I just woke up

[engineer]

Hello everyone... .boy am I ready for this.

I feel like I just woke up from the strangest dream I've ever had and realized that I'm in a mosh pit at a thrash metal show.  Now I'm looking for the safety of the edge but I can't quite get there.

Let me tell you about my wife.  Oh, you probably already know all about her -- she has BPD (diagnosed twice or three times or never, depending on when I ask her).  What you may or may not know is that she is the most beautiful, caring, intelligent, lovely person I have ever met.  I sat in the kitchen with her the other day while she saved someone's life over the phone -- something she does with startling regularity.  She has empathy like nobody I've ever seen.  She has style and grace.  She is the most interesting person anyone has ever met... .and that's a good thing because she talks nonstop

And... she had lived alone for 30 years before I met her.  She moved in with me about a year ago and... .honestly I had no idea what was happening.  The past year is a blur.  Moreover *SHE* had no idea what was happening.  She knew she was "passionate", but because she lived alone she had not experienced the majority of the BPD symptoms until she met me.  She is currently waffling between the ideas that there is something seriously wrong with me since she never had the problem before, or she just can't live with anyone.  Bottom line is that she can't help how she behaves and she hates herself for it.  And I am tired of trying to thread the needle.  I always miss no matter how much I practice

After spending a lot of time on this site and others reading about BPD, this whole thing has started to make some sense.  Furthermore, I understand (and believe to my core) that it is up to me to make changes.  I am a recovering alcoholic -- been in the rooms since 2002 -- so I know all about changing myself and not others.  My favorite version of the serenity prayer is:  God help me accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me".

Let me make this clear:  I want this woman in my life.  I want her now and I want her forever.  I need to learn how to keep the two of us at the edge of the mosh pit rather than right in the center... .and that is what I am here to do.  I won't go into details yet, but the whole thing is going to require a lot of learning for me.  I'm not even quite sure how to go about setting boundaries, for example.  I've read a bunch about it, but... .um... .HOW?  I'll get there.  On the plus side, what I have learned so far has given me a degree of acceptance while my wife is raging, and that really helps me to not do things that make it worse, which I was definitely doing for a long time.

Thank you so much to the people who post here.  I have already learned so much from you.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi engineer and welcome!   

Kudos to you for putting the ball in your own court regarding making changes. I'm sure your experience as a recovering alcoholic has already given you many skills in this regard. Suggest you continue studying the skills in the box to the right and engage with other posters here for more context on your own situation.

You said you've developed a degree of acceptance for some of your wife's behaviors but you're also learning to set boundaries. What are some behaviors you think cross the line and how have you dealt with them thus far?

All the best,
~ROE

[I Am Redeemed]

 
Hi engineer! So glad you found us!

I love that version of the serenity prayer! I am in recovery as well. It sounds like you have a good foundation to start building from in terms of realizing that you can only change you and not someone else. This site can be incredibly empowering in terms of knowledge, skills, workshops, and reading about others' experience, strength and hope. Keep posting, we are listening and we are glad you are here!

Blessings and peace to you,

I Am Redeemed

[Speck]

Hello, engineer:

I just wanted to join the others in welcoming you to bpdfamily. You've probably lurked for a while and now have joined. That's wonderful because you have found the best place in the world for understanding, compassion, and education as it relates to BPD.

I'm sorry for what you're going through but also glad that you have found a community where many of us have been through similar experiences, and we can learn from each other.

I have found the site articles on setting boundaries very helpful.

Please tell us more when you feel comfortable doing so, and let us know what kind of help and support you hope to get here.


-Speck

[engineer]

Thank you so much for the welcomes!  I am really happy to be here.

Yesterday I was a little vague about asking for specific help because every time I started to think about the advice I would like to seek my brain flooded with about 1000 little every day problems I can't seem to work through.  I think the right approach for me is to try to solve one problem at a time.  I am, indeed, an engineer as my handle suggests, so my rules of problem solving are 1) address one problem at a time, and 2) change one thing at a time.

As I thought things through, I settled on one problem -- and it is the one that seems to cause me the most unnecessary stress as I run through every day:  I cannot introduce new topics/ideas/plans to my wife without an explosion.

