Decision Stage

[LameLemer]

Hello All,
This is my first post.

I've been lurking on the boards on and off for a few months since learning from my wife's psychiatrist (at the time) that BPD could explain some of the behaviors she exhibits. Interestingly enough, I went to that appointment for her because she decided at the last minute that she wouldn't go. She had been throwing a tantrum from a budget argument we had the day before, and when she's in that tantrum mood she just can't keep commitments or do anything even when they're for her benefit.

I just finished reading the Stop Walking on Eggshells book and now I'm in the decision stage.

Just a brief background on where we were and where we are now:

We married in July of 2016. Our courtship started a year before that and was wonderful. She was charming, vivacious, kind and considerate. Her mother was crazy (after learning about BPD I'm pretty sure that her mother has it too), but my wife seemed eager to get away from those behaviors and to start a new life. There were what I would now consider red flags, but at the time I thought I was being a supportive boyfriend and fiance with a reasonably balanced adult.

Shortly after our marriage there were additional red flags--her taking my requests for her to help with dishes and clean up after herself as a personal attack against her and that she was a terrible wife. Depression that kept her from work. Physical symptoms that tests could not identify (probably psychosomatic). Spending sprees. Begging for a dog, then a cat, then a hamster when I wouldn't relent on the former two. I finally gave in to the hamster, hoping it would help.

That wore off, and after a few months she began begging for a cat. I resisted but eventually gave in. That wore off, and after a few months she was convinced she needed a dog as an Emotional Support Animal. By this point she was awake all night binging Netflix and eating ice cream, sleeping during the day and skipping university classes and assignments, leaving dirty dishes and trash around her "nest" on the couch, and spending money regardless of our budget limitations because we could "put it on the credit card and pay it back next paycheck." We got the dog. That wore off.

I started my marriage with a $5000 emergency fund, a couple thousand in my checking, and no debt whatsoever. The emergency fund is now depleted and the credit card has been maxed at around $7500 since August. We've even been charged overages a few times due to some of the spending.

It was in August after a particularly bad rage spending spree, suicide threat, and near-physical altercation that I took control of the finances (warned her two times previously) and started meeting with a therapist for myself. It was around this time that I realized I was the next "pet" or the next "thing" that was helping her for a little bit (courtship), but that eventually wore off because it was an external event that couldn't treat a deeper inner lacking.

We were able to start couples counseling, but we still go through these cycles where there's a lull--and it feels so great. Sure, she'll just barely be doing the bare minimum of house work (cleaning up after herself and washing her own dishes)--but at least it's not hell because we're not arguing.

But I'm questioning if this is what I want--a sometimes mediocre marriage with no reciprocity where I feel like my needs and wants are subservient to hers. We had another big blowout over the budget on Friday--I tried to tell her I was feeling overwhelmed and flooded (because yet again she wanted to spend money we didn't have in the budget) and asked if we could pick up the conversation within the next 24 hours (a strategy we both learned about in counseling last Tuesday, and a strategy I had tried instinctively early in our marriage). She pressed the issue, not letting me get away. Instead of just walking away like I should have, I stayed and got triggered. We argued for two hours--she was the one setting the pace. At one point she criticized me for feeling tired and exhausted all the time (I took a second job to pay off the debt) and said she didn't understand how I could be so tired and that it was ridiculous that I would get flooded because, in her words, I hadn't had such a terrible childhood like she had. In other words, I didn't have a right to my feelings because she had it so much worse--so all of her behaviors to self-soothe were justified (even if they're unhealthy), but my desire to take a break to avoid getting angry and defensive was not.

I guess overall I just don't have hope and I keep wondering why I'm sticking through with this. A part of me feels bad because she recently cut off communication with her parents in an attempt to keep her mother's triggering influence out of her life. She has a few friends, but not really. She couldn't finish her senior year (was supposed to be this Fall, but we moved back to our home state after a disastrous and failing semester). If I break things off she really has few places to go. My family wonders why I'm sticking with this, and they tell me that I've changed for the worse--and I have. I feel like my ambition is gone. I'm mostly coasting at work. And my plans to finish school have gone out the window because how can I afford $10,000 tuition with $7000 on the credit card? I've started noticing physical symptoms (recently diagnosed with Plaque Psoriasis) instigated from excessive stress. I've even had thoughts of wishing I were dead because that would be a blessed release from facing the emotional storm of my BPDw.

