Bracing for the next break up threat

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey all,

He's back tomorrow from an unexpected away kid's visit... .It's been nearly two weeks since he's had a chance to break up with me - he's been pretty busy and I've been away - though it does not always stop him I must say. I have felt much more physically at ease without him around - less anxiety and stress and my heart is not jumping from his panicky ways and the shock and trauma of it all.

I am expecting another threat (or real one?) this week or the week after by the latest... .I want to think I won't find myself "begging" him not to just because facing that level of loss/finality is so painful for me when I lose any relationship... .

I am afraid I am so used to keeping it together that I'll naturally fall right into that as if it was the first time I've heard it. I'll feel caught off guard and I'll naturally start my saving script. I am tired of saving... .it makes me feel rejected (though I can get over that fine) and it is incredibly painful and it breaks the bonds between us (this is the most serious part). My feelings for him now are closer to boredom and annoyance though I'm a bit of a softie and can be "won over" by humor and anything that feels like "normalcy" - fleeting as that is. If we are together I  have to dig deep to find a way back to love when he ruined the whole holiday season and even my funeral stuff... .He wants to provide emotional support - but it always comes back to him. He's not good at it and wants me to teach him... .but... .

So, let's say he does it... .If I just say "okay" I'd have 1-3 months while that gets sorted and I could be back on the way to my home country... .I don't know how else to put a stop to this behavior.

I know it's silly at this point, but I still wish he could be calm and balanced for longer periods so we could have a chance to get along like I'd like... .to see what we could really be like... .I would care for him through an illness, I would, that's what you sign up for, but the breakups majorly damaged the whole thing (me especially) and I don't know how to make it work because that piece never goes away. I can't take the threats anymore - they are too much stress and too much hopelessness for me.

[pearlsw]

Hey all,

He's back tomorrow from an unexpected away kid's visit... .It's been nearly two weeks since he's had a chance to break up with me - he's been pretty busy and I've been away - though it does not always stop him I must say. I have felt much more physically at ease without him around - less anxiety and stress and my heart is not jumping from his panicky ways and the shock and trauma of it all.

I am expecting another threat (or real one?) this week or the week after by the latest... .I want to think I won't find myself "begging" him not to just because facing that level of loss/finality is so painful for me when I lose any relationship... .

I am afraid I am so used to keeping it together that I'll naturally fall right into that as if it was the first time I've heard it. I'll feel caught off guard and I'll naturally start my saving script. I am tired of saving... .it makes me feel rejected (though I can get over that fine) and it is incredibly painful and it breaks the bonds between us (this is the most serious part). My feelings for him now are closer to boredom and annoyance though I'm a bit of a softie and can be "won over" by humor and anything that feels like "normalcy" - fleeting as that is. If we are together I  have to dig deep to find a way back to love when he ruined the whole holiday season and even my funeral stuff... .He wants to provide emotional support - but it always comes back to him. He's not good at it and wants me to teach him... .but... .

So, let's say he does it... .If I just say "okay" I'd have 1-3 months while that gets sorted and I could be back on the way to my home country... .I don't know how else to put a stop to this behavior.

I know it's silly at this point, but I still wish he could be calm and balanced for longer periods so we could have a chance to get along like I'd like... .to see what we could really be like... .I would care for him through an illness, I would, that's what you sign up for, but the breakups majorly damaged the whole thing (me especially) and I don't know how to make it work because that piece never goes away. I can't take the threats anymore - they are too much stress and too much hopelessness for me.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

Pearls, this is the improving board, so it is difficult to make "natural consequence" suggestions. However, I think we can say that while the posters here wish to stay together and improve their relationships, the other person always has a choice to either improve or not, or to stay or to leave.

We can not control someone else. I think many of our attempts to stop a possible separation involve enabling and caretaking behaviors- to try to keep things calm and the relationship together but in the long run these behaviors may perpetuate drama.

And on the other hand, stopping the enabling, holding boundaries may be what is needed to stop the drama-and yet this may also pose  a risk to the relationship as the other person may not like it- and that person can make his/her own choices.

Kind of ironic that what could possibly lead to improvement may also possibly lead to the relationship ending.

