why learning about my last BPD breakup is hurting me instead of helping me?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have continued to read the boards from time to time and I'm in a relationship group on FB to aid in my recovery from a cluster b, or narcissistic or even partly aspie partner. 

The interesting thing about the group is that on one hand I get alot of good feedback from women based on my viewpoints.  I think and I believe because of the feedback that I should be a guy who matches up well with some or many of these women who are also in the same boat as me. 

So what i'm observing/learning is that there are these mirror images of me in female form and they keep attracting BPD/narcissistic men and I keep attracting ones like that too.   But there are also some of them that are really mascerading as the victim but are probably BPD themselves ?

I'm getting better at looking at the truth behind the front of what some of them tell me.

I've had several encounters now where women have appeared to be my mirror image but then some things came up that caused me to see it could just be another mask. 

The latest was one who i met in my writing group and she said she was wanting to be a coach to help people recover from narcissistic abuse.  We started talking/chatting through skype and had some really heartfelt conversations.  She seemed empathic and said that she was.  She mirrored all the pain i had been through in my last relationship, comparing her last two relationships.  I leaned on her for emotional support and felt safe doing so until the last few weeks.   I realized a big shift happened when i started talking about my previous ex gf that i still see as friends.  I even told her that i was over at her apartment but that we remained platonic as i have learned to have better boundaries and not be seduced or recycled.   In one of those conversations, I mentioned that my ex got mad at me.  She was very interested in this "mad" ness and then in our next conversation she spoke of how angry she was about her dad or some other issue.  Apparently i didn't validate her enough (yes she told me) and said that, "i know now moving forward in my life that i need to be with someone or people who will allow me to be angry and not be upset or taken back by that."   At first i thought, "oh boy, here we go again."  I tried to look at it logically and tell myself that this was a good learning lesson and perhaps i don't validate someone's anger like they want me to (i was abused by an very Jekyl/hyde dad that would turn angry on me).   Anyway, within the next few weeks our fun and playful friendship (we lived continents away) turned into her trying to be my coach and take the "one up" position.  She would not allow us to be in that equal footing anymore.  The relationship finally deteriorated when she used one of my vulnerable moments against me to make it seem like i was the victim and she was the therapist there to help.  I refused to take this role and so not i have cut ties with her as the sudden switch in personality scared me.   I believe that she started talking to this man from our writing group who she calls her male colleague (she didn't have a male colleague when we first started talking a few months ago). I know who he is and i know his stance and she was reflecting that.

So I'm still able to get fooled up front even by a friend relationship but what was nice about just being friends is disengaging is alot easier.  I think it might take 2-3 months to start seeing some changes in someone.  It also took a trigger of her pain to flip her into borderline trait mode. 

I also had some conversations with someone who told me that she was "ghosted" and how painful it was. We talked for almost half a day about the issues.   While that seemed pretty cool as i love to connect with someone i realize it is also a sign of perhaps poor boundaries on both of our parts?  i don't know what is acceptable for a neurotypical as far as how long conversations should go but i wasn't looking at her as potential date or love interest but just as a part of my healing journey.  Maybe because i can't afford therapy it's easier to use these organic relationships to talk things out.  Anyway, at the end we talked about how to vet these relationships out.  She said she had slept this man within 3 months and then he ghosted her.  I said, "i think for me going forward i'm not going to want to engage in sex until the 6 month mark."  She had a reaction to that.  First she said, "my biology couldn't handle that."  Second she said, "what if i waited 6 months and the sex was terrible.  now i've just wasted 6 months."
I immediately felt like i would be judged sexually if i was in a relationship with her.  She's had lots of partners and what if i didn't "stack up".   

Learning lesson:  Maybe find women who answer that question differently?  Is it okay to talk about that in the dating process?

what if i'm just being attracted to women who are hyper-sexual?  I don't know what's normal. I like sex myself but i don't want to be used for it like i was in my last relationship.  That really hurt and has gotten me to look at maybe i unknowingly place too much value on sex?  i don't know? has anyone had a non BPD relationship where they enjoyed their partner sexually and felt like it was more loving then over the top or even porn like?