She tells me she loves me all the time (when I haven't pointed to our budgeting app and explained that we can't afford something), and she expects me to tell her I love her back. But I haven't felt that way about her for a while. At this point she's someone I'm living with--not someone who makes me want to live. I'm trying to be able to say that I did everything I could for the relationship.

I'm realizing that whatever I do will not be enough. And it sucks. This is not the marriage I thought I was getting. There have been some good and fun times, but I don't know that they justify how bad I feel about life in general. I just feel stuck.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey LL, Welcome!  You are way ahead of many of us here in the sense that you know at an early stage of your marriage that your W suffers from BPD.  Others, like me, were in the dark for years.  Until you determine the right course for you, I would strongly suggest taking all precautions necessary to prevent a pregnancy.  If you elect to leave, and I'm not saying that you should, it will be much less complicated without children in the picture.  I should know after a 16-year marriage to a pwBPD with two children.

LuckyJim

[LameLemer]

Hey LL, Welcome!  You are way ahead of many of us here in the sense that you know at an early stage of your marriage that your W suffers from BPD.  Others, like me, were in the dark for years.  Until you determine the right course for you, I would strongly suggest taking all precautions necessary to prevent a pregnancy.  If you elect to leave, and I'm not saying that you should, it will be much less complicated without children in the picture.  I should know after a 16-year marriage to a pwBPD with two children.

LuckyJim

Hey LJ, thank you for the welcome and thank you for being on these boards. I feel a kinship to everybody on these boards, including you, because I've glimpsed just a little bit of their experiences in their posts and the replies they leave for others. It all validates and gives me strength to push forward and to make sure I'm taking care of myself--something I've only recently realized I haven't been doing very well.

And thanks for the advice! The pregnancy things is one of those red flags I've been dealing with. On and off for the past year, she's brought up really wanting to have children--this despite our agreement during courtship that we would wait several years until we were finished with school, despite our precarious financial situation, and despite her depressive cycles that have made it nearly impossible for her to function normally at times. It feels like another one of those bids for a pet--something she's convinced will make everything better, but when it doesn't then I'll be left to manage it on my own or with very little help. I've talked with her many time about how bringing a child into the relationship at present would not be fair to the child or to either of us. She gives verbal confirmation that she agrees, but is then usually making overtures toward having children again within 5-7 days. She also came off the pill about a month ago.

Realizing that my uBPDw just doesn't logically process things the same way I do, I've been very careful about using protection correctly. But that's not as much of a problem as I find myself not wanting to be physically intimate as much anymore.

-LL

[Ambush]

Hey LL this is my first time checking out this site  I have been with my BPD for 17 years now and it has been very hard but I am not willing to walk away  Hopefully this site will be of help to both of us and many more

[LameLemer]

Hey Ambush! I'm finding that most of the relief I have felt has been when I've opened up about these experiences with family and friends, but there's also the unmistakable realization that they are still removed from the BPD situation and aren't directly impacted by it. Browsing this message board has already augmented that feeling of relief that I'm not crazy, that help can come, and that I don't need to bear this burden alone.

Thanks for taking a moment to comment. Best of luck to you in your journey as well.

[LameLemer]

Well I made a decision--not the big one, but still not insignificant--I packed a couple of bags last night and now I'm staying with a family member.

She was laying the FOG on pretty thickly about my suggestion that we have some space, even while claiming that I was abusive (with regards to the finances), unsupportive, unkind, and uncompassionate. The after-effects of our earlier arguments over the weekend stuck with me and helped me to see that part of the futility in our discussions is that she does not view my feelings as equal to or as valid as her own.