You know how to temporarily soothe the break up threats- with the begging, the fixing, the saving and yet, you also feel this diminishes your own self respect. Also when we reinforce behaviors, they are likely to happen again.

Why is it this man threatens divorce but doesn't follow through. I don't know if your "saving" behaviors are the reason, or if they just are the attention he wants to get from the behavior- ie he doesn't want to leave but if he threatens it, he gets all kinds of emotional goodies from you to entice him to stay. Is it the leaving he wants or your behavior when he threatens?

IMHO, if he really wanted to leave no matter what, he would leave. However, I think it is good to refrain from mind reading.

Are you ready to not react either way? On one hand you could do the begging or pleading and the other hand, just say OK and leave yourself. But both decisions are a reaction to his behavior. Instead, how about responding from your true self? You say you don't want to do what you have been doing. I agree that it is hard to stop habitual behavior. In a way your trying to resist this is as tough as an alcoholic resisting a drink that someone puts in front of him. The difference now is that you are aware that you want to stop.

So he threatens, you go about your business like you do every day. Will he follow through? who knows. Will you leave- if that is what it comes to in your heart to do, that is a choice. Each of you has a choice. Not knowing his choice isn't easy, but if you decide not to react to him, and pay attention to your feelings- knowing you can't control him, perhaps what to do will become clearer in time.

[BasementDweller]

Hi, Pearl -

This post is a couple of days old, but how are you doing over there?

I know that it has been a bit of a roller coaster ride, and there were many times in the past where I was worrying and waiting for my dBPDbf's next outburst, break-up threat, or tantrum, just as you are. Sometimes there was no real reason for my fears other than I knew he was unpredictable, and anything could happen. Eventually I began to realize that all his demands for me to "get out and leave me alone" were a defense mechanism that he never, ever tried to act on. He never took any measures to break up with me for real, or start seeing someone else, or take action to make me leave. Now that we are making progress in therapy, he's admitted that those behaviors were a bit of a test to see if I would really leave, or perhaps to save himself the pain of me leaving unexpectedly. He also said it was a panic response when the bickering got too stressful. I have been through legit break-ups, and they don't look like the "BPD break-up." A genuine break-up is decided upon, and then one or both parties take active measures to terminate the relationship. One person moves out, or asks the other to move out and actually means it, and a plan is put into action. BPD's are very good at acting on emotion and saying hurtful things they do not mean, and do not follow through on. It's lashing out, but it is often NOT an action plan. How many people on this board have a BPD partner who dramatically threatens divorce repeatedly for years on end, but doesn't lift a finger to initiate the process? Someone who genuinely wants a divorce seeks, and initiates one. Actively.

I would suggest to try to stay busy and focused on your own self-care and not worry too much about an event that hasn't occured yet. (This time.) I think there is some truth in the suggestion that he wants attention for this behavior, and it's more about that than REALLY wanting to break-up. Go about your business, try to use the tools about not JADE-ing, and do your best to validate in a calm and somewhat distant way if he starts getting fussy. "I can understand that you seem stressed. That's not a good place to be, huh?"

If he does the ol' - "I want to break up, get out!"

Just try, "You seem to be upset right now. I hear you. Why don't I give you some space?" And then just go in another room and do something else. I would be curious to see what happened if you stopped engaging, acknowledged that he appears stressed, but do not indulge the fatalistic behavior in any way. Like mom ignoring the screaming, prostrate toddler in the supermarket. Eventually they realize they have lost their audience, and get tired. ;-) Your husband has become so accustomed to you "saving things" that he expects it, and knows he can act in a childish hurtful way, and you are the one who will do damage control after.

I wish I had known more about BPD and these tactics two years ago. It would have saved both myself and my partner a lot of stress and heart-ache. Once I started using them on a regular basis, it was a very fast game changer.

It may be worth a try to switch gears next time he gets difficult. Lightly validate in a very calm tone, and stop there. If he persists, extract yourself in a calm way. Do nothing to coddle him. Let him "stew in his juices" for a while, as the saying goes. ;-)

How are you feeling now?

[pearlsw]

Hi Notwendy and Basement Dweller,

Sorry if I can't get to all your points in this pass. Time and access to the site is limited for me... and I need to get a little more of me out... .I am craving understanding... .It seems so illusive anywhere I turn... .

