Monday Morning Quarterbacking: What would you have done differently?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Friends,

I would be interested to hear what, if anything, you would have done differently now that you've had a chance to detach and reflect on your BPD r/s?

I have my own ideas, but would rather hear from you first.

Anyone feel like taking a stab at answering this question?

LuckyJim

[Lucky Jim]

Friends,

I would be interested to hear what, if anything, you would have done differently now that you've had a chance to detach and reflect on your BPD r/s?

I have my own ideas, but would rather hear from you first.

Anyone feel like taking a stab at answering this question?

LuckyJim

[Insom]

Wow, interesting question, Lucky Jim!

This is a tough one because my relationship happened such a long time ago.  But I do remember this . . .

When I was in the relationship I remember understanding that I wasn't equipped to handle conflict with my partner very well - things would ALWAYS deteriorate and go circular.  And I remember wondering if I was more mature and confident, and had better communication skills, could I have been a better partner and helped him heal?  Whether or not a more mature version of me would have wanted to help him heal is another question entirely.  I see now I had a lot of healing of my own to do.

If I could have gotten real, effective help for myself earlier, that would have been a good thing for me, I think.  So, in retrospect I'd have liked to do that.

[once removed]

If I could have gotten real, effective help for myself earlier, that would have been a good thing for me, I think.  So, in retrospect I'd have liked to do that.

i agree with Insom.

monday morning quarterbacking for me leaves all sorts of valid options. i could have ended it. that would have been valid. i also could have done better. i could have cleaned up my side of the street; i brought my share of dysfunction into the relationship.

i think having the knowledge and resources would have helped. perhaps one or even both of those things would have occurred. id have been better informed, things would have gone a lot more smoothly, however they went.

[Seenowayout]

I've been asking myself this too. 

From the very beginning of the relationship it was a cycle of her running away over some perceived hurt and me reeling her back in. I always reeled her back in. One time she actually expressed remorse.  Deep remorse.  She thought she broke the relationship.  I of course reeled her back in

I should have stopped reeling, just let her go early. Let her feel responsible.  Her accusations only got crazier and crazier as I kept reeling her in.

[zachira]

I now know that with a healthy partner, there is rarely a sudden change from nice behavior to being really mean to others. People who respect themselves and others, usually treat people the way they want to be treated.  I am working on paying more attention to words, actions, and body language so I can better spot the people who are being nice to be manipulative and not genuinely nice people. I am learning more about what behaviors I cannot accept under any circumstances, and once these behaviors manifest themselves, to walk away. I like your question, and am looking forward to reading what others have to say.

[Jeffree]

About all I can think of was to stay "done" with the marriage when I said I was done in one of our first marriage counseling sessions about 2 years in. I managed to hold on for another 5 years. So much agony, wasted money, lost jobs, sorrow, fighting, etc. could have been avoided.

I know there's nothing I could have done to save the marriage.

J

[stixx44]

I was not in love with her until about 4 months in.  But I saw the red flags earlier than that.  I so wanted to make the relationship into what I wanted that I ignored the signs.  By the time I knew there was something wrong, I had fallen for her deeply.  I couldn’t just walk away.

Had I known that she had this disorder, I might have reacted differently to her rages and walking away scenes.  I would have had boundaries.  I would not have been the desperate doormat I became.

And I would have gotten out earlier.  I always thought I could help her, but now I know I can’t. She has to help herself.

[heartandwhole]

Hi LJ,

My first instinct is to say that I would have exited the relationship earlier, but I did exit after 6 months.

Then 3 months later, I made myself available for a friendship while my father's health was rapidly declining. Then the friendship became more, again.

I think now I would base my decisions much more on actions than words.

heartandwhole

[Speck]

Hey, Lucky Jim!

This is a great question and one that I ask myself a lot. The answer changes daily, but today it is this:

Since my wife left me four times, and like Seenowayout, I kept acting against my better judgment and kept reeling her back in (trying my damnedest to keep the marriage intact), I would have to say now, I should have let her keep on walking the first time she did her magic disappearing act.

I realize now that I did not honor myself by allowing my wife to treat me with such disregard, and this most likely set the stage for her to test me in this way over and over and over. Basically, I gave her permission to disrespect me because she could see that I did not respect myself.