For example, today I need to extend our rental car for another month (why there is a rental car when we have other perfectly good vehicles is a long story for another day).  Simple, right?  Call the rental company and give them my credit card info.  Haha, nope.  I instantly find myself in a tangle:

 - call and re-rent car myself --> explosion because I am "doing things on my own"
 - tell wife we need to re-rent car -->
        explosion because she's stressed already and why do I refuse to consider her feelings
        or, I didn't tell her about it in the right order and why do I refuse to consider her feelings
        or, I didn't tell her at the right time (there is no right time) and why don't I think
 - arrange time to talk with her about car -->
        demand to talk about it immediately and then explosion for incomprehensible reasons
 - allow wife to think of the car on her own -->
        explosion because she has to think of everything herself and why can't I initiate... .
        this explosion is usually the least intense of the choices so it is the one I find myself
        hoping for.

The *only* way I have been able to talk about things with her is when she brings up "the list".  She writes a list of things she needs to do and a list of things we need to do.  She goes over her list every day.  It's an extremely helpful habit, I think.  SOMETIMES... .only sometimes... .she goes over the list with me.  When she does that, if I am on my toes and I pick my times just right, I can add things to the list without an explosion.  I find she goes through the list with me once every couple of weeks.  She almost did last night.

And maybe I have just answered my own question (interesting how writing it helps me see things).   Next time she goes through the list with me, I will tell her how helpful that is.  I will tell her it really helps me to get my disorganized brain (eye roll, I know) focused.  That's risky, because helping me with all my (imaginary) problems motivates her to actually do something, but it also tends to make her resentful about yet another thing she has to "help" me with.  Probably a worthwhile risk.  If she will go through the list with me every night rather than making it a rare surprise event, then it can become a reliable way for me to communicate to her the things we need to do.

That doesn't help me with the rental car problem today... .but perhaps when we pay bills tonight (why we have to pay bills together is beyond me, but I will address that later) she will see the entry for the rental car and it will jog her memory.  I will take "why didn't you think of this?" flak, but that's usually about the best outcome I can hope for, as I said above.

[engineer]

Hi engineer and welcome!   

Kudos to you for putting the ball in your own court regarding making changes. I'm sure your experience as a recovering alcoholic has already given you many skills in this regard. Suggest you continue studying the skills in the box to the right and engage with other posters here for more context on your own situation.

You said you've developed a degree of acceptance for some of your wife's behaviors but you're also learning to set boundaries. What are some behaviors you think cross the line and how have you dealt with them thus far?

All the best,
~ROE

Hello ROE!

So... .there are two sets of behaviors that are hard to deal with 1) unintentional setting of "traps" -- I find myself in catch-22 situations all the time, and 2) the rage.

She is actually working on the rage herself at the moment.  I'm pretty proud of her for what she is doing right now.  I'm setting boundaries aside for a little while... .BUT the rage is where I would like to set them.

The typical pattern of the rage is:
I step on an invisible rake
She responds with derision and belittlement in a raised voice
She starts asking unanswerable questions
I try VERY hard to not defend myself, and not to reason with her, but I do not succeed very well -- I'm working on that.  I attempt to validate instead, but she always responds "that is such BS" when I attempt to validate.  So... .I need to work on that too.
Her voice gets louder and louder to the point where she is literally screaming, while she continues to bait me.
She starts throwing very hurtful insults, and this is where the relationship threats start.
Then she starts asking me why I continuously push her and will not leave her alone when she has clearly asked me to (she has not, prior this point, asked me to leave her alone, fwiw), and this is my first chance to exit the room and allow her to calm down.

The boundary I would like to set is:  The instant she raises her voice I will leave the room.  Because... .I know that if I can leave the room then she WILL calm down and apologise.  That will be the end of the rage.

Unfortunately, leaving the room at any point before she suggests it results in the worst rage she is capable of.  Much worse than if I just stay in the room and keep my composure while she unloads at me.

I am reading as much as I can on this, and I understand that I need to set the boundary while she is calm and ride out the "extinction burst" when I follow through on the boundary.  My problem is that she is, for good reason, fairly fragile at the moment and might actually not be able to ride out the burst with me.  Not giving her excuses, here... .she is actually in a fragile state due to real health issues.  I would like to enact the boundary-setting on this when she is in a better frame of mind and better state of health.  And, as I said, she is working on the rage herself and I don't want to undermine her efforts.

[waverider]

Couple of thoughts to throw into the mix

BPD empathy. This is often not what it seems in the same way you think of empathy. Most people know they are individuals, and can imagine the feelings of others, but they still know it is not them. pwBPD often have a weak sense of self, and at times show what seems like high levels of empathy, the difference is they are absorbing the other persons issues as though they are their own hence they can get overly affected. Some put up a total block to this, others let it all in and it can consume them. Or they can alternatively take on the. role of rescuer, as that is who they would like to be. They role play the rescuer that they want someone else to be to them. They can in fact turn the other persons mole hills into mountains, which is no help at all

There a lot of complex reactions to "empathy" but it is rarely in the same way 'nons" feel it... From non to over the top.

