At one point I felt deeply seen and heard? How was he able to fake that?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My self esteem was shot when my ex came into my life and he made me feel 'seen'.

I realized reading this that I had also felt ‘seen’. Also I loved that I felt heard. I felt like my thoughts mattered. It’s so weird because now I feel like the person doesn’t have the capacity to understand me in the simpliest way. But at one point I felt deeply seen and heard? How is that possible? How was he even able to fake it? Because now it seems like there is almost a handicapped of not being able to understand anything. But at one time he did so much that it was this profound thing?

>>This thread was split from Original Topic as it is a worthwhile discussion in itself.

[tiki]

My self esteem was shot when my ex came into my life and he made me feel 'seen'.

I realized reading this that I had also felt ‘seen’. Also I loved that I felt heard. I felt like my thoughts mattered. It’s so weird because now I feel like the person doesn’t have the capacity to understand me in the simpliest way. But at one point I felt deeply seen and heard? How is that possible? How was he even able to fake it? Because now it seems like there is almost a handicapped of not being able to understand anything. But at one time he did so much that it was this profound thing?

>>This thread was split from Original Topic as it is a worthwhile discussion in itself.

[Skip]

But at one point I felt deeply seen and heard? How is that possible?

Don't you think it was because you were heard and seen?

The attraction in a lot of these relationships is the idealization of us. In the early stages of a compelling relationship, a person with BPD will invest their heart and soul. Its amazing.

Its helpful to look at the phases of a "BPD" relationship.

Love - the Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female (or male) may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor. In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she portrays herself as the "victim of love" and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her emotions advance upon you, you will hear how no one understands her - except you. Other people have been "insensitive." She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something "special" about you, because "you really seem to know her".

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized - almost worshipped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable -- and you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time as the conversation is intense, and her attention, and her eyes are always so deeply focused on you. Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire.

Like many things that seem too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder idealization.

It will all seem so real because it is real in her mind. But what is happening is not what you perceive to be happening.

More phases here

[Harley Quinn]

Hi tiki,

Skip has hit the nail on the head with this.  What we're experiencing at the outset is an intense fascination in us, as we're put on a pedestal and are the best thing since sliced bread.  It's very captivating to suddenly feel so completely understood, and recognised for the individuals we are with all of our strengths.  During this time it is as if we can do no wrong.  However eventually we turn out to be less than flawless our BPD partner enters the devaluation stage.  How the mighty have fallen. 

When I look back at my relationship objectively, it strikes me that to put so much into adoring and idealising a new partner as a pwBPD does must surely be exhausting!  It is so intense and can be overwhelming to be on the receiving end.  I remember asking myself if all of this could really be real - pinching myself almost as it was like a dream come true.  Little did I know! 

What I realise now is it would be pretty impossible for anyone to sustain the level of focus and energy that must surely go into such intense idealisation for any extended length of time before burning out and no longer being able to continue at that level.  That is when the cracks show and less desirable behaviour comes to the surface.  It's no longer surprising to me that things can swing so dramatically from one extreme to the other.   

How are you doing right now?  What's the situation with your r/s?

Love and light x

[TurbanCowboy]

I like the shiny new toy replacing the old, stale, broken down toy analogy.

I remember getting video games Xmas morning and I would play that game all Xmas day and Xmas break.  A year later that game had been collecting dust and I was trading it in for pennies on the dollar to buy a new game. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I recently got nostalgic and played a game from 1996 with my brother. I remembered how fun it was then, a game I got bored with a long time ago. It was fun having not played it in so long.

When my wife and I started dating 10 years ago she ignored many red flags I had while I was ignoring red flags she had. My wife was envisioning what I could be and there was no way I was ever going to live up to those expectations.

My replacement has two failed marriages in the last 6 years. If my wife’s brother was doing what she is doing, my wife would say he’s insane.

It’s a weird thing to observe. When it doesn’t impact her personally, she’s capable of making obvious observations regarding unacceptable behavior and decision making. When it comes to analyzing her own behavior and decision making, she regresses into someone who is mentally challenged.

Back to your original question, when things are new and fresh, they can be more fun and interesting. After a while things get stale and devalued.

My wife told me she felt alive again with the new guy. She felt alive again with me once upon a time.

