Depression in pwBPD -- What is your experience?

[Radcliff]

 I was having a discussion with someone recently about depression in pwBPD, and realized that I don't know as much about this topic as I would like.  My pwBPD has had depressive episodes, but not on the level I have heard about with other pwBPD.  I remember "lost weekends" several years ago where she would inexplicably stay on the bed all weekend, despite the fact that there was a bustling family with young kids and the usual combination of work and play to be done.  In recent years, things have been so stormy that I'm not sure I'd recognize what depression looked like if it was woven into the mix.

Severe depression, including suicidal ideation, and suicide, can happen in pwBPD.  We have a bpdfamily resource page on depression.  I found it informative, but it talks about depression in isolation, not paired with BPD.

What has your experience been with depression in your pwBPD?  Was it officially diagnosed?  How often and for how long was/is your pwBPD depressed?  What seems to help the situation?  What tips would you give to a member who is struggling with severe depression in their pwBPD?

RC

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[Gblack]

With my wife she would actually do the same and some of the opposite of stay in bed. She would actually become quite manic sometimes. She would compulsively shop, overspend, start again with her eating disorder (calorie count, etc.), not be able to just chill, had to go out to eat/be wined and dined. Other times she would binge watch tv shows and not get off the couch, say no one loved her, call out of work, etc. So in my experience it’s a little of both.

As far as time frames of how long it lasted. It was just part of the rollercoaster. Sometimes days... .sometimes weeks.

I’ll think of some tips and come back and modify soon btw.

[Notgoneyet]

 RC,
 My BPDw is actually rebounding somewhat from a 1 wk bought of depression as I type. I'm relieved that this episode didn't end with an ER visit as many do. Guessing 5x in the last 2 yrs. Used to almost always begin after an anger blow out but not so much now, since I have been refusing to participate in following battles that used to follow those. However the last few I'm pretty sure times started with shame from another addiction that I'm not going into today.
  They are frequently fueled by her alcoholism & often puts her on the couch for an few days combined w not eating and just drinking enough water to prevent dehydration. Dehydration starts when she can no longer hold down liquids of any kind due to upset stomach/vomiting. Even then sometimes she'll hold out for a full 2 -3 days more. The ER visits were never until her electrolytes & blood chemistry were so far out of wack that her heart was racing and she can no longer walk on her own. Doctors say this is a common body- response alcoholics.  
  After much reading of books & this board it seems to me it's almost her verity of (self harm) . She hates ER's & Hospital's  visits . 2 bags of electrolytes no matter what time of the night she demands to be released. Have picked her up more than a few times at midnight on my way home from working aftrn shift. Man does the staff hate releasing at that time of the night but they've tried refusing her before & it never goes well. sometimes its against Dr. orders and a waiver must be signed, Her strong will / anger prevail ALWAYS.    
  This last yr  I've done very little Rescuing her from these events. As many of you know the codependent line in a close relationship isn't an easy one to see sometimes. Still working on it after 20+ yrs of living with alcoholism in our marriage and even long than that with the BPD symptoms ( Never knowing what to think of them for early yrs) nor did the many M. counselors.  
 The following are just some of the feelings she's share w me when n this state -Hating herself,hopelessness,ending it all,a recent tx from her said," someday you will come home & find me dead"  
  Anyway there's a little of my 1st hand experience on the subject.
  On the bright side I took the depression survey myself on this site a wk ago & scored 11. somehow I'm staying healthy through all this.  
   Notgoneyet

[Tattered Heart]

My H experiences periods of depression. They are not extreme with SI or any type of behavior like that, thankfully. But I can tell he is depressed because he gets critical and moody but not angry.

I can always tell he is getting depressed by the type of music he listens to. He starts playing music with violent lyrics or anti-Christian.

His language and the topics he wants to talk about become hopeless and nihilistic. He hates the world and hopes it will end. He talks about social issues and says that violent means are the only way to end society's ills. He rants about Christians. Hot topic issues are the ONLY thing he wants to talk about and any attempt to change the subject is challenged with anger, accusations of being a part of the system, etc.

After a few days, or a week, he stops talking altogether. He has about 2 days of this behavior. I have no idea what's going on in his head. I don't ask because by the time he gets to this point, I'm relieved to have silence. I let him just have the quiet time.

