How do you handle hurtful needless comments?

[5xFive]

My uBPDh is dysregulating again. We had a great Christmas vacation but now he has to go back to work and he doesn’t want to. He’s back to it being all my fault and he hates me again. He’s sending me hurtful texts but I’m not allowed to reply back via text. I called him and he didn’t answer but he texted me back that he has dog poop on his shoe and the dog poop is more important to him than I am. Do I just ignore this type of comment?

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[40days_in_desert]

What do you typically do in those situations and what are the results?
Have you spoken with anyone such as a T to come up with a boundary for situations like this?

[pearlsw]

Hi 5xfive,

I am sorry you had to hear such a nasty comment. My h recently compared me to a cancer he wanted to cut out of his leg, or something. At the time I was actually doing something quite nice for him, straightening up and cleaning up for his upcoming (at the time) kid's visit. I told him very directly, without raising my voice, that it's not okay to talk to me like that and walked out of the room we were both in at the time.

I don't know what it is about me, but I just hear this kind of stuff for the b.s. it is and don't let it drag me down. I guess I heard a lot worse things at school as a kid and I have thick enough skin not to take it personally. I just hear "garbage, garbage, garbage" and it does not (typically) get under my skin. I don't like to hear it, I don't like that I'm with someone who talks in such a low way, but it does not undermine me as a human. I just think, "Wow, how cheap of a comment. That is reflection on you, not me." At other times I might be able to hear the hurt/pain behind the comment and respond to that, but cheap insults go straight into the garbage as far as I'm concerned. One thing I definitely do not do is name call back or ever "give him a taste of his own medicine".

I think you might want to explore coming up with a standard approach to such stuff. It is important to have boundaries/values/responses to such things.

[5xFive]

Since I am not allowed to text back, I normally call him and try to talk to him. This often happens when he is at work because he hates his job and he blames me. If he doesn't answer, I typically try to forget about it. Sometimes he gets busy and a couple of hours will go by. Then he will start texting me again. If I don't call him, then I "lost" my chance to have him in my life. I try not to defend, I try to stay calm but it's so hard. He is mad at me today because I overslept. He relies on me to massage his neck and shoulders in the morning to get him ready for the day. He has neck problems and he says this is the only way that he can start his day. I overslept today and then the baby woke up and I was nursing her and I didn't go rub him. He got mad because he accuses me of not being consistent. I can't help but feel defensive about this. I over-freaking-slept!
So now he is saying that he is going to get himself an apartment. This doesn't even make sense since he says he wants to leave our state. It isn't rational and I want to question it. Instead, when he says he doesn't want to be near me, I replied that that hurts me. He then accuses me of being selfish. Now I know that was the wrong response. It is lose/lose. I honestly just want to turn off my phone until he decides to come home. I feel like a failure every time he TELLS me I have failed him.

Re: therapy: I have a great one but I am unable to afford to go anymore. I lost my job in October and I am trying to work from home. The income is much less than it was.

I do like your idea of just throwing it in the garbage in my mind. I really liked where you said that it reflects on them and not us.

Its just so hard to know how to respond. So frustrating.

[5xFive]

The worst is when he tells me that he wishes I would die. Honestly, I just want to curl up into a ball and cry. How can I love someone who says something like this to me? I don’t understand and I don’t know what skill or tool I can use in this situation.

[pearlsw]

Hi 5xFive,

Oh, I really understand how hurtful this can be! It really does a number on you to hear such things from a person who loves you.

Have you had much chance to explore the workshops yet? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0;sort=subject

I think the lessons on boundaries would be helpful, also do you know much yet about depersonalization?

I want to write more, but I'm gonna send this first as I see you need a bit of a boost at this time! 

[pearlsw]

Hi again 5xFive,

Have you ever seen a child who is upset? I am not around young children so often, but I can picture scenarios from media. Now, picture for a moment a child who is mad at you for say, not giving them what they want in this exact moment. They want something, but you simply can't allow it, it would hurt them and you are protecting them let's say.

Now imagine them getting upset with you and saying "I want you to die!" That would sting a bit, but you would also probably recognize that this young child was not really emotionally equipped and just said these words to you because they couldn't think of a more appropriate, mature thing to say. Ya know?

So, not to be at all disrespectful to anyone with BPD/traits, but perhaps you might want to imagine your partner now as that small child who doesn't have all the life experience, understanding of their own emotions and others emotions, and possibility to come up with something more appropriate to say. Now imagine that small child is living inside your partner and that small child is going to say, perhaps, many such things. That is hurtful, but it is really not personal to you. That person is saying such things, but that person does not really have the emotional skills necessary, when emotions are running high, to say something better like "I'm hurt and I need to talk about it with you."

What do you think? Does this visualization help a bit with depersonalization?

[5xFive]

Thank you. I’ve read through all of the lessons several times. I have a boundary fail on a regular basis. Or he blows through them. I’ll read about depersonalization again. I take everything personally.
Yes. That makes a lot of sense... .