Your analogy re the mosh pit. You want to get to the side because you cant cope with out of control chaos. A pwBPD has lived all their life in the mosh pit, this is their normal, their comfort zone. Take them out of that zone and you can bet your bottom dollar they will jump right back into it. Chaos is relative to its environment, surround it with calm and it seems intensified, under the spotlight as to who is responsible for it. The perception of ownership of a specific chaos diminishes when surrounded by chaos. This is also one reason they create chaos in your life as that makes them feel "normal"

pwBPD often want people to rescue them, it validates their victimhood. Note I say "rescue" as in  "the process of", they dont want to be rescued as in "an end product". They want the process to continue indefinitely so the validation continues. Hence the goal post constantly move, and one drama morphs into the next

So what does this mean for you going forward. You need to be at the side of the mosh pit, while letting them be in the centre of it, but with the knowledge that you are there at the edges supporting, and not judging, them.

You cannot make them be like you, nor can you allow them to make you be like them

[formflier]

  You need to be at the side of the mosh pit, while letting them be in the centre of it, but with the knowledge that you are there at the edges supporting, and not judging, them.

You cannot make them be like you, nor can you allow them to make you be like them

I picked up on this thread because of the mention of boundaries. 

I describe boundaries as my #1 tool that contributed to the stability in my relationship.  I'll add "consistent boundaries" as a critical modifier there.  I was very lucky that early on, many senior members made that point effectively to me and I was ready for my pwBPD to "try to get me back in line".  I held... the boundary held.

I'm curious about your reasoning to set boundaries aside for a while.

I would implore you to keep them set aside until you are ready to leave them in place.  Again... be consistent.

Last... look at what I highlighted from Waverider.  There are lots of boundaries there. 

Let's assume that is you.

You are unapologetically "judging" for yourself where you need to be and you are doing that (side of pit).

At the same time you are using boundaries to avoid judging others (outside your boundaries).

A classic BPD trick is the "if you don't agree and join me you are judging me" manipulation.  Don't get involved in that.  Perhaps once say you see it different, then kind of a shoulder shrug and move along. 

Let them be in "their pit" and use their reasoning... .and you use theirs.  I'm convinced over time it is calming to them to know you are there and that you don't join in the crazy.

FF

[RolandOfEld]

Hi engineer and thanks for elaborating.

My problem is that she is, for good reason, fairly fragile at the moment and might actually not be able to ride out the burst with me. 

This is a unique situation. I don't know quite how to advise you best on this since there's a physical health component. I'll only say that everyone's situation is different and the usual advice of putting a hold on the discussion until the pwBPD settles down might not work for everyone. I tried it and it really didn't work for me;' she would chase me wherever I went. So I instead tried validation and remembering I didn't have to answer everything she said. It was my choice.

I'll also say that you are doing a ton of work to accommodate her illness. That's noble and shows your level of empathy and EQ. But please don't commit too much of your emotional energy to her before you've made sure your own tank is full. What are you doing to take care of and protect yourself?

~ROE

[Speck]

Hello, Engineer:

How are things going today?


-Speck

[engineer]

Hello, Engineer:

How are things going today?

-Speck

Today is good so far.  My wife is becoming a little more self-aware.  I had a post-surgery appointment this morning and she came with me.  For the first time, I think, EVER, we made it out of the house without issue and on time.  After trapping herself in the house for most of the past 6 months, she has made some changes to allow her to make it through her shower without a panic attack so we can actually get her out of the house on occasion.

We shall see what the day brings.  Normally she goes a little nonlinear between 4 and 6 pm because she hasn't taken a shower yet and for some reason I can't come home until she is showered and dressed... .but she won't tell me what she needs... .she wants me to tell her I am staying at work late for some reason unrelated to her.  That's happened enough times (almost every day for the past year) that I can generally guess what's going on and I don't step in any of the bear traps.

But, as I said, progress has been made.  Today she is showered already (before 6pm!) and it was a good experience for her, so maybe she will stop being so afraid of the shower.

