Pregnant with BPD and So confused

[Confused1017]

Hello All,

I hope everyone had a good weekend.  I have been seeing a guy who I’m positive has BPD- he displays A lot of the signs.   He used to act so attached to me, cried once when he thought I may stop dating him.  I’ve never seen a man cry like that before over a dating situation... .!    Fast forward 7 or so months, it’s been like an up and down roller coaster.  He used to act like he liked me aLoT- then he started being distant... .he would still want to spend lots of time with me, his daughter and my daughter Too.  If we were Alone, he wanted to spend lots of time with me as well. 

Now, we got pregnant unexpectedly!  It was a total surprise and Shock for Both Of Us.  At first he really freaked out and was Really Mean to me.   He kept saying he is “only here for the baby” and “his heart is not in this”- meaning, with me.

And the last week and a half, he has suddenly been really sweet with me- taking me out to the movies, he made me dinner tonight at his place, but he told me that we are “just friends”.   He still however tries to get me to sleep with him when we are alone most of the time.   And I’ve caught him staring at me Many Many Times.   I once even woke up at night (I was half asleep, but something made me open my Eyes) , and I cAught Him Staring at Me in my SLEEP!
   
I Don’t understand where his MIND is- what is he thinking?  We are Pregnant!  And this sunday, 2 Days Ago, he also cried, got emotional.  I asked him if he wanted to be alone, and I decided to leave.  Then he Texted me and Apologized, said he “had a meltdown” and he said he “was sorry”... .and he asked me to please come back to his apartment.    Does he like me romantically or not?

Any help/ advice would be greatly appreciated.   Thank you, Confused

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[pearlsw]

Hi Confused1017,

It is hard to say for sure, but what I can say if he has these traits is he is likely to have a strong swing in his emotions over this. For example, if he gets the thought that this is something he wants he may throw himself into it. If he gets the thought he does not want it, he may throw himself into that thought pretty heavily too.

Does he typically have pretty black and white thinking? Do his emotions swing hard between wanting you and not wanting you?

How are you feeling about the pregnancy? How can you create a supportive/healthy environment for yourself given that he may not be able to meet some of your emotional (or other) needs around this? I wish/hope he could/would, but want to suggest that it is also good to be ready for the other possible scenarios.

It is so hard to understand the emotions of my partner with BPD traits even after seven years of this. Some days I might believe (again) that he loves me. It seems quite convincing, though less... "attractive" each time. Other days it is the complete opposite. He impulsively lashes out and would do all he could to destroy me... .or even himself.

wishing you peace, pearl.

p.s. why do you think he is staring at you?

[Confused1017]

It is so hard to understand the emotions of my partner with BPD traits even after seven years of this. Some days I might believe (again) that he loves me.
wishing you peace, pearl.

p.s. why do you think he is staring at you?
[/quote]
Hello Pearl,  thank you for your reply!  I think he stares at me, especially in my sleep, because He DOeS like me romantically, at least to some degree.  I think he may not want to admit it to himself that he likes me or admit it to me.   I’ve seen him act jealous with me.  He doesn’t like hearing Anything about my ex, my toddler’s Dad either.   He hasn’t been formally diagnosed with BPD, not that I know of.  But he has mentioned to me that he’s seen a therapist.  I’m not sure how often he goes, or if this therapist is experienced with BPD or not.

He does have black and white thinking, from what I’ve seen!  ONly About 2 - 2 1/2 Weeks ago, he told Me that he didn’t want me to be a part of his life, and that he is only going to be there for the baby (whatever that meant).  But NOW,  he’s suddenly inviting me to the movies with his daughter and making me dinner multiple times per week?  Now, he suddenly wants to be in my life & vice versa.
And here’s another shocker-  he recently invited himself to live with me once the baby is born, but I told him I do not think that’s a good idea, but we can definitely co-parent.   His behavior is so odd, so back n forth, it’s just really strange and Impossible to Understand! 
Any help, thoughts and/or advice would be really appreciated!  Thanks, Confused

[Confused1017]

