He wants a divorce (again), but...

[pearlsw]

He always goes nuclear. And the usual divorce threat has come down again. It came slightly earlier than expected, I was expecting it next week.

His kids are set to arrive on Monday. This is going to be even more awkward than usual. I have no idea what is coming my way, how big this wave of emotional pain is going to be, but it's coming.

I may or may not be able to host this post very well this week. My apologies! I guess I am just asking for well wishes as my holidays, which were never that great to speak of really with him, are about to get erased totally. I drew a tree and taped it on the inside of the door to the room I'll likely awkwardly be spending this time alone behind while he and his kids (and for some crazy reason his ex-wife too?) will be on the other side living their lives as if I do not exist - stress and tension all around I'm sure. Poor kids if this happens. I had bought him a stocking and a few treats for it, maybe I will gift it to myself instead and tape it on the door too. I am fine with downsized holidays. I have been singing holiday songs to myself at night when I can't sleep and reflecting on holiday seasons past. I will find any tiny bit of joy and cheer I can grab onto for myself - I have two small serving sized bottles of prosecco for New Year's if my body/mind can handle it. In a way I had the holidays early by taking gifts to all my family while at my grandmother's funeral two weeks back... .so, that is enough. The memory of those hugs will have to carry me for awhile too as I have no physical human contact at all now.

This threat feels more real than ever, but it always does... .but I think this could be the beginning of the end this time. I don't see how this can go on with this level of escalation and dysfunction for much longer... .I was hoping we'd make it through to him seeking treatment in the New Year as he "promised", but... .I knew it was unlikely he could really follow through and that's okay... .I can accept there is no "forever" home for me and be good alone - just friends and family and volunteering and getting my work life back on track is enough at this point.

I must say that I have no regrets with doing all I can to learn/relearn my communication skills - no matter how this plays out. I have had painful breakups in the past and gotten through them and I'll get through this too, probably better than in the past if it gets that far. I can legally slow it all down and I likely will. I understand his pain, but he tends to move to this option in a quick and fiery way... .In this case because I would not let him look at my computer screen when I was typing on this site at a less than ideal time. I was afraid to lose the site or have myself exposed. I saved this for myself because without this I have no meaningful/life-sustaining support in life. I told him I was journaling, which I do a small bit of, and that he could not see the screen, that is what set him off... .I must be up to something and his jealousy and control issues sparked up. I had been feeling so proud that we had gotten through our past issues that his jealously helped kick off in the first place. It has really felt at times like a much smoother, though not perfect situation, was possible. We had both been feeling much more happy - or so I thought.

I was never with a jealous person before and this is what, in recollection, set us up for a lot of what has developed over our 7 years together - it made me fearful in ways I've never experienced (and will never allow again - jealousy is the kiss of death in my book) and it shred my principles and trampled on my identity. Inspired by others current posts I am going to work on letting go of Fear (FOG) and try to let myself ease more softly into the idea of having to let this all go and start a whole new life. I am heartbroken to have lost what at the start seemed like a chance at a "forever" home for me... .it has had its highlights, but I don't need to be loved in this way... .I just hope for more happiness (and stability finally!) in life whatever happens - together or apart. We'll see.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[BasementDweller]

Hi, pearlsw

I hope your Christmas can be salvaged. I am so sorry to hear of this. It must be terribly saddening - wanting to have a "normal" holiday with your family without all the strife, but feeling as if it won't be possible. You have been such a kind and helpful advisor to so many on this board, and given some good advice and support to so many, and now it seems that you might need a little bit of that in return. 

Have you and your husband tried therapy before? Either couples or individually?  (You may have said so somewhere on the boards, but I don't remember seeing it.) Do you think he will follow through on his agreement to go after the New Year?