And... .yeah, I'm all about complaining about the BPD craziness, but I gotta tell you the good stuff too.  I had surgery a couple of weeks ago.  My first surgery ever... .so, I was just a touch terrified.  She braved the shower panic (yes, I got screamed at, but that's neither here nor there) and got herself together and came with me and held my hand through the procedure (I had to be awake) and even managed not to pass out even though I could clearly see she was about to.  She really came through for me.

[Speck]

Hey, engineer!

Okay. Sounds like things are progressing well enough... .some give, some take. That's good. You haven't set off any bear traps, it seems... .

... .but do you have a plan for when you do finally step on one?

I must have missed the explanation about the fear/anxiety your wife has surrounding her daily shower?  If you don't mind my asking, what is all that about?

And... .yeah, I'm all about complaining about the BPD craziness, but I gotta tell you the good stuff too.

Yes, if you have positive stuff to report, please do! It all part of the process, and it's great to hear of happy resolutions/solutions to things.


-Speck

[engineer]

Hey, engineer!

Okay. Sounds like things are progressing well enough... .some give, some take. That's good. You haven't set off any bear traps, it seems... .

... .but do you have a plan for when you do finally step on one?

I must have missed the explanation about the fear/anxiety your wife has surrounding her daily shower?  If you don't mind my asking, what is all that about?
 

Yes, if you have positive stuff to report, please do! It all part of the process, and it's great to hear of happy resolutions/solutions to things.


-Speck

So... .the shower, oh my.

I am convinced there is more about the shower than I know.  But, the relevant panic attack triggers I know about are claustrophobia, body dysmorphia and an inability to handle temperature changes.

When we have to go somewhere she waits until the *last possible minute* to get in the shower, and even if she doesn't have any of the above issues, she panics because she runs out of time.

You know... .I am feeling pretty proud of us.  We have managed to work through the shower thing for the most part.  Today was really smooth.  Hopefully the improvements will stick.

[waverider]

My wife has the shower issues too, talks about it for hours first, then runs out of time. The delaying about having shower means when she has one that is the event for the day, there is no time left for anything else and she can't do anything before one as she is "about to have a shower".

When she was younger she would shower multiple times a day  to "scrub the badness out". She was diagnised OCD at the time because of it. Doesn't have that motivation now but I think there is a lingering association with it being a big deal.

Most likely a childhood anxiety association involved.

[engineer]

Does your wife have any diagnosis?  Seeking treatment for any of this stuff?

I have to say this is an unusual (in my experience) set of things to be dealing with. 

What are your thoughts about the most important "lesson" you had to learn or "mindset" you have to use when dealing with this?

Perhaps just as relevant, what have you tried and found ineffective?

FF

We are just scratching the surface of the issues she is dealing with.  And, no, she is not seeking treatment at the moment.  She talks about wanting to, and then she talks herself out of it.  I'm trying to keep it in the realm of "her idea" with gentle encouragement.  She has been told about her BPD, and received counseling about 20 years ago, but I think she would prefer to believe she has dissociative identity disorder.  And, oh for sure, her "alter" is a different person... .different mannerisms, different beliefs, different desires... .her face even looks different, and, my wife types about 90 words per minute and her "alter" hunts and pecks.  But I think it's a dissociative state rather than a full alternate personality.

*I* am in counseling for sure  I see my counselor again tomorrow.  My counselor agrees with what I have said above, but, obviously, would really like it if I could get my wife to come in for counseling herself.

So... .what have I tried... .besides everything  Honestly the thing I've tried that works best is working on myself.  I had a health issue (fixed by the surgery above) that was causing my cortisol and blood pressure to run out of control.  With that going on it was *very* hard to stay calm when she went on a rampage.  Within a day of my surgery my blood pressure went right down and my cortisol level went down to sort of normal, and now I have more "room" to handle her outbursts.  It's hard to keep your brain firing on all cylinders when you're in fight-or-flight mode before the fight even starts.  Also I found that a number of my learned conflict responses were seriously unhelpful; i.e. I had some bad behaviors as well.  For example, reacting sarcastically when I felt backed into a corner, or using an apology as a manipulation tool.  I worked with my counselor on those to get to the root of why I do it so I could erase those from my repertoire.  Also, focusing more on my recovery -- going to AA meetings and talking with my sponsor -- helps quite a bit.  When I am living with my own ego and insecurity it is a lot harder to find acceptance enough to help her deal with her issues.

What didn't work:  logic.  Stop logic-ing 'cause this is not logical.  When I think about what's going on and trying to make sense of it I start getting more upset and then I walk in to the room with a bad attitude, and that is just going to set her off.

