Help - needed a break and feeling guilty

[Parents! Get help here!]

I have a 29 year old son who causes lots of problems.  He has been out of prison for two years and his dad and I have helped him almost weekly to get on his feet.  He does not respect rules or rights of others so both his dad and I agree he needs to live elsewhere.  Probably because we feel guilty we help him a lot with rent money.  However he seems to make up stories all the time to get money from us.  It’s not like his behavior is new.  He has been in trouble all his life.  Part of me loves him so much and another part of me is sick and tired of his constant lies and manipulation.  His latest fiasco is he deposited 5 hot checks into a joint account we have.  After I saw the first two I specifically told him to stop doing that and went with him to the bank so the banker could assure him if checks bounced I would be responsible.  Of course he assured me they were good.  The next day he deposited three more.  He would then go to different Walmart’s around town and buy a pack of gum and use his debit card to get 100.00 cash. Since I had co-signed on the account (I co-signed on a cash account that was supposed to be impossible to overdraw because he was just out of prison and couldn’t get an account on his own.)  I was held responsible for the total of 2600 when all the checks bounced.  My son swears he was just helping a friend out but I think he saw a way to get more money.  He barely survives and lives in shacks.  His girlfriend is pregnant and is untrustworthy.  

After this happened I told him I loved him but I needed a break to think.  I blocked his number in my phone.  That was two months ago.  I started working with a therapist and she recommended the book “stop walking on eggshells”.  I have to say getting a break has been wonderful.  Not to have crises and chaos in my life is so nice.  BUT... .I feel so guilty.  Guilty about turning away from my son and guilty about not caring for this grandchild that will be born soon.  

I adopted my son and I’m 62 and I don’t want to try and save another child.  If I agreed to take this child I’m sure he’d have no problem having another one.  But I do feel guilty... . any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

[Sooz iee]

I have a 29 year old son who causes lots of problems.  He has been out of prison for two years and his dad and I have helped him almost weekly to get on his feet.  He does not respect rules or rights of others so both his dad and I agree he needs to live elsewhere.  Probably because we feel guilty we help him a lot with rent money.  However he seems to make up stories all the time to get money from us.  It’s not like his behavior is new.  He has been in trouble all his life.  Part of me loves him so much and another part of me is sick and tired of his constant lies and manipulation.  His latest fiasco is he deposited 5 hot checks into a joint account we have.  After I saw the first two I specifically told him to stop doing that and went with him to the bank so the banker could assure him if checks bounced I would be responsible.  Of course he assured me they were good.  The next day he deposited three more.  He would then go to different Walmart’s around town and buy a pack of gum and use his debit card to get 100.00 cash. Since I had co-signed on the account (I co-signed on a cash account that was supposed to be impossible to overdraw because he was just out of prison and couldn’t get an account on his own.)  I was held responsible for the total of 2600 when all the checks bounced.  My son swears he was just helping a friend out but I think he saw a way to get more money.  He barely survives and lives in shacks.  His girlfriend is pregnant and is untrustworthy.  

After this happened I told him I loved him but I needed a break to think.  I blocked his number in my phone.  That was two months ago.  I started working with a therapist and she recommended the book “stop walking on eggshells”.  I have to say getting a break has been wonderful.  Not to have crises and chaos in my life is so nice.  BUT... .I feel so guilty.  Guilty about turning away from my son and guilty about not caring for this grandchild that will be born soon.  

I adopted my son and I’m 62 and I don’t want to try and save another child.  If I agreed to take this child I’m sure he’d have no problem having another one.  But I do feel guilty... . any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JustYouWait]

Sooz -

Good morning, and welcome here. 

That's a lot to unpack up there and I'm sorry you're going through this.  There is a lot of guilt associated with self-protection (which to my untrained mind, it sounds like you're doing). 

Has your son been diagnosed with BPD?  One of the primary traits associated with BPD (again, in my untrained experience) is severe manipulation.  As a parent, it goes against our very nature not to provide for our kids at all times, but there is a point, a point that you have seem to have reached.  Many times, as we begin to set boundaries, the relationship gets more and more difficult.

I'm sorry you had to find us, but I'm glad you found us. 

You are not alone.

As different as our stories are (mine is a female, 19, who self-harms), I can truly empathize with your feelings of guilt.  I have them.  Many of us have guilt.  I am so glad to hear that you are seeing a therapist, as am I, as are many of us here.  It helps.

Just someone to tell you that you are NOT a monster.  Not a bad person.  Not a bad parent. And that you are ok, or will be.

Again, you are not alone.

Welcome.  Post as often or as infrequently as you are comfortable.  Tell us everything or nothing.  It's ok.

You are not alone.

There are a great many resources, articles, and videos on this site.  Take a peek at some of them, or don't.  It's up to you.

Most importantly, you are not alone.

-jyw

[Mutt]

Hi Sooz iee,

 

Id like to join JustYouWait and welcome you to the family. I’m sorry for the circumstances stances that led you here. It helps to talk to others that can relate with you and offer you guidance and support. You’re not alone. There is hope.

There is a lot of guilt associated with self-protection (which to my untrained mind, it sounds like you're doing).

I don’t have a child I have an ex with BPD traits I can relate with the guilty feelings although it’s on a different scale for you it’s probably worse.  I look at like even though that they have a mental illness they have a responsibility to take care of themselves and if they refuse to then you’re continuously putting