Thanks for helping - 2 young kids, wife BPD, 11 yrs married. How 2 avoid divorce

[irareichel]

I would divorce immediately if it were not for the 2 children age 8 and 11. My wife is functional, and poisoning the kids attitude toward me. We almost lost our home, and had to file bankruptcy. She's not injuring herself physically, but she's very very bright (a physician), and has a lot of narcissism. She is in denial about BPD, and refuses to go to marital or individual therapy.

My relationship feels like it's over. She agrees on this point, and is very irrational, but that's BPD.

Thanks for considering helping, I'm going to seek individual therapy (again) and hope she does not sabotage it - the last therapist was so kind - she charged 0 dollars, while we were fighting bankruptcy, and my BPD wife made me stop going because the therapist is a woman. I could have kept going, but living with the nagging and irrational accusations was worse that stopping therapy.

I've told her I'll go to couples therapy anywhere anytime, she has to set it up. The 3 times I set up couples therapy all lasted one session. I think therapists get her disorder quickly, and fire us.

Blessings to all of you that can hang in there.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[an0ught]

Hi irareichel,

being very bright does not preclude serious financial trouble. Constantly taking extreme positions, sabotaging compromise and ones own goals tends to lead down that path. There is big difference between cognitive intelligence and wisdom. It is the latter that is missing and the burden is on you to provide it for the time being  .

My BPD wife made me stop going because the therapist is a woman. I could have kept going, but living with the nagging and irrational accusations was worse that stopping therapy.

Check out the LESSONS post sticking at the top of the board. Dealing with such situations is tough and requires a good skill foundation. The problem here is that giving into her irrational and damaging demands for short term peace is confirming her suspicions, damaging your social network and the ability to sustain the family. Right now it is dammed if you do and dammed if you don't but with diligent skill building you can do the right thing AND survive the minor volcano eruption unscathed and stronger.

There are some indications that writing about your issues and thoughts can be more helpful that even vocalizing them. I can only encourage you to be active on the board. It is a long term process (no matter which way the relationship goes) and it helps to have another perspective and source of support.

I've told her I'll go to couples therapy anywhere anytime, she has to set it up. The 3 times I set up couples therapy all lasted one session. I think therapists get her disorder quickly, and fire us.

Couples therapy has not a good track record in solving BPD issues but can help getting the pwBPD started on therapy or can complement the process. The key in the long term is her learning to cope better. Right now the key is your learning.

but living with the nagging

There is no point in directly fighting the nagging. An effective strategy can be validation where on acknowledges the underlying emotion which in this case likely would be insecurity (other person invading in the relationship), possibly envy (you having this resource), fear (you learning about her defects) and jealousy. And if validation does not help (and it likely will require tuning and repetition of what works) then simply walk out for a timeout (yeah it is cold, but what can you do   ). Scary the first times but gets easier. Again check out the LESSONS as both preparation as commitment are vital.

   Welcome to the board   ,

a0

[Go]

My heart goes out to you at this time.  I am presently passing through divorce myself after a marriage of 25 years to a BPD wife.  I of myself would not have initiated it, even after all these years, so know where you are in your head... .or at least I think I do.   I am left with 5 kids now and a wife that has disappeared overseas, so I get where you are at this point in your relationship.  First of all you have come to the right place.  This is where you can vent and speak your mind and get some constructive feedback.  No you are not going mad, you are just a nice bloke who loves a women who is something of a fruit loop on more occasions than you would like her to be.  Know every day she is playing a horrible game of control with you, one she is desperate to win at all costs.

First of all you need to accept it will always be your fault not hers. Why? Inside her is a 3 to 5 year old emotionally speaking, with an adult brain that is very good at trying to cover up the multiverse of crazy that attends a plethora of self serving behaviours.  You will feel like you are loved occasionally, if you are lucky, passionately so, but my heavens, for it you pay a terrible price.  Retaining your own identity and self worth is critical.  She will wear you down, her capacity to ___ you out is utterly infinite.  This is her undeveloped inner emotional child, I want candy, I want candy, I want candy, that can never be sated.

The inability to pay a fair price for anything is another key one and being sent bankcrupt is not just highly likely... .it is invariably inevitable until some firmness and needful discipline is estabilished in the relationship (1) because she is a foul money manager bent on emotional consumption (2) because you are yet to learn how to say no to this, I want and must have, immaturity. 

Many years ago, (when $50k was a very good annual salary) my BPD wife once spent $10k in two days, my entire annual bonus and monthly pay on presents at Xmas.   I hit the roof and made her take half of it back.  It was an important turning point.  After that she was given a strict budget for each kid at Xmas.  We always had a holiday too.  She accepted if I worked hard, I could afford to take them on a holiday interstate.

Shared bank accounts are a disaster too, but so are individual ones as she will spend everything she earns in seconds and run up her own credit cards.  Setting strict guidelines may help to get things into control.  She actually wants control in her life, just typically unwilling to pay the price.  You are going to get blamed for things... .guaranteed... .it will always be your fault.  I was always told I did not make enough, even when I hit the top 20% of incomes, and we partially owned a home in a very nice part of the city, I had slaved to buy.  Better you take a stand and stand up to that 3 to 5 year old and at last win a battle, one you cannot afford to lose I might add.