Also - do you have a single friend/s that don't have partners, and maybe you can get together with them, and make dinner, put up some Christmas lights, and drink some wine and vent? You know, make your own fun Chistmas event? Sometimes just getting away from the "elephant in the room" and spending time with people who are in better spirits and truly appreciate your company makes all the difference. Is that a possibility for you? Even if you do it a day or two before or after Christmas?

[pearlsw]

Hi BasementDweller,

Oh I wish I had all such things you mention! It is especially sad because we were doing so well, feeling so happy I thought... .We were supposed to have a great week. We had bumped up our anniversary celebration to this weekend and I'd put up a few decorations. A small real tree that could last a few years was next on the list, but it is not to be this year. I'll be fine, other than if the kids are here and we're all uncomfortable and in dysfunctional limbo. (Lot more to say on that... .)

Counseling is complicated for us with our different languages and cultures. I know even doing individual counseling with just my cultural background was hard even in my home country - I am not from the dominant culture there. I am sure no one would "get us" and I honestly think this would be too emotionally difficult for both of us. I had just gotten him on board with an at home yoga practice and I use other at home relaxation techniques to help ease his stress and worries. He was interested in DBT for awhile and even medication, but I think this time he will put the blame totally on me. With visitors coming soon (I guess?) it will be even easier to ignore/erase me and put up a wall between us that we may not get over again. It is so painful when he flips like this... .I feel like I'm desperately calling to someone who has fallen down a well and can't hear me... .is lost to me for now, maybe forever.

His control/jealousy issues have been a long-standing issue for us and may be beyond repair - they strike me as somewhat cultural and somewhat BPD. I dunno. They are one of the worst relationship bugs I've ever dealt with in my (yikes) 37 years of adult relationships! This is the biggest lesson I have from this. No more partners with any drop of jealousy issues for me, if I ever do another relationship which I have no more strong urgency about... .I can let this part of life wind down and find other stuff to keep me busy.

I think the odds of us making it back to being a couple are going lower and lower with each meltdown. I am still up for it and am patient about his issues, but constant divorce threats are seriously no way to live. His world is so black and white - there is nothing in-between and nothing gradual about it. He wants me out yesterday - that's about how well he handles it.

I can't thank you enough for your kindness! I am so glad I pulled it together enough to get a post up about this. Sorry if ya'll don't see me around supporting enough while this crisis is going on.

[BasementDweller]

Everyone needs some time for themselves, and I think most will understand if you have to take some time to address your own situation.

Living with a pwBPD is never easy, and the holidays exacerbate everything, don't they? All the extra stress and pressure really does a number on them, and I think that many pwBPD know in some fundamental way, whether they are aware of or accept their diagnosis/condition or not, that their behavior alienates people. Therefore, when the holidays come, and friends and family are on the scene, and the activity in the house gets more hectic, there is all sorts of additional pressure and encroachments on them, when they are barely hanging on by a thread as it is.

Many people besides the BPD's SO don't see the worst of their behavior, and with all the holiday visitors, they feel pressure to reel it in a bit so nobody sees what's really going on. They feel under the microscope. And they know that their partner is really wanting to have a fun and festive time, and they know they are not capable of participating with the same level of ease... .so all their neurosis gets exacerbated.

He may not want a divorce right now any more than he has in the past when he made this threat, then backed off. It sounds like yet another defense mechanism triggered by the pressure of the holidays, and your expecations of wanting it to be fun and lively. Which is normal and healthy, but he's not in that place in his head, so he's gone nito a tailspin. Perhaps by saying he wants YOU gone, he's really saying he wants the pressure gone. The pressure of acting "right" in front of a house full of people, the pressure of having to socialize, the pressure of having to "celebrate" with everyone, etc... .I suspect when the holidays are over he'll level off again for a while. The only advice I can give is to give him his space, act like you're not all that bothered by it, try to have as much fun as you can, and at least try to tune him out for the time being. Maybe after the new year, you can reintroduce the therapy route. I suspect that a bi-cultural couple with marital issues won't be too shocking to most counselors. We're in the same boat you are, and our T handles it ok. Hopefully you can find a similar situation when the time is right. 