I know he is coming out of it when he starts to initiate calm conversation again, starts showing affection, cleans the house without my request, and usually has a new idea on something he wants to do/try.

[I Am Redeemed]

My uBPDh was diagnosed with "depression with psychotic tendencies" in 2013. This was following what I consider a complete mental breakdown for him as well as a severe relapse into heavy usage of drugs. The depression itself seemed to lessen somewhat, but I believe it has been omnipresent for the last five years. It may go from mild to severe in intensity, but usually it manifests as outbursts of  anger, irritability, increased criticism of me or of others, heightened anxiety, sleep disturbances, increased use of substances (drugs and sometimes alcohol), increased gambling, restlessness, discontent and complaining about me, others, his job, our finances, etc., suicidal thoughts and gestures (at least one actual attempt, shortly before his diagnosis in 2013) and sometimes crying spells.

I think depression in a mild or moderate form may be easily missed when combined with BPD, because depression alone is not always so obvious in mild or moderate form. I myself was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder in 2010, and I don't even recognize the symptoms of depression sneaking up on me sometimes because they vary. It was obvious that I was depressed when I stayed in bed all day, didn't want to shower, chain-smoked cigarettes, binge-watched the same episodes of Roseanne that I had seen a million times before, and kept vodka under the bathroom sink. Depression wasn't so obvious when my day-to-day life wasn't significantly impacted, yet I was chronically fatigued, anxious, easily irritated, bored, found myself lost in negative thoughts, and didn't really want any social contact. I was able to explain away most of those symptoms with other plausible reasons (I work a lot, I have young children, so of course I am tired, I am worried over finances and the household, so of course I have anxiety and am irritated, I have always been a natural pessimist and introvert, so no surprise that my thoughts run toward the negative and I don't want to answer the phone, etc.)

In my uBPDh, it is hard to separate what might have just been traits of BPD, and what might have been symptoms of depression, because of the overlapping anger/raging, blaming/criticizing/complaining, and substance abuse which I feel was his form of self-harm (he was never a "cutter" or anything overt like that.) I really feel like the BPD made it impossible to deal with or accept the negative feelings of shame and guilt, which likely made him depressed. Low self-esteem also contributed a lot to his depression, which is also a part of BPD. For my uBPDh, when the severe depression became obvious, it was too late- he was already in self-destruct mode and he would not stop until outside forces intervened. This last time it was the police arresting him and the judge setting his bond so high he could not get out of jail. I think it may have saved his life, as far as the drug use went.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Radcliff]

Thanks everyone!  Themes I see so far are:

* The signs and symptoms vary
* Sometimes it's hard to recognize depression in ourselves and others, especially if it's not obvious, or there are a lot of other things going on
* In this very small set of replies, I'm not seeing many solutions that worked other than to wait out an episode.  Perhaps as more members weigh in, we'll come across some tips.

What experiences have other members had?

RC

[pearlsw]

My "partner" is depressed and that is part of why I can't be around much. We went to see yet another doctor about it today, but I am more hopeless than ever. We discussed the last seven + years we've been together and things we have each observed/experienced. The doctor basically said we live in two separate realities. I don't know what happens from here... .Next week we're meeting with a mediator to figure out a divorce (the terms). I want to do this to take the ability to threaten me off the table. I am not 100% committed to us being together as I was last year... .after all he's done since December I just can't anymore... .He will possibly stop taking the anti-depressants he started taking just last week... .the two doctors have basically told him "it's up to you if you want to kill yourself or not, sir." This boils my blood a bit, but... .I just throw my hands up on the whole thing... .I just want to find a way back to myself in life... .to focusing on me and my own happiness... .that would be so nice. Miss talking to ya'll! I'm just never alone! Be back when I can!

warmly, pearl.

[Radcliff]

the two doctors have basically told him "it's up to you if you want to kill yourself or not, sir." This boils my blood a bit, but... .

I am not very experienced at issues around suicidal intent and threats, but my nonexpert thought on this is that they are essentially recognizing reality and expressing boundaries.  Short of committing him, there is nothing they can do.  It is his choice.  By talking matter-of-factly like this, they may also be trying to remove the drama and the threat potential. 

RC

[pearlsw]

I am not very experienced at issues around suicidal intent and threats, but my nonexpert thought on this is that they are essentially recognizing reality and expressing boundaries.  Short of committing him, there is nothing they can do.  It is his choice.  By talking matter-of-factly like this, they may also be trying to remove the drama and the threat potential. 