She sent me a text within an hour of leaving, trying to guilt-trip me but I didn't respond. Had a restless night, but woke up this morning with this realization:

My uBPDw may follow the pattern typical in the disorder, namely that of trying and make me feel her emotions for her and to operate under the "silent agreement" that her needs and views are always, always more important and more "right" than mine. I have unwittingly played by those rules for too long. But I have also been inadvertently shifting responsibility for my feelings on her by suffering through this marriage the way that I have. Waiting for her to change, expecting her to come to some reasonable compromise with me on finances, trying to fix her, etc. I realized that putting distance between us is probably the only thing at this point I could do to act and take responsibility for my feelings.

I have felt belittled (called me names in past arguments), invalidated (told me my feelings were ridiculous and/or worked to make me think my feelings were wrong), and I have experienced physical symptoms from the stress related to the relationship. Why wouldn't I distance myself from that?

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, LL, Taking a timeout can be a healthy, positive thing for all, in my view.  Sometimes it's hard to think clearly in the throes of a BPD r/s.  I admire your courage in taking this step.  Suggest you prepare for F-O-G and decline to participate in any drama.  Remember, you're in the driver's seat when it comes to your life, so I suggest you try to figure out the right path for you, after taking her needs into consideration.  Only you know your own gut feelings.

LJ

[LameLemer]

Well, my uBPDw showed up to our scheduled couples counseling session last night. I had expressed interest in still going before I left on Monday night. But unlike past times, I restrained myself "coming to her rescue" to get her to go. The meeting was in the calendar and so I left it at my initial invitation and waited to see if she would take steps to figure out where the office was, etc. She texted me the address 30 minutes before the meeting, asking if it was correct and she showed up on time.

Mixed feelings on the session. The counselor focuses on techniques from the Gottman Institute. The impression I get is that the strategies and techniques work well if you have two reasonably adjusted adults working on things, or if you have a counselor there to mediate--but we don't really have two well-adjusted adults at this point. Apparently my s/o was never really balanced to begin with, and whatever balance I had myself at the beginning of the marriage has been supplanted with resentment, guilt, anger, frustration, and mistrust. So she breaks down a few times in the session and the counselor looks very concerned for her. I'm sitting there with a scowl on my face because if I'm not holding onto a little bit of anger I'm worried that I'll start feeling guilty--and feeling guilty in the past has perpetuated the cycle of compromises against my values and feelings to try and make my uBPDw feel better, to reassure her, etc.

The session focused on "processing" the fights from over the weekend by letting each person share their feelings, realities about the fight, triggers, responsibility, and constructive plans to avoid a similar incident in the future. Her feelings, realities, and triggers were no surprise to me at this point. I just found myself having the hardest time validating her reality because the fight started with the budget. And that's not really debatable. You either have the money to spend, or you don't. You either have an emergency that requires dipping into the emergency fund, or you don't. And buying Christmas sweaters for the pets may be an emergency in her mind because it will temporarily fill the black hole in her heart and the loneliness she feels after having cut off communication with her family and choosing not to do anything with them this holiday season, but facts don't care about feelings. And no matter how soon we may be able to "pay it back," when we have a negative net worth we can't just keep using the credit card, or our emergency fund, as a revolving line of credit to get something she thinks will solve all of her problems but which really doesn't (from past experiences and a maxed credit card). I really think we should be paying only for bills and groceries and using the rest of our income to pay off the credit card. Instead I've compromised that value again and again by letting her get things for the pets, for the house, "for the family." And then when I point at the lack of money in the budget I'm "controlling, unreasonable," and I "never compromise."

In spite of everything, I do feel guilty. I am doubting my decision to get space. I feel like an uncaring person. I feel worried for her well-being. I feel terrible that she's hurting and that, struggling with loneliness and lack of self her whole life, she really will be alone this Thanksgiving. Like in past times, I feel like maybe I should apologize and seek reconciliation, to reassure her of her value and worth because she has no one else (or she feels like she has no one else). She even said at one point in the counseling session that I'm all she has left.

I also recognize now that I have exhibited and still am exhibiting some codependent behaviors, and that they have been laying the groundwork for this situation from the beginning of our marriage and courtship. And I know that guilt is not a good enough reason to go back. It's just taking all the restraint I have not to just give in and try to make her feel better.

