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Author Topic: I am tired and have nothing left for her  (Read 3085 times)
Tired_Dad
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« on: February 13, 2018, 01:05:34 PM »

Greetings,

So I find myself in what I consider a strange place. I have been really doing some hard reviews of myself, my actions and my feelings and I can honestly say that I gain nearly no emotional or physical benefit from my relationship with my wife. I have come to the conclusion that though she might not be beyond recovery and saving, it is beyond my ability to help her and that she only harms me.

I have confirmed to myself that I do not look to her as a source of joy or companionship, I do not see her as a partner, I do not value her company as all of these are filled with too much instability for me to ever be comfortable.

I am valued by my family and my son, I am valued and enjoy my work, I am valued and enjoy serving my country.

I reject her claims that I am codependent because she feels that I rely on her for my happiness. I am happier when she is gone, when she is sleeping, when she is silent, when she takes her medication properly.

I reject her claims that I need her to find value in myself. I reject the toxicity, the anger, the rage.

I long for the calm, I resent the family courts in my state for an unfair bias towards the mother, I resent that if I divorce her she will receive a paycheck for providing chaos and little else.

I resent that she didn't want to start grad school because she was afraid that people would say she was with me just to pay for it, that she was underemployed in her field and never made enough to contribute to the family or pay on her loans, that she never went for her licensure because she was afraid of the cost, that she has been effectively unemployed for 3 years and that she is mad at me for being employed when she is not.

I am tired of projection, gaslighting, JADE, validating, painting black, tearing down, and just the effort that goes into caring about someone who is so afflicted.

I hate that I often can't find it in myself to care anymore about her wellbeing. That I am not sure if I would be more sad or relieved if she finally left or ended it for herself.

I am sad that my son is hurt by all of this. That I have to teach him self care to defend against his mother. That I cannot shield him from any of this and that I cannot risk her having even 50% custody because of that damage she is capable of.

I am tired of being accused of abuse from an abuser, for being told that I am mean, condescending, not kind, and a$$hole for maintaining boundaries. That if she takes a swing or throws things at me I am supposed to take it, but if I block or redirect her she is appalled that I "hit" her and I have to take it because the police and society feel that it's ok for a woman to do that.

I am tired, I have nothing left for her, I know that divorce is coming and I am preparing for the inevitable extinction burst that follows.

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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 01:35:51 PM »

It sounds like you are, indeed, a tired dad.

I read every word, I understand what you've said, and I just wanted to commend you for having the courage to tell it like it is for you.  It is so helpful to put into words the very real fears and difficult/painful conclusions that creep around the back-burners of our minds while we lie awake at night.

I have found this forum to be akin to an anonymous diary... .that actually talks back!

Excerpt
I am tired, I have nothing left for her, I know that divorce is coming and I am preparing for the inevitable extinction burst that follows.

I am sorry you are bracing yourself for this eventuality.  It's tough.  I've been there, myself.

If you have more to say about your understandable feelings of detachment or have actionable plans for legal separation or divorce, feel free to mull things over here.  We're listening.


-Speck
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 03:15:39 PM »

Tired_Dad.  Every single word.  Every one.  Anger, rage, toxicity, underemployment, entitled attitude, all of it.  I'm right there too.  I realize I avoid her at all cost.  I don't even go to the second floor until I know she's asleep.  My wife, like yours, maybe could be saved... .maybe.  But I'm out of gas, burnt out.  There is no love in our marriage and hasnt been for a long time.

Sounds like you are a bit depressed knowing what behaviors are waiting for you.  This same depression/fear has kept me stuck for a long time.

I too am bristled by the fact that in divorce instead of living with the abuse for free, I get to pay her for it (my state is bad for dads too).  This is a really tough thought and I do what I can to push it aside knowing that its not forever.  Also I try to think of the support payment as the cost to be legally able to tell her to pound sand.

Keep rejecting those claims.  You know they aren't true, and the people that are real in your life know it too.

Keep posting, I'm rooting for you,
-Oz
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 03:17:12 PM »

Hi Tired_Dad,

I want to share the poster’s above sentiments. I understand. It’s hard when you’re feeling depleted. I have shared custody with my exuBPDw and I had the same worries. You can provided a safe place that’s away from the chaos and has structure and routine, your son needs an emotionally stable parent and that’s you. How old is your son? What do you do for self care?
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Tired_Dad
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 07:38:53 AM »

Sounds like you are a bit depressed knowing what behaviors are waiting for you.  This same depression/fear has kept me stuck for a long time.

ozmatoz - I can understand how the situation is depressing, but in reflection I really can say that I am not "depressed" about it. I have a strong support structure outside of my marriage that is great for my mental health as well as my own independent activities that I participate in to maintain my own sense of self.

I was raised to be resilient by my parents. And my mother, who may have suffered from depression and maybe a hint of BPD, seemed to put great effort into doing what was right instead of what her impulse was. As I am the youngest child of parents that dealt with the great depression and WWII shortages as children themselves I feel that their work ethic and family, community before self attitude combined with my military service has really shaped me to be resilient myself.

You can provided a safe place that’s away from the chaos and has structure and routine, your son needs an emotionally stable parent and that’s you. How old is your son? What do you do for self care?

My son is 10. He is very active and very aware of his mother's suffering. I do my best to help him develop coping mechanisms to get him through dealing with her as even if we separate she will be part of his life and he needs to understand that rational thought doesn't always fit into the picture when dealing with her. I'm looking at when he turns 14/freshman year as a hard stop for the madness as he will be able to be much more independent at that time and will make shielding him from her much less of an issue.

Even last night she ended up raging at him over a disagreement stemming from if he had a pack of fruit snack on the way to school or not. He felt that he needed to be insistent and was very angry that he wasn't being believed by her and was defending himself vociferously and getting loud but to me never crossed the line by saying anything disrespectful or mean. Unfortunately she takes any increase in volume to be disrespect, and any disagreement as disrespect so it's always a loosing prospect for him to defend himself. I am working with him to have him understand JADE, but for a 10yo that's not always easy to do.