RC

Yes, it is interesting. I find my responses vs. the one's of the doctors quite curious. I can't explain why, but lately I have felt so much anger and just... .this feeling of like... .I'm trying to get people to see there is a crisis and no one is listening or helping... .even my "h" is more calm than me lately but in all fairness he is pretty drugged up. I notice the moments I have broken and cried are the moments when I just think... .and say out loud... ."I don't want you to die!"

He surprised me today. I am getting the silent treatment after this "step back" (as opposed to a step forward) dr's visit yesterday and he... .well, he said he would continue to take the medicine for another week. That is all he said to me the entire day and then he left... .He waited all day to tell me this, completely dispassionately... .but I again broke into tears.

I was upset with him yesterday (hence the silence treatment, though he also does not speak much at all lately, mostly just grunts when I ask questions... .) but I apologized for being upset and told him... .that I was not angry with him actually, but with the illness... .sigh.

I can still feel the tears hiding behind my eyes like a dam about to burst again... .It just all feels "unfair" to me all the things we've had to go through all these years... .all the horrible things... .all the pain... .and for what? What was all this suffering for?

Anyway, big picture, depression is hard... .this is not his first serious bout with it since I've known him... .I just know I need to get myself back into a more calm and settled state so I can handle the next round of challenges life is going to throw at me... .next week and in the coming months... .

thanks for bringing up this topic!

warmly, pearl.

[grd123]

Radcliff I dealt with depression with my ex wife in conjunction with the BPD. My ex wifes mother had and was diagnosed with depression which seemed quite severe at times. My two daughters have both been diagnosed with depression one also with ADHD the other diagnosed with anxiety with the depression.
  My ex wife many times complained about depression but to the best of my knowledge was never diagnosed as she stated many times that I was the cause of her depression. She also would spend much time in bed and let things go eating chips and cookies in bed until the white sheets turned brownish yellow. I tried to do more around the house thinking the relationship would improve. I did more vacuuming, cooking , cleaning, driving my children and running a business through this. As I did more household chores this increased her rage at me at times yelling at me that I should have consulted her before vacuuming or doing chores yet she was in bed and many I would do the chores  early in the morning before anyone was awake.
   My wife also exhibited suicide ideation and one time I walked into the kitchen she was holding a knife to herself saying she wished to end her life as it was not worth living. I made numerous calls to The Canadian Mental Health Hot Line asking for guidance and advice. They told me to make sure I was documenting everything and keep records which I had already being doing for a number of years.  I took pictures of the times my clothes were thrown outside for no reason as well as damage to my personal belongings. I tried to record some of the conversations also as I felt I was losing my sanity going through never ending revolving arguments that she would keep going for hours. If I did not endure these endless arguments and would walk away to take a break she would accuse me of being emotionally abusive.   Like many other people at this point in life I had no understanding of what was going on in my life as I had very little if any understanding of mental illness and had never heard of BPD. Canadian Mental Health told me you cannot force someone who is an adult to go for help if they do not want help therefore I was stuck living this madness.
To the best of my knowledge my ex wife has still not received any help over 3 years after the marriage.

[Radcliff]

Thank you, Gblack, Notgoneyet, Tattered Heart, I Am Redeemed, pearlsw, and grd123, for your replies!

grd123,  many of the other elements of your story resonated with me.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.

pearlsw, I'm sorry for the tough situation you are in!  I sincerely hope you and your guy experience some improvement.

RC

[Lakebreeze]

Hi all,
Interesting, since so many of the hallmarks of BPD are very depressing... .even to just read so it would make sense that a person with BPD could have depression as well.
Before I knew about BPD I actually talked to my husband about getting evaluated for depression. He refused of course, how dare I think something was wrong.
Anyway the symptoms when they come up are obvious. He drinks too much alcohol. Plays music from his teens and twenties really loud. I don't think the depression exists only in episodes though. He will start crying if he talks about our kids growing up. Or his parents dying. It's like it's right there under the surface all the time.

[Turkish]

My ex was clinically Dx'd with depression (like my mother) before she met me.  I will confess that I often didn't deal with it well. I bought into her "I'm a strong woman" shtick. She is in a lot of ways,  but she needed support and empathy at times in which I failed.  