Next and this is the big one:
I'm off kilter now in my life.  I accepted the past women i have been with for all their complaints etc because i was attracted to them and thought, "as long as they like me that is what is important." 
Actually, i did say to my last partner that i didn't mind her complaining about her ex from time to time but if it dominated the conversation every time we were together then it was unhealthy.  She seemed to move me into a place with less conversations and more into either sex or no sex after that.

So i'm still hurting and telling people about my pain if i get triggered and i know it's unhealthy but i can't seem to stop telling my story.  Maybe i have the "fleas" as they say and i'm acting borderline or like my past partner now?  talking about my pain was like her complaining about people in her life.  I don't want to but actually i realized i don't have much positive to talk about.  My kids are alienated against me, my job is very challenging for me and i'm financially burdened, i'm alone in all this pain and miss having a partner but i realize that i don't want to be a negative partner for someone.  I think my empathy for not wanting to bring someone down is what made me vulnerable in the last relationship.  I think she sensed that i was not in the best place but accepted me for it and i thought that meant she cared.  It's so hard to live with the fact that she used that and me as a way to get over her ex and lusting after me (which on the surface seems cool to be wanted that way but i would trade it for someone who really sees me for who i am.)  Ironic thing is the friend from overseas would reflect back about what a great guy i was  and that i should try to find someone who sees me for who i am and then she turned on me too.   

So while i'm learning i still feel very unable to feel like I would be an asset to anyone in a relationship.
I have financial problems, some health issues and I don't know what postive things i have to offer to anyone anymore.  Perhaps this last one really drained my confidence as a potential partner.  I thought my traits and my love was strong enough or good enough.  I'm sort of down on that right now.  I feel like i'm learning or have learned but i still can't find the true partners who would be willing to look at my qualities vs my status etc.

I know i have to work on myself , get my life back in order etc. etc.  Why does it have to be so much harder for the person who cares about people?  why are the ones who are disordered so easily able to move through life using people and getting what they want and leaving people emotionally bankrupt but they go on to have all the fun etc (that's what it seems like even though i know it's not true.)  This last one really hit me on every core level including lowering my hope level.  I was always a very hopeful person and now that seems to be gone.  I've become negative or a doubter and reliant on external circumstances to get feedback about that.  Maybe i've lost my faith in my ability to find a healthy partner or to now recover from this and be healthy?

I'm sorry to be a downer today.  I think all this learning and intellectualizing is just making me feel more hopeless like its me that is flawed. 

So that's my pity party for today. 

[truthbeknown]

I have continued to read the boards from time to time and I'm in a relationship group on FB to aid in my recovery from a cluster b, or narcissistic or even partly aspie partner. 

The interesting thing about the group is that on one hand I get alot of good feedback from women based on my viewpoints.  I think and I believe because of the feedback that I should be a guy who matches up well with some or many of these women who are also in the same boat as me. 

So what i'm observing/learning is that there are these mirror images of me in female form and they keep attracting BPD/narcissistic men and I keep attracting ones like that too.   But there are also some of them that are really mascerading as the victim but are probably BPD themselves ?

I'm getting better at looking at the truth behind the front of what some of them tell me.

I've had several encounters now where women have appeared to be my mirror image but then some things came up that caused me to see it could just be another mask. 