[quote author=pearlsw link=topic=320683.msg12936332#msg1293

It is so hard to understand the emotions of my partner with BPD traits even after seven years of this. Some days I might believe (again) that he loves me. It seems quite convincing, though less... "attractive" each time. Other days it is the complete opposite. He impulsively lashes out and would do all he could to destroy me... .or even himself.

wishing you peace, pearl.
p.s. why do you think he is staring at you?
[/quote]

Thank you for your Reply, Pearlsw!   I’m really scared about this pregnancy, because he has mental health issues and because I don’t know for certain how he feels about me or us.   I think honestly, that my pwUBPD Stares at Me Many Times, because He DOES Like me.  I just think he is Afraid to like me/fall in love w me, etc.  he has acted jealous w me in the past, he is attracted to me, and he likes spending time with me, as far as I can tell. 

Maybe it is the whole black and white thinking.  He does go back and forth a lot it seems!   2 1/2 weeks ago, he claimed that he didn’t want me in his life, now, he is checking up on me and our baby almost every day.   He’s been calling and Texting me multiple times per day, when B4, he would go days and even 1-2 Weeks without speaking to Me.   It makes NO Sense to Me!  Does he have an ulterior motive?  Is this Just Part of His BPD?

Thank you so much, Confused 1017

[Confused1017]

Re: Pregnant with BPD and So confused!
« Reply #3 on: Today at 04:24:47 AM »
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[quote author=pearlsw link=topic=320683.msg12936332#msg1293

It is so hard to understand the emotions of my partner with BPD traits even after seven years of this. Some days I might believe (again) that he loves me. It seems quite convincing, though less... "attractive" each time. Other days it is the complete opposite. He impulsively lashes out and would do all he could to destroy me... .or even himself.

wishing you peace, pearl.
p.s. why do you think he is staring at you?
[/quote]

Thank you for your Reply, Pearlsw!   I’m really scared about this pregnancy, because he has mental health issues and because I don’t know for certain how he feels about me or us.   I think honestly, that my pwUBPD Stares at Me Many Times, because He DOES Like me.  I just think he is Afraid to like me/fall in love w me, etc.  he has acted jealous w me in the past, he is attracted to me, and he likes spending time with me, as far as I can tell. 

Maybe it is the whole black and white thinking.  He does go back and forth a lot it seems!   2 1/2 weeks ago, he claimed that he didn’t want me in his life, now, he is checking up on me and our baby almost every day.   He’s been calling and Texting me multiple times per day, when B4, he would go days and even 1-2 Weeks without speaking to Me.   It makes NO Sense to Me!  Does he have an ulterior motive?  Is this Just Part of His BPD?

Thank you so much, Confused 1017

[pearlsw]

Hi Confused1017,

Yes, this could be part of his BPD. In all fairness anyone could have up and down/on and off feelings about a pregnancy though.

I want to strongly, strongly encourage you though to stay focused first and foremost on yourself and your pregnancy. I normally don’t weigh in so hard, but when I imagine going through a pregnancy with someone with black and white thinking I really tighten up in my gut.

When I first got with my partner we talked about kids and he was all for it. I thought it was a dream come true. Then he suddenly changed to the off position. I’ve never gone back and put this element of our relationship under the BPD microscope, but…you make me realize I need to take a second look.

But in your case…take some time to read here (all of the lessons on the right are helpful! -->, learn to understand this illness, and then brace yourself for making your own decisions because he may or may not settle anytime soon on what he wants. Does he have other people in his life to offer him guidance and support? Do you? My feeling is you really need a strong support system and getting that in place is a priority. Is that something you have or can work on?

How do you feel about the pregnancy?

warmly, pearl.

[Radcliff]

Hello Confused,

Let me join pearlsw in saying, "Welcome to the boards."  We are glad you are here.  This is a great place for support, and with Baby on the way, you need all the support you can get.  How does the rest of your support system look?  Do you have a circle of friends you can lean on?  Do you have family nearby who can help?

May I ask how old your daughter is?

Best,

WW

[Confused1017]

Hello Confused,

Let me join pearlsw in saying, "Welcome to the boards."  We are glad you are here.  This is a great place for support, and with Baby on the way, you need all the support you can get.  How does the rest of your support system look?  Do you have a circle of friends you can lean on?  Do you have family nearby who can help?

May I ask how old your daughter is?