Hey... .turns out this whole thing is good for me.  I'm learning a lot about myself  And since my wife is allergic to everything our diet is very simple and I've lost a lot of weight.

You know what... .I am going to sum it up like this:  The most fundamental thing I can do to make this work is to keep my attitude positive.

[engineer]

My wife has the shower issues too, talks about it for hours first, then runs out of time. The delaying about having shower means when she has one that is the event for the day, there is no time left for anything else and she can't do anything before one as she is "about to have a shower".

When she was younger she would shower multiple times a day  to "scrub the badness out". She was diagnised OCD at the time because of it. Doesn't have that motivation now but I think there is a lingering association with it being a big deal.

Most likely a childhood anxiety association involved.

Oh oh oh! YES!

My Saturday and Sunday schedule:

 - review the plans for the day with my wife
 - sit at the kitchen table while she tells me "I'm getting in the shower in 5 minutes" every half an hour... .can't leave the room and do something else because we have plans and she is JUST about to get in the shower!
 - deal with her meltdown when she realizes it's dinner time and she hasn't had a shower yet.
 - make new plans to have an "evening for us"
 - watch her scurry around the house getting distracted by one thing after another
 - deal with another meltdown because it's way past bedtime and we didn't get our evening.

Definitely childhood issues involved in the shower for her.  I hadn't thought about the scrubbing of the badness... .I will run that up the flagpole when I get home.  She won't salute but if she screams we may have hit on something.

Wow thank you.  The shower thing is SO bizarre and it made me quite ecstatic to read your post

[Speck]

Hello engineer!

Okay. Thank you for walking us through the shower thing. Yes, I have to agree with you, it is a little bizarre, but it seems as though you find the situation one in which you can learn and grow as well. So, that is definitely a plus. I imagine that logic does NOT work when dealing with your wife's shower phobia, so you must have found a way to put it into the realm of her issue while remaining supportive, which I think is great.

Also, keeping up with your AA meetings and T sessions gives you plenty to work on, yourself. And we all need support when dealing with pwBPD. So, good on you!


-Speck

[RolandOfEld]

Hey... .turns out this whole thing is good for me.  I'm learning a lot about myself smiley 

Good for you, engineer. That attitude will carry you through and lead to growth you never expected.

What I'm going through right now is the hardest thing I have ever been through in a less than easy life, but I also know its been long in coming. I needed this challenge to break a lifetime pattern of codependency, allowing myself to be bullied, and an overall lack of self-love. After this I feel as though there is nothing in the world that can bring me down.

Keep up the good work! 

~ROE

[waverider]

If you didn't have to live it then it would make a very successful sitcom... , that runs for many seasons due to the wealth of material available

[engineer]

If you didn't have to live it then it would make a very successful sitcom... , that runs for many seasons due to the wealth of material available

Heh, yes... .if I could achieve a little more detachment the entertainment value would be off the charts.

I managed that at work... .In the early 2000s I worked for 6.5 years at a company that everyone has heard of... .You probably have received many of their free CDs in the mail... .  I used to get SO ANGRY at work because of all the astoundingly stupid decisions being made at all levels of management.  Then one day something snapped in my head and all the stuff that made me angry started to make me laugh instead.  My stress level went down to zero and I started enjoying work.  To this day I tell people I come to work for entertainment.

Now if I could only do that at home... .heh, it would probably fix everything   Or, at least, I would be a lot happier.

[engineer]

Don't mind me, I just feel like complaining.  Feel free to tune out for the next several paragraphs.

So, I have been applying all the things I've learned here and from my counselor.  Things with my wife improved dramatically when I stopped feeding her fire.  But the fire did not go out completely.  The rages have gone from daily to about weekly.  One good thing about this is that I can actually look back and analyze what happened since my head isn't perpetually spinning anymore.  The down side is that I am starting to really resent the hell I have been through for the past year.  I didn't expect that... .I guess when I was in full-time crisis mode I was just dealing with the crisis, and now... .I'm fairly angry.  Oh well, that is a problem for another day.  At least one person in this relationship knows how to deal with anger.  I discovered when I was a kid that any activity that makes my ears ring will successfully dissipate anger for me.   OH!  See?  I am missing an opportunity here -- I should use this experience as an opportunity to really improve my skills at the drums.  heh.