[araneina]

I remember standing in my ex's kitchen, him up against the stove, me across the way.  This was about 6 weeks into our relationship.  He looked at me and smiled shyly and said "You're the first person I've ever felt I could truly be myself around."  I can still see how he smiled at me.  It's a very vivid memory because it meant so, so much to me.

It warmed my heart in more ways than I can describe.  It still makes me feel that way.  However in time, after speaking to several people with pwBPDexes, it seems as though that is a common thing these people say to us.  It hooks us.  It makes us feel different and special.  He always said that to me.  "You're different."

But yeah, he was idealizing me.  I don't think he was faking it.  I think he truly felt that way.  But I doubt it was unique to me.  Or to you.  It's just how they operate.  I dunno.  You're not alone.

[tiki]

Don't you think it was because you were heard and seen?

The attraction in a lot of these relationships is the idealization of us. In the early stages of a compelling relationship, a person with BPD will invest their heart and soul. Its amazing.

Its helpful to look at the phases of a "BPD" relationship.

Love - the Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female (or male) may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor. In the beginning

More phases here

Actually he is a white knight. He is very protective of others feelings in the beginning. He likes helping. He seems to like it if people have sad problems they need him for. He takes on your problems.  Then he gives an enormous amount of support. Does that sound typical of a type?

[Pretty Woman]

Tiki,
  Skip, Harley are right... .Idealization. At the beginning your partner took on your interests, your traits. What you actually fell in love with was the BEST part of YOU.

I don't think your ex was faking anything... .it's just part of the narrative. The real "him" was what you saw when the mask or wheels fell off. When they start to unravel is usually when you see them for who they are at their core, stripped down.

[tiki]

Tiki,
  Skip, Harley are right... .Idealization. At the beginning your partner took on your interests, your traits. What you actually fell in love with was the BEST part of YOU.

I don't think your ex was faking anything... .it's just part of the narrative. The real "him" was what you saw when the mask or wheels fell off. When they start to unravel is usually when you see them for who they are at their core, stripped down.

I don’t know what’s real. I feel like when he claimed to unravel it was a lie. And now when he doesn’t care because he has this other person I feel like that’s the real him. I see a completely callous person. While actually he is being super nice elsewhere.

[Jeffree]

How was he even able to fake it? Because now it seems like there is almost a handicapped of not being able to understand anything.

He didn't fake it. It was what he felt and how he acted at one point. But then his ability to stay in that place with you ended because of the disorder... .

People with borderline personality disorder also tend to view things in extremes, such as all good or all bad. Their opinions of other people can also change quickly. An individual who is seen as a friend one day may be considered an enemy or traitor the next. These shifting feelings can lead to intense and unstable relationships.


It sounds to me as though what you are really questioning is why did you fall for this so-called act of his? How did you not pickup on what a d1ckh3ad he is before you fell for him?

Hey, it happens. The beginnings with a BPD are particularly oceanic and euphoric. If you were to run away from someone like that, you'd have to wonder "What am I thinking? He's perfect!"

Yes, the old saying goes, "if something seems too good to be true, chances are it is." Knowing this, we still sometimes get tricked.

J

[araneina]

Yes, the old saying goes, "if something seems too good to be true, chances are it is." Knowing this, we still sometimes get tricked.

J

I brought this up with my therapist.  I told her how, at one point during the idealization stage in my relationship, I said to a girlfriend "It seems too good to be true.  When is the other shoe going to drop?"  And then, of course... .it dropped.  A huge goddamn BOOT dropped.

I said to my therapist that my intuition has been correct again and again and again with men, and I wish I had been more cognizant of it this time around.  She disagreed with me and said "too good to be true," isn't a bad thing, and that I was being too analytical.  I don't know - I didn't particularly agree with her on that.  I've been in honeymoon stages before with men but I NEVER thought "This is too good to be true," until my ex.

[tiki]

How was he even able to fake it? Because now it seems like there is almost a handicapped of not being able to understand anything.

He didn't fake it. It was what he felt and how he acted at one point. But then his ability to stay in that place with you ended because of the disorder... .

People with borderline personality disorder also tend to view things in extremes, such as all good or all bad. Their opinions of other people can also change quickly. An individual who is seen as a friend one day may be considered an enemy or traitor the next. These shifting feelings can lead to intense and unstable relationships.