S8 was S1. She wanted to go shopping and walk around in the outlets 15 miles away.  I wasn't listening.  I drove home,  she went to bed in the middle of a Sunday morning. I took S1 to Walmart to go shopping.  Because at needed to,  you know? And I viewed her as worthless as a mother that morning.  Things needed to get done.  I was taking care of our baby.  It pissed me off. Especially how much I was implied how I wasn't of much value as a father,  which was cultural from her side. That pissed me off so much... .

We returned to the house 40 mins later.  Her cell phone was in pieces in the hallway (she'd thrown it), and a nasty note full of cuss words was left on the table about how I missed her cues and didn't care about her.  To this day,  I'll own that I screwed that one up.  

Thinking back,  my thoughts were,  "you just pull through it and take on your responsibilities." Help take care of your freaking baby.  That was a complete disconnect on my side.  If I'd listened to her and gone to walk around the outlets, would it have been a burden? Not really.  

Christmas day 2011, she was pregnant with D5. She stormed out of her mother's house,  arguing with her mother in Spanish.  She left S1 and I. I got a text soon after.  "BRING OUR BABY HOME!" I returned to find an almost suicide note on our computer and she in a fetal position in our master bathroom.  Closest I ever came to calling the cops,  but she being pregnant with our daughter,  I knew she'd leave me and with S1, a whole lot of drama.  

We got through it.  I encouraged her to come out to her family as having depression.  It helped all of them.  

I saved the note,  and read it to the couples counselor she abandoned me to in 2013. He said,  "she needs to be hospitalized." I can't know how my life would be now if I had called.  

[Confused1017]

Hello Radcliff,

I’m sorry to hear about your wife’s depression. I know It’s very difficult.

My experience with my friend/bf’s depression, along with his undiagnosed BPD, is that he sometimes wants to be alone and does Not want to be around people, that includes Me sometimes.   He has crying spells sometimes if he is feeling down or depressed about whatever is upsetting him- family stuff, etc.  He feels like a failure at times because it’s been hard for him to hold down a job for long, because of his mental health issues.

Sometimes it lasts for a couple of days, sometimes for weeks or even longer.  I have asked him many time to stick with a Good therapist he connects with, and to be COnSISTENT with therapy, because he Has Not Been consistent so far!

I try to remind him of the Positive things in his life- his physical health, his youth, he has a beautiful 6 yr old daughter, his parents, and his good qualities- he can be Kind, gentle, sweet and he’s passionate when he wants to be.  I’ve had my own personal experience w depression- before becoming a Mom ANd with post partum depression.  It was So awful- I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.  It is so so Hard to deal with- it’s something that- unless You’ve experienced it, it’s almost impossible to understand Just How Bad it is!   I personally found Therapy Extremely helpful- I went to therapy for Years to combat my depression- but w a therapist who I connected with and who I Felt Truly Cared about my well-being.

Another thing that seems to help him is exercise- I will offer to workout with him- either at the gym, or just jogging outdoors in a park or something.  Exercise really seems to lift his mood! 

Maybe you two can try therapy Together to help her manage her depression in a healthy way?  And maybe some exercise as well?    I hope this helped a bit.  

Wishing you and your spouse all the best, Confused1017

[wendydarling]

Hi there RC

I'm glad you raised this too and sorry to hear of your wife's depression. My DD too but only found out when she hit crisis 2015, dx BPD, depression, anxiety ... . the depression was severe. DD takes meds, it took time for them to find the right one and since she's never mentioned she's feeling depressed, she talks very openly about her BPD, health in general, completed 14 months DBT last September. The important point I learnt was addressing the depression first appeared to open the pathway for her to look at, understand her BPD and not confuse with depression.

I hope that's helpful.

WDx

[CryWolf]

My partner told me she had depression when we first met a few years back. She would have episodes where she never wanted to brush her teeth, shower, do homework or eat. what worked best in my case was, I would surprise her with her favorite foods or snacks an drop them off randomly at her house and make her smile. or tell her corny jokes that she would laugh at. Sometimes it didn't work. but most often than not it did. School was a major cause of her depression and there wasn't much i could do to help her. i tried giving her motivational speeches but it didn't really work. Them knowing you are there for them means a lot. I know hiking, or going on long late night drives together helped her a lot.