) and his wife and kids. None of this ever made sense to me. 

The more I stood my ground and continued to do things, the better it got. Maybe with each time, he has learned that - I did not cheat, I did not meet someone. I was where I said I was, and we are still married. Isolating myself only appeased the fears in the moment, but it didn't help him to get past them.

Enjoy your concert. !