It sounds to me as though what you are really questioning is why did you fall for this so-called act of his? How did you not pickup on what a d1ckh3ad he is before you fell for him?

Hey, it happens. The beginnings with a BPD are particularly oceanic and euphoric. If you were to run away from someone like that, you'd have to wonder "What am I thinking? He's perfect!"

Yes, the old saying goes, "if something seems too good to be true, chances are it is." Knowing this, we still sometimes get tricked.

J

Well I guess it's slightly different since I fell for him as a friend not a love interest. So for me its about the loss of a friend and not a love interest. It's dumbfounding.  But it really is about how someone can be so careful with your feelings initially and then so careless and hurtful. It was like he went out if his way to injure me and leave me like that. Unconcerned.

But I'm also puzzled as to how it works. But I think I'm getting better understanding. I can't tell you how weird it was to hear him expressing the same level of sensitivity he had for me for someone else. I hadnt even seen that trait in years. Literally three years. So to see that he could still do that was so weird and enlightring.

But yeah too good to be true. And it was so fast. I was telling him I loved him like days after I met him. It felt so profound.

[tiki]

Don't you think it was because you were heard and seen?

It actually hurts more to think it was real.  And if that was real (being heard and seen) then do they fake the other stage? The stage where they seem not to understand anything. Do they just pretend to not get things? Like when everything gets twisted and distorted. Do they pretend then like they couldn’t pick reality out of a line up?

I guess I just never will understand how they can at one time be capible of understanding and then at another not be. So are they faking the other stage? I just don’t understand.

I think I need to feel like the beggining was a fake, but then if it was a fake they couldn’t have faked it that well without having things like awareness and empathy.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi tiki,

It's all real.  I know that's hard to comprehend (trust me I've been stood exactly where you are and asking the same questions).  What we can describe it as is this.  To a BPD sufferer, feelings = facts.  When we are idealised, that person truly adores us, is intent on listening to us, understanding us, even studying us, and hanging on our every word.  When those feelings change, so do the behaviours.  We are not the same person any more and they feel animosity towards us.  The emotions a pwBPD feels are intensified many times over the way that we experience the same emotions and the feelings can shift suddenly.  There is a tendency towards black and white thinking, so we are either all good or all bad.  There is no in between.  Have you read about splitting?   

Here's a quote from a workshop on the site:

By the way, what usually triggers the "all-bad" split from the stance of the "all-good" split often is the very thing that you as a non borderline long so much for with this borderline in your life - closeness or intimacy.

Did you find that you were feeling close when things suddenly changed direction?  A pwBPD can struggle intensely with fear of engulfment, meaning that when you seem to be becoming closer, they can pull away and begin to devalue you.  Learning this allowed me to make more sense out of things that had happened in my r/s.  (If you're interested in reading more from this workshop, you can find it Here.)

Love and light x

[tiki]

Hi tiki,

It's all real.  I know that's hard to comprehend (trust me I've been stood exactly where you are and asking the same questions).  What we can describe it as is this.  To a BPD sufferer, feelings = facts.  When we are idealised, that person truly adores us, is intent on listening to us, understanding us, even studying us, and hanging on our every word.  When those feelings change, so do the behaviours.  We are not the same person any more and they feel animosity towards us.  The emotions a pwBPD feels are intensified many times over the way that we experience the same emotions and the feelings can shift suddenly.  There is a tendency towards black and white thinking, so we are either all good or all bad.  There is no in between.  Have you read about splitting?   

Here's a quote from a workshop on the site:

Did you find that you were feeling close when things suddenly changed direction?  A pwBPD can struggle intensely with fear of engulfment, meaning that when you seem to be becoming closer, they can pull away and begin to devalue you.  Learning this allowed me to make more sense out of things that had happened in my r/s.  (If you're interested in reading more from this workshop, you can find it Here.)

Love and light x

I guess I have a different experience. I wasn’t in a relationship. I only wanted to be friends. So it was ugliness from him for three years since he decided I should be in a relationship with him. He would tell me he loved me during that time while constantly telling me everything that was wrong with me. I mean in terms of devaluing or idealizing me. The way he would speak to me sounded like devaluation but I don’t think it was a devaluation phase. He still was trying with me so it must have been idealization still.