[I_Am_The_Fire]

5xFive... .I am so sorry you're going through this. It's awful. My therapist helped me to develop "shields" whenever my now ex was around because he would say many many horrible, awful, hurtful things to me time and time again. I don't know if this would help you or not. It may sound silly but it works for me when I remember to do it. I try to imagine an invisible shield around me. Nothing he says can get to me. I'm still present (not dissociated) and paying attention but I won't allow those words to get to me. It took time and practice and it helped me. Also, educating yourself may help, like the suggestions here. I wholeheartedly agree with having good healthy boundaries. Make sure you take care of yourself. Having a baby is stressful enough without having to deal with the awful things he says to you. From what you wrote, it sounds to me like he is projecting his feelings onto you and he wants you to manage his emotions for him. I think it may help to read up on projection and codependency if you are able to. These are just my thoughts. *hugs*

[pearlsw]

Hi I_Am_The_Fire and 5xFive,

I think this idea you mention sounds good Fire, I was thinking of something along those lines as well! Thank you for spelling this out so well!

5xFive, It happens, these situations can be incredibly overwhelming and our boundaries get run right over and then backed up over and then they leave skid marks! It's hard!  

It takes time. 

May I ask, you say you "take everything personally"... .is there more going on inside you that you'd like to share? Did you come into this relationship with pre-existing damage to your self-esteem? Past negative experiences? Do you feel strong enough at this time to take on trying out these ideas? Anything else we can talk over with you and try our best to offer support with?

[5xFive]

My T also suggested this shield. I forget about it a lot. I need to try to practice it more often. We did a lot of practice in my sessions but it has been over a year since I have been able to see her.

My self-esteem has been in the dumps for years. I say I take everything personally because of the feedback that I have received from others. Mostly my husband of course, but others have mentioned it in passing as well. I lost my job back in October. It really threw me off balance. I didn't expect it and I thought I was going to be there until I retired. My boss told me in my exit interview that my work was exceptional but that I have too many home distractions and it was affecting my co-workers. There were 3 times in 2017 that I had to leave work because h threatened suicide. Made a video and sent it to me. I set boundaries, I even stuck to them for the most part. But every time I failed, everything spun out of control and it got bad. Whenever there was an extinction burst, h would call the office line instead of my cell phone, and I think this was part of my employers decision.

I have never had oodles of self-worth. I am really hard on myself and I tend to believe what my h says to me when he dysregulates. The times when things are good between us do not make up for the damage that is done by his words and his actions. Additionally, when he is in a good mood, he refuses to talk about anything that might bring him down. I tried to set some goals with him for 2018 but he blew me off. Then today back to blaming me for everything that is wrong in our life. When I mentioned to him again today that we should set a goal, he replied that he had goals for the last 17 years and I always blew him off so now he doesn't want to work with me.

Anytime something bad happens to him at work, he texts me that he hopes it makes me feel good that this is happening to him. I kind of get what he is saying... .? When I lost my job, there was about 5 minutes of vindication, I felt like HE did this to me and finally he will see it and stop. But then I realized that I should have done better, been better and maybe I would still have my job.

Bottom line, I don't know why I think I take everything personally. I know he says this about me, and I feel hurt or angry or scared a lot. People affect me. The way people feel about me or what they say affects me. I know I struggle with co-dependence. I just so badly want to feel loved and the only time I truly feel loved is when I am spending time with my kids. But then sometimes I find myself questioning myself. Am I expecting too much from my children? Am I going to make them as screwed up as I feel most days?

Sorry for the rant. I am going to go review the skills workshops some more... .

[pearlsw]

Oh no, no need to apologize! It's good to think this through - if it's helping you and not hurting you to do so! I don't want to add to your pain!

I want to toss out one other idea... .um... .how about some positive self-talk? Like, I dunno, I wasn't treated very well recently, so I might say things to myself like "I'm awesome. I like me. I deserve a happy life. Good things will happen, especially if I don't give up on myself." All kinds of things that counteract my worries. And in terms of love, how about internal self-talk like "I love me. I'm nice. I do good things." Stuff like that that counters my h trying to make out to be not worthy of his love. Perhaps just take a little time to direct some positive energy in your own direction.

Random side note: I just baked myself a cookie for one. It was a crappy recipe and didn't turn out well, but I still feel good that I tried to do something special for myself. I could be upset that my husband took a lot of the food when he left for a few days, that I didn't really have enough butter to bake something better, but you know what... .I still had chocolate chips and a handful of those is just a naked cookie! And now I have a funny joke for myself! If I ever grab a handful of chips because I can't bake a cookie, well, that's just a naked cookie! Patented recipe!  And if I don't even have the chips, I'd still laugh about it and think of it as a double naked cookie!

I know how hard the job market can be! I've had a few unexpected layoffs in the past and those were not easy! I've had health troubles at times too. After one troubling episode with my heart, once I recovered, I decided I "didn't want to go out like that" and I started training for triathlons. I wasn't ever a superstar but I loved it, and felt brave for trying, and boy was I disciplined. It was not easy to be the slowest runner, but I always told myself "I'm faster than the person who didn't get out of bed!" And that was about as fast as I ever was! So, don't worry... .take a look, find the stuff you like about you and give yourself some credit for the good things you do, no matter how small. The best thing I did today? Burn a cookie and make a joke about it that cracks me up. That's enough for today.

Take some time and appreciate stuff about yourself. What do you like most about yourself?

[5xFive]

How do you have positive self-talk when you believe the things they say?