This is a hard pill to swallow... .


-Speck

[toomanydogs]

Hey LJ,
Great thread.

I also ask myself what I could have/should have done differently. I think I'd have gotten my own therapist immediately, and I would have worked on not personalizing his behavior.

That said, once I did stop personalizing his behavior, I ended up establishing very firm boundaries, and then the marriage ended. It's quite possible that had I not personalized his behavior and had I established firm boundaries, then the marriage would have died long ago.

TMD

[Aiko]

Not ignored the red flags that my gutt was screaming over but that my heart and brain weren't listening to. And then once I figured it out, stayed away for good and not recycled back so many times. Better boundaries, the first time crossed, trusting myself that it was not recoverable vs she will change... .some things are just off limits w/o detailing them here.  Healthy people don't even think some of those things let alone say them, or worse act upon them.
So, bottom line... trust what I knew vs tricking myself.

[byfaith]

I would have dated differently. I would have taken more time to actually get to know her instead of jumping in over my head. I wish I would have realized how hurt I was when my first wife left me and had gotten help for that. I thought I was ok and that I knew what I wanted. I think I really did know what I wanted and she came along and pretended to be all that.

It was a long learning process being married to someone with BPD. I am glad I am actually dating people in a healthy manner now. I am still learning how not to dive head first into something.

I would have listened to my gut. I remember things going through my head that were saying you know this could cause you a problem but I ignored them because I thought I could change someone by influencing them toward the good. At that time I did not know what BPD was. All I knew was that she dealt with depression.

[MeandThee29]

I don't think there was near the awareness then, but I would have gotten therapy in my 20's before marrying. I would have had to go to a nearby city, but I wish that I had done that so that I didn't telegraph the neediness that my pwBPD/NPD found so attractive.

When there were hints of trouble ten years ago, I would have been more aggressive about therapy for myself related to my marriage. I was seeing a therapist about dealing with my NPD mother, but I should have been sharing about some of the extremes my pwBPD was showing too. He began threatening separation and divorce then, and I should have been calling him on that. He generally refused counselling (and still does), but I cowered instead of drawing a line in the sand. All the years of threats wore me down and made me weak.

Just over a year ago, we separated, he tried to commit suicide, we reconciled, and then we separated again a few months later. After the suicide attempt, I was too eager to take him back and basically dropped all of the boundaries with the idea that he needed that. We should have somehow remained separated and in some sort of counselling situation, which is actually what they recommended at one point.  I even went along with him quitting counselling a month after we reconciled. I don't know if it would have really helped our marriage, but we should have had family therapy. It would have helped me see things more for what they were and would have helped our young adults. A family therapist was the one who suggested separation back in August, and I quizzed her on what would have happened if all four of us had been seeing her after the suicide attempt. No guarantees, but things might have gone better in terms of how the young adults and I coped.

Basically I wish that I had sought more professional help along the way.

[JNChell]

The relationship wouldn’t have survived regardless if I had done anything different. But, there are some things I wish I would’ve done differently for my sake. I would’ve... .

1. Stayed in therapy when I met her.
2. Not ignored the  ’s as a clear and present danger.
3. Not used alcohol as a coping mechanism.
4. Put myself into therapy instead of putting us into therapy.
5. Stuck to my values, interests and boundaries.

I think I’d be much better off at this point in time had I been more attuned to my self presvation. I own this. It’s mine to correct. Great thread!

[Lucky Jim]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful replies.  I'm happy to host a discussion with all you wise folks!

OK, I'll jump in.

I would have been more authentic.  I pretended a lot in my marriage, in order to preserve the illusion that things were OK for me when in reality I was suffering a Caesar-like death by a thousand cuts. 

I would have maintained better boundaries.  I tiptoed around my spouse because I lacked the tools to stand firm when necessary.

I would have let the chips fall more often.  Instead, I participated in a Watergate-style "cover-up" designed to hide my Ex's disorder from the outside world.

I would have listened to my gut feelings more.  On some level, I knew that my life was way off-course, because I had a pit in my stomach much of the time.  I ignored my deepest feelings, to my own detriment.

I would have reached out more to family and friends.  I allowed myself to get isolated in a weird Twilight Zone with my BPDxW, at the expense of good friends and close relationships with family members, who fortunately never gave up on me.