For my self care I have multiple projects to loose myself in and to also work with my son on. I have a fairly good woodworking shop in my basement to make and repair things and it is very satisfying to do this with my son. We have also rebuilt a 1980 something Tamiya RC Car that was mine when I was a kid and teaching him to solder wires and how the differential works is great. I also read a lot and have multiple remodel and improvement projects going on that keep me busy.

I am also finding it therapeutic right now to clean, organize, and remodel the basement family room. Part of this has been putting a lot of her things into boxes for storage in the garage, and though it is childish and a bit passive aggressive moving her stuff out a little at a time I find it is giving me a form of closure on the relationship. 

Probably my most consistent self care activity is video games. I play nearly every night after my son goes to bed. I put the headphones on, immerse myself in the experience, I have a clan that I belong to and that does skirmishes together using voice chat applications and it pulls me out of the day for a few hours at the very end of my day before I go to bed. There is also something inherently satisfying of blowing up tanks when you're in a crappy mood.
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 08:15:02 AM »

Hi Tired_Dad. It sounds like you have a lot going on mentally and emotionally. I’m sorry that you’re feeling this way, but it does appear from your post that you have come to a place where you solidly identify things that are unacceptable to you, and that you accept that these things are detrimental to your well being. I was never married to my ex, but we do have a young Son together. I have similar fears of family court as well. I’ve been lucky enough to avoid FC so far with a good amount of time being spent with my Son. I heard something one morning on a talk radio show that resonated with me. It wasn’t about FC, custody or anything like that. The premise of the discussion was about personal well being. How our individual health is the greatest asset we will ever have. Not much money or possessions, but our own well being. This from a respected doctor. Sorry, I don’t recall a name. I got so low with my ex that I eventually decided that I wanted to be well and happy as an individual before anything else. I have to cut this short as I’m at work. Good on you for deciding and recognizing what is unacceptable for your own well being. Please keep us updated.
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 07:37:05 PM »

Excerpt
Probably my most consistent self care activity is video games. I play nearly every night after my son goes to bed. I put the headphones on, immerse myself in the experience, I have a clan that I belong to and that does skirmishes together using voice chat applications and it pulls me out of the day for a few hours at the very end of my day before I go to bed. There is also something inherently satisfying of blowing up tanks when you're in a crappy mood.

Here, here.  Currently playing Tom Clancey's Ghost Recon: Wildlands, myself. Very therapeutic!

I also do wood-working.  Just finished putting up wainscotting in my dining room.  All custom, one board at a time.  Also very therapeutic.

Hobbies are great!


-Speck
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 12:51:25 AM »

You sound like you've got a logical grasp on what you're going through.  Do you have a plan for you and your son?
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Tired_Dad
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 09:14:36 AM »

You sound like you've got a logical grasp on what you're going through.  Do you have a plan for you and your son?

The one thing that I always have is a plan. After 27 years in the Army I have plans, and branch plans, and contingency plans, and parallel plans to all of them.

I constantly am gaming this, and really every situation out strategically, whereas my wife only thinks tactically. I am in for the long game and I don't think that a disordered person or one suffering from BPD is truly capable of a sustained long term plan.

First step to any plan though is good operations security (OPSEC) keep your plan to yourself or a select few. A plan to counter a BPD is completely ineffective once they are aware of it as in my experience it will be used against you that you were even considering that they may not be around forever. Yet on the flip side any plan that you have to support a BPD has the same likelihood of being ineffective as saving for retirement may scare them, planning for a vacation can cause an anxiety overload or just planning to cave a car sent in for repair may put them in a panic over "what will I do without my car?"

To put it simply though my plan is to contain the damage as best as possible, insulate assets in a way that they cannot be easily liquidated, ensure that there are sufficient assets available for her lawyer and my own (if it comes to that), keep all paperwork, titles, records in a safe place where they cannot be easily destroyed or lost.

The most interesting part to me is that the framework that I am operating under has the side benefit of getting my family as a whole in a better financial position so that if a miracle happens and an anointed finger reaches down and removes the BPD from her brain we will be able to retire early.

Unfortunately, though I still hold out a small amount of hope and the door is open to reconciliation and growth as a couple, I do not expect her to stabilize enough for that to happen, nor for me to be sensitive enough to her situation for me to be what she needs. I am afraid that it has gone on too long and that the instability runs too deep to reach a place that I need to be content in the marriage.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 10:22:45 AM »

Hey Tired Dad, I reached a point in my marriage to my BPDxW when I had nothing left in the tank, so-to-speak.  I became totally depleted, emotionally, physically and financially.  It sounds like you are nearing a similar stage in your marriage.  I would suggest that you continue to do what you are doing in terms of protecting yourself.  I hit bottom and had a crash landing, which was not fun.  I recommend that you take steps to recharge your batteries and take care of yourself.  How?  Share your feelings with a close friend or family member; avoid isolation; write in a journal; take a walk in the woods or on the beach; practice mindfulness; sit with your feelings and just observe; get out and do strenuous exercise; etc.  You get the idea.  If you can't love yourself, no one else will be able to do it, either.

Hang in there,
LuckyJim
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Tired_Dad
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 10:03:39 AM »

Had some mixed results in holding boundaries over the 3 day weekend. Mostly did my best to keep things to a low simmer and not push it as I am just emotionally depleted by her.

Challenges we are currently facing:

1. Had a court date changed for an assault / making threats charge that my BPDw is pressing against one of her former friends as they are filing against her for assault.
2. Her vehicle is in need of serious repairs. Not an issue with paying for them, but it was a chore just to get her to bring her vehicle in and now that it will be out of commission for about a week is freaking out about places that she needs to go and the "how will I get there" panic.
3. She is not on any anti depressants at this time. Only her anxiety medication and her sleeping medication. So on top of all the regular challenges this has been adding to the stress for at least a week or longer.

Unfortunately logic doesn't play a role in her head as the following things are in place and a reasonable person would feel stressed and inconvenienced but not overwhelming doom and despair.