With your example pearlsw: I wasn't treated very well recently (because I deserve this treatment). I'm awesome (says who?) I like me (but no one else does, there must be something wrong with me) I deserve a happy life (why? apparently I am a piece of poop and I deserve the treatment I receive. I have ruined his life, why do I deserve any happiness?) I'm nice, I do good things (according to h, I am selfish and cruel, and evil and hurtful, and deserve to die horribly and he is going to make sure my kids know what a horrible person I am)

How do you counter this? When you don't believe it? Maybe I'm posting on the wrong thread. Maybe I should be in conflicting, idk. But I DO want to improve my relationship. I just feel such despair when he dysregulates. Maybe it is worse now because I am isolated. That probably has a lot to do with it. But it gets worse for me everytime. I beat myself up more each time. I BELIEVE it a little more every time. I don't know how to be nice to myself anymore.

Your cookie sounds nice, maybe I will go bake some cookies and take the rest of the day off from trying to work from home. Maybe spend the afternoon with the kids.

You asked what I like about myself? I honestly can't think of anything. I used to have lists and lists of all the things that I liked about me. I remember as a kid thinking I was so blessed and I loved my life so much. Now I am miserable most days. I see success stories here and I can't help but think that we dont have one because of me. Because I am not good enough or strong enough emotionally, or im not doing enough or doing too much of the wrong thing. I guess I need to start trying a little self-love... .

Thank you Pearlsw

[pearlsw]

Hi again,

I don't want to give the impression that my husband's words have never made me feel bad, or that this relationship hasn't taken a serious toll on me at times. It has. I am familiar with both isolation and despair. But somehow, somehow, I still rise. I can't say for sure this whole thing won't destroy me in the end, but... .my typical way in life is to keep rising, and keep rising, and keep rising. At times I've felt wrecked, or felt hopeless, or felt desperately sad, but it passes... .I have a lot of other experiences to draw on in life. I have compassion for my h because I know how good it can feel to give and receive love and I have felt a lot of love in my life. I think he's had a lot of disappointment and pain in his relationships and he hasn't been able to be emotionally stable enough to enjoy them. I think he may be the one who is missing out, whose destructive illness may ultimately prevent him from having his dreams in life. Me? I'll be okay, some how, some way... .I don't know how yet, and I may get very low before I get my life back to a place I feel truly proud of, but... .where there is life there is hope. I studied history so I have all kinds of examples in my head of people overcoming things, big, big things, entire economic systems and generations of discrimination. Sometimes taking that big picture view helps me to feel less bad about my own problems in life, makes my problems seem smaller.

Remember, just because he says words does not make the words true. It's like the news. They say stuff, but it is an opinion, or a perspective. Yes, there are facts in the world, and facts are facts, but interpretations vary. In your own life... .his mean words are just, well, they are not to be taken literally. What he is really saying, if you peel it all back is "I'm hurt and I want to blame you." But none of that is fair, and you don't have to carry that on your shoulders. That is his burden in life. Don't carry it.  :)on't assist him in burying a knife in your heart. The knives may come, but you have a shield up and knives can't get through a shield right? Nope. Visualize it. Those knives, they hit the shield, but they bounce off and they break and they fall to the ground and they get washed away... .you can let them go in that way. Just a visual. Just a way to let them go.

You are not in the wrong place, and if I am upsetting you I don't mean to and I am sorry. If you want to vent then it is good to be on Conflicted. Improving is also a helpful place - it might help you think through strategies to change things.

I am not meaning to dismiss your feelings in any way just to be clear. It is totally understandable that people would believe things that people say to them. Sometimes my husband even lies to me just to hurt me. He told me recently his ex-wife was coming, presumably to stay with us. I thought that was pretty weird as I know he can't stand her. I still can't figure out why he said it. It certainly was disturbing. But it was a total lie. And he said it more than once. Oh well. I can't change his words. I have no control over the weapons he wants to use to hurt me at times, and he did want to hurt me I think. I was perplexed, and a bit insulted, but ultimately I just thought to myself, "Man, he is really over the top this time." I am not hurt by "not reality", and that was simply not reality.

Hey, and don't think that if this doesn't work it is your "fault". I am doing my best with things, and my relationship may not work out. It could end any day. I hate to think of "failure" because it is more complicated than that. I guess I say to myself "If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out." I will know I have tried my best, mistakes, imperfections and all. I know I tried my best. How do I know? Because I know. You are trying your best too on any given day, mistakes and all.

Oh yes! Give yourself more love! When you look into your children's faces take in all the joy and happiness you can and be there in just that moment. Set aside the past and don't worry about the future. Just stay in the present and enjoy the beauty in their faces and be grateful for your time with them.

Don't feel bad for feeling despair or feeling isolated. It is okay to feel your feelings.

Any ideas on how to show yourself more love?

take care, pearlsw.  

[5xFive]

Thank you pearlsw
Your replies have helped me tremendously today. I’m going to keep working on my invisible protection and try some self love.
My birthday is on Sunday so I know I have at most 2 more days of this. We’ve had a horrible couple of anniversaries the last few years, but he’s never been mean to me on my birthday so I’m hoping this year is not the first. He did dysregulate on s7s Birthday but I still have hope... .

[WitzEndWife]

I really empathize with you. I was bullied and rejected by mean kids in school, so I have a really hard time with people saying mean, untrue things to me without going into JADE mode. My husband will say awful things too, things he knows will hurt me when he's splitting.

What's helped me the most is, instead of absorbing the words and the pain that comes with them, trying to use my sensitive side to empathize with him and figure out what's really behind the mean words. It's kind of a puzzle to figure out, "What's he really saying, what's the underlying message of why he is lashing out at me."