So I think I skipped the devaluation stage and went straight into the discard phase. He moved on the someone else as he should have. I wanted him to since day one.  But I didn’t realize that I wouldn’t even be a human to him after that.

Then again he is using me to get sympathy and painting me black and just using me as a tool for something he wants himself. Using my reputation if it helps him in any way.

So maybe that is devaluing? Maybe that is this stage too? I really would like perspective on this. Is this that stage?

But I was manipulated into not being able to separate myself from him through threats of self harm. And I knew it might be bull but I also couldn’t take the risk that it wasn’t.

But he ran down my mental health and now that he has someone else It becomes clear how he has no empathy or concern for me.

I wrongly accepted treatment I shouldn’t have and it really ended up causing me mental problems. I was really nearly destroyed and in pain and it was like no degree of care.

Is this also devaluation? Because he always wanted to spin anything against me. And use validation he received from others to bolster his view of reality. That’s now new in a way. But maybe he really believes that stuff? That scares me. That someone could really believe a bunch of stuff. I always figure he knows on some level it’s bull. But maybe he just lives there now and believes it? God that is such a scary thought. That someone can believe their own bull___

But it’s my belief that they actually also don’t care. After they are done with you  I mean. If he doesn’t care he probably isn’t invested in devaluing me.

His only interest in me is how can he use me or advantage himself when it comes to using me in stories and his manipulation of others.

[Harley Quinn]

It's a behaviour pattern that applies to all relationships.  Friends and family members also receive this type of treatment.  All of the dysfunctional behaviour - that which you have been on the receiving end of - stems from the same fears.  Those of abandonment and engulfment.  It sounds to me like he was frustrated with you for not meeting his needs in becoming the type of relationship he was seeking, and whilst idealising he can also switch to devaluation.  They switch often.  I could be the best thing in the world one moment and the next the worst person he had ever met, only to switch back later that day.  Splitting and projection were two of the most frequent visitors to our relationship.  He would often project his own actions and motives onto me.  :)id you find that also?  

Have you now discontinued the treatment tiki?  Would you like to talk about how you are doing right now?  I know myself how hard it was to understand everything early on and how desperately I sought answers.  It took me a while to begin considering my own needs.  After being involved with someone who can be very demanding on us it can be emotionally and physically exhausting.  How are you feeling?

Love and light x

[Mutt]

Hi tiki,

 

The way he would speak to me sounded like devaluation but I don’t think it was a devaluation phase. He still was trying with me so it must have been idealization still.

I wonder if you mean he didn’t respect you? It sounds like he didn’t have healthy r/s skills he said rotten things about you to probably elevate himself because he doesn’t have a strong sense of self or high self esteem so he was taking it out on you?

So I think I skipped the devaluation stage and went straight into the discard phase. He moved on the someone else as he should have. I wanted him to since day one.  But I didn’t realize that I wouldn’t even be a human to him after that.

I’m sorry I don’t know your back story did you set a boundary that he didn’t like and went in to someone else? On the topic of boundaries, the silver lining o these types of toxic r/s is that it shows you the areas that are soft and need tweaking. For example you didn’t want him to stick around? Another option in the future is that you don’t create a friendship or if there is friendship terminate it early.

You can’t control someone else you can only control your actions and reactions. So if someone similar comes around in yh future you could put a boundary on yourself and something to yourself like “This person raises too many red flags I’ve been through something like this before and I respect myself too much for someone to take advantage of me I refuse to be friends or interact with this person”

I’ve heard Skip and correct me if I’m repeating the wrong way if you flip no contact around you’re in the receiving end of it it makes you feel subhuman. I completely understand I’ve had people go no contact with and it hurt and I’ve been in minimal contact with my exuBPDw because she doesn’t have healthy r/s skills and I self protect some people may be avoidant be because they are too ashamed of something that they have done.

Your friend probably knows that his behaviour with how he left you and others is hurtful and he’s avoidant because he’s ashamed of his actions.

Then again he is using me to get sympathy and painting me black and just using me as a tool for something he wants himself. Using my reputation if it helps him in any way.

So maybe that is devaluing?

It’s already been determined that he doesn’t have the necessary skills for healthy r/s’s instead of devaluation do you feel like he you were an ends to a means for him?