1. Lining up a lawyer, she's collecting documents from the police and court. We have the advantage as I forced her to call the police that evening and to file a report the next day. There is also a temporary protective order against the other individual that was granted. As of now we have the advantage, just annoyed that I need to pay a lawyer for this but not overly concerned.
2. It's a machine... .machines break. The dealership is providing a loaner for her to drive so other than having to pick it up today there was no issue and she can continue on with her plans.
3. Hopefully she will have a good solution from her prescriber. I really wish that I could find a way to speak to her prescriber directly about the impact of these decisions that they make but I don't feel that there is a way to do it appropriately or without risking her therapeutic relationship.

The "positive" to most of this is that she has been isolating herself upstairs in the bedroom and my son and myself have been going on with our daily lives. She has moments of "clarity" when she is yelling that she is off her medication and that this is hard for, however I can say that I have minor empathy and no sympathy for this situation as the on medication, off medication roller-coaster ride is unnecessary.

I have held my ground and refused to be "kicked out" of the bedroom. Once again I have clearly stated to her that if she is angry she is free to sleep wherever she wants, but I am not going to be pushed out of our bed because she is not in a stable place. This has been an agreement of ours since before we were married and I will not budge on it. She will scream and call me a pu$$y for not giving up the bed to which I remind her of our agreement, and remind her that she wants to be treated as an equal in the marriage. She is free to make her own choices for herself and I am not going to choose for her where she sleeps, eats, etc.

Deep slow breaths and keeping moving. 
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2018, 10:10:41 AM »

Excerpt
I have held my ground and refused to be "kicked out" of the bedroom. Once again I have clearly stated to her that if she is angry she is free to sleep wherever she wants, but I am not going to be pushed out of our bed because she is not in a stable place. This has been an agreement of ours since before we were married and I will not budge on it. She will scream and call me a pu$$y for not giving up the bed to which I remind her of our agreement, and remind her that she wants to be treated as an equal in the marriage. She is free to make her own choices for herself and I am not going to choose for her where she sleeps, eats, etc.

Great stuff, TD.  Keep up the good work!  I admire your resolve.

LuckyJim
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Tired_Dad
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 07:08:18 PM »

Been an interesting two days.

Supported her with her court appearance yesterday. Had to repeatedly remind her that the "friend" she had (who makes my spouse look like a kitten) was purposefully doing little things to get at her and amp her up or intimidate her before going before the judge. I do not know anyone who is so willing to self sabotage themselves and try to put the blame on their emotions and actions on everyone else.

On the plus side my son and I spent the day doing some errands and then she isolated herself upstairs... .closing the door now when she does it... .and didn't start any conflicts for the night.

Today she got up early and got in the shower, and went out the door to see her dad and run errands. That was before 9am, it is now 8pm. I have heard nothing from her and have had a peaceful day with my son working on projects and just chilling. I am concerned for her safety, but not enough to reach out to her as I am assuming that is what she wants me to do. I fully expect her to come home and be pissed that I didn't call her, but as I repeatedly remind her... .she is an adult and I am not chasing her anymore.

In her state she could have done any number of stupid or self harming things. I just can't be a part of them anymore.   
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2018, 08:24:38 PM »

Hey Tired_Dad,

Sounds like there is quite a bit of unhappiness in your home. I feel for your struggle.

I'm glad you had a chill day and were able to hang out with your son. Your focus seems to be on what you need to do for you and your son right now, and that's a step in the right direction, for sure.

Thanks for the update.  It's been another hour. Has she come home yet?


-Speck
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 10:55:47 AM »

Excerpt
In her state she could have done any number of stupid or self harming things. I just can't be a part of them anymore.   

Hey TD, Right, she could have, I understand; sometimes it's hard to sit on the sidelines.  It took me a long time to come around to the view that I'm not responsible for the behavior of another adult, even if that adult suffers from BPD.  All you can do is work on yourself and your own behavior, in order to find the right path for yourself.  If you get confused, suggest you consult the Serenity Prayer.

LJ
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Tired_Dad
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2018, 11:44:27 AM »

Thanks for the update.  It's been another hour. Has she come home yet?

She came home shortly after I posted... .and sat in the driveway for 45 minutes or so before coming in. Then went upstairs and I really didn't interact with her for the rest of the night.

She did spend a good portion of Sunday making the spare room more comfortable for herself and on one level that makes me relieved as it will reduce my interactions with her, but on another level it just makes it seem like I have a petulant teenager in the house instead of a middle-aged wife.

Next therapy session we have I will need to have a frank discussion about the budget and her role in it. I am at the point that if she is not going to participate or make attempts to participate in a marriage and act more as a $hitty room mate then she needs to financially contribute as a room mate.

Not going to jump to draconian measures, but it should start with her getting a job, literally any job, and providing for a portion of the household expenses.
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2018, 12:07:43 PM »

Not going to jump to draconian measures, but it should start with her getting a job, literally any job, and providing for a portion of the household expenses.

Well, that certainly is a solid focal point of a therapy session! I hope it bears fruit.

Let us know how it goes.


-Speck
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2018, 02:40:55 PM »

Hey there TiredDad,

Been an interesting two days.

Supported her with her court appearance yesterday. Had to repeatedly remind her that the "friend" she had (who makes my spouse look like a kitten) was purposefully doing little things to get at her and amp her up or intimidate her before going before the judge. I do not know anyone who is so willing to self sabotage themselves and try to put the blame on their emotions and actions on everyone else.

On the plus side my son and I spent the day doing some errands and then she isolated herself upstairs... .closing the door now when she does it... .and didn't start any conflicts for the night.

Today she got up early and got in the shower, and went out the door to see her dad and run errands. That was before 9am, it is now 8pm. I have heard nothing from her and have had a peaceful day with my son working on projects and just chilling. I am concerned for her safety, but not enough to reach out to her as I am assuming that is what she wants me to do. I fully expect her to come home and be pissed that I didn't call her, but as I repeatedly remind her... .she is an adult and I am not chasing her anymore.

In her state she could have done any number of stupid or self harming things. I just can't be a part of them anymore.   

Just wanting to give a shout out to you. This must have been a really arduous journey and i can sense that kind of tiredness and resignation toward your current situation. I'm sure you reached this point after exhausting all you could have done to perhaps save this, but this seems like the only recourse of action left.