He's been calm since he got back. Because he has said so many times, while dysregulating, that this side of him is "fake" and "he doesn't love me", etc. it is hard to entirely relax. It is hard not to feel confused.

No matter how many times I hear this stuff... .it is hard not to live as a person in touch with reality. I mean. I hear what he says, I think he means it. Black or white.

We are easing our way back into conversation. I am hesitant to bring up anything too emotional because I simply cannot take more bombs going off with his emotional state.

We have had had some short moments where his shame and guilt over how he's been the last month or so come out... .Oh, and he's dreaming up all kinds of ways to "make it up to me" - trips, treats, etc. For him the relationship just picks up as usual and goes on when he needs/wants it can function in it to the degree he is capable... .

I must say I am shocked. I mean I was pressured along on trips to his lawyer to discuss settlement stuff, I was told repeatedly to "prepare to leave", he even suggested I get a divorce while in the US right after the funeral I attended (and this in the calmer tail end of things before my trip), etc., etc., etc. It was relentless and extreme and totally believable and now suddenly, poof, not even a topic of conversation.

I feel okay. I am more upset over stuff with my family and a little back and forth with my aunt over it I'm having. I am trying not to catastrophize myself about my family. Not let myself think my three maternal aunts will hate me forever and that my family is again "dead" for me. But they do hold grudges and lack empathy and understanding for other's points of view. I mean I think they "hate" me for being nice to people they hate on behalf of their mom... .It pulls the rug out from under me a bit as they were some of the options for a break from my overseas life that I'd finally found... .Castles made of sand I suppose... .if they fell that fast... So, alone again... .but I will mentally regroup and charge back at this. I need a solid back up plan.

Anyway, he and I both agreed that the days I was away and the days he was were good for us, though perhaps for different reasons.

I am going to take my time rethinking what love means to me, what I want out of a relationship, how much effort I want/have left to put into relationships now or in the future, what a happy life for me would look like. I already feel like I can't think again with him around as his stuff is so big. His emotional states take up so much of our lives.

I was thinking on the train just now that I would not leave him or anyone if they were disabled, or run of the mill difficult, but the hardest part for me is his emotional fluctuations limit my sense of a future and limit my ability to fully function in my own life. They limit my capacity for success and fulfilling various dreams I'd like to explore. I am sure I could do many wonderful things in life alone or with a supportive partner... .And it is not that he is not supportive, but he is so highly disruptive and unstable.

I am quite certain this will be decided by the anniversary of our contractual stuff with each other. I hesitate to call it a marriage. It has never been one. It was more something we had to do, too soon, to be in the same country in order to see what was possible for us... .in terms of shared definitions, dreams... .I am having trouble lately even recovering what those shared dreams were... .

[Notwendy]

Is he threatening divorce or does he want one?

I get the sense that you are assuming it is his BPD speaking when he brings it up, but if he did want one, what is stopping him from following through? He has a lawyer and has brought you to negotiations. What would have to be done on his part for this to actually happen?

I guess what I am asking is- can he do this without you, or does he need your agreement?

If this is inappropriate for the improving board, I don't mean it to be a run message. I am trying to figure out what your H needs to do to follow through on his threat. It's one thing to threaten and not follow through, but if he can not follow through without your agreement, I think it may help to know what he really wants.

He may have BPD but he still is legally competent to make his own choices.

[BasementDweller]

Notwendy makes a good point as well. It's important to determine what both of you really want. Is he acting out but does't really want a divorce or a break-up? Is it possible he does? And what do you want? It sounds as if you may not be sure you want to save this any longer. Not suggesting a run message either - just that some further self-evaluation might be needed here. You have suggested that you might be getting to the end of your rope as well in some of your posts. I wish you well, and hope you are able to work toward the best possible solution for you both - whatever that may be.   

[pearlsw]

other random stuff in my head today:

1. he was also talking about killing himself. he discovered a new method he’s intrigued by. he wants to get out of his pain. he holds on for his kids.

2. me: i’m so tired of having my kindnesses and just who i am weaponized against me. both he and even my family are doing this right now. it is so strange to watch people going out of their way to hurt me and ensure that i have no family in life.