[pearlsw]

Hey BasementDweller,

Thanks so much. The only point about different cultures I meant to make is that since we both come from groups that have been either historically oppressed and/or continue to experience racism, discrimination, prejudice, etc. it can make counseling awkward - it can add to our troubles by feeling insulted/slighted/misunderstood... .Having to spend so much extra time explaining ourselves makes it feel like we are paying to educate them instead of getting help. I have tendency to be a little skeptical about Western psychology being something that is universally applicable. I am happy to use any tools and chuck the parts I don't relate to though. I know counseling has been awkward for me in the past - feeling more like an object of fascination than treated fully human. I was also asked out about by a therapist on my first visit once and he kept asking after that (and I had to file a report because of it) and the last time I tried it my h tried to control it all so I am a lot less open to it than I used to be. Expense is also an issue... .so, sadly enough, we can't even afford a divorce at this time. But we'll see.

My life is way too complicated!    thank you for your ideas. I really appreciate all you wrote!

[snowglobe]

Dear pearlsw,
I’m so sorry that this wave came around the holidays and you are hurting. It’s never a perfect timing, but when it falls on birthdays and holidays, I particularly feel about my time being wasted on no memories made. After all, those sweet memories are what carries us through in life when we are beaten and down. That being said, why don’t we get down to the practicals. What can you do and where can you go to temporarily allow yourself some air to breath? How can you ensure that you take care of you, while he is working through his issues? I’ve been doing a lot of reading on de-stressing, here are a few practical things to help through this time:
1. Mindfulness, as you know we all have a need for certainty. This “limbo of unknown” is what particularly detrimental to our cognition. I personally want it to be over one way or another at times when my uBPDh is dysregulated. It’s almost as if I’m asking him to make that decision so I can move on with rebuilding my life. It’s not particularly helpful when he is disregulated, so the odds are him rather ending these relationship are increasing. Do you have an option of “floating” practice, wherever you are? It’s a chamber for a complete sensory deprivation, you are floating in a complete darkness, in highly concentrated salt solution, you can’t see, hear or touch, this after about 20 minutes or so your brain starts creating its own reality, constructing it of memories. It’s like a virtual tour of your own creation. This is an amazing experience for people in chronic pain, stress, anxiety and those seeking answers. If you have any means of experiencing it for yourself, it would surely bring some relief to the tension you are experiencing. You are a shining torch of this forum, I hope this episode will end just as quickly and it begun.

[pearlsw]

I told him it was too painful to talk about divorce today and to either email me or use a lawyer. He could not respect this although all is closed for the next 2 weeks here. He was freaked out. He started calling all my family back home in US. One by one. I would have to talk to one and he would start on the next. He created an escalating crisis. I called the police to put a stop to it. He called three people. And by chance another family member called to check on me.

Luckily they all were all cool and helped me.  All offered to help me. So, I am partially out of the part of the jail of isolation that was my own making - not turning to these people who love me and will do all they can if necessary. I wanted to save myself. I have been so private for so long, but they were all lovely.

I am shaking. His kids come on Monday still. Hoping for a quiet, peaceful night.

[pearlsw]

How do I possibly handle this kid's visit on Monday?

[pearlsw]

When he is like this, so extreme... .it feels as though the other person I know him as died.

[pearlsw]

Guess this was an extinction burst? I enforced a privacy boundary and he lost it.

We may not recover from this though.

[Radcliff]

Pearlsw, this is messy and scary but you are handling it exceptionally well.  Sometimes when our pwBPD lose control they give us a gift without meaning to.  Those calls to your family were an over the top boundary violation which must have been so upsetting but which broke through a barrier to make more help available to you.  Your family may also better understand what you are dealing with. It is unlikely he helped his case.

How did the police react?  How did you do with the language situation?  What a stressful situation in which to have to speak a different language!