My heart goes out to you, and i can only begin to imagine what the many years of being in such a relationship has taken a toll on your physical and mental health. It does seem that while you're firm about moving forward, there is that weariness in your tone. A kind of tone that speaks of anguish and numbness. I do hope for the best outcome for you in the days and months ahead. I don't think is anything i can say at this point, just, we're right here with you yeah.

Take good care,
Spero.
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2018, 08:56:00 AM »

Tired Dad,

Thank you for your post. Your words resonate deeply with my situation.  My wife also shuts herself away in the bedroom daily. Does not participate in family activity. I have a great time keeping busy with my 3 kids (11, 12, & 14). The kids and I are very close. My wife also feels disrespect if there is any hint of volume increase with verbal responses from the kids.

I also feel relief when she is gone to visit family or when the kids and I leave to participate in one of their events. I also, like you, enjoy video gaming. It was something I began doing with my sons. We have a great time with the shared entertainment.

I too, feel like there isn't much more for me to give. She's not willing to do treatment. I'm finding myself thinking the same thoughts you shared. I don't find our relationship fulfilling and I am succumbing to depression/resentment more often. I will go mad trying to please her only knowing it will not be good enough. She has said on more than one occasion how my children treat her with so much disrespect because of the way they see me treat her.

I'm also frustrated by my states tendency to side with the mother. I have been a stay at home dad for nearly two years. I retired from my career and have absolutely loved being home for the kids. She's fully supportive of this as well except she holds the majority of the financial cards so to speak. This worries me about how I will fund a possible separation/divorce.

I have a lot of family support I can use. I would also be interested in hearing more of your plans in detail for detachment from the abuse. I'm sure it would be helpful to a good number of posters.

HD3
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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2018, 10:56:44 AM »

I would also be interested in hearing more of your plans in detail for detachment from the abuse. I'm sure it would be helpful to a good number of posters.

This is an interesting point you bring up. Though I see her actions as emotionally abusive and manipulative, I do not feel directly abused by them. I have long ago fully accepted that she is mentally ill and that she is not in control of her actions (or her mouth) in a way that a rational person would ever understand. To be honest that is the ONLY reason that I have allowed this marriage to continue. Now, that being said, it does not excuse her poor behavior, but it does inform my actions surrounding her behavior.

I do my best not to rise to her taunts, I do not give in to her and her sense of victimization. Unfortunately I can be a bit gruff now with "tough love" when she makes poor choices but that is part of the limits that I am placing on myself not to rescue her but to support and coach her through her the drama that is her life.

Bottom line is that my sense of self worth is separate from my marriage. I think of the marriage as one piece in the puzzle that makes up who I am, however, if this piece gets lost on the floor ... .I am not wasting my time searching for it anymore, I am going to do my best to find a way to enjoy the completed puzzle without that piece.

I do take precautions against her claiming abuse against me. Part of that is having a voice recording app on my phone. Though this puts me in different legal waters it does give me the ability to record if we were in an altercation that she may interpret as abusive and let me have something to back up my claim even though it may not be admissible in a court case. Also I keep the GPS locating features of my phone on at all times as if I ever leave I want it recorded where I went to discredit any false timelines that she may propose.

Her words have become increasingly meaningless to me. Her actions are all that seem to hold truth and that is where the destruction is coming from. She can say "don't blame me" all she wants, but the actions are what speak volumes.
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2018, 07:52:53 AM »

When you think it can't get any more surreal... .it does.

Have to admit though, I didn't even get mad at her ... .just really, really perplexed.

So she was isolated upstairs in the spare room and calls for me to come upstairs. I go to see what she wants without really thinking about it. She gives some line about we need to talk and goes on to talk about an ex-fiancée that reached out to her who has an ex wife that he lives with that is dying of cancer and is looking for support ... .I couldn't even be mad, I looked at her and talked her through the trap she was falling into and still she was defending him as the "only male she knows with boundaries." We never got to the point of a fight, I was able to redirect her back when she would bring up an issue and I was able to illustrate the specific choice that she made that led to the issue that she is worrying about.

Told her she needs to find a lawyer for the assault charge against her, she feels she doesn't need one because she didn't do anything. Asked if she should talk to a cop she knows first to see what they say, I agree and then she brings up that she only knows one ... .an ex boyfriend, who is recently divorced, who has already tried to get her to meet up with him, who she kissed within a week of us getting married because "she needed to be sure.' I let her know that would not be the best decision and she just couldn't contemplate it as she kept saying ... ."but they know I am married."

I find that this is all slipping away rapidly, and though this may sound horrible, I hope at some level she decides to run off with one of them so that I can be done with all of this quicker.

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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2018, 12:46:14 PM »

Tired_Dad,

When you think it can't get any more surreal... .it does.

I find that this is all slipping away rapidly, and though this may sound horrible, I hope at some level she decides to run off with one of them so that I can be done with all of this quicker.

Wowzer. I see what you mean! It really sucks being in limbo-land not knowing which direction the mighty oak will fall. Will it fall on you, your house, your kids, your wife? I'm sorry you're stuck outside watching the tree sway in the wind, creaking and cracking all the while.

Is there something you can do to make the tree go ahead and fall down, so at least you can assess the damage, and set about healing?


-Speck
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2018, 12:59:17 PM »


I find that this is all slipping away rapidly, and though this may sound horrible, I hope at some level she decides to run off with one of them so that I can be done with all of this quicker.


My uBPDw ex-affair partner has reached out to her again several times in the last few weeks... .she tried to throw it in my face, but frankly inside my own mind I was jumping for joy... ."good... .let him have you!"... .

I understand completely.

-Oz
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2018, 04:24:05 PM »

My uBPDw ex-affair partner has reached out to her again several times in the last few weeks... .she tried to throw it in my face, but frankly inside my own mind I was jumping for joy... ."good... .let him have you!"... .

The best is when they say "I can find someone else" in my head I'm screaming, then why are you insisting on still being here?