I went there for years always broke and yes had people walking into our house valuing our assets to sell, if we failed to pay against court letters. She would walk out, as it turns out now for the 2nd time has slept with another man, hence the end for me.  Both times to manipulate me to get her way, though most of the time she had no idea what she wanted, just another cheap fix for her constant nagging creed and narcissism.   Dark times they were for me,  I can tell you.  There I was holding a 6 and 3 years old plus a 12 month old baby at night, while she was out looking for the next best thing in her life. 

As you can see there is always a massive financial cost, sometimes a deep moral one and eventually a very high emotional one as the you in you is slowly stripped away and discredited.  The trick is always to cap it. Make clear that her option is so bad, that yours no matter how bad is preferable to you.   Mark a line in the sand and say you go over that point, it ends and mister fix it nice guy ends too.  Consequently I trimmed things down to bare bones and set strict financial budgets and it was a very good outcome as in time she embraced them and became very adept at living within our means, once some paying bills routines were set in stone following a routine manner.  Providing dates and a little flexibility did not do any harm.  We soon paid out our debts and bought a new block for a new home.  Working a 2nd job, did not do any good prior as she just spent whatever more I made on rubbish.  Living tight was the answer.  Finding time and money for dates, even $2 ones, also helped a great deal.   I think your wife is clearly a higher functioning BPD, (she has good sense of discipline) where my wife never did, which for you makes it all the more bizarre.  If she was as thick as two bricks you could possible deal with the crazy, but she is smart, savvy and will have a tongue like a sword, but as much commonsense as a fruit loop and very often even less self control.   I suggest you find a firm place for yourself.  For me it was setting my guideposts and lighthouses along this very rocky shore, by holding firm to higher principles, Stephen Covey style. Love of Family, kindness, and routine help,  but firmness only when absolutely required.   Infinite love for my kids years on now has paid off with all of them staying with me after the split and now getting educated and ready for a well balanced life, with an equally yoked partner.   While you have to wear all this, you are clearly mitigating abuse, by stopping such screaming activities dead in their tracks in the home, will take nerves of steal.  Firmness and fairness might get your kids raised with as little damage as possible. 

So why does she object to you getting counselling.  Jealousy is common in the earlier years of marriage to a BPD.  They play the game by pushing others, particularly your support network of friends colleagues and in this case counsellor away. The issue is one you may not quite understand, but ironically to a borderline, sharing intimate details with anyone is like you are committing emotional adultery with them.  This part of them is severlely damaged and she knows she cannot compete, so feels in-adequate, which indeed she actually is sadly enough.  To have what one might suggest, is something of an emotional link to another person particularly a women is red rag to a bull.  Similarly even a man can also be seen as a personal affront or challenge to their capacity to fulfil your every need in this sphere.  I had my BPD go off like time bomb at my then boss, with whom I had a very early morning 9 holes of golf.  Losing control or losing face is everything to them and they instantly see the thin edge of the wedge as it were, and close every door imaginable in your face.  Even the front door, when you attempt to walk out for some air during one of their lengthy tirades.  You have kids, and good on you for sticking like glue.  BPDs can be so much fun as a spouse, but my heavens the flip side is just aweful.  I funnily enough see myself as someone else now back then and so pity the me of then.  I didn't even know what BPD was let alone know how to cope with all this and truly thought I was a good part of the problem as she would always try to convince me, it was always my fault and I was ill adjusted as an uncaring husband.  Frankly though, when you have constant tirades and have a wife always finding problems or running head long into needless brick walls, it gets a bit hard to love another unconditionally.   Finding in her the emotionally insecure 5 year old, might help with this dilemma.  Be wary of bolstering the ego.  too much and she will no longer believe you.  You are so beautiful, may work occasionally, but You will need to keep it balanced or it gets old.   A 'wow girl' 'dang hot' depending on her culture, may go a lot further as their sexuality is always touchy and being seen as desirable (unfortunately to everyone) is everything to them.   Continually praising her talents which will be many... .that you will get away with... .add a BUT into that sentence and you have undone a week's work.   Get used to walking on egg shells, if you haven't already.  These are my experiences.  Some of my advise I guarantee will blow up in your face, but suggest the alternative is even more of a Big Bang in a not good way.
God bless you and your babies and no less your BPD wife.  If they could see what they are doing they would not do it, but their capacity to see it is very limited indeed, so they spend their lives abusing others.  She will eventually find your Achillies heel and learn to turn the knife.  Stay robust and speak frankly about what is going on when it gets all too much.  Occasionally it will help you both heal.  It may not be permanent, but it denotes in you, the spirit of not giving in, for what you deeply desire to have, even though it will be a somewhat compromised form, still it will have some very unique parts.
Regard Go.

[clytie]

"First of all you need to accept it will always be your fault not hers. Why? Inside her is a 3 to 5 year old emotionally speaking, with an adult brain that is very good at trying to cover up the multiverse of crazy that attends a plethora of self serving behaviours.  You will feel like you are loved occasionally, if you are lucky, passionately so, but my heavens, for it you pay a terrible price.  Retaining your own identity and self worth is critical.  She will wear you down, her capacity to ___ you out is utterly infinite.  This is her undeveloped inner emotional child, I want candy, I want candy, I want candy, that can never be sated."

So true... .After a 21-year-r/s, all I have is his blames with a lot of pain and with little self-worth... .They always need candy and always get it... .