You can do this.  Please be mindful of your physical safety.



WW

[pearlsw]

At what point should I just let him have his divorce? I don't want one but he does. With his illness... .I have a hard time giving in on this point because he always changes back, but at some point... .I just don't know anymore. I don't want him to suffer because of me.

[Radcliff]

At what point should I just let him have his divorce? I don't want one but he does. With his illness... .I have a hard time giving in on this point because he always changes back, but at some point... .I just don't know anymore. I don't want him to suffer because of me.

I would not burden yourself with answering that question now.  For you to collaborate on a divorce or a reconciliation, you need to be in a safe, calm place.  You need to be able to consider the highs and lows -- the whole picture -- when you think about what you want to do.  Try to let go of that pressure to think and decide right now in this dark time; that will lighten your load now.

WW

[pearlsw]

Was trying to be nice and help clean up for the kid's visit. He compared me to a cancer he wants to cut out of his leg. Or whatever. Decided to take a break and not clean for now. Let him know not okay to talk to me that way. Hellish times.

[babyducks]

Hi Pearl,

You are a good person and you deserve all the joy and cheer you can grab onto for yourself.   You are worthy of a safe physical contact in an environment free of stress and tension.   You are a strong person and have gotten through difficult times in the past.   You will get through this one too.

If holidays... .all holidays are about reflection, emotion and gratitude I would encourage you to take 15 minutes and concentrate on what you have given and gotten during the course of the last year.   I don't mean the boxes under the tree.   I don't mean to include him in this reflection.   Think about the gifts you have given to people on this site.    People you will never meet but have helped, shared with, connected too.   Never doubt that people have felt the ripple from the wave you've dared to make.

At what point should I just let him have his divorce? I don't want one but he does. With his illness... .I have a hard time giving in on this point because he always changes back, but at some point... .I just don't know anymore. I don't want him to suffer because of me.

If you want to talk more about this I am all ears.    If you want to take a break from deep introspection I support that too.   

My first thought as I read that post was... .why don't you want one?    Since there is no tone of voice in text I want to tell you I am honestly gently curious.   People don't stay in relationships unless some need is being met.    I can't see what need of yours is being met with your husband.    Can you?   What kind of need is it?   I have some needs that are deeply embedded in my personality that really, honestly, are no dang good for me.    Simplest one is I have a deep deep sweet tooth, a great love of sugar... .and ya know what,... .it's not very good for me.     

At a deeper level I have a need to NOT let people help me.   I have a need to be the captain of my own ship, master of my own fate, and not risk the vulnerability and shame that comes with honestly saying 'hey I've fallen down, help me up here.'   I get where that comes from,  lots of old painful experience but I know I will hold on to that need long beyond it being wise.

So I wonder, what needs of yours are in play here?    You mentioned that you don't want him to suffer because of you.   So that's a need, a condition, a requirement of yours right?  Doesn't have anything to do with him, thats part of what you bring to the mosaic of the relationship.   How could you make him suffer?   By something you did intentionally?   By something you did unintentionally?   By staying?   and not giving him what he wants in the moment?     By leaving and taking away something he will want in the next moment?

My two cents,   I don't think he is or is going to suffer because of you.    You aren't that powerful.      I think you are right when you say:

I think the odds of us making it back to being a couple are going lower and lower with each meltdown.

These kinds of cycles of conflict take a toll,   it's hard to recover from some of the stuff we hear, even if we have every intention to recover and get back to the good times.    People aren't wired to bounce back from threats and abusive language and feel 'fine' the next day.   I would suggest, strongly suggest you find a way to disconnect from the stress and tension.   Go for long walks,  physically remove yourself from the room.  If you can't physically leave,  emotionally disconnect.    Do multiplication tables in your head,   if you have a favorite prayer, say it backwards, that will force the mind to concentrate on something else,  if you don't have a favorite prayer pick a mantra and use that.   My mantra is a very simple one.   YOU ARE STRONG. YOU ARE SUPPORTED. YOU ARE ENOUGH.    You can borrow it.