But I was manipulated into not being able to separate myself from him through threats of self harm. And I knew it might be bull but I also couldn’t take the risk that it wasn’t.

I’m sorry that you went through the SI illicits Guilt from FOG. You’re absolutely right that you take that chance! I’d suggest to call emergency services they’re trained professionals that are skilled at this sort of thing. It’s hard to talk someone down from a ledge the next time call.

That someone could really believe a bunch of stuff. I always figure he knows on some level it’s bull. But maybe he just lives there now and believes it? God that is such a scary thought. That someone can believe their own bullplease read              

I remember having terrible rails trying to convince my exuBPDw and I understand your situation is different than mine and different from other members but similar truth weaves through all of our stories in this forum. I realized that how I view the world and how I interpret it is not the same way that the next person interprets reality. Emotions and feelings are real between each person but how two people interpret reality is open to debate. I’m just using debate as an example I’m not encouraging it with others. I had to accept that some people don’t see things the same as I do they’re not looking out for my best interest I had work to do with boundaries. I didn’t have any and it made me think how does someone else other than myself know what’s best for me? I’m putting myself at risk or the potential for harm, it’s something that I have to take care of myself.

Again I’m sorry that you went through this your anger is completely justifiable and understood in this forum. Anger is not all bad it helps us to detach from unhealthy r/s’s continue on with detaching and become indifferent to his behaviours, you neither like it or hate it.

[Gunit1]

I kmow there is always the idealisation, devalue and discard.

But does the devalue come regardless or before of another new shiny toy?

My ex was lovey all way through, sure we had fights but always lovey and consistent most time up until she started cheating with new guy and knew she was withdrawing and then led to discard. This normal?

[tiki]

It's a behaviour pattern that applies to all relationships.  Friends and family members also receive this type of treatment.  All of the dysfunctional behaviour - that which you have been on the receiving end of - stems from the same fears.  Those of abandonment and engulfment.  It sounds to me like he was frustrated with you for not meeting his needs in becoming the type of relationship he was seeking, and whilst idealising he can also switch to devaluation.  They switch often.  I could be the best thing in the world one moment and the next the worst person he had ever met, only to switch back later that day.  Splitting and projection were two of the most frequent visitors to our relationship.  He would often project his own actions and motives onto me.  Did you find that also? 

Have you now discontinued the treatment tiki?  Would you like to talk about how you are doing right now?  I know myself how hard it was to understand everything early on and how desperately I sought answers.  It took me a while to begin considering my own needs.  After being involved with someone who can be very demanding on us it can be emotionally and physically exhausting.  How are you feeling?

Love and light x

I think I’ve figured out what is happening to me. I’m being used to be the aggressor figure. In a standard sort of triangulation. He met this girl. She works two blocks from my house at a coffee shop. She seems like an amazing girl. I walked in there when I saw his car outside to see how life is for someone after they make someone else suffer in pain for a week. After driving down my mental health he was at a coffee bar super happily hanging out. But I guess I more than walked in there. I was in an altered state of like acting uncharacteristicly. I actually said are you enjoying your latte?

I was very confused why he contacted me in the first place. I should add we hadn't been talking before January but he always sends occasional texts. And in one of these texts that I don’t respond to he had told me he was struggling with knowing if this girl likes him. So he went out of his way to make me aware of the fact that there is this other person.

Did he just want friendship support for dealing with this new person? I wondered. Some of his messages even sounded desperate to talk to me mixed in there. Which was strange because he didn’t really care. I feel like the desperate tone was even misleading. He is over it.

At the same time he has said things like I would throw her overboard for you. Or I would rather it be you. But I know it’s not true. It’s interesting how you really have to learn to trust your learned observation over what they say. I can tell he has no sensitivity toward me anymore and he is already deep in another headspace. Which is that person being his new center. So he is lying and I think it’s manipulation.

But I am so being brought in to be the aggressor and the abuser.

Because here is my headspace. I have had mental problems from this and somehow have to fight urges to get answers or conversation. Or I don’t even know what. I feel extremely triggered by him. He said he would help me only to provoke me. When I was already in a vulnerable state. And it’s worse now because he doesn’t care if he losses me.

So I get triggered to acting and crazy and boom. I’m the abuser.