Over the holidays we had an incident where, after Christmas, he suggested we try out our brand new toaster oven to toast bagels. So, I put the bagels in, and he set up the cutting board next to it on the counter and started cutting tomatoes. As the bagels were toasting, I thought of something I needed to check on with my phone, so I dashed into the other room, where my phone was, to check it. As soon as I'd left the room, my husband shouted angrily, "I don't know WHY you would leave the room while you have food cooking!"

I JADED: "Well, you were right there beside it, and I just needed to check something quickly."

"I still don't know WHY you would do that!" he said, furious.

I was annoyed, because he'd been nattering at me all morning about little things, so I said, "I'm tired of the complaining!"

He had a small plate in his hands after I said that, and he promptly smashed it on the floor, and left the house, coming back a minute later to keep yelling at me. He called me all sorts of B-word names, and said that, if I wouldn't be so "contemptible" that he wouldn't have to get angry. Really abusive stuff.

I kept telling him that I wasn't going to engage any longer until he'd calmed down. Finally, when he'd calmed down, it turned out that he was angry because he'd wanted us to cook together, and he felt "abandoned" when I left the room. So, here I was, thinking that he was attacking me and calling me careless (or lazy or stupid), which was hurtful, but instead he was actually upset because he felt like I was abandoning him. These are things that don't even cross our minds. So, maybe next time, I could say, "Hey, I'm going to pop into the other room to check on something for a second and I'll be right back" to prevent a blow-up. The point is though, it's never about us personally. They're just lashing out, like a traumatized dog that bites. It has nothing to do with you, it has everything to do with them.

[pearlsw]

Hi again 5xFive,

Maybe this lesson on Believing in Yourself could be helpful:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78298.0

I was just reading it and thought of you! 

and WitzEndWife, thanks for sharing that example about abandonment issues! That was really insightful!

[5xFive]

I’m going to read that now pearlsw. Thank you.
Witzendwife. Thank you for sharing. This reminded me of another post I read where someone stated that their husband felt abandoned when they fell asleep on the couch. Maybe this was you, I can’t remember. But I’ve been thinking about that a lot. Especially when I fall asleep in the middle of a movie and h gets mad. It seems like more often than not he’s mad at me for sleeping. He doesn’t understand that I simply need more sleep than he does and therefore he feels abandoned. But I can’t function on less sleep and so I get defensive and I jade and round and round we go.
I did try to put up my special crystal shield (what I learned in T) today and I noticed that I have a hard time doing this without dissociating. Which is very invalidating. In fact, I was able to let the insults roll off but I have no memory of what he was really talking about. There was no active listening on my part.
He’s been home for a while and he’s been able to smoke some weed and his mom called him. She is classic NPD/BPD but somehow he always feels better after talking to her. They talk about nothing. She talks and complains and he validated her and tells her how great she is and somehow he always feels better after these conversations. So I’m hoping the evening is calmer. But there is always tomorrow. He has to work again and this sets him off nearly every day.
Any suggestions about how I can actively listen and still protect myself without zoning out completely? I’d love to learn if any of you have advice about this.

[Radcliff]

Hello 5xFive,

I know you are busting your tail these days.  I am sorry it is not going well!

He’s sending me hurtful texts but I’m not allowed to reply back via text.

Wait, help me understand.  Who doesn't allow you?  You are working from home, so you don't have any work rules.  He is allowed to text you from work, so presumably you texting him doesn't get him in trouble.  Is it his rule?

I called him and he didn’t answer but he texted me back that he has dog poop on his shoe and the dog poop is more important to him than I am. Do I just ignore this type of comment?

Hmm... .my immediate response to whether you should ignore his poop comment is... .Sh*t yes!  You should ignore it!  If you respond and are nice you reward him.  If you're snippy you're likely to be JADEing.  Any response, you lose.  Any response, you're allowing a boundary violation.  I have to admit, when my wife fires one of those zingers, I feel almost a physical urge to respond.  We have to respond to all messages if we are a respectful partner, right?  Actually, no!  The times when I've caught myself, and with great effort managed to just not respond to total garbage, I was so happy.  It was liberating.  And, there's a very good chance he won't challenge you and say, "Why didn't you respond to my message where I said I liked dog poop more than you?"  And if he does, say, "I'm so sorry, honey, I didn't think you were expecting a response."

Since I am not allowed to text back, I normally call him and try to talk to him. This often happens when he is at work because he hates his job and he blames me. If he doesn't answer, I typically try to forget about it. Sometimes he gets busy and a couple of hours will go by. Then he will start texting me again. If I don't call him, then I "lost" my chance to have him in my life.

As it happens, I met with my therapist this morning, and my wife's therapist this afternoon.  One of the things that came up in both meetings is how, in the name of love, I have been trying to soothe my wife's emotions for a couple of decades -- getting sucked into her demands that I make everything OK for her.  Not only have I almost destroyed myself in the process, but I've also robbed her a chance of learning to soothe herself.  Now, I'm not sure my wife would have learned to do it, and I can't promise your husband would, but at the very least you'd be offering him the chance and saving yourself from suffering for something that shouldn't be your responsibility.