3. all i need is a small drop of kindness. even the guard at the location i am working at today was tossing out negative energy at me. just one smile from a stranger would turn today around…

4. i wish i could just go sit under a tree and hear some birds. but it’s very cold all around me and spring is a long way off. again i must retreat to my inner world and make it into my own sanctuary. i am going to fill it with flowers and birds and let all of this go. tomorrow could be better... .and today isn't over... .just a little window shopping at the train station or the upcoming walk along the train track could help... .i will find my small joys... .

[pearlsw]

Hi Basement Dweller,

Yes, I was so determined to improve things and so single-minded about it, but after seeing my holidays totally wrecked and what a disappointment our life together is... .and the only one who can make any of this better is me... .I am contemplating where to put my energies... .I am in and out of being present... .feeling an urge today suddenly to hide myself in one of the foreign languages I am studying and just get a total head change there... .Hearing the language again yesterday after some time of it was very comforting... .It's hard because I really never let myself entertain the idea of a divorce until the days before I took my trip... .But now... .he forced me to think about it. To contemplate, entertain, enjoy and revel in it to a degree... .and now I am so far away in my heart and I am not sure if I should let him have me back again... .

He is planning nice things for me today... .but the nicest thing would be to never hear another threat. I have to put a stop to these threats... .and to me, real breakups. I didn't feel with him these last weeks given the barrage of negativity and end of the relationship talk... .I was very far away from him... .and now here I am again being asked, being pulled back in and I don't want to lose my balance... .We did have some laughs over it... .my humor always saves me... .but... .still... .I see that to go forward I really need to set up something quite elaborate that addresses ALL of the issues and stops brushing things under the rug... .His emotions rule over everything no matter how hard I try... .it like "fighting" the tides... .

I am still not all the way back here after my trip... .and now he is trying to set up another one within the next month and I my have a solo one in the month after that... .or I may be moving back to my home country... .I just feel pulled in so many directions... .But I guess quiet time alone... .I wish he wasn't so opposed to me getting the neutral third party help that I set up for me to think things through... .Last night he said he tossed and turned having a nightmare that I'd left him... .

more later when i can... .

thanks for reading... .

[pearlsw]

I am a bit torn between here and conflicted, but I am posting here because no matter what I have a mindset geared towards improving - together or alone - my life has to get better. It doesn't have to be great but just better.

[Notwendy]

Hi Pearls. Not trying to push you in either direction. I can tell you are not all back yet from a difficult trip. What I am asking is the legal steps for a divorce in his country.

He threatens, he has a lawyer, are their papers? Can he unilaterally do it, or do both of you have to agree?

How far along is he in this process? I am trying to figure out a timeline. Is it just that he has to sign some papers or do you have to sign too. Can either of you do this unilaterally.

This is important because someone who just talks and doesn't act may not mean it, but someone who threatens, has a lawyer, and has papers waiting to be served or signed, has done a lot more action towards this process than someone who just talks about it.

From experience- my BPD mother threatened divorce several times and my father considered it, but there was no action from that. Even if they had a lawyer- no separation, no living apart, no pursuing it. That was just talk. Someone who has retained a lawyer, moved out, has papers is also putting actions to words. What is or are the steps your H would take to complete this if he chose to?

[Notwendy]

Maybe it would help to post on one thread- just improving or conflicted. No run messages on either board but the ability to discuss all options.

I think what I am trying to discern from your situation is- what are the facts of both options. The feelings are all over the place for both of you. That is understandable and would be for most people in your situation. But there are also facts.

I am not contemplating divorce, but I know the laws in my state, how much it costs to rent an apartment, - the facts that surround the idea of divorce. If my H were to threaten me, I would want to know how far along he was in the process so I could assess my options if he followed through. I learned these laws through friends who did go through the process, but if my H repeatedly threatened me, I would want to be more informed as to what mt options were if he did even if my emotions were all over the place.

I hope you see what I mean? Sometimes knowing the facts can help when emotions are not clear.