The latest was one who i met in my writing group and she said she was wanting to be a coach to help people recover from narcissistic abuse.  We started talking/chatting through skype and had some really heartfelt conversations.  She seemed empathic and said that she was.  She mirrored all the pain i had been through in my last relationship, comparing her last two relationships.  I leaned on her for emotional support and felt safe doing so until the last few weeks.   I realized a big shift happened when i started talking about my previous ex gf that i still see as friends.  I even told her that i was over at her apartment but that we remained platonic as i have learned to have better boundaries and not be seduced or recycled.   In one of those conversations, I mentioned that my ex got mad at me.  She was very interested in this "mad" ness and then in our next conversation she spoke of how angry she was about her dad or some other issue.  Apparently i didn't validate her enough (yes she told me) and said that, "i know now moving forward in my life that i need to be with someone or people who will allow me to be angry and not be upset or taken back by that."   At first i thought, "oh boy, here we go again."  I tried to look at it logically and tell myself that this was a good learning lesson and perhaps i don't validate someone's anger like they want me to (i was abused by an very Jekyl/hyde dad that would turn angry on me).   Anyway, within the next few weeks our fun and playful friendship (we lived continents away) turned into her trying to be my coach and take the "one up" position.  She would not allow us to be in that equal footing anymore.  The relationship finally deteriorated when she used one of my vulnerable moments against me to make it seem like i was the victim and she was the therapist there to help.  I refused to take this role and so not i have cut ties with her as the sudden switch in personality scared me.   I believe that she started talking to this man from our writing group who she calls her male colleague (she didn't have a male colleague when we first started talking a few months ago). I know who he is and i know his stance and she was reflecting that.

So I'm still able to get fooled up front even by a friend relationship but what was nice about just being friends is disengaging is alot easier.  I think it might take 2-3 months to start seeing some changes in someone.  It also took a trigger of her pain to flip her into borderline trait mode. 

I also had some conversations with someone who told me that she was "ghosted" and how painful it was. We talked for almost half a day about the issues.   While that seemed pretty cool as i love to connect with someone i realize it is also a sign of perhaps poor boundaries on both of our parts?  i don't know what is acceptable for a neurotypical as far as how long conversations should go but i wasn't looking at her as potential date or love interest but just as a part of my healing journey.  Maybe because i can't afford therapy it's easier to use these organic relationships to talk things out.  Anyway, at the end we talked about how to vet these relationships out.  She said she had slept this man within 3 months and then he ghosted her.  I said, "i think for me going forward i'm not going to want to engage in sex until the 6 month mark."  She had a reaction to that.  First she said, "my biology couldn't handle that."  Second she said, "what if i waited 6 months and the sex was terrible.  now i've just wasted 6 months."
I immediately felt like i would be judged sexually if i was in a relationship with her.  She's had lots of partners and what if i didn't "stack up".   

Learning lesson:  Maybe find women who answer that question differently?  Is it okay to talk about that in the dating process?

what if i'm just being attracted to women who are hyper-sexual?  I don't know what's normal. I like sex myself but i don't want to be used for it like i was in my last relationship.  That really hurt and has gotten me to look at maybe i unknowingly place too much value on sex?  i don't know? has anyone had a non BPD relationship where they enjoyed their partner sexually and felt like it was more loving then over the top or even porn like?

Next and this is the big one:
I'm off kilter now in my life.  I accepted the past women i have been with for all their complaints etc because i was attracted to them and thought, "as long as they like me that is what is important." 
Actually, i did say to my last partner that i didn't mind her complaining about her ex from time to time but if it dominated the conversation every time we were together then it was unhealthy.  She seemed to move me into a place with less conversations and more into either sex or no sex after that.

So i'm still hurting and telling people about my pain if i get triggered and i know it's unhealthy but i can't seem to stop telling my story.  Maybe i have the "fleas" as they say and i'm acting borderline or like my past partner now?  talking about my pain was like her complaining about people in her life.  I don't want to but actually i realized i don't have much positive to talk about.  My kids are alienated against me, my job is very challenging for me and i'm financially burdened, i'm alone in all this pain and miss having a partner but i realize that i don't want to be a negative partner for someone.  I think my empathy for not wanting to bring someone down is what made me vulnerable in the last relationship.  I think she sensed that i was not in the best place but accepted me for it and i thought that meant she cared.  It's so hard to live with the fact that she used that and me as a way to get over her ex and lusting after me (which on the surface seems cool to be wanted that way but i would trade it for someone who really sees me for who i am.)  Ironic thing is the friend from overseas would reflect back about what a great guy i was  and that i should try to find someone who sees me for who i am and then she turned on me too.   