From your posts over the last few months, I know how much you care for him, and I know you don't want him to suffer.  And I know from personal experience that a "rescue" where you can make things all better for your spouse feels so good.  But imagine what it might look like if you established a boundary here.  Perhaps you don't respond at all to rages like that.  Perhaps you have a stock response that validates -- "Honey, I am so sorry you're upset -- I'm looking forward to seeing you tonight and let's talk about it."  Then you're done and can worry about working from home, the baby, whatever.  But voice calls can be so exhausting with someone who is dysregulating, and such a waste of time and energy.  Also, he should be focusing on work.  Let us know that answer about why you aren't allowed to text him back.

If I don't call him, then I "lost" my chance to have him in my life. I try not to defend, I try to stay calm but it's so hard.

Oh yes, it is so hard.  We say to depersonalize, and that is excellent advice, but so hard to follow sometimes.  We are giving our all, grownups parenting the same kids, and we get breakup threats?  As pearlsw said, it is completely childish, but it hurts so much!  I've never had great success making these things not hurt.  I guess my best answer is that developing stronger boundaries in other areas (like not responding to insulting texts) can help us feel more self respect, and stronger, so that we are better able to withstand the other stuff.  Think about the total weight of garbage hanging over you and try to lighten your load in the areas you think you can have the best success.

He is mad at me today because I overslept. He relies on me to massage his neck and shoulders in the morning to get him ready for the day. He has neck problems and he says this is the only way that he can start his day. I overslept today and then the baby woke up and I was nursing her and I didn't go rub him. He got mad because he accuses me of not being consistent. I can't help but feel defensive about this. I over-freaking-slept!

Oh my god, you are a freaking rock star!
       
What I would give for a woman to rub my neck to send me out into the world on a rough day.  He is such a lucky man.  You are nursing a baby!  For you to want him to appreciate what you're doing 90% of the time and cut you slack 10% of the time -- totally reasonable, but not likely.  He says you're not consistent.  Well, he's right, though neither is the baby   But for him, this is upsetting, and he isn't able to make that connection that it's not a personal betrayal, that you're tending a baby that you both share.  Just not in his toolkit.  Best idea I can think of is to have a ready, validating response, one you don't have to think of too hard in your exhausted state.  Something like, "I'm so sorry hon, I'll give you a double rub tomorrow morning," or "I'm so sorry, hon, would you like your favorite dinner tonight?"  The trick here is that you are validating his feelings with your statement, but you are not taking responsibility for settling his emotions.  You don't have to keep pouring it on until he's happy -- that would be invalidating to you.  The short response gives him a little something without sucking too much out of you.  :)oes that sound potentially useful?  Sorry I'm using so many words, it's late, and when I'm tired I go on and on

So now he is saying that he is going to get himself an apartment. This doesn't even make sense since he says he wants to leave our state. It isn't rational and I want to question it. Instead, when he says he doesn't want to be near me, I replied that that hurts me. He then accuses me of being selfish. Now I know that was the wrong response. It is lose/lose. I honestly just want to turn off my phone until he decides to come home. I feel like a failure every time he TELLS me I have failed him.

You are not a failure.  You are a rock star   Hmm... .turn off the phone, that's an interesting idea.  Yup, you know having a reasonable conversation with him about this is not going to happen.  One thing I've started to do when my wife is exhausting me is to block her number for an hour or two, set my phone timer, and unblock her when the timer dings.  It buys me some breathing room.  The baby wouldn't stop crying.  Then your mother called.  Then you were on the phone with a potential client.  Hey, is the term "Ferberize" still used when talking about getting babies to go to sleep alone?  Back in the day, when our girls were young, this was the term for gradually increasing the amount of time you'd let the baby cry before going to soothe them to sleep.  Think of this as spousal Ferberization

The worst is when he tells me that he wishes I would die. Honestly, I just want to curl up into a ball and cry. How can I love someone who says something like this to me? I don’t understand and I don’t know what skill or tool I can use in this situation.

5xFive, this one catches my attention.  I and many of us know from personal experience how much something like this hurts.  My soul just aches thinking of the things my wife has said that someone should never say to someone who loves them.  I could tell you to depersonalize this, but being a decade or two older than you, and understanding the cumulative effect of things that make you want to curl up into a ball and cry, perhaps this is a place where you want to make a stand.  I'm not sure when he is saying this.  The context might determine your response.  The important thing is to think about what behavior you could do that would help you preserve some self-respect.  If he's saying it by text, perhaps ignoring the text gives you a feeling of control and self respect.  If he says it in bed, perhaps sleeping on the couch or somewhere else makes you feel better (if you do that, don't try to do it dramatically to make a point, it's for your benefit, not for his, so say something like your hurting and need some space, not that he's an *ss).  :)on't take my ideas necessarily -- figure out what makes you feel like you're treating yourself with respect.  Maybe take waitingwife's suggestion and say, ""Hey, I'm going to pop into the other room to check on something for a second and I'll be right back" so it's not even about him at all but you can feel control that you got yourself away from the nastiness.  Remember that the consequence of his behavior needs to be relevant -- for example, he hurt you now, so you need some space, not he hurt you now, so he can eat brussell sprouts on his birthday.  I'll copy my standard link paragraph on boundaries below (understanding you may have hit one or more of these links already):

To learn more about boundaries, you might want to visit this page on setting boundaries, this thread on scripts for setting boundaries, and this thread on boundary setting examples.