[Chippy]

I'm sorry it's been so rough Pearls :::hugs:::

You bring up an interesting point comparing BPD to other disabilities... .but BPD seems like such a different animal. If someone is unable to walk, then they are unable to walk... .and you can learn how to cope with that and support them, with BPD, we tend to not know what we will be facing at any given time.  That is certainly one of the most difficult parts for me, not knowing "who" I will be talking to at any given point, or how long that will last.

What I am currently trying to do (and honestly I don't know if this is a good approach or not) is to try to remind myself that it really is always the same person I am dealing with, whether they are loving me or hating me at any given moment.  And that the hate/anger/threats/etc are the BPD and actually just her/his fears/doubts/hurts/etc.  It is really hard to do sometimes... .but it seems to help me.  (The book "I hate you... .don't leave me" started me trying this)

As usual, just my thoughts.  Hang in there Pearls, it certainly sucks that you are having struggles with your family as well as your partner... .take care of yourself.

[Tattered Heart]

My feelings for him now are closer to boredom and annoyance though I'm a bit of a softie and can be "won over" by humor and anything that feels like "normalcy" - fleeting as that is. If we are together I  have to dig deep to find a way back to love when he ruined the whole holiday season and even my funeral stuff... .He wants to provide emotional support - but it always comes back to him. He's not good at it and wants me to teach him... .but... .

Why do you have to go back to digging deep to love him again after everything? What if you just let the feelings lie where they lie... .you are annoyed and bored with him. Sit with that for awhile and see where it leads you. I find that in my uncomfortableness with my own emotions I make the best decisions and get the most momentum in moving forward. Sure over time those feelings, if not dealt with, can lead to bitterness, but right now, those feelings are signs to you that something needs to change. They are your warning signal. And it sounds like you are getting close to a breakthrough point where everything will become clear--all the paths will lie before you and you will freely choose which path to walk without pressure from him or your own FOG.

to see what we could really be like... .I would care for him through an illness, I would, that's what you sign up for, but the breakups majorly damaged the whole thing (me especially) and I don't know how to make it work because that piece never goes away. I can't take the threats anymore - they are too much stress and too much hopelessness for me.

Could this be what he really is like? Sure, stress and other outside forces (like holidays) bring things to the forefront but are these same issues here whether its a holiday or not?

[pearlsw]

Why do you have to go back to digging deep to love him again after everything? What if you just let the feelings lie where they lie... .you are annoyed and bored with him. Sit with that for awhile and see where it leads you. I find that in my uncomfortableness with my own emotions I make the best decisions and get the most momentum in moving forward. Sure over time those feelings, if not dealt with, can lead to bitterness, but right now, those feelings are signs to you that something needs to change. They are your warning signal. And it sounds like you are getting close to a breakthrough point where everything will become clear--all the paths will lie before you and you will freely choose which path to walk without pressure from him or your own FOG.


Could this be what he really is like? Sure, stress and other outside forces (like holidays) bring things to the forefront but are these same issues here whether its a holiday or not?

Hi TH,

Thanks for the questions. I just simply feel like if I am with him I have to genuinely love him and be focused on him. If I can't find my love for him that would be a strong reason to leave him. I got over the boredom and annoyance - they passed. I am focusing on two things now: 1) rethinking what love means to me and what it might look like in my life/what I want for my life, and 2) supporting him as he looks for work which is a huge priority.

Yes, life with him may have a built-in level of stress that is not tolerable or desirable for me.

We are slowly speaking about various issues we have. It is very small steps. He does not speak so much... .I am just realizing what a giant gap this is between us... .He may never be able to meet my needs nor I his for that matter... .

thank you all for helping me think through the many fine points of this... . there is a lot from these years to unpack.

~pearl.

[Yuu]

Hey pearl,

It must've been really hard and stressful. Hang in there my friend 

Although I can't give any advice. I just wanted to let you know that You have my support and that You are a great person who helped my with your Advice.So You deserve better. You should take care of yourself.

Sincerely,
Yuu

[pearlsw]

Hey pearl,

It must've been really hard and stressful. Hang in there my friend 

Although I can't give any advice. I just wanted to let you know that You have my support and that You are a great person who helped my with your Advice.So You deserve better. You should take care of yourself.

Sincerely,
Yuu

thank you for the kind words my friend!   hope you are well!