So while i'm learning i still feel very unable to feel like I would be an asset to anyone in a relationship.
I have financial problems, some health issues and I don't know what postive things i have to offer to anyone anymore.  Perhaps this last one really drained my confidence as a potential partner.  I thought my traits and my love was strong enough or good enough.  I'm sort of down on that right now.  I feel like i'm learning or have learned but i still can't find the true partners who would be willing to look at my qualities vs my status etc.

I know i have to work on myself , get my life back in order etc. etc.  Why does it have to be so much harder for the person who cares about people?  why are the ones who are disordered so easily able to move through life using people and getting what they want and leaving people emotionally bankrupt but they go on to have all the fun etc (that's what it seems like even though i know it's not true.)  This last one really hit me on every core level including lowering my hope level.  I was always a very hopeful person and now that seems to be gone.  I've become negative or a doubter and reliant on external circumstances to get feedback about that.  Maybe i've lost my faith in my ability to find a healthy partner or to now recover from this and be healthy?

I'm sorry to be a downer today.  I think all this learning and intellectualizing is just making me feel more hopeless like its me that is flawed. 

So that's my pity party for today. 

[heartandwhole]

Hi truthbeknown,

Thanks for sharing where you are right now. You have been learning a lot about other people and yourself. I kind of envy you for the opportunities to practice! If you can try to see this a very good sign that you are growing. The more you share with others and pay attention to what is coming back to you, the more honed your skills to differentiate between what is nurturing you (needs and wants) and what isn't.

I'm sorry to be a downer today.  I think all this learning and intellectualizing is just making me feel more hopeless like its me that is flawed.  

No need to apologize for feeling down.    I can relate to your lack of hope. I have to say that I often feel pretty resigned about my fate on the romantic relationship front. On other days, however, I realize that my little mind can't see the big picture of my life and where it's going—anything can happen.

Intellectualizing can be a big trap, and I agree that it can spiral into confusion and frustration very easily. You mentioned feeling flawed. I certainly have those feelings, too.

If you don't mind sharing, could you elaborate a bit on what you are feeling?

heartandwhole

[truthbeknown]

Yes- right now really hurt and angry because after writing this post i went to my fb app and saw that the person i reached out to on Sat who is my ex's friend did a really nasty thing.  I had seen a post that triggered me to reach out to her because she was part of a double date my ex and i were on last year (last weekend together).   She posted that her and her boyfriend were starting the big weekend celebration.  So i chatted with her and said, "wish we could double date with you guys again but as you probably know (ex's name) and I aren't together anymore."  She replied that she knew and made a little chit chat and then asked if i was in town for work or for living?  Don't even know why this was important?   Today, i opened up fb after this post and found she posted pics about her boyfriends party and included a pic of my ex and her new boyfriend.  How (blanking) cruel people are these days.  Is there no body left with any compassion skills anymore?  I immediately deleted her and then did what i thought was the impossible.  I deleted my ex from fb.  That's it.  She obviously must've painted me black with her friend to have her friend act as her sadistic extension! 

So NO MORE.  no more worrying about whether she thinks about me or not.  She doesn't have access to me anymore!  I wanted to be friends after some time had gone by but i can't handle that kind of un-compassionate toxicity in my life.  She now gets what she wants . She can paint me black all she wants! I don't care .  Yes i'm angry but i'm crying too because my fantasy of holding onto her as a friend just ended.  I have to protect my heart and that kind of stuff was just too unkind.  I deserve better - i was so good to her.   Loved her more then i think anyone will ever love her but I guess love wasn't what she was looking for? 

[heartandwhole]

Yes i'm angry but i'm crying too because my fantasy of holding onto her as a friend just ended. 

I'm sorry, truth. This stuff hurts so much. I get what you mean about the fantasy ending, and how painful that can be. It happened to me, too.

You know what, though? The minute hope died for me, I was set free. It was the beginning of my recovery.