Yes, I am guilty of not kicking her out and of being afraid of the legal and financial havoc that will hit me when I do eventually pull the trigger on this. I have consulted a lawyer, and I am working to eliminate my personal debt as best as I can or convert it into joint debt so that in the event of a divorce it's shared (even though it is in my name, the majority of it has been accrued for joint purposes since my credit is better).

I am taking the long view, we were separated before and we seem to be on the path to the same again. If she decides to move out again, it's over I will file for divorce shortly after she leaves and petition the court to allow me to change the locks and potentially for a protective order.
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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2018, 09:17:27 AM »

Excerpt
I am taking the long view, we were separated before and we seem to be on the path to the same again. If she decides to move out again, it's over I will file for divorce shortly after she leaves and petition the court to allow me to change the locks and potentially for a protective order.

I admire your resolve, TD.  You know yourself, which is a big strength under these circumstances.  Keep standing up for yourself and give yourself credit for drawing a line in the sand.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2018, 08:31:02 AM »

The first was a text debate that we had, I am reluctant to call it a fight or argument as I was more perplexed by it than angry or upset even though she was clearly upset.

Her first message to me at 6:09pm was: "Hi what's going on. I can understand you not wanting to connect with me but it's not ok for you not to reach out to [Son]. He told me you didn't want to talk to me last night because you were going to sleep and something about fire alarms. Not sure what's going on with you or us but it's hard for me to believe you've been instructing a class all day at the cape so that you couldn't pick up the phone to see how we are... .I mean how [Son] is.
I suggested that she reframe her message and look at her missed calls before making assumptions, reminded her that this is the trouble that she creates when she is searching for a problem to have.

Needless to say that it circled from there and I would calmly copy and paste her own messages to her whenever she was contradicting herself of whenever she had an omission that would have had led to a better understanding of her need.

That was followed by me trying to call and say goodnight to our son and to have her interrupt the call to argue, at which I asked her to put my son back on the phone and when she refused I hung up on her twice. As a positive she did have him call again and did stay silent for my last call with him so that I could say goodnight and hear about his day.

Now, here’s where it was positive, at 10pm I asked her to re-read her first massage and to think of how she would respond if I sent that to her and at 1am she sent “I did go back and re-read my first message. I'm sorry that you felt like I was making assumptions. That was not my intention…. Sorry if I woke you up. I can't sleep and I'm really upset because I love you.” Now, getting awareness and an admission is rare and I will take it as a win, but it is not putting me in a place to where I trust her emotional responses.

I am glad that I stood my ground, kept my limits, didn't JADE and didn't get bitter or nasty with her myself.
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2018, 06:27:49 PM »

It's good to hear an update from you, Tired_Dad.

And it's also good to see how well you are setting boundaries and taking care of yourself.


-Speck
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2018, 02:31:22 PM »

My uBPDw often contradicts herself in her texts.  I too have sent her back her own words, scary thing is she either denies it, or tells me to f off and then changes the subject to something else I've done wrong.

Often I get a blistering text that is full of assumptions and is usually shot down pretty quick.  The fact that she was able to re-read her text and admit some wrong doing is huge.

Good for you on not letting it get to you or to turn into an argument.  I often wonder if I had just once in a blue moon got some admission or correction from my uBPDw that maybe my blood wouldn't boil so much when she starts her crap.  I can let a lot of things go, just not everything.

Take the wins when you can.

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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2018, 05:03:08 PM »

Tired_Dad - thanks for your posts on this thread. I'm relating pretty hard right now. This was particularly well said:

> I think of the marriage as one piece in the puzzle that makes up who I am, however, if this piece gets lost on the floor ... .I am not wasting my time searching for it anymore, I am going to do my best to find a way to enjoy the completed puzzle without that piece.

How are you feeling about your son, and the prospect of being separated?

This is the one thing holding me back at the moment, as mine is under two. I figure that staying or going each has a different mix of dis-/advantages. If I stay, I'll continue to take flak and resist it in front of him - regular conflict as mum seems to lack a filter - but I'll be there. If I go, it's too early to say how things will turn out with mum as his personality develops, but I'll have a safe space for him to come to regardless. Cue much guilt, but I'm stuck on the horns of dilemma.



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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2018, 09:06:12 AM »

How are you feeling about your son, and the prospect of being separated?

I am not feeling great about it as I don't want to limit his time with either of us as his relationship with by his mother and I is very important.

We have separated before when he was in Kindergarten and it started out very equal in time spent with my son, however it slowly devolved into a situation of her sending him away to me whenever he gave her a hard time or any resistance and he ended up with me about 90% of the time.

In addition to that she isn't currently working, or really making any serious attempts to find employment. During our last separation I continued to pay all the "legacy" bills and only initially requested that she pay any additional expenses that were incurred by her moving out. That lasted a little while until her Jeep broke down and needed to be replaced and I shelled out for that. In our negotiations for her to move back in to our home it was made very clear to her that I would not be doing that again if she moved out and that any separation initiated by her would become permanent along with the financial implications of that move.

I only hope that when we separate she is able to find a job with a living wage and that by her leaving she doesn't financially destroy the home that I have been building for my son.
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2018, 08:53:12 AM »

Thanks for sharing. It's interesting that your son ended up with you more. One of my concerns has been that it would only make sense for me to move closer to work if we separated. If I lived round the corner I could get these extra bits of time. But if an hour away it would be harder for those extras to happen.

Your partner doesn't seem as high functioning as mine. Mine's threatening to quit work if she doesn't get her way - I've told her it would be a mistake. Think mine will at least think about our son when it comes to dealing with capital.

Did you get much judgement from people when you separated? I don't relish the thought of having to deal with people who don't know the background to my situation. When I talk 1-on-1 to people in my circle they understand. Without that context, I can't help but wonder if people will go to default social opinions (liberal in my context) and the general silence about women who act badly to men behind closed doors. I know I'm over thinking this, and that people with any life experience tend to be more understanding, but curious nonetheless... .

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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2018, 10:41:42 AM »

One of my concerns has been that it would only make sense for me to move closer to work if we separated. If I lived round the corner I could get these extra bits of time. But if an hour away it would be harder for those extras to happen.