Best,

WW

Hi WW and thank you for your reply! . I’m sorry for the delay in answering- I’ve been working long hours, and then I Pick Up my daughter and get busy with her.  My little girl is 3 1/2 years old now. .   
I just don’t understand his intense mood swings and how he Never, ever takes the blame for Anything!  Also, he will still claim not to like me romantically, but he got me pregnant- we were seeing each other for a lil over 7 months.  And He Always Asks to spend time with me- A lot lately too!  What is going on here?

How does he really feel?  I do Not at all believe him when he says he doesn’t want to be in a relationship or whatever with me!  He acts jealous with me on a regular basis, even now.   I don’t know what to do!  Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Thank you, Confused

[Radcliff]

Hello Confused,

Let me see if I can help you make sense of this.  Folks with BPD are different from typical folks.  We feel a certain way about someone, and how we feel tends to be relatively stable over time, and changes slowly.  So when our person with BPD seems to love us one minute and hate us the next, it makes our head spin.  It seems like one of those emotions must be "fake."  It's the only way it can make sense to us.  And we wonder which one is true!

Here's the thing I realized about my BPD wife that helped make so much make sense.  I realized that all of these emotions are real to her.  She really does hate me.  Then, she really does love me.  I am sure it is miserable for her to have emotions go up and down like that.  And it certainly can be miserable for me.

I think you're showing wisdom in being cautious about allowing the father of your child to move in with you.  The emotional fluctuations of a pwBPD can be even more disruptive when we are living with them.  Does he have any children?  Since you're a mom, you know how stressful having a baby can be.  Losing sleep is no fun!  Stressful situations make BPD symptoms worse, and that is not what you need to be coping with if you have a new baby.  Take a look at the educational materials and tools along the top bar, and on the right hand side of this site.  Being in a relationship with a pwBPD is a lot of work, but the tools here can help.  Doing your learning and getting your support here while you have your own space at home, seems like a good approach to things.

Is there a particular behavior of your guy, or a situation between the two of you, that causes the most pain or that you'd like help figuring out?

WW

[Confused1017]

Hi WW, thank you again for your replies- they are very helpful to me.
I find it very Hurtful that he claims he does not want to date me; that we are just “friends.”   But as I’ve stated in the very first post, initially, he acted like he really Liked me ALOT Romanitcally; he even cried desperately in front of me one time, when he thought I was not going to continue to See him!  I don’t get it.

Then, a month after him crying and begging me to continue to See Him, then he started acting more nonchalant, claiming he didn’t want to “date” me, but yet he wanted to spend a lot of time with me.  Also, My pwBPD used to and STill does STARE at ME on many occasions- while I’m awake and while I’m sleeping/dozing off.  But then when i’d Feel his stare and look up/open my eyes, he would pretend he was not looking at me.  It seems as though he doesn’t want to admit he likes me in a ROMANTIC WAY!   He has said in the past that he likes me though.

But, despite him wanting to spend lots of time with me, him getting me pregnant, and staring at me when he thinks I am not looking, He didn’t get me even a bday card for my birthday.  All he did was ask me to come over to his apt. And he said he “cooked” for me on a Friday night.  He asked me to stop by after work, and he had Nothing for me- no Birthday Card At Least, no cupcake/cake, nothing. .  ALL HE did was “cook” us two open-faced sandwiches.  I was speechless, but I also did not want to Hurt his feelings or Upset him.   I would Never do that to him- I am more considerate and thoughtful.  Especially for a lover’s birthday or any special occasion.  It really HURT me a lot about his lack of effort for my BDAY.

Does he really like me or Not?  He does seem to enjoy his time w me mostly, but it really hurts that he didn’t make a real effort.  He seems to be excited about our pregnancy, he’s asked to join me at my next ob/gyn appt, which I appreciate.

But I just don’t understand HIM, or HOW HE FEELS About ME?  Mixed messages for months, and I do see him act jealous at times too.

Any thoughts, input and/or Advice is Greatly Apprecuated!  Thank you.