He needed me to be a catalyst in this potential new relationship. And that’s all my wasted mental health is to him.

Isn’t it funny that someone can not just simply not care about your mental health but use it in their favor?

So I was confused why he brought me back again. And then he even said he wanted to be friends. And then he said he wants me to be friends with that girl and we can all be friends. But the way he is treating me and triggering me I truely think I don’t matter to him so I can’t understand why he would say he wants to be friends.

Could you please advise? Does this sound like a realistic picture of what is happening? And yeah I’ve lost five pounds this week. I spent days in bed just crying from psychological pain. It hurts to know that a person could so not care about another person’s psychological pain.

[zachira]

One of the biggest challenges in life is to see people for who they really are.  People who are truly loving are comfortable in their own skin, and will appreciate your good qualities, yet will respectfully disagree with you sometimes. One of the best indicators of who a person really is are the types of relationships they have with family, friends, and coworkers. It can be helpful to ask trusted friends how they see this person. I also trust people who take responsibility for their mistakes, who most of the time speak well of others, and do not have a constant need to put others down.

[tiki]

Hi tiki,

 

I wonder if you mean he didn’t respect you? It sounds like he didn’t have healthy r/s skills he said rotten things about you to probably elevate himself because he doesn’t have a strong sense of self or high self esteem so he was taking it out on you?

I’m sorry I don’t know your back story did you set a boundary that he didn’t like and went in to someone else? On the topic of boundaries, the silver lining o these types of toxic r/s is that it shows you the areas that are soft and need tweaking.

I realized that how I view the world and how I interpret it is not the same way that the next person interprets reality. Emotions and feelings are real between each person but how two people interpret reality is open to debate.

 Anger is not all bad it helps us to detach from unhealthy r/s’s continue on with detaching and become indifferent to his behaviours, you neither like it or hate it.

Hi! Thank you very much for responding. It’s funny I must have made headway on this path, . Because that statement about how everyone is entitled to their own reality was something that two or three weeks ago was new and helpful to me.

And then I realized HEY! If I’m willing to accept this for other people than why do I struggle so much to do the same for myself? I don’t know if I explained that right. But I feel like they try to rewrite your story so much you end up doubting yourself and desperate for validation. But why must I have this weakness? If I am willing to accept everyone has their own reality than I can also accept my story without needing anything from him. I feel like the reason I am so messed up over this is that I’m super vulnerable to being invalidated and doubting myself.

So it’s funny because I absorbed that understanding so I must be moving forward. Because when I read it I thought that was so last week. Mile 10.

[Jeffree]

If I am willing to accept everyone has their own reality than I can also accept my story without needing anything from him. I feel like the reason I am so messed up over this is that I’m super vulnerable to being invalidated and doubting myself.

I think that's one of the biggest "advantages" BPDs use against us. Whereas reality for them is everchanging and what they 100% have to believe, no matter how far from the actual truth it might be, we typically leave reality up for debate in an attempt to see it in its purest form.

For instance, if a BPD thinks the sky is falling, they will actually believe it, run for the hills, and hide in a cave.

We, on the other hand, will look up in the sky, look around, get some perspective, and ponder if that's the actual sky falling or our imagination, or why the sky would be falling as this moment, or ask someone else if they are seeing what we are seeing, or what have you.

J

[tiki]

One of the biggest challenges in life is to see people for who they really are.  People who are truly loving are comfortable in their own skin, and will appreciate your good qualities, yet will respectfully disagree with you sometimes. One of the best indicators of who a person really is are the types of relationships they have with family, friends, and coworkers. It can be helpful to ask trusted friends how they see this person. I also trust people who take responsibility for their mistakes, who most of the time speak well of others, and do not have a constant need to put others down.

I feel like he very consciously fakes behavior for others sake. Once we got past the initial stage he complained about people all the time. All the time!  But back during the early phase he never spoke bad about people. I’ve noticed now he will change a story so that the other person seems to blame and then appear to take the high road himself, saying he could never blame them.  He will build blame into the story only to say he could never blame. I think it’s effectively deceptive. I saw no red flags. And I’m not sure others do either initially. He absolutely seemed to take ressponsibility during that phase for actions with others. Did not speak ill of others. Did not put people down. He knows how to appear a certain way. And what is that? Is that typical?