What made you look at FB after posting? Were you feeling something in particular?

heartandwhole

[Dargumin]

Yes- right now really hurt and angry because after writing this post i went to my fb app and saw that the person i reached out to on Sat who is my ex's friend did a really nasty thing.  I had seen a post that triggered me to reach out to her because she was part of a double date my ex and i were on last year (last weekend together).   She posted that her and her boyfriend were starting the big weekend celebration.  So i chatted with her and said, "wish we could double date with you guys again but as you probably know (ex's name) and I aren't together anymore."  She replied that she knew and made a little chit chat and then asked if i was in town for work or for living?  Don't even know why this was important?   Today, i opened up fb after this post and found she posted pics about her boyfriends party and included a pic of my ex and her new boyfriend.  How (blanking) cruel people are these days.  Is there no body left with any compassion skills anymore?  I immediately deleted her and then did what i thought was the impossible.  I deleted my ex from fb.  That's it.  She obviously must've painted me black with her friend to have her friend act as her sadistic extension! 

So NO MORE.  no more worrying about whether she thinks about me or not.  She doesn't have access to me anymore!  I wanted to be friends after some time had gone by but i can't handle that kind of un-compassionate toxicity in my life.  She now gets what she wants . She can paint me black all she wants! I don't care .  Yes i'm angry but i'm crying too because my fantasy of holding onto her as a friend just ended.  I have to protect my heart and that kind of stuff was just too unkind.  I deserve better - i was so good to her.   Loved her more then i think anyone will ever love her but I guess love wasn't what she was looking for? 

Sorry but she's perfectly entitled to post pics of her and her friends having fun, even if that includes pics of your ex and her new bf. The world doesn't completely revolve around you.  I know it hurts a lot to see pics of ex's with new SOs and it's probably healthy for you to delete them both off facebook, but you really aren't at the forefront of everyone's mind all the time and have no right to expect to be.   Stay strong, you'll get through this.

[truthbeknown]

Dargumin,

Sorry but she's perfectly entitled to post pics of her and her friends having fun, even if that includes pics of your ex and her new bf. The world doesn't completely revolve around you. Didn't say it did and I realize that "victim bashing" is the new in thing but i didn't expect it on this forum.  I come here to express my pain because usually most people have been through something similar.  I know it hurts a lot to see pics of ex's with new SOs and it's probably healthy for you to delete them both off facebook, but you really aren't at the forefront of everyone's mind all the time and have no right to expect to be.  You missed the point here Dargumin- If i hadn't just had a conversation with this women then seeing the pics and reacted this way i could understand your comments but the fact that I was being vulnerable with someone about us not being together anymore and then she posts pics the next day,  that just shows a lack of empathy for another person.  Stay strong, you'll get through this.

[truthbeknown]

I'm sorry, truth. This stuff hurts so much. I get what you mean about the fantasy ending, and how painful that can be. It happened to me, too.

You know what, though? The minute hope died for me, I was set free. It was the beginning of my recovery.

What made you look at FB after posting? Were you feeling something in particular?

heartandwhole

Thank you Heart and Whole.  I know what you mean.  I even thought to myself yesterday that "hope is over" and i want to be hopeful that i can someday experience a relationship that offers true caring etc with a healthy woman but i'm not sure i have hope for that yet.  In the meanwhile, i feel free from her having a "hook in me" so to speak.  She can no longer know what is going on in my life which means i've taken a piece of her "double life" away by taking my part back.  It stinks that i had to do it but i think getting out of the circle of grown women who are behaving like high schoolers had to end.   The toxicity was just too much.   

In some way i'm glad i saw in online rather then run into him and the ex in person.  She used me to make her ex husband Jealous and i believe any man she is with now is just a pawn in the game to get back at her ex for divorcing her.   I realized after I unfriended her that it might kick up her abandonment issues but ironically she abandoned us/me.   Interesting how they project that.

onward and upward... .

[wellwellwell]

truthbeknown, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. I haven't been in exactly the same situation, as I was never really on fb and deleted my account when things got really difficult, anyway. I also haven't had the opportunity to date as much for a number of reasons.