Anyway... .oh yeah, I was complaining.  So things have been better but yesterday was *most defiinitely* not better.  She started first thing in the morning.  We had plans.  She didn't want to execute the plans... .but she couldn't *possibly* just say "I don't want to do that anymore" because then it would be her fault we didn't do what we said we were going to do.  So, she set out to cause me to upset her like she usually does, with passive-aggressive statements.  Everything out of her mouth was passive-aggressive.  I recognized it immediately.  I even chuckled to myself "I see what you're doing" and took it in stride, not reacting... .validating what was valid, etc.  She kept at it.  And at it.  And at it... .and usually it works and she can blame me for ruining our plans, but not this time.  Finally that wasn't working so she changed strategy.  She was not feeling well so she projected that *I* wasn't feeling well and suggested I rest for the day.  Now, I should have accepted this and agreed with her.  It was really a bone she was throwing me.  But no, I just figured she didn't feel well so we weren't going to do what we said and I should do something else, which I did.  That wasn't good enough because in her mind she was still the one messing up our plans (seriously how ridiculous -- she wasn't feeling well... .that is PLENTY of reason to change plans and I would never think a thing of it).  Anyway, her new strategy didn't work.  So, she changed tactics again, back to trying to upset me, this time with character assassination.  Man, she got really close... .I almost lost my cool.

My mistake was when she FINALLY admitted that she didn't feel well.  She said "I'm sorry I've been meandering today.  I don't feel well and I'm not sure I want to do what we said".  I thought "Finally! Now we are getting somewhere."  and I said "Oh I knew you weren't feeling well, that's why i wasn't pushing us to go out today".  Well... .that was all she needed.  "OH, SO YOU DECIDE ALL BY YOURSELF HOW SOMEONE ELSE IS FEELING AND MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEM?"... .Within minutes she was screaming at the top of her lungs, calling me every name in the book, telling me to pack my bags and get out, and all the rest.  I kept my cool as best I could (and really, i need to get better at keeping my cool when she is screaming at me for no reason).  I finally got her to calm down by leaving the room to "pack" (read: lay on the bed and play games on my phone for 20 minutes).  She stopped screaming but she was sullen and very touchy for the rest of the day.

This morning she woke up, yelled at me, and got out of bed.  I took a shower.  When I got out of the shower she was all flowers and butterflies like nothing happened... .and that's when she started her OTHER infuriating habit... .constant sexual innuendo.  So... .today will be sexual innuendo all day right up until we get into bed with her all hot and heavy, at which point either a) I touch her and she will start screaming at me, or b) I don't touch her and she will roll over and go to sleep and blame me tomorrow for not initiating anything.

ok, complaint over.  We now resume somewhat more useful content

[RolandOfEld]

Hi engineer, thanks for checking in and this most certainly is "useful content". It gives us a clearer picture of how life is for you recently. And it's good to hear from you. 

Not a stranger to plans erupting the hands of a pwBPD and confusing sexual signals, brother. That's a rough 24 hours.   

Can you share a bit about how you've stopped feeding her fire? Daily to weekly is big progress.

Yrs,
ROE

[engineer]

#1 -- Cleaning my own side of the street.  I had some questionable communication habits that never caused a problem in normal relationships but are real problems dealing with my wife.  For example, when I felt trapped with no ability to be heard I would respond sarcastically.  Or, I would mutter under my breath to myself.  Those are bads habits across the board.  This is really the most effective change.

#2 -- Not taking offense, even when offense is clearly meant.  This helps a lot, but I really have to pay attention.  She likes to criticise me for minor things, but she words her criticisms in such a way that an imaginary third party would not recognize she is being critical... .And she gets on a roll... .one criticism after another for hours.  If I actually respond to the criticism at any point we're off to the races.

#3 -- Avoiding traps.  Instead of saying "Hey love, would you mind pulling the shower curtain out of the shower when you're done so it can dry?" like a normal person, she would say "Every day I go upstairs and the shower curtain is still in the tub."  Not offensive, really, but then if I say "ok, i will make sure I pull it out from now on" she gets angry and says "why do you always think everything is about you?  Man I have a hard time avoiding this.

#4 -- Being quiet when she talks.  You can't have a normal back-and-forth conversation.  You have to sit quietly and look directly at her and most definitely NOT MOVE while she is talking.  If I get caught up in what she is saying I sometimes forget and try to respond.  Bad move.  Now... .all this makes sense if someone has something important to say and they spend five minutes talking about it.  Fine.  But she talks continuously.  I have clocked her up to 16 hours at a stretch -- no kidding.  Can't move.  Can't respond.  Can't even get up to pee.  She just goes and goes and goes.  If you try to end the conversation she says ":)o you have another two minutes?" and keeps going.  And then at some point she looks at the clock and gets angry at me because I didn't "take initiative" that day and instead just sat in the kitchen with her.  Sigh.  But as long as I sit quietly and listen she is happy for the most part, and doing anything else sparks a rage.