He moved here from far away so I know of no close friends to ask. I do wonder what they would say.

But its king of scary because people do get duped. And it’s not always possible to know.

[Jeffree]

Yeah. You never know who you're really dealing with. It's pretty much always a crap shoot, though there does seem to be some things we can do to improve the odds of not being completely tricked.

J

[tiki]

Yeah. You never know who you're really dealing with. It's pretty much always a crap shoot, though there does seem to be some things we can do to improve the odds of not being completely tricked.

J

Yeah I knew him on the Internet first so of course there is no way to know like that. That was really pretty niave of me. It was weird because when he moved here he didn’t even seem like the same person. It was obvious so fast. And it was little things for me. How easily he lies. He didn’t even seem to enjoy the same hobbies he said he enjoyed. So in person hopefully it is different. I’m paranoid as hell now though. And I’ve seen him be deceiving to others and take on this really fake persona. And will people figure it out? I don’t know. He actually thinks he is qualified to date and is love bombing a girl whose boyfriend died a year ago. Scary right?

[Harley Quinn]

It’s interesting how you really have to learn to trust your learned observation over what they say.

You're absolutely right.  The actions speak louder than the words.  So often they are poles apart.  Many of us are taken in by the words that are said and it's one of the reasons a lot of us stay in the r/s too long. 

tiki, what are your feelings towards him right now and are they the same as they were during the friendship?  I'm asking if you think that your feelings developed into more at some point?  I know he is triggering you.  What is your plan?  Do you intend to remain in contact or to put some space between you right now?  It's so important to consider your own well being and at the moment you sound as though you could do with a rest from being drawn into the drama triangle you so rightly pointed out. 

Are you receiving any help from your doctor or a therapist?

Love and light x

[tiki]

You're absolutely right.  The actions speak louder than the words.  So often they are poles apart.  Many of us are taken in by the words that are said and it's one of the reasons a lot of us stay in the r/s too long. 

tiki, what are your feelings towards him right now and are they the same as they were during the friendship?  I'm asking if you think that your feelings developed into more at some point?  I know he is triggering you.  What is your plan?  Do you intend to remain in contact or to put some space between you right now?  It's so important to consider your own well being and at the moment you sound as though you could do with a rest from being drawn into the drama triangle you so rightly pointed out. 

Are you receiving any help from your doctor or a therapist?

Love and light x

Thank you so much. You give great advice.

My plans are most definitely to get a counsler. My goal is not to engage for 60 days.

It’s hard to explain my urge to engage and how strong it is. I did a bunch of break downs of the situation yesterday. I stuck a note to myself on my fridge that says: it is dangerous to seek understanding. I figured out that every time I seek validation I only cause myself more invalidation which only fuels the cycle more.

The biggest bummer in all of this is that I have to pass him everyday. I have to literally drive past the coffee bar with him in view and his car outside. I try to take a new route instead. Which is actually very helpful. Only it’s inconvenient and so I really have to make a commitment. And he’s still only two blocks away from my house.

Last time I engaged I was on day 10 of not engaging. There was a snow storm so I had to take the main route. Seeing him triggered me and much to my shock and horror I parked the car and went in to the cafe. The last thing I wanted to do.

So i need to drive the avoid route religiously for 60 days.

So those are my plans. I want no contact. I just can’t keep failing at it.

I do think it was triangulation. I was happy I figured that out. It saved me time.

Feelings. when he told me about this girl and I said are you texting her? And i thought it was funny how I blurted that out. because he’s a very funny texter. His humor used to be the best part of my life. And I did feel jealous that another person is getting that.

But that feels like just one of many feelings I have. I also feel like cool I don’t have to take abuse anymore.

[Jeffree]

I knew him on the Internet first

I reunited with my STBx via FB after losing touch with her for 20 years. It started out as a cross-country long-distance relationship. Now that I think about it, and I know it's odd to just NOW be thinking of this, we didn't spend any significant long amount of time together before we married 5 months later. Wow! That was really stupid on my part. 

First wife I had met at a BBQ and we dated for 3 years before getting married. That didn't work out either.

Like I said, it's pretty much a crap shoot out there.

J

[Harley Quinn]

His humor used to be the best part of my life. And I did feel jealous that another person is getting that.