[Confused1017]

[quote author=Wentworth link

Is there a particular behavior of your guy, or a situation between the two of you, that causes the most pain or that you'd like help figuring out
   
Re: Pregnant with BPD and So Confused
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Pregnant with uBPD guy- He has Done a 180 Suddenly & Idon’t know if it’s Sincere
Re: Pregnant with BPD and So Confused
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Hi WW, thank you again for your replies- they are very helpful to me!
I find it very Hurtful that he claims he does not want to date me; that we are just “friends.”   But as I’ve stated in the very first post, initially, he acted like he really Liked me ALOT Romanitcally; he even cried desperately in front of me one time, when he thought I was not going to continue to See him!  I don’t get it.

Then, a month after him crying and begging me to continue to See Him, then he started acting more nonchalant, claiming he didn’t want to “date” me, but yet he wanted to spend a lot of time with me.  Also, My pwBPD used to and STill does STARE at ME on many occasions- while I’m awake and while I’m sleeping/dozing off.  But then when i’d Feel his stare and look up/open my eyes, he would pretend he was not looking at me.  It seems as though he doesn’t want to admit he likes me in a ROMANTIC WAY!   He has said in the past that he likes me though.

But, despite him wanting to spend lots of time with me, him getting me pregnant, and staring at me when he thinks I am not looking, He didn’t get me even a bday card for my birthday.  All he did was ask me to come over to his apt. And he said he “cooked” for me on a Friday night.  He asked me to stop by after work, and he had Nothing for me- no Birthday Card At Least, no cupcake/cake, nothing. So Sad! ALL HE did was “cook” us two open-faced sandwiches.  I was speechless & so disappointed and Hurt, but I also did NOT want to Hurt his feelings or Upset him.  I would Never do that to him- I am much more considerate and thoughtful.  Especially for a lover’s birthday or any special occasion.  It really HURT me a lot about his lack of effort for my BDAY.

Does he really like me or Not?  He does seem to enjoy his time w me mostly, but it really hurts that he didn’t make a real effort.  He seems to be excited about our pregnancy, he’s asked to join me at my next ob/gyn appt, which I appreciate.

But I just don’t understand HIM, or HOW HE FEELS About ME?  Mixed messages for months, and I do see him act jealous at times to w me... .

Any thoughts, input and/or Advice is Greatly Apprecuated! Thank you!

[Turkish]

Mixed messages here for sure... .

It might help to shift away from guessing how he feels (the others have provided good input on how a person with BPD might be feeling). He's scared,  likely,  but hasn't run. This is good.  It's also good that you've included him by inviting him into the process like the appointments.  This tosses the ball into his court.  BPD or not,  he needs to take responsibility for his feelings.  It isn't your job to make him a father.  He is going to be. 

So the shift,  in my opinion,  should be to what you need from him vis-a-vis him being the father of your child.  He likely needs clear direction (not control,  but rather tiny tasks he can handle emotionally). Does this make sense?

[Radcliff]

Hi Confused2017,

Sorry to be slow, I've had my hands full on this end, and am just now climbing back into the saddle (I think I said that to someone a few days ago -- I'm feeling a little bruised lately from landing on the ground  )

I'm sorry you were disappointed on your birthday!  That must have felt bad to not have it observed in a warm and thoughtful way by someone so close to you.

What you are talking about reminds me of a book a therapist suggested that I read when I described similar behavior by my wife.  The book is called, "I Hate You Don't Leave Me."  The dynamic you are experiencing is called "push-pull."  The pwBPD pulls you towards them, then fears being too close, and pushes you away.  These cycles tend to repeat without treatment.

One important concept when dealing with someone with BPD, and indeed in any relationship, is "boundaries."  Is that a familiar term?  If so, what does that term mean to you?

WW

[Confused1017]

Hello Confused,

Let me see if I can help you make sense of this.  Folks with BPD are different from typical folks.  We feel a certain way about someone, and how we feel tends to be relatively stable over time, and changes slowly.  So when our person with BPD seems to love us one minute and hate us the next, it makes our head spin.  It seems like one of those emotions must be "fake."  It's the only way it can make sense to us.  And we wonder which one is true!

Here's the thing I realized about my BPD wife that helped make so much make sense.  I realized that all of these emotions are real to her.  She really does hate me.  Then, she really does love me.  I am sure it is miserable for her to have emotions go up and down like that.  And it certainly can be miserable for me.