It's naturally a fearful thing to be threatened with divorce.   You want to walk right into the teeth of that fear.   Just the way you are.   and do what Wentworth suggestions,... .give yourself time to figure out what you want,  why you want that, and what that means for you as an individual, not as part of a couple.

'ducks

[Harley Quinn]

Pearls I don't know how you remained calm in the face of that.  You're a far more patient woman than I, that's for sure.  Try to remember, it's not personal.  His issues are his own and when he is no longer overwhelmed with his current emotion he will not be happy that he spoke to you that way either.  He is feeling his feelings and this is the only way he knows how to handle that.  How are you spending your time now?  In your shoes I'd be tempted to take myself to my happy place and go about my day seeming unaffected.  Is there something nice you can do for you today during this time of stress?  If he is treating you poorly, perhaps you can go out for a walk by yourself and get some air, be present with your surroundings, notice things like the leaves on the trees.  Just take yourself out of the past and the future and get into the moment.  Make your moments good ones.

Just to go back to a comment in an earlier post.  You are not causing his suffering.  His illness is causing him to suffer and his inability to cope and manage his dysregulated emotions.  I hope that he eventually becomes tired of his own suffering enough that he opts to look at alternative ways to handle these.  Perhaps what it will take is for him to suffer enough the consequences of his behaviour.  You might want to think about this a little.  

Thinking of you

Love and light x

[Notwendy]

Hi Pearls-

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Have you considered this to be a cycle? Seems he just did this- and at that time too- he seemed to mean it, moved out, consulted his lawyer. I recall- were his kids coming as well? Perhaps this is a trigger for him?

Remember the push pull, and also the "abuse" or anger cycle. It goes up and down, or round and round. Like the waves- do you have high tide and low tide? When things are bad between you- it takes its course. When things are good, you also know this is part of a cycle.

What if you looked at this like a scientist looks at patterns or waves. I don't know if this is the end of the relationship or not, but in your past threads, this didn't last. I know it is hard, but perhaps staying calm and trying not to be fearful will help get you through it.

[pearlsw]

He's back. I'm shocked, but shouldn't be. More when safe.

[flourdust]

Just a few thoughts here... .

Imagine your husband is the weather. Sometimes calm and sunny, sometimes gray and rainy, and sometimes thunderstorms with tornadoes. (I’m from the Midwest, can’t you tell?)

You can’t control the weather, and the bad weather can ruin your day. Some of the weather is scary and destructive.

What you can do is prepare for the weather. Buy an umbrella for the rain, dig a storm shelter for tornadoes.

These every six week explosions are tornadoes. You want to make the tornado stop, your husband wants you to jump into the tornado to fully experience it. The smart thing to do is to go into your shelter.

Enough analogies - make your own preparations for these explosions. Have a go bag and a place to go. Consult an attorney to know your rights and how to prepare. Refuse to engage in signing papers or whatever his demands are. If he wants to divorce you - if the tornado is going to destroy your house - it will happen without your help. As for his kids ... .you don’t have to play the part in the drama he has written for you. You can be nice to them, get out of their way, or best yet - treat them exactly as they choose to treat you.

Finally, as ‘ducks says... .you don’t need to live in tornado country. If it’s not worth it, move to a calmer climate.

[zachira]

Do we matter to the BPD? Can a BPD have empathy? The difference between a normal person and a BPD, is a normal person is able to be present and remember that they care about a person even when they are annoyed with this person.  A BPD sees everything in black and white, so you are hated in the moment, or someone they feel positive about in the moment, which can be real empathy or just a way to get some positive feedback for themselves. Safe people are pretty much the same person in all situations. Unsafe people are fragmented and you never know what part of them is going to come out. People who are unable to tolerate intimacy will often be charitable with strangers, as this feels safe.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Pearls-

I'm so so sorry you're faced with this situation and this sadness.  And In addition to the high stress level around this year's holidays, You're indicating that your fear is heightened.  Please... .What do you mean when you say "More when safe"?