I would have treated myself with more care and compassion.  I let myself get ground to a pulp, ostensibly for the good of my marriage and family.

I would have allowed myself to change courses, rather than blindly following my misplaced sense of loyalty.  Instead, I continued on a collision course out of a misguided sense that falling back and regrouping would have been dishonorable, and tantamount to "quitting."

Do I think any of these things would have changed the outcome?  For me the answer is No.  If anything, it might have accelerated the leaving process.  At the end of the day, my marriage to my BPDxW wasn't built for the long haul.

Thanks to all,
LJ

[Seenowayout]

I would have reached out more to family and friends.  I allowed myself to get isolated in a weird Twilight Zone with my BPDxW, at the expense of good friends and close relationships with family members, who fortunately never gave up on me.

I totally relate to that LJ

[Speck]

Lucky Jim:

Thank you for sharing. This, here, is beautifully written:

Do I think any of these things would have changed the outcome?  For me the answer is No.  If anything, it might have accelerated the leaving process.  At the end of the day, my marriage to my BPDxW wasn't built for the long haul.

Had I gotten out of the way, my marriage would have ended 10 years ago, like it should have.

Living and learning... .


-Speck

[Lucky Jim]

Had I gotten out of the way, my marriage would have ended 10 years ago, like it should have.

Thanks, Speck.  Nicely said (above).  Live and learn is right.  LJ

[MeandThee29]

I would have been more authentic.  I pretended a lot in my marriage, in order to preserve the illusion that things were OK for me when in reality I was suffering a Caesar-like death by a thousand cuts. 

I would have maintained better boundaries.  I tiptoed around my spouse because I lacked the tools to stand firm when necessary.

I would have let the chips fall more often.  Instead, I participated in a Watergate-style "cover-up" designed to hide my Ex's disorder from the outside world.

Do I think any of these things would have changed the outcome?  For me the answer is No.  If anything, it might have accelerated the leaving process.  At the end of the day, my marriage to my BPDxW wasn't built for the long haul.

Yes, I put up with a lot of cr*p because I made excuses. He was ill. He was on medication. He worked long hours. When I did object, he would flip it on me. His thesis for years has been that I was only out for myself and that I made up all the times that he showered me in personal attacks. Good wives put up with whatever their husband does.

The therapist predicted separation long before it happened. She said that even if I was willing to do anything to save the relationship, he would get tired of my "lack of devotion" and leave.  He did.

And here we are. Apart from a miracle, I can't see this going to anything but long-term separation or divorce.

[valet]

I would have left the relationship a year and a half earlier and gone NC 3 years earlier.

My biggest issues were ignoring the red flags and not trusting my own gut feelings about things. I wanted it to work, but knew it wouldn't at a core level. And I suffered through years of abuse (which I continue to recover from in various ways) because I didn't go with my instincts.

I think slowly I've come to the realization that I really did try as hard as I could with my ex. I practiced the tools and techniques. I went to therapy. I learned a lot about myself, but none of that was going to change who my ex was. It was a lost cause and I didn't want to admit it to myself.

There might have been hope if she were someone else. She's not though. So if I had a mulligan I would have really thought about that and acted on it.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Lucky Jim,  I would not have gone against my core values and tolerated and even accepted behavior that violated my values.  Things happened while we were dating that didn’t align with my inner code of conduct.   Somehow, I was so desperate for him to be who I needed, that I put my own values aside and just got deeper into the relationship.  I would have know what boundaries were, and I would have set them to protect myself.

37 years later, detaching is like the slowest ever  pulling off of the bandaid. Ouch, ouch, ouch... .

Good question and I am interested I what you and others have to share.

[Lucky Jim]

I really did try as hard as I could with my ex. I practiced the tools and techniques. I went to therapy. I learned a lot about myself, but none of that was going to change who my ex was. It was a lost cause and I didn't want to admit it to myself.

There might have been hope if she were someone else. She's not though. So if I had a mulligan I would have really thought about that and acted on it.

Absolutely, valet.  I was unwilling to admit to myself that my marriage had broken down irretrievably, in part because I believed in honoring my marriage vows but also because I mistakenly thought that I could crack the BPD Code, which proved way too elusive for me.