I read your replies to pearlsw's questions about self esteem.  Your employer told you in your exit interview that your work was exceptional but that you had too many home problems?  Ouch!  That's good to understand where you could have done better.  We all can learn lessons.  But almost certainly you are being too hard on yourself.  It's possible to own what you could have done better while also being compassionate enough with yourself to acknowledge the ridiculous load you were under.  It was not fair for you to have to contend with him calling your work.  Or many other things I'm sure.

You haven't talked very much about your family of origin.  Keeping in mind that I'm no expert at all, I think you might find some good insights about self esteem if you think about the messages you were receiving or the things that were going on when you were growing up.  Totally OK to talk about that here now if you want, or not, whatever is right for you now.

I just so badly want to feel loved and the only time I truly feel loved is when I am spending time with my kids. But then sometimes I find myself questioning myself. Am I expecting too much from my children? Am I going to make them as screwed up as I feel most days?

Just recently I was feeling pretty down and felt an urge to turn to my kids for support.  The test I use is if something is going to benefit the kids and I equally, or mostly the kids, I go with it.  If it's more for me than them, I put the brakes on and tell myself to look for support elsewhere.  If I need a hug but the kid wants to play, I do without.  But if you're having a blast together, go for it!  One of the things that I appreciate most about my wife, and I think is one of her greatest gifts to them, is when she creates happy times, fun adventures, and memories with them.

How do you counter this? When you don't believe it? Maybe I'm posting on the wrong thread. Maybe I should be in conflicting, idk. But I DO want to improve my relationship. I just feel such despair when he dysregulates. Maybe it is worse now because I am isolated. That probably has a lot to do with it. But it gets worse for me everytime. I beat myself up more each time. I BELIEVE it a little more every time. I don't know how to be nice to myself anymore.

5xFive, you belong here.  I've read your posts on using the tools, I've read your posts on the victories you've scored through validation.  We all feel despair sometimes.  This stuff is tough, messy, and oh so discouraging.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your isolation comment.  That's a big red flag.  Especially with losing the validation from your job, you are at risk.  :)efinitely the kids are one source -- you can't ask them to validate you, but seeing them respond positively to your mothering is a great source of validation.  :)o you have any other sources of support?  Is your mother able to support you?  :)o you have friends you can eat lunch with?  Any chances to get involved with mother's groups or play groups with the baby now that you've got more flexibility during the day?  What can you do to diversify your sources of support, to get people in your life who are giving you positive messages?

You asked what I like about myself? I honestly can't think of anything. I used to have lists and lists of all the things that I liked about me. I remember as a kid thinking I was so blessed and I loved my life so much. Now I am miserable most days. I see success stories here and I can't help but think that we dont have one because of me. Because I am not good enough or strong enough emotionally, or im not doing enough or doing too much of the wrong thing. I guess I need to start trying a little self-love... .

I have been having some negative self talk recently that I know in my head is silly and not supported by the facts, but I still can't stop it!

I am so sorry to hear all of this.  You've lost sight of what you like about yourself, you're miserable and have lost the zest for life.  This isn't about anything you're doing wrong -- I think anyone facing the load you are dealing with would feel the same way.

You think you don't have a success story because you're not trying hard enough, or are not doing the right things.  I don't know enough about psychology to say why this makes total sense to me, but I get it.  For some reason we're wired to think it's our fault.  I have felt the exact same way sometimes.  Keep looking at the facts, even if it doesn't help the first time, or the second.  I know your doubts will fight the facts (mine do) but think about all you're doing.  Good grief, I barely know you and I've seen so much.  You are here.  You are learning.  You are being intentional and fighting to improve, not just blindly going through life like so many people do.  You are taking care of your kids.  You are supporting a sometimes difficult husband.  You are dealing with hurricanes!  You are starting a business.  So maybe the answer to how to believe self-love statements like "I am good" is to think about all the actions, all the ways you are showing that you are good.

Don't forget to tell us why you're not allowed to respond to texts, that part was confusing.  And absolutely do not respond to any texts about poop!  

OK, hopefully I didn't put you to sleep with this ridiculously wordy post!  You are doing awesome.  How is working from home going?  

WW

[5xFive]

WW
Thank you for your well thought reply. I do want to reply in turn. We’re in another down cycle today (I posted this one in conflicted) so I don’t have a lot of time to respond. The phone and computer trigger him. But I wanted to reply to your question about the texting.
I am not allowed to text him is HIS rule. He says it gives him anxiety. He works in the field in a truck and he can’t read them. But he can talk to text. So he texts me sometimes 50 times in a row and I’m supposed to call him in response. He NEVER calls me. But when I do call, he either ignores my call or answers and hangs up on me. He takes away my voice so I end up texting him just to be HEARD. I don’t know why I need to be heard so badly. But it inevitably sets him off because when I text (it doesn’t matter how long I go without texting) I am breaking a promise to him. I don’t remember promising not to text but there are time that I feel like I promise anything just to get him to stop screaming at me so I probably did.
So he says really ignorant things and I’m supposed to know that means to call. When I don’t call, I “never do the right thing” (his words).

[hope2727]

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I am not with my pwBPD anymore so take it with a grain of salt but I found the most effective response was short and to the point.

"Wow, how rude!"

"Wow that really hurts my feelings!"

"Wow I am deeply offended!"

Then I would just be silent. Let that sit awhile. I often found it was effective.