But that feels like just one of many feelings I have. I also feel like cool I don’t have to take abuse anymore.

That's hard isn't it?  Knowing that someone else is getting the things that we valued so much.  I can relate to you there as I'm sure so many of us can.  It really stings.  Losing these things creates a space in our lives.  How are you filling that space and how do you handle the emotions as they arise?

As you said about the abuse, there are also aspects of these relationships that are not missed.  I began to appreciate really small things that I might have previously taken for granted.  Like being quiet just because I felt like it.  Or doing what I want to without having to explain myself.  Can you identify things that are positive changes in your world for the lack of abuse?  How is this affecting you?

Love and light x

[tiki]

That's hard isn't it?  Knowing that someone else is getting the things that we valued so much.  I can relate to you there as I'm sure so many of us can.  It really stings.  Losing these things creates a space in our lives.  How are you filling that space and how do you handle the emotions as they arise?

As you said about the abuse, there are also aspects of these relationships that are not missed.  I began to appreciate really small things that I might have previously taken for granted.  Like being quiet just because I felt like it.  Or doing what I want to without having to explain myself.  Can you identify things that are positive changes in your world for the lack of abuse?  How is this affecting you?

Love and light x

It really is a tangle of emotions. This was my friend for 10 years. He was an amazing friend back before we met in person. But of course in retrospect it was too great. It filled any emptyness in my life. His friendship power seemed to equal the power of five people.

I think so much pain comes from the fact that someone I thought held my feelings sacred did this to me. But I realized I have to rephrase that in my head. It wasn’t a person who cared that did this to me but a person who wasn’t what I thought he was. It just hurts more if you think this is someone who loved me.

Also considering he knew me well enough he had a lot to use to hurt me. He used blame and shame and almost seemed frustrated I wouldn’t break. It felt like having your own psychology used against you. So I think I’m actually messed up mentally.

So there are all these layers. And as far as a new person I thought maybe considering all my emotions maybe I was jealous but I’m not. It only bothers me that he now has no empathy for me as a person. And that he is upbeat after trashing my mental health. But would I choose a new friend that spoke to me the way he did? No. So I don’t envy someone getting involved with that. Had I known I wouldn’t have and probably neither would anyone else.

And yeah now I have to replace the level of support system he used to offer. And I’m aware of the hole in my life he left. But mostly I think I struggle from mental harm. And then also like I said above from somebody who I thought loved me.

Thank you for responding.

Also one of my main problems after this is arguing with myself. Basically defending myself to myself from all the bs and invalidation. I know everything he said to me is a bunch of garbage but how do I stop jading myself. I’m not in contact with him anymore but I am still defending myself and it’s just me.

[Harley Quinn]

And yeah now I have to replace the level of support system he used to offer. And I’m aware of the hole in my life he left. But mostly I think I struggle from mental harm.

How are you addressing this tiki?  It's great that you have this forum for support.
 Who do you also have in your life that you can speak to?  Friends, family?  Are you involved in any groups or activities in your community where you can enlist support?  What you've been through and are still coping with is extremely tough.  The mental and emotional impact of some of our experiences can be very all consuming and take a toll on our well being.  I found visiting my GP (doctor) was a wise move when I was feeling at breaking point.  Do you have a support system in place regards your mental well being? 

I know everything he said to me is a bunch of garbage but how do I stop jading myself. I’m not in contact with him anymore but I am still defending myself and it’s just me.

Your mind is still processing things it has difficulty making sense of.  Go easy on yourself.  Also remember that your nerves have been put to the test.  You have been caught in a fight or flight system (threat mode) during the difficulties you've faced with him and that can take a while to get out of.  One of the things you can do is focus on accessing the soothing emotional system, to balance your emotions.  Ways you can do this is by taking time to treat yourself with kindness.  Tap into any methods of relaxation that work well for you, connect with others even when you don't feel like it, take a walk outside in the fresh air somewhere peaceful, involve yourself for a few minutes a day in a hobby or activity that requires all of your attention and focus, notice when you are kind to others and when others are kind to you.  Allow yourself to take a couple of minutes to appreciate how that makes you feel.  Small steps add up and spending more time in the soothing emotional system reduces the time spent in the threat system.

What can you do to spend more time in soothing mode?

Love and light x