When we separated she first moved to a relatively nice apartment complex and she was working and was at that point functioning fairly well. Eventually as she dis-regulated more and wasn't able to keep up with her paperwork to get paid (she was a fee for service therapist) she moved out into a much less desirable neighborhood and apartment. Both of these were within 10-15 minutes of my home and both were about the same distance from my son's school as our home. He didn't end up with me more through any legal or informal agreements, it was simply that she was not able to function as a parent and needed to escape into her head.

Excerpt
Your partner doesn't seem as high functioning as mine. Mine's threatening to quit work if she doesn't get her way - I've told her it would be a mistake. Think mine will at least think about our son when it comes to dealing with capital.


Mine was encouraged to leave her job as a therapist by me as it was destroying her since she is/was completely unable to separate her emotions from those of her clients and was re-traumatizing herself on a daily basis. Also as a person with near to no time management, money management, or directional skills the fee for service outreach model was a terrible fit. On paper she was earning about $30 per client hour, by the time all was said and done and she did all of her paperwork, driving, extra time with clients and other agencies she making the equivalent of about $10 per hour (based on a 40hr work week which she was never able to attain). She was actually taking in more money at a part time waitressing job that she worked for a short period of time after leaving her agency than as a mental health clinician.

Excerpt
Did you get much judgement from people when you separated? I don't relish the thought of having to deal with people who don't know the background to my situation. When I talk 1-on-1 to people in my circle they understand. Without that context, I can't help but wonder if people will go to default social opinions (liberal in my context) and the general silence about women who act badly to men behind closed doors. I know I'm over thinking this, and that people with any life experience tend to be more understanding, but curious nonetheless... .


I had so much support from my friends and family that I never felt judged at all. Even her family was fairly (not completely) supportive towards my side of the situation. Since then she has been poisoning the water with her family towards me, but they don't provide nearly the support in our day to day lives as my side so it's not an issue. I credit this to just being open with my family with what I am going through, and with consistently attempting to get her family to help and support her recovery efforts. Though it hasn't succeeded in getting her the help, it does keep everyone informed as to what the current situation is.


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« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2018, 08:39:15 AM »

Coming up on what will most likely be an eventful and interesting (though most likely not pleasant) week.

After some dramatic outbursts from my wife that I interpret as coming from her anxiety over the upcoming court date on Friday for an Assault charge that she is pressing against a former friend and a matching assault charge that the former friend is pressing against her she has waffled excessively about how she is going to handle this situation.

I have given her some advice to contact a lawyer and that we can pay for it, she has not done so at this time as she thinks that SHE cannot pay for it and cannot see past the money in her own account to understand the overall household budget. She also does not understand how our legal system works and feels that if she doesn't show up it won't matter in regards to her defense. Though unlikely to get the maximum, the law states: "Whoever commits an assault or an assault and battery upon another shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 2 1/2 years in a house of correction or by a fine of not more than $1,000".

I will say that if she got a month or longer in lockup over this she may be forced to get the mental health that she needs. If she gets a fine, I will have to push her to get a job as I will not be paying it out directly. Even though I let her know that we could get a lawyer, I feel that the rejection of or inability to accept advice and counsel is a deliberate decision that she will need to accept the consequences of.

I'm not sure as to how the process goes myself as I have never been involved in proceedings of this nature, but I do know that if she is found guilty that it will have repercussions not only on her but on the family and I will most likely have to take some form of action to separate "Her" from "Us" in regards to any penalty.

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« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2018, 03:06:53 AM »

Hey, Tired_Dad:

It's great to get an update from you. Yes, this sounds like quite an un-fun week for you (and your wife).

Did your wife and this lady just get into a catfight and now it's morphed into a court case?

I hope whatever comes from this is a blessing, in whatever form that may take.


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« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2018, 07:34:28 AM »

Did your wife and this lady just get into a catfight and now it's morphed into a court case?

Calling it a Cat Fight would be a very generous explanation of events. Calling it two women suffering from overlapping mental health disorders would be far more accurate.

My spouse decided that she wanted to go to the bar at a local chain restaurant and have a beer and feel like an adult following her NA meeting (poor decision #1). Either the former friend was already there eating, or had just arrived and they had an interaction (poor decision #2)

Both of them filed police reports, the other women did it the night of, my wife did it the next day. From the description of events to me I suggested to my wife to press charges or to stop talking about it (take an action or drop it mentality for me) which she did (good decision #1). From the dates of the charges against my wife it appears that the other woman filed as soon as it was apparent that charges were filed against her.

My wife is at a significant disadvantage. She did not get the police to come out to the restaurant so there were no statements collected from witnesses nor any official reports at the scene. The other woman has a witness that is not her spouse and that is a police officer from a neighboring city which depending on what he attests to can make this very difficult for my wife in a "he said she said" circumstance.

I read both police reports, both statements are probable and very likely if edited together are a fairly accurate description of the events. Both women suffer from what I observe as BPD/NPD so obviously neither of them think that this is their fault.

Either way, thank you for the support and the sounding board.



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« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2018, 09:32:26 PM »

Hey, Tired_Dad:

Thank you for sharing this story.

Calling it a Cat Fight would be a very generous explanation of events. Calling it two women suffering from overlapping mental health disorders would be far more accurate.

I see. 

Excerpt
Either way, thank you for the support and the sounding board.

You got it!


-Speck

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« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2018, 09:10:44 AM »

You can't make these things up.

After weeks and months of rejecting my help with her legal issues my wife calls today in a crying panic because the "Lawyer of the day" for today and tomorrow that is assigned to the courthouse called out sick. So she has called and hung up on me once and ended the next call abruptly because she doesn't want to hear me tell her that the options for her defense are severely limited now.

So let me lay this out:
1) We can afford a lawyer and have no business relying on the free services that are better suited for those in a less advantageous situation
2) I have been telling her since before our last hearing on 2/23 that she was going to need a lawyer. Promptly told by her that she's "Got it under control."
3) She repeatedly vacillates between saying she has this under control and that she isn't going to appear.
4) I am not rescuing her. I will help, assist, guide, and even pay for this ... .but I am NOT going to take over and fix this and rescue her as I have done in the past.