I think you're showing wisdom in being cautious about allowing the father of your child to move in with you.  The emotional fluctuations of a pwBPD can be even more disruptive when we are living with them.  Does he have any children?  Since you're a mom, you know how stressful having a baby can be.  Losing sleep is no fun!  Stressful situations make BPD symptoms worse, and that is not what you need to be coping with if you have a new baby.  Take a look at the educational materials and tools along the top bar, and on the right hand side of this site.  Being in a relationship with a pwBPD is a lot of work, but the tools here can help.  Doing your learning and getting your support here while you have your own space at home, seems like a good approach to things.

Is there a particular behavior of your guy, or a situation between the two of you, that causes the most pain or that you'd like help figuring out?
WW

Hi WW, thank you for your Reply!

[Confused1017]

Hi Wentworth and Turkish,

Thank you for your responses!  My uBPD bf/friend asked me to hang out last night after work, to have dinner- I said yes.  We had dinner at his place and he asked me to sleep over n have breakfast.  I said Yes and slept over- we watched movies after dinner on Friday night.  It was a really nice, relaxing evening/night!  Then, he initiated sex with me theee times throughout the night/early morning- sex w him is usually good, in my opinion. 

Then we go out and have breakfast the following morning (this morning), as planned.  Everything was fine for the most part, things were good with us.  We ran a couple of errands after breakfast, and then when I drop him off at his place, we say our goodbyes.  My uBPD bf/Friend did not kiss me at all- he just hugged me and said bye to the baby/ rubbed my belly.

He always seems to be reluctant to kiss or makeout- we have before, but only once in a while.  He does smoke a lot of weed- and I hear that when people smoke Weed ALL the Time, like he does, the Person’s Breath Begins to Smell Badly!  I don’t know if that is the reason- or he has an issue with kissing/making out,  or does he Just not want to kiss/makeout with me?   But he is always hugging me and trying to have sex with me. 

Please help!  Am I wasting my time here? Is he just not interested in me?  Any help, advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated!   Thank u, Confused1017

[Radcliff]

Hello Confused1017,

Nice to hear from you.  If you had an evening date, he initiated lovemaking three times, and you had a good breakfast, I would say that clearly he is interested in you!

The real question is:

How do you feel.

I see similarities in what you are experiencing to the way I was several decades ago, and indeed until just recently.  Perhaps consider this a message from an older, wiser you... .

For some reason, a lot of us folks who get involved with pwBPD really focus a lot on the other person.  We want to know how they're feeling, if they like us, if things will be OK.  It is so easy to fall out of touch with how we ourselves feel.  Losing touch with how we feel and what we want can have a big impact on our lives -- a big impact on our happiness and the decisions we make.

The overnight date sounds wonderful.  I can hear your enthusiasm.  He was willing to invest time with you doing several different activities, there was good lovemaking, and things went pretty well over an extended period.  You had a nice, relaxing evening, and it seems like that's something you feel good about, and is something you want in a relationship

So, take a look at the kissing thing.  Lots of couples are kissy, lots are not.  It's about personal preference.  It resonated with me, because I really would like to kiss "hello" and "goodbye" but my wife does not.  I've realized how much it weighs on me, but that's entirely personal.  If I was less kissy, it would not be a big deal at all.  In a calm time, talk to him about it.  Tell him how the impact his kisses have on you.  Perhaps he'll be willing to make some changes.  If he sticks with his current style, think about whether that is a "nice to have" or is really one of your core needs.  Recognizing core needs takes a little work, but is important.

The big advice here to hang onto and try to make a permanent shift in your approach to things is to pay more attention to your feelings and mental state and worry less about his.  Don't worry about being selfish, I'm not saying to ignore his side of things, just to permanently boost your awareness of your inner state.  Notice how you feel, and if overall things are meeting your needs.  Notice whether or not the way things are going makes you feel like spending more or less time with him.  And then let your actions follow your feelings.  If you do not do this, what will be learned in the relationship is that getting your attention and time has no relationship to whether your needs are being met.  If you can be mindful of this from the start, this relationship is likely to go better for you, and you'll be able to better make decisions that serve you well.

WW