#5 -- Giving her space.  It took me a long time to figure this out.  She has very specific (and changing, of course, but I see the pattern a little more clearly now) requirements for space.  It's not about proximity... .it's actually really hard to describe.  It has a lot to do with her position relative to things in the room.  Like if she is on one side of the room with her back to the wall and there is a window to her right then I can approach her from the left.  If there is no window on her right then I cannot approach her from the left.  I cannot move if I am in her peripheral vision... .  I cannot switch what side of her I am walking on... .  I cannot walk with her but not be in her visual field... .  it goes on and on.

#6 -- Changing my speech habits.  I tend to speak euphemistically, playfully, creatively.  I make up words.  I use the language in creative ways.  I automatically adjust this based on the language capability of the person I'm talking to.  Obviously I don't speak creatively when I'm talking to everyone, but when I am speaking to an intelligent person I have fun with it.  I have never in my life had trouble communicating with anyone.  Ever.  Until I met her.  Somehow my automatic adjustment mis-estimates her.  She is *BAFFLED* by my speech... .and I have really had to start paying attention to what I say.  She has an IQ of 160 but I have to speak to her as if she has an IQ of half that.  And the strangest part is that her speech is beautiful -- she is a writer for crying out loud.  I think that's why my adjustment is off.  Anyone else who spoke like her would easily handle all the speech creativity I can muster.  But nope, it makes her very upset.

I could go on listing things I am changing for a long time.  I'm working on a lot of stuff.  I think to some extent the reason we are down to rages once a week and not less often than that is because I'm still practicing a lot of these things.  It was a lot of changes at once.

[RolandOfEld]

Thanks for sharing, engineer. That's a lot of initiative and I admire the work you've done.

What I want to ask you is, though the rages have decreased in frequency, has your stress decreased in turn?There is a difference between changing annoying habits out of love for someone and bending over to accommodate irrational needs. We of course want to avoid triggers and listen and communicate better, but the space thing sounds like a bit too much for me.

ROE

[engineer]

Yes *absolutely* my stress has decreased.  The space thing is bizarre, but it got a lot easier with practice.  I think there are three things going on

 -- She is claustrophobic
 -- She has strange eye issues that necessitated surgery when she was younger.  I have observed that her visual perception of almost everything is different from mine, particularly as it relates to motion.
 -- She is Australian, and so personal space is... .different... .for her.

I have come to the conclusion that her mother also had BPD traits.  She pinned most of her childhood drama on her dad, but it sure looks to me like her mother was the driver.  Unfortunately, through her process of accepting her childhood (which she did before I met her) she has classified her parents' behaviors as "completely normal", and so she believes her excessive emotional volatility and irrationality is normal and anything else is very uncomfortable for her.

[RolandOfEld]

Good to hear and sorry if thought the space thing was too much. I've gotten into the habit of writing off everything my wife reacts to as because of the BPD, but last night I tried a bit harder on how she feels about my snoring. I thought she was just being hyper-reactive to sound and that it wasn't a big thing but then she played me a recording she'd made and wow, I need to see a doctor because I sound like a demogorg. I also thought she was shaking me awake too fiercely when I snored but it turned out it was because gentle poking did nothing to wake me up.

Have you in any way expressed to her that her excessive emotional volatility is not normal? I think my wife is aware her behaviors are a little over the top but that they still fall into the normal range.

~ROE   

[engineer]

She has expressed it herself... .never consistently.  Sometimes it's "I've always had this rage, it's part of me and I am working on it."  Sometimes it's "I've always been such a happy person, always positive and in a great mood -- until I met you."  Sometimes it's "I think I have Dissociative Identity Disorder -- when things go wrong she takes over to protect me.", and then she goes on for an hour relating stories from her past when her "other" has taken over, and then finally she talks about when it started, though her story of when it started always changes.  But, most of the time, it's "you just aren't used to dealing with a normal woman".  So, yeah, most of the time she thinks her behavior is totally normal.

Every once in a while she talks about going to see a counselor.  Usually that happens when her panic attacks are frequent.  She expresses a desire to talk to someone about panic disorder.  I try to encourage that but the desire does not last long.  It quickly changes into "I never had panic attacks before I moved in with you" which is obviously not true from her stories of her past.  She often talks about panic attacks well back into her teens.  I find the fluidity of her reality endlessly amusing.