[Chosen]

The worst is when he tells me that he wishes I would die. Honestly, I just want to curl up into a ball and cry. How can I love someone who says something like this to me? I don’t understand and I don’t know what skill or tool I can use in this situation.

Just want to say that I have been in your shoes numerous times.  He would even go as far to say I didn't go and die because I don't love him enough and I'm a coward.  Yes this is one of the most hurtful things a loved one can say to us, and from personal experience, I don't think there is a way to respond without you crying.  It is completely normal, because we desperately hope that our loved one would take back what they say, would tell us something different.  But they never would, because to them that feeling is very real!  And we all know crying and begging in front of a pwBPD gets us nowhere. 

Also, you mentioned that you have a need to be heard.  Can I just say "me too"?  I find that I have this problem, and most times it would lead to JADEing because I wish to have the final word.  I don't like to be misunderstood.  I don't like it when people put their thoughts into my mouth and misinterpret them.  BUT I now realise that nothing I say will change anything- if he wants to "misinterpret" me, or claim I said something in the wrong tone, etc, it's up to him.  It's NOT because I said it wrong.  It's NOT because he misunderstood me.  It IS because he needed to make up something in the back of him mind to support his feelings (of being angry with me). 

And if you're anything like me (I hope you're not though... .), whatever you say at that point will most likely being negative impact on the issue rather than help.  Sorry I'm not of much help and didn't really give you advice on what to do.  I'm just sharing my personal experience to let you know that you are not alone, and that there is perhaps a better way of dealing with your inner emotions.  Taking care of your own emotional health is very important.  Our pwBPDs need an emotionally stable person to "ground" them (not so much help them, but let them deal with their own emotions); and that means sometimes (ok, most times) we need to give up our own emotional needs in order to put the needs of the relationship/ their emotional needs first. 

So in the end, I would just probably say "ok", then try to detach mentally as much as possible.  Try to rationalise things in my mind, telling myself "obviously he doesn't want me to die.  He wishes this problem which I probably contributed to/ I am a part of would disappear, and to him the most straightforward way is for me to disappear.  He just doesn't know how to express it". 

[Radcliff]

5xFive,

Are there ever times when you are able to have constructive communication with him when he is at work?  If so, what does that look like and when does it happen?

Are there any issues that come up during his work shift that in your mind *must* be dealt with during his shift?

WW

[5xFive]

Thank you for all of your replies. I do see the need to JADE when he says hurtful things. Or misunderstands me. Today he tells me that if we do not move by the end of the month, he is going to kill himself (I read about these threats in the skills workshop but I’m still not sure how to react in a supportive way). Then he goes on to say that I need to tell his family the truth, that there were signs for the last 5 years but he doesn’t believe that I will. Then he goes on to say after that that he’s going to write letters to the kids to open when they are adults, but he doesn’t believe I will give them to them. I mean, it’s ridiculous to me. If you want your family to know that you’re hurting, you TELL them. But his family is hard to talk to. His dad is completely detached and his mom (I’m pretty sure) suffers from NPD/BPD.

5xFive,

Are there ever times when you are able to have constructive communication with him when he is at work?  If so, what does that look like and when does it happen?

Are there any issues that come up during his work shift that in your mind *must* be dealt with during his shift?

WW

WW,

I don’t think we can ever have constructive conversations when he is at work. When he’s in a good place, I typically don’t hear from him. It’s only when he is dysregulating that he texts and texts and texts. It give me anxiety. Especially because I have learned that nothing I say is going to help. But I can’t text back so I call. But when I call, I don’t have anything to say so I either say: I don’t know what to say, or I’m silent. Which makes him mad so he hangs up on me and then the texts start again.

No. To me, there is nothing that *must* be dealt with. But to him, it is urgent and can not wait until he feels better or he’s home.

I think am going to set a boundary for myself (if that makes sense). Even if I NEED to be heard, I’m not going to text back. If he sends me an ignorant text, I will try to see if it is coming from a place of hurt and if I think it is, I will call ONCE to try to give him support. If he rages at me and hangs up on me, I will not call him back or reply via text. This is going to be very difficult for me but I think it is the only way that I will not JADE.

I also need to work on not letting it affect my entire day. I tend to disappear into myself when he dysregulates and I feel like I fail as a mother and at my work and at my housekeeping. Meaning I don’t get anything done bc I’m so wrapped up in HIM.

[5xFive]

30 inbound texts in 1.5 hrs. I replied with 8 calls and the longest lasted 42 seconds.
It has now been 30 mins since he last texted and I have this irrational urge to call him. What in the world? Am I looking for a fight? Why do I feel this need? I’m not going to call him. I’m posting here instead but sheesh. I’m surprised by myself and I can see how this need to be, idk, right? Heard? Idk but I can see how it can trigger and escalate. I’m going to stick to my own boundary and see what happens today... .

[snowglobe]

If you want your family to know that you’re hurting, you TELL them. But his family is hard to talk to. His dad is completely detached and his mom (I’m pretty sure) suffers from NPD/BPD.


No. To me, there is nothing that *must* be dealt with. But to him, it is urgent and can not wait until he feels better or he’s home.


I also need to work on not letting it affect my entire day. I tend to disappear into myself when he dysregulates and I feel like I fail as a mother and at my work and at my housekeeping. Meaning I don’t get anything done bc I’m so wrapped up in HIM.