However, I do want to share how difficult I've found it to not explain where I'm at, and I'm sure that's put people off talking to me or following up. That's just the way it is. I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm not overbearing, and it's not really that it's their loss, it's just that this is my process, and it's who I am now. I think I'm approaching the end of this stage. There's a separate thread where Mutt brings up a really useful victim-survivor-thriver framework. The survivor shares the story, but the thriver doesn't feel that they have to. My take is that the only way to get there is to grow into it.

Try to see the progress you've made. It is really painful when people do things that feel sadistic, even if they're not deliberate. But try as much as you can to make this about you, not others. Some people call this making you the center of gravity in your own world. Over time, that's what I've found is the route to comfort with the intensely painful feelings I experienced. Take care.

[once removed]

I keep attracting ones like that too. 

someone once put it to me this way: are they attracted to me, or am i attracted to them?

ill ask you the same. think about it carefully, its not necessarily intuitive.

[Dargumin]

Dargumin,

Sorry if I came across harsh. What I was trying to say is: this person probably wasn't intentionally trying to rub it in your face by posting this picture.  You've presumed she was doing it to be cruel, but in reality you may have not even crossed her mind when she posted the pictures, to them they are just pictures from a party they attended.   

[truthbeknown]

Dargumin,

thank you for your apology.  I don't know how much you've been on the forum or researched BPD/narcissism?  The reason i was feeling that way is based on experience.  She's had friends that she's used to hurt me in the past.  They call them the "flying monkeys" for a reason.  They report back to the narcissist and many times do their dirty work.  This is not me thinking this alone.  I have done some heavy reading on this subject.   So in a normal, healthy dynamic I think I could agree with your perspective but i'm leaning toward my viewpoint because my ex has a clan of friends that does this type of stuff.   Just to play devils advocate though- if she wasn't part of the clan and she posted pics then i still wouldn't want to be friends with my ex's friends on fb.  It's a decision i made for my health. 

link: https://pro.psychcentral.com/recovery-expert/2016/07/the-narcissists-flying-monkeys/

Now my part was that i was too trusting of who i was talking to.  That was my fault.   I think subconsciously i needed to know where i stood with them.  I was feeling sentimental and projected out my own sense of consideration and kindness onto her.  I take responsibility for that.   If the world did revolve around me we probably wouldn't be having this chat in here and i would i might be the one doing what my ex is doing to me.  Sometimes I think it's easier to be the sick person?  they do so much damage.   

[Dargumin]

 Sometimes I think it's easier to be the sick person?  they do so much damage.  

I am familiar with the flying monkey analogy.  It possibly was that, but maybe wasn't.  I agree that it's probably healthiest for you to delete her friends anyway.  Out of interest, are you jealous of the new BF? He probably has some real misery coming to him in the near future, so don't be.  

Without having had HF BPD I don't know how bad it is exactly. I look at my High Functioning ex, her swanky career and the speed and ease she cut me out of her life and I do feel jealous at times.  I was in pieces and she was dating.  However whilst she may not feel the pain we do at the end of a relationship, she has a more nagging one throughout. Furthermore she doesn't know what true love is and never will, ironically I found out what true love is by falling for her. It's the greatest gift she gave me, and I look forward to feeling this way about somebody more worthy of it in the future.  Your ex will never have that, but in time there's every chance that you will again. Recapturing that feeling is the thing I'm looking forward to most in life.  

  

[heartandwhole]

truthbeknown,

Beware of junk psychology. It can set you back. I've seen it, and I wouldn't want that for you.

Your original question is "why is learning about the breakup hurting me instead of helping me?" I respectfully suggest that a factor could be the type of information that you are reading. I understand it, believe me. It can feel helpful in the beginning.  

But the real work is turning away from what others are doing and facing ourselves.

Your ex may have a group of friends enabling her behaviors. Or not. Regardless, you have your own feelings to deal with. It hurts to believe what you are believing.

Have you seen this article about the 10 beliefs that can keep us stuck? When I first arrived, it helped me so much, because finally I realized that it was what I was believing that was causing me pain.

Keep processing your feelings. It's the way through this. We're here for you.

heartandwhole