Ok, so there it is for today. I am working on a contingency plan for if she is fined or remanded into custody and expect minimal impact to daily life and other than moving forward one step at a time.
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« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2018, 07:32:52 PM »

We have drifted further down the rabbit hope.

She went to crisis and she was sectioned (?) at a local hospital and cannot check herself out. Hopefully this will help her get the treatment that she needs.
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« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2018, 08:21:50 PM »

Hello, Tired_Dad:

Thanks for the update.

We have drifted further down the rabbit hole.

My word, this has really gotten out of hand. I see what you mean. Your wife seems really dysregulated right now.

Excerpt
She went to crisis and she was sectioned (?) at a local hospital and cannot check herself out. Hopefully this will help her get the treatment that she needs.

Yes. If she's under a 24-hour watch, she has been deemed to be at risk to either herself or others. I am sorry this is going on in your life. But, it seems that you have created some healthy distance between yourself and her drama, and are not in the rescuing position. So... .that's great!

Keep on, keeping on.


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« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2018, 08:27:53 PM »

Tired_Dad, “Hopefully this will help her get the treatment she needs Does this mean that you’re leaving her issues up to her to handle and taking care of yourself first? Leave her there Tired_Dad. It is not up to you to get her released, to wait around for when and to take care of her after. Let her do this herself. Step back and watch her do it herself. Don’t intervene one little bit. I suggest you drop her on her ass with all of the help you’ve been providing her. Speaking of all of the help you’ve been providing her? How do you feel at the end of the day when you have no energy left for yourself. She’s a grown ass woman. I’m sure that she’s told you that in different words. Let her be one.
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« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2018, 06:48:49 AM »

Speck,

Last night was a good night for reinforcing my limit setting. As it was Cub Scout night and it's pinewood derby season my focus was on my son and working with him at his meeting and also answering his questions about this which are surprisingly few. He is concerned, but not in a worried state that I can tell.

After that I went to visit her to see how she was being treated and to see that she is safe. Long story short she got angry, told me to leave, got angry when I went to leave, got angry when I went to stay... .I gave her one last opportunity to stop fighting and with that left for the night.

Had a good conversation with her mom and brother and so far there is a consensus that this was necessary.
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« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2018, 09:36:34 AM »

> "Long story short she got angry, told me to leave, got angry when I went to leave, got angry when I went to stay... .I gave her one last opportunity to stop fighting and with that left for the night."

Well done - I've fallen for that a lot. The situation sounds pretty chaotic and while you seem to handle it well, it sounds like a recipe for continuing drama and must be taking more of a toll. Hope you can find a path towards a more permanent solution.
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« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 10:30:49 AM »

Good morning, Tired_Dad:

Last night was a good night for reinforcing my limit setting.

I think that's great.

Excerpt
After that I went to visit her to see how she was being treated and to see that she is safe. Long story short she got angry, told me to leave, got angry when I went to leave, got angry when I went to stay... .I gave her one last opportunity to stop fighting and with that left for the night.

Although this all sounds perfectly horrible for both of you, you are handling it like a strong, mature adult. This is, at least, a good model for your wife to witness. She needs to see what the ramifications of her behavior look like.

Excerpt
Had a good conversation with her mom and brother and so far there is a consensus that this was necessary.

I'm glad they were able to see with their own eyes what's going on and to validate what you're going through.


No need to tell you to hang in there, because, heck, that's your middle name! But, if you need to dump your chunky thoughts somewhere, we're always listening.


-Speck
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« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2018, 11:58:01 AM »

So she has been placed in a bed in a facility and to me that is the best thing that can happen for her. She was informed today or last night by the psychologist/psychiatrist (not sure which) that they will not be releasing her over the weekend that because she was sectioned that they have 72hrs and weekends don't count.

She was angry of course, stating that if she knew this she wouldn't have gone to crisis. Ranting about having a "bad day" and upset that the Dr. did not introduce himself and that he was unprofessional.

All that said she has been having a bad decade, not day. If she didn't go to crisis we would probably be preparing for a funeral and not gathering her a change of clothes, and as with all interactions with a BPD I am suspect whenever someone is labeled as unprofessional or rude as it often isn't the case (not never, but just often enough to never trust that assessment).

I am keeping my limits. I am letting her mother take the lead and supporting but not rescuing. My son is currently adapting well, and the house is calm and is actually getting clean as I can make as much noise cleaning as I want without worrying about triggering her.

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« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2018, 12:24:00 PM »

Hey TD, It sounds like you are doing fairly well under very stressful circumstances.  Glad to hear you are keeping your limitations in mind.  Make sure to take care of YOU in the midst of everything else.  Hang in there and keep us posted,

LJ
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« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2018, 11:28:21 PM »

Hello, Tired_Dad:

Just wanted to pop in and tell you how much I admire the way you're handling this latest episode. Your Son, no doubt, is benefitting from your continued presence.


-Speck
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« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2018, 08:42:31 AM »

Small update.

I took my son to visit his mother on Sunday and it went well. The visits are supervised at their facility and that may have aided in her keeping her composure. However she is actually taking her medication and eating so I'm sure that is having an impact.

My son is dealing with all of this fairly well. He is concerned about his mother, but not overwhelmed or worried about the situation. He is being great and is taking on some additional responsibilities and it opened up the discussion for a formal allowance arrangement for him to recognize his increased responsibility. He is doing some limit testing, but that can be expected in a situation like this.

As a side note he drew a picture of a house for her, and as she is an art therapist she inherently interprets it. There is a bit of a standard to it that indicates stability and a sense of safety in children and my son without prompting hit all of the key measures in the drawing. It's not the most definitive test ever, but it is nice to see that by some quantitative measure he is doing well.

She did get upset on the phone with me on Sunday night. My father fell down and I was staying there to help him out and my son was at her mother's for the night to help out with the situation. My wife called me and was asking rapid fire questions about the situation faster than I could answer her and then drifted into negative projection on "busy bodies" in my family that know too much about what is going on with her. I did not JADE with her, explained that I will answer the questions that she asks and if she slowed down I would be happy to discuss with her. She stated she wanted to end the conversation several times to which I answered "ok" to and she just became more angry that I was just putting my hands up or that I was running away when things get hard. She even attempted to reference back to the ER when I set my limit with her and refused to stay when she kept telling me to leave and complaining when I would go.