But what else can I do? Giving into that guilt has only ever led to an increase in the magnitude and frequency of our arguments and blowouts because I grow more angry, exhausted, and resentful. Guilt has made me a mere husk of the man I used to be.

[Lucky Jim]

I am doubting my decision to get space. I feel like an uncaring person. I feel worried for her well-being. I feel terrible that she's hurting and that, struggling with loneliness and lack of self her whole life, she really will be alone this Thanksgiving. Like in past times, I feel like maybe I should apologize and seek reconciliation, to reassure her of her value and worth because she has no one else (or she feels like she has no one else). She even said at one point in the counseling session that I'm all she has left.

Hey LL, It's normal to have second thoughts.  No, you're not an uncaring person.  At the end of the day, you're not responsible for the well-being of another adult.  Empathy is one thing; but rescuing and care-taking is another.  I would suggest that "past times" are a poor model for moving forward.  Suggest you be careful about guilt, which is sort of like adding a rock to your backpack.  Is it really your rock to carry?

LJ

[Enabler]

The impression I get is that the strategies and techniques work well if you have two reasonably adjusted adults working on things, or if you have a counselor there to mediate--but we don't really have two well-adjusted adults at this point.

Bang on here, always keep this in mind. Couples counselling is aimed at 2 people who share the same reality and sub-set of facts. If your wife is suffering from BPD firstly her perception of facts is likely to be warped by her feelings. If she feels she ought to have more money and enough money to buy Christmas jumpers for the pets then she has... .and no amount of showing her irrefutable evidence will change that. Seems like you have your eyes wide open here LL.

[LameLemer]

I went back home on 11/24 after an extended discussion with my wife. I went home to talk with her the day before because she was "sad and scared." The apartment was immaculate that day--surprising to me because normally it's only immaculate if I put in concerted effort to make it so, and I hadn't been there for 5 days. She had made cookies (again a surprise because normally when she wants cookies or brownies she begs me to make them for her so she deosn't have to leave the couch). We agreed (again) to stick to the budget. We agreed (again) to work on chores together and to try a chore chart with monetary rewards attached (IE: you get money for whatever you want to do; taking out the trash =$1, etc). She agreed (again) to contact the psychologist who specializes in BPD to see whether or not that's a valid diagnosis and, if so, to start DBT treatment--if not, to seek other diagnosis and treatment. None of that happened (again). I am now regretting (again) the decision to go back.

On the way to couples counseling last night she seemed restless about "having to go to counseling." I asked her if she wanted to stop counseling and her response was, "I'll go as long as you think we need it." It just felt very much like her sole motivation for going was to placate me. And the session itself felt stale. She had no input for the counselor, nothing she wanted to bring up, always deferring to me. She's not invested in it outside of being able to use it as a bargaining chip--"I went to counseling with you, so... ."

Ironically, we had an unhealthy argument about finances on the way back home from the counselor. She complained that I was making no plans to finish school (and she wants me to finish school so we can start having children so she doesn't feel as bad when she sees her friends on social media getting pregnant and having kids). I explained that while I could probably take a night class next semester, I did not feel like I could reasonable do full-time school and keep my full-time job and that the priorities we were deciding were important by the expenditure of our money told me that it was more important to keep my full-time job to pay for rent, bills, and the living quality that we were choosing by our spending.

She asked me if I blamed her for our financial situation, and I finally told her how I honestly felt. I said yes. I said that the habit of spending more than we had has resulted us in our situation and that our continued habit of spending, spending, spending is making me feel like that's more important to our family than my schooling. I gave examples of how much I had been willing to compromise on spending when we have had money to spend but that we could not keep spending all of our money every paycheck and expect me to feel like my schooling is really a priority. She accused me of being mean and wanted an apology. I said I understood that she felt I was being mean, but reiterated that I had a right to my feelings about the finances and I did not feel sorry and would not apologize. I'm starting to understand the value of not feeling guilty for my feelings. In a non-toxic relationship, two people should be able to validate each other's feelings and work toward a compromise or common goal without lashing out. That's not happening here.