MeandThee29: I'm sorry to hear what you have been through.  Right, we Nons tend to be hardy sorts who put up with a lot of cr*p.  :)on't beat yourself up!  We all could have done things differently, as everyone on this thread can attest.

LuckyJim

[Lucky Jim]

I would not have gone against my core values and tolerated and even accepted behavior that violated my values.  Things happened while we were dating that didn’t align with my inner code of conduct.   Somehow, I was so desperate for him to be who I needed, that I put my own values aside and just got deeper into the relationship.  I would have know what boundaries were, and I would have set them to protect myself.

Ditto to all of the above, Mustbe.  I put up with abuse from my BPDxW that went counter to my core values, due to a misguided sense of commitment as well as my fantasy that things would level out and the drama would subside, which proved to be a mirage.  LJ

[Jeffree]

I put up with abuse from my BPDxW that went counter to my core values, due to a misguided sense of commitment as well as my fantasy that things would level out and the drama would subside, which proved to be a mirage.

As did I, Lucky Jim. It started off as small misunderstandings that seemed simple enough to overcome, then those misunderstandings didn't get resolved or forgotten about by the STBx and would fester then be added to additional misunderstandings and philosophical differences. Eventually her resentments morphed into abusive statements that eventually caused me to fight verbal fire with verbal fire. Nothing ever made any difference and things only kept getting worse because she wouldn't let any of the negativity go.  

Before I knew it, 7 years were wasted just like that.

I should add that at first making up was great, then that too slowly eventually became fraught with peril. It was like slow torture as the arguing became more constant, what I had to do to limit my interactions with her more drastic, and the making up nonexistent.

J

[Turkish]

Over 4 years out,  I would have done certain things differently.

Given that she abandoned her subsequent H, even though she's not finished with him, I don't think it would have made a difference.  Just postponed the inevitable abandonment.

Where she is now,  maybe I could work with,  given what I know now.  Given what I know,  I would run.  I let her in my house tonight.  She brought the kids pizza. She discussed her anger,  relating it to an incident with S8. She's "working on it." He was in tears in that incident. I can best be there for him apart. Poor guy.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Thanks, Speck.  Nicely said (above).  Live and learn is right.  LJ

So many times, I did not let the relationship take it's natural course.  Even from before our marriage.  I have thought a lot about how I could have let him go when he wanted to at multiple points in our relationship, and how I could have gone when I had strong conviction that I should have.  Instead, I dragged both of us back together countless times.  

Just like Monday morning quarterbacking, there is no way to do any of it over.  But, thankfully, there is still time to learn from my mistakes; to learn more about myself, and to forgive myself for my mistakes.

This is a good topic.  I have enjoyed reading all the responses.

Take care,  Mustbeabetterway

[Lucky Jim]

But, thankfully, there is still time to learn from my mistakes; to learn more about myself, and to forgive myself for my mistakes.

Hey Mustbe, Forgiving yourself is a great place to start, in my view.  Hey, we're all human.  In the aftermath of my divorce, I had to learn to love and accept myself, which sounds easy but is actually pretty hard when one is coming out of a BPD r/s.  For me, I felt shame about having been the object of my Ex's abuse, which sounds backwards but that's what I experienced.  Now I've let go of that shame, which makes for a much lighter feeling.

LJ

[Frank88]

I would have walked away the second we met. And if not that, broke up after the first crazy incident, which was just a couple months in.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Frank88, Why did you persist after that initial crazy incident?  I often ponder this question, which to me is a little different, perhaps a subtle difference, than asking, why did you stay?

Let's open it up to the group.  Friends, why did you persist with a BPD r/s that you knew was unhealthy and/or dysfunctional?

LuckyJim

[Jeffree]

Thinking back, I persisted while I thought the misunderstandings were just a matter of communicating clearly through adversity. It wasn't until much later that I faced the fact that the misunderstandings were purposely propagated in her attempt to turn me from white, to light grey, to grey, to dark grey, to black.

Once I realized it was hopeless I just gave up even while we co-habitated because unraveling the marriage, the kids, the pets, the finances, and such was just too heavy a lift while she was in the house.

It was never just, "I hate her; I'm out of here." That just never seemed to be a sensible thing to do... .the whole cutting off my nose to spite my face.

J