We ended the conversation and she was crying and upset and I really didn't have any sympathy or even any empathy for it as I held my ground and would not be blamed for her choices.

She is trying to get released early. I am considering going to a lawyer over the next day or so and consulting with them. I am mulling over having a protective order issued or some other kind of legally binding arrangement that will keep her out of the house if she does not complete the program or leaves against the judgment of a Dr. I feel if she gets herself back into the house without truly addressing her issues that she will just fall back into her negative behaviors and dig in like a tick and will be much harder to remove when the time comes.
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« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2018, 08:27:12 PM »

Hello, Tired_Dad:

Good to hear from you again. I just have a couple of things to add:

She is trying to get released early. I am considering going to a lawyer over the next day or so and consulting with them. I am mulling over having a protective order issued or some other kind of legally binding arrangement that will keep her out of the house if she does not complete the program or leaves against the judgment of a Dr.

I imagine that the 72-hour window for SI holds is over by now. I think it's great that she's participating in an inpatient program. Is this program designed to be ongoing for a set number of days?

Excerpt
I feel if she gets herself back into the house without truly addressing her issues that she will just fall back into her negative behaviors and dig in like a tick and will be much harder to remove when the time comes.

I hear you on that point and know it must weigh heavy on your mind. Let us know how it goes.


-Speck
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« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2018, 01:49:12 PM »

So as of 1130 today she was released from the local treatment facility.

I'm ambivalent that she is home and I can only hope that she uses the last week as a stepping stone to further her own health.

The new down side, apparently her stay there triggered a contact with DCF and now an investigator is meeting with my son at his school, will be meeting with my wife after that and wants to meet with me at her office tomorrow. Though I am glad on some levels that there is a bit of oversight into her release, I am not thrilled with any DCF involvement as it can spin out of control very far and very fast. I do not anticipate that there will be any issues as my son is not abused by either of us (there is a her overall behavior that can rise to the level of emotional abuse but that is for another post) the house is clean, we have food, and the bills are paid.

It probably would've been better if I had the time to get some legal assistance and sorted out if she should be in the house or not. Right now I need to deal with the situation as it is and will see if she is rational and following her treatment plan when I get home and make some decisions then.
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« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2018, 02:19:17 PM »

Hang in there, Tired Dad.  You are holding up well in an incredibly stressful situation.  BTW, I was once involved in a DCF investigation myself due to my Ex's abusive behavior towards me, not the kids, triggered by a report filed by a former T who was concerned about what was happening to me under the same roof as my kids.  The DCF investigation is a pain in the neck and intrusive for your son, but I'm confident that you can get through it OK because neither of you have abused your son.  Same thing happened with me: neither of us ever abused the kids and the investigation was a non-starter.

LuckyJim

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« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2018, 03:02:39 PM »

Tired_Dad:

I know you are not delighted by this turn of events, but from all that you have shared with us thus far, it sounds like you are a zen master of just rolling with what life brings you.

I, too, am glad that there is some oversight concerning your wife's recent discharge from a mental facility, but like you, I wouldn't relish the DCF showing up at my front door. It's just one more layer of drama to add to the already thick shellack of it coating your life right now.

We're always here... .


-Speck
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« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2018, 01:22:33 PM »

Today at my lunch I met with the worker from DCF. The woman was very professional and showed genuine interest in my son and in the wellbeing of my wife.

We spoke for nearly an hour and she indicated that she believes that my son is safe in the house and that there is adequate support to keep my son safe. We discussed her diagnosis a bit and Borderline was a diagnosis that she used and did state that my wife disputes this. Hearing that is reassuring to me as it does help reaffirm that I am not going crazy and when she tries to gaslight me.

It was also nice to get an affirmation from an outside source that I am using skills appropriately and that my influence is apparent in my son.
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« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2018, 02:00:30 PM »

Hello again, Tired_Dad:

It was also nice to get an affirmation from an outside source that I am using skills appropriately and that my influence is apparent in my son.

Whew! Well, that went over well. And, yes, I'm glad that you have a second pair of eyes on this that confirms for you that you are stalwartly doing your part in this madness. Did the DCF worker already have the BPD diagnosis on the tip of her tongue, or did she simply agree with your take on the matter?


-Speck
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« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2018, 06:25:05 PM »

The social worker had BPD in her notes before speaking with me.
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« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2018, 06:40:22 PM »

That must have been validating for you TD.  I'm so pleased to see that things are moving in a positive direction for you.  Where from here?

Love and light x
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« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2018, 09:33:16 PM »

The social worker had BPD in her notes before speaking with me.

Ahhhhh... .well, as unfortunate as it is to have a loved one diagnosed with BPD, I am glad that others know what is going on for your wife and, by extension, what YOU are having to deal with.

I hope you have a good weekend.


-Speck
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« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2018, 07:15:53 AM »

So we have moved pretty solidly from a husband & wife relationship into a relationship that is on the line somewhere closer to adult & petulant teenager.

Her current contribution to the family is as before and after school care for my son. She spent the majority of the past several days and the weekend either up in the bedroom that she has claimed or out of the house. She even missed attending my son's pinewood derby on Saturday as she didn't want to be social.

I would normal be complaining about this, however life has been moving much more smoothly this way. She isolates herself in a room, and then has a minor fit that no one wants to be around her. We don't engage with her if it can be avoided and life moves on.

I feel as if she will be moving out soon, especially if she manages to land a job. I can only hope that for my son's sake she stabilizes a bit so that he can have a schedule with her. If not I will give him the support he needs and help him understand what is going on the best that I can.

I have also started to get down on paper my draft for a separation agreement to get the process of division of assets and initial custody sorted out. I don't anticipate that she will sign it willingly, but it will help to give a starting point and something to give my lawyer as what my goals are.
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« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2018, 07:36:20 PM »

Staff only

Hello, I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.
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