Oh, and seriously not offended by your reaction to the space thing... .it IS too much.  But... .the reason it's too much is because she does not clearly explain the issue.  I had to work it out by making mistake after mistake.  According to her it's her *most important thing* but she refused to actually tell me what to do to make her comfortable.  As usual I mapped the minefield by feeling around in the dark.

[Tattered Heart]

Going back to your earlier post, what was it like for you to watch her change tactics so many times?

I remember when I first began to initiate new techniques and communication tools with my H and watched him try various tactics to get me to engage. It was so eye opening and almost surreal. I felt like Dorothy looking behind the curtain. I could see everything playing out in front of me, but since I was detached from it, it was all so clear.

Hang in there. Validation isn't going to work 100% of the time. In fact, it's more for you to show her you care, and less about changing her behavior. You and your W have years of practice and reacting to each other it will take time. Stick with it, even when it doesn't seem to help. Not letting her off the hook for wanting to cancel plans was a big move in letting her take responsibility for her own emotions. It took lots of limits on your end, but by the end of  the day she got there. Eventually, it will take less and less time. And when she does acknowledge her own weaknesses, positive reinforcement goes a long way. I usually thank my husband for sharing with me or find another way to unobviously reward him.

[RolandOfEld]

engineer these inconsistency echoes my wife completely. I think they have moments of clarity but eventually the BPD steps in to relieve them of the responsibility to seeking help for a scary illness. My wife had a brief period of acknowledging she had BPD and even went to a counselor once. The shame is that I knew nothing about BPD at that time and had no tools, otherwise it would have been good timing to steer her into DBT. I've heard no mention of BPD since then and when I bring up her behaviors it usually is "I won't change. If you don't like it then leave." 

So what I've been doing recently (that is when I'm not calling the police) is gently pointing her in the direction of DBT and positioning it as "skills training, not psychotherapy". First I shared a light DBT YouTube video that makes no reference to BPD, which she liked, and told her I had watched it myself to help me control my temper with our son. Last week I introduced her to the DBT training available at our hospital as an alternative path to me constantly calling the police. Yesterday I found detailed information on the program in her native language that I will share with her. I believe if I continue setting boundaries and soft-selling the treatment, she might decide to do it.

~ROE   

[engineer]

Ok.  So... .time to take stock of where I am with my BPD-wife-wranglin' skills and see what I need to do next.

The good:
 - I have improved greatly at keeping rages from escalating out of control.  I'll never be perfect -- progress over perfection is a comfortable state for me.
 - I have improved a little at not JADEing.  I find this very difficult, but at this point I at least have my head wrapped around the concept and I am able to practice it some.
 - I have gotten better at validating.  She hasn't called "BS" on my validation for a few weeks.

The bad:
 - I am still having a very hard time not walking on eggshells.  Most of the times she is triggered to rage are correlated with times that I am "nervous".  I don't know the causal direction.  i may be nervous because i can sense her mental state, or she may be getting into a bad mental state because I'm nervous.  And this is the reason I point the whole thing out.  If I can stop walking on eggshells enough to stop being nervous, maybe that will help her to stay out of the bad mental state that causes her to deploy invisible bear traps.

Semi-related story:
On Sunday I got her out of the house.  As we went from the first store to the second store I thought to myself "Boy, this has been really nice... .there has been enough peace that I am finally starting to calm down".  Well that lasted 15 minutes.  In the second store she started hacking at me.  All the way through the store she criticised and complained.  On the way out of the store I lost my composure for an instant and she exploded in fiery rage.  She finally calmed down late last night and things are sort of ok for the moment.  Over the course of the last few days she projected like I've never seen her project before.  Within seconds of each of her bad behaviors she accused me of being the one who had done what she just did.  Over and over.  She said something interesting last night after I accidentally bumped a potted plant with my elbow and she responded with spitting rage... ."I never know what is going to happen, I think things are just fine but then 5 minutes later you just erupt in fury out of nowhere.  And I know you think I'm the one who is doing that."  And it's interesting because I have *never* said that to her.  It kind of proves the whole point about what is going on in her head.  I think this may be why it's so hard for me to get my head around the fact that she will never be able to see logic -- I see evidence that the truth is in her head somewhere and I feel like all I have to do is get her to see it.  I understand that it will never happen, but it's hard to convince my brain of that.