I went to bed at my normal time (10:30) only to be woken up at 11:15 as she got ready for bed as loudly and angrily as she could (turning on the bedroom light when she normally keeps it off if I'm already in bed, throwing herself into the bed to shake it, tearing the covers toward her, shoving her back up against mine to push me aside and growling at me to "Move!" even though I was already scrunched off on the edge of the bed). I told her she was acting immature and moved to the hide-a-bed in the couch for the rest of the night. She's done things like this before whenever I've deigned to share my feelings and not apologize for them.

I just don't see how there can be any positive conflict and growth in my marriage if every time I express my feelings and needs, I'm accused of being mean and then get on the receiving end of a petty, childish tantrum. She resents being treated like child on finances, yet I have to treat her that way or endure our financial situation forever.

And because of that, whenever she brings up having children I just feel empty inside because I don't want to have to be the parent of my children and of my spouse at the same time.

[Enabler]

And because of that, whenever she brings up having children I just feel empty inside because I don't want to have to be the parent of my children and of my spouse at the same time.

Very wise. This is inevitable without treatment and very sad to see your children emotionally leapfrog your wife. I'm at the stage where I feel like I have 2 children in the room throwing tantrums at the same time, it just so happens that one of them is 38yrs old and one is 9yrs.

[LameLemer]

Very wise. This is inevitable without treatment and very sad to see your children emotionally leapfrog your wife. I'm at the stage where I feel like I have 2 children in the room throwing tantrums at the same time, it just so happens that one of them is 38yrs old and one is 9yrs.

I'm sorry to hear that, Enabler. Reading others' experiences about this, which so closely mirror what you said, just cuts right to my heart. Earlier in my marriage I had the thought that I could make it through things if I were stronger. I'm starting to think that if I were truly strong, I'd have already removed myself from my marriage.


Last night, we stone-walled each other for a couple of hours before she demanded to know if I was sorry yet for blaming our finances on her spending habits. I reiterated that I wasn't. Then she made a good show about apologizing for some external shopping thing and committed to working on the budget. We've had versions of the conversation so many times in the past year. I know what to expect at this point--we'll make a budget, allocate funds and stick to it for a few days. But then she'll find something that we absolutely need that we hadn't budgeted for. So we'll shift unspent dollars to get it. And then that happens several more times until we have spent all of our money. But then there will be something else that we "REALLY" need to get because it's "REALLY" important to her or to our family. And I'm unkind and mean for pointing out that we already spent our money and cannot spend more until I get my paycheck. And then we have another circular argument. Wash, rinse, repeat. Seeing this in front of me, I simply said I'd remain cautiously optimistic.

Then we had a strange interlude where she brought in a stray cat from outside because it was starting to get cold. I pointed out that our apartment contract did not allow us to take in strays or to have more than 2 pets (we already have 2 pets) so we should offer it up to friends or give it to a shelter no later than Saturday. She said, "It's so sweet and it chose me. Let's talk about it." And then she says I'm mean and unkind and unfeeling for reiterating our contractual obligations. I also add that I simply don't want another animal.

Then later she's sobbing and again says I'm unkind and unfeeling as I'm trying to get ready for bed so I can perform at work the next day. I tell her I understand why she feels that way, but I don't apologize for what I've said. I tell her we can talk about it tomorrow but she tries to guilt me into talking right then because "our relationship is more important than your sleep." I tell her I don't want to talk right then because I'm exhausted and it wouldn't be very effective for use to discuss such heavy topics in that state anyway.

But I couldn't bring myself to validate her concern and reassure her that I wanted to work on the relationship any more.

I just think I'm past the point of improving the relationship. The skills that I've read about in the Stop Walking on Eggshells book, the experiences I read about in these message boards, and my own experiences with my uBPDw--I just can't do them. It's too little, too late. I find myself past the point of being able to validate my wife's feelings now, and actually mean it. I did so much emotional caretaking early in our marriage and so much rescuing that I find myself detaching completely. I understand how scary the BPD's world is, but last night I think I good and truly lost hope that she will change her behaviors in any meaningful way to support the relationship. I lost hope that I can make the marriage work through my efforts.