Dear @5*those passages to comment on,
He is telling you that he is hurting and he wants you to let his foo know. He can’t do it himself, because is he could, he would have done it already. You answered yourself, that his father is detached and mother is possibly BPD or npd, which means his emotional growth and attachment style has been retarded at some point. You just need to figure out the “emotional age” of your uBPDh. I would caution you against getting involved in this triangle, you can’t win this one. If you do get the message across, there is a possibility that you will end up being blamed for all of his misses and misfortune not only by your uBPDh but also his foo. After all in order for their triangle to strengthen, they need a third party. Let him taking matters into his hands if he wants to share, which is questionable. I was in the similar setuation before, and by getting involved I became a “scapegoat” to al of my uBPDh’s problems, until I took myself out of it.

Regarding the “urgency” to figure things out on the spot, this one is much simpler, he is hurting so much so, that it’s tipping over. He can’t control his emotions and needs a mirror to see just how badly he is hurting. When you do become a mirror of his pain, looking at you makes him feel better, elated even. He is then able to compare himself to your feelings, which makes him feel that things aren’t as bad after all.

Your last comment is very close to my heart, just like you, I’m suffering from a crippling anxiety and become a shell of myself when he is dysregulating. I’m not productive in my own world, because I’m so involved in solving his drama. I become a distant parent, because I don’t share my struggles with kids, when they ask me what’s wrong, I try to cover up for him or remove them from setuation. I become so numb that I stop feeling, like a deer in headlights I’m waiting on it to be over. It’s not a productive way of living, I know. So I picked up this book “stop caretaking of borderline narcissist”, it shed some light on my life. I encourage you to pick up this book as well, you will find many answers to your questions

[snowglobe]

30 inbound texts in 1.5 hrs. I replied with 8 calls and the longest lasted 42 seconds.
It has now been 30 mins since he last texted and I have this irrational urge to call him. What in the world? Am I looking for a fight? Why do I feel this need? I’m not going to call him. I’m posting here instead but sheesh. I’m surprised by myself and I can see how this need to be, idk, right? Heard? Idk but I can see how it can trigger and escalate. I’m going to stick to my own boundary and see what happens today... .

I recognize this need in me too, when my uBPDh dusregulates I go out of limb to try and calm him, hoping that it will be better when he is home with me and the kids. I realize that I also get some transference effect, I just need him to calm down. Never works for me, same as yelling at a toddler on the floor in a supermarket. He just yells right back even harder. Standing there quirky watching him to exhaust himself always works. Please, keep us update on your progress

[5xFive]

Thanks Snowglobe.
I am going to look into that book right away. It didn’t last long. He texted me that the people at work are noticing his depression. I heard the pain so I called him. He told me that I don’t love him bc we are here. If I loved him, I would have shown it by leaving here. Then he screamed (in his broken lost voice - since he lost it from screaming at me on Saturday) that he wants a divorce.
Then 7 texts in a row about what a pos I am and how he’s coming after me for the kids and he hopes I’m ready. And how my actions show that I don’t love him OR our kids. THIS this is where I want to respond. To defend myself. To make him see how I feel. But I’m not going to do it today. He can say these hateful things about divorce but I’m not going there. About taking the kids from me, I have pages and pages of texts and all of my posts on here that document the abuse I receive from him. While I worry, I’m not so worried about that. When it comes to the kids, he doesn’t spend more than 5-10 mins before he hands them off to me. Idk why he thinks he could care for them full time.
The one thing that he always goes back to when he threatens divorce is how I’m going to have to testify about my lies to him. Like moving to a place that he said he wanted to move to but now doesn’t want to be and buying a house together, hunting and signing papers etc but that now makes him feel trapped were me lying to him. It’s not rational. Right? I question everything. Idk anything anymore.

[snowglobe]

Dear @5*Five,
This isn’t anything that you’ve caused and not something you can fix, he is bringing kids into this splitting because it’s the fastest route to hurt you and get a proportional reaction. Like a mother bear we have an innate instinct to protect our own from danger. You view his words as danger thus responding. He is successful in his attempts to dusregulates. Now imagine a person at the psychiatric ward yelling to you blah blah, I’m Napoleon, blah blah, you never ... .you always... .eat a sausage... .I will take your kids away... .” get the picture?. Different reality. Your response, only in person or on the phone, not via text (very concerned and gentle tone, as validating as you possibly can) “I am worried about you (support), I can see you are greatly hurting (empathy), and I know you love our kids so much so, that you will do everything you can and necessary for them to be ok (truth). See how you just validated his feelings and turned the table?

[5xFive]

I’m not sure I did the SET properly. He got really mad again and hung up on me. Then sent me several texts about what a stupid f&$ing b**h I am and what a filthy f-ing c**t.
I sent him the following text (first text today):
I am not going to be called names. I will unblock you in 10 mins.

And then I blocked him for 10 mins. Should I have worded that differently? Or should I have simply put my phone away?

When I unblocked him, he texted me that he slit his wrists. When I called him and told him that I am calling 911, he told me that he lied about that. Then he went into how I left him all alone in his pain when I blocked him and how he hates me. Then he called me (he never calls me, this was new) and said that what I did was wrong and he hates me.

Truth is, I feel bad that he is so upset. But he has not called me another name... ?

Can you advise me on how to set this boundary properly in the future? And how to soothe him when he feels abandoned by it?