Under "normal" circumstances when contemplating our futures, we'd like to take lots of time to carefully and thoughtfully weigh our options about a marriage.  However in certain situations we are NOT afforded that luxury of time.  We are forced to action in order to preserve our safety and wellbeing.  I was personally forced to action.  I am praying it does NOT come to this for you, but if it does, you CAN do what you need to do!

It is a very GOOD thing that your family in the U.S. now has an inkling that there is a problem in your marriage.  Allow them to help you if you need help.  If you've been isolated emotionally, please try to be more willing to share.  You have nothing to be ashamed of.  Nothing.

I am sincerely hoping that your husband calmed down and wanted to prepare your home for the visitors WITH you; and that's the reason you stayed off the board for the rest of the day. 

Can you please provide insight into why you feel you must segregate yourself from guests in your own home?  What is it about his children that is so awful?  I will tell you that during my 19-year marriage with my ex-husband, I entertained and fed his 2 prior ex-wives more times than I care to EVER admit.  All so he could be with his kids.  I was the consummate hostess. 

I apologize that I am all over the place with my response.  Lots on my mind and lists all over the place.  I want to reach out to you.  I am thinking of you, Pearls.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[pearlsw]

Thanks for long, thoughtful replies! Will write more when safe. Just a thought for today: this seems like a form of mania today... .with the sudden shift back and the whirl of ideas he's having... .sell things, go to Australia for med. treatment for pain, etc. All sudden, zero patience, off scale.

[pearlsw]

He's promising to go to his doctor and get on some mood stabilizers. (This could take weeks, if it happens, and then another month? Until/if it works.)

Thanks again for replies!   Will write reply fully when safe.  

Now time for Mexican hot chocolate and keeping warm!   

[Notwendy]

Each time this happens- and from past behavior, I think it is likely, read through your old posts. I think you will see this is a pattern.

[pearlsw]

He apologized last night, and again today of his own accord. He is nearly in tears, and deeply ashamed for calling my family members like he did. I asked him to go ahead and delete their numbers from this phone so that he can't repeat that, but he was silent about it. (We'll see how that pans out when I can get back to it.) We are gearing up for the kid's visit. He is stressed about it. Me too. Gave him a pep talk about it and pledged to help as best I can. He had a few ideas to make things good too. One day at a time. Wish I could get him to a doctor now though. He's trying to lose himself in his work, and I am nearby providing him a little security/stability while studying my own language stuff, having my own fun.

[flourdust]

By any chance, pearl, did you watch Lost? Remember the countdown clock in the bunker?

[pearlsw]

flourdust,   No, I don't know about this. Tried to google and decipher, but no luck. I'm curious where this might go... .I'm all ears!

[flourdust]

So, in Lost, the characters came across this underground bunker that had a room with a countdown clock and a computer. Every 108 minutes, the clock ticked down to zero, and everything started going crazy -- alarms, lights, noises. They had to enter a code into the computer to reset the clock to 108 minutes. They didn't know what would happen when the clock reached zero, but they had to rush to reset it every time it got close.

The characters would panic when the clock approached zero and the alarms were sounding, and they would ignore it when it wasn't approaching zero.

I thought of this show when reading your posts about your husband's last two cycles of craziness.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi pearls,

I'm glad that your husband has come around.  What do you plan to do now to tackle this ongoing behaviour that is unacceptable for you?  Flourdust raises a good point.  We can all be susceptible to feeling the relief, cherishing the good times and wanting to revel in these, however only when things are calm can any productive conversations hope to happen.  Have you thought about what you would like to do to address things, and what approach you might take?

Love and light x 

[pearlsw]

Not having a good time with this, with him "coming back".

His 3 "kids" are here. Still underwater.