I've tried flight, and now I've gone into an ultra-fight mode where I just can no longer empathize with her emotions, because if I empathize even a little bit I'll be swept away into emotional caretaking and we'll repeat the cycle again and again and again.

I think that divorce is on the horizon.

[Enabler]

I'm sorry to hear that buddy. Caretaking is actually pretty dangerous as I've found out. You get called controlling or even worse coercive control. Obviously one of the tick boxes for that is controlling finances etc. My W couldn't understand that 20m out of work has a huge financial hangover which would take years to recover from. She felt that I was unfairly financially constraining her and she felt that she didn't spend much money... .because she didn't buy Gucci handbags and belong to an expensive gym... .she couldn't see past the fact that I bought in a finite amount of money and that was being spent every month and we had a mortgage principle to pay down. One of her friends once came up to me at a party and said "oh, one thing, uBPDw does not spend too much money on clothes" to which I replied "how much does she spend on clothes?" ... ."oh... .I don't know". Well that said it all for me as friends had been validating the invalid, because that's what they do!

My W now feels she has to get a divorce to escape the abuse she has received fro. Me... .abuse that asked her to take joint responsibility for our families financial responsibilities... .the irony is that she now has to take full responsibility for the very thing she has avoided doing for the last 16yrs of our married claiming "she doesn't understand finances".

[LameLemer]

I'm sorry to hear that buddy. Caretaking is actually pretty dangerous as I've found out. You get called controlling or even worse coercive control. Obviously one of the tick boxes for that is controlling finances etc. My W couldn't understand that 20m out of work has a huge financial hangover which would take years to recover from. She felt that I was unfairly financially constraining her and she felt that she didn't spend much money... .because she didn't buy Gucci handbags and belong to an expensive gym... .she couldn't see past the fact that I bought in a finite amount of money and that was being spent every month and we had a mortgage principle to pay down. One of her friends once came up to me at a party and said "oh, one thing, uBPDw does not spend too much money on clothes" to which I replied "how much does she spend on clothes?" ... ."oh... .I don't know". Well that said it all for me as friends had been validating the invalid, because that's what they do!

My W now feels she has to get a divorce to escape the abuse she has received fro. Me... .abuse that asked her to take joint responsibility for our families financial responsibilities... .the irony is that she now has to take full responsibility for the very thing she has avoided doing for the last 16yrs of our married claiming "she doesn't understand finances".

THIS! So much this! Oh man, sometimes when I review posts or replies from other posters like yourself, I feel like I'm in that scene in Interstellar where Matthew McConaughey is looking at all these different moments in his life. I feel like I'm right there, only I can also see alternate present and future moments, and I see exactly how my marriage has been the same or could be in the future.

Mine wife called me abusive because the couples counselor mentioned controlling finances is an abusive behavior. Damned by her if I do, damned by bankruptcy if I don't.

And now for finally refusing to apologize or feel guilty for my feelings, and being firmer with regards to boundaries, she accuses me of being mean, unkind, uncaring, uncompassionate, and very different from how I was when we first met.

I don't think we've been abusive at all, but I do understand why our uBPDw's think that about us. It reminds me of the relationship that Michael Scott has with Toby from HR in The Office. Toby from HR taps very strongly into Michael's fear of limitations, so Michael lashes out at Toby with hate. Our actions to set boundaries and secure finances (among other things) for our own health and well being often taps into a BPD's fear of loneliness because those things that we try to set boundaries on are often the only coping mechanisms that they know how to use.

It's a vicious cycle, isn't it?

-LL

[Enabler]

Very much so, I have often found myself in rhetorical arguments with W where she says I need X, very much like a young child says they NEED a new bike. I look at W and see a 38yr old adult and think "how can you say this, you know that you don't NEED X, X is a luxury item, it's not contributory to your survival or wellbeing which is what we adults reserve the term NEED for".  But this is when I wasn't aware of BPD. Clothes for example, it is a NeED for her in her reality, she has to cover up her dirty shame, it's her mask, people might be able to see her for whom she really is! She NEEDs to get the dopamine hit from buying to make her feel better about herself. For her they are absolutely NEEDs and I am cruel restricting her ability to do so.

My thoughts are that you work on a framework that protects you and your shared financial goals from her impulsive spending. Allow her freedom with her own pot of money and isolate that pot as being fair and reasonable. You must quash the idea of you being controlling to MC, they think your W is a responsible and rational individual whom is capable of delayed gratification and won't stop spending into financial ruin.

[LameLemer]

I suggested the separate pot thing months ago. She rejected that out of hand and wouldn't even consider it. Maybe because she has been so used to me compromising throughout the budget cycle and getting what she wants anyway. Her idea of compromise is reducing a wanted expenditure (after we'd already spent our budgeted money) from $92 to $65. Also tried a variation on it when I came home two weeks ago, but she's already rejecting it again.

Maybe she'll agree to separate pots after long enough of me sticking to my guns on protecting our financial integrity, but I'll be lashed at during that whole time. I'm not sure I want to endure the equivalent of being the sole offensive player against a complete defensive line for maybe a couple yard gain.

[forlorn]

Hi, LL!  I've just read this thread and I have to tell you that I envy your clarity on the situation between you and your wife. And I also admire your ability to see and honor your commitment to establishing your own boundaries and allowing your own needs to have validity.  I think I was way too codependent over the last nine years in my relationship.  I've only now begun to entertain the idea that boundaries are really okay and that I'm not selfish for wanting my needs to be met, too.

Maybe you are different from when you first met.  But maybe that's because you are refusing to abandon yourself and your vision of what you want for the future, for what you perceive your future will be if you stay on this path with her the way things are.  I hope that I will be able to be that solid in myself at some point.

Although your wife might not see it the same way, it's very clear that you are compassionate and caring toward her. After all, your concern with managing your finances responsibly will ultimately benefit her and your future family if you stay together.

Walking the path with a pwBPD is a very long journey, with no guarantee of arrival at Nirvana. Sounds like you are doing a lot of very difficult work in asking yourself the right questions to ensure you land where you want to be. I applaud your bravery in facing answers that aren't easy to accept.

[Enabler]

Right, you need to see this not just from the perspective of financial ruin prevention but you need to look at the approach to getting to a compromise in a way that protects you from future allegations of abusive control. Every time you try and control her spending you run the risk of her friends saying "hey, this a hole is abusing you, you should have the rite to spend money as you wish".

May I suggest an approach which you can document... .documenting is important for when she starts to feel controlled and therefore abused.

- make a simple bucket list of your households fixed costs and where they go
- collate data about annual things such as holidays you know you need to budget for
- create buckets of savings for specific things you need to save for i.e. College
- have guesstimates for budgets for food
- have a bucket for something exciting with your SO

Now you have a framework and you probably have some leftover money
- allocate each of you the same amount of money from this pot and say this is money we can each spend on whatever we like... .anything, no questions

You might need to open a few checking accounts and a savings account

The whole process needs to be clear, easy enough for a dummy to agree, clear and consise. Remember this is to protect you. If your wife is anything like mine, she refuses to take responsibility and ownership of any kind of financial planning but wants to spend the money as and how she likes, cake and eat it.

Document her agreement if possible and then push push push until you implement it. Tell her that it will reduce financial conflict and that it will be in her benefit. Put a fence round your money and protect it from impulsive decision making. Tell her that the family plan can change with agreement and a sit down meeting every quarter, plan those meetings ahead.

You are not in complete control and she has shared ownership, it's documentaries and she has financial freedom.

[LameLemer]

@forlorn--I appreciate the kind words and solidarity. I'm glad if any sense solidity and clarity I give off is able to give strength to others, though I honestly don't feel like I have very much of either to offer. For me it's a fine line between acknowledging some of the hard truths in my relationship and being able to effectively act instead of merely being acted upon all the time. I'd say that I, like many of us on these message boards, am in a continual process of gaining clarity and that as I gain more I hope to be able to put correct behaviors and thoughts, for my part, into practice in order to truly feel solid in myself.

@Enabler--Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely try to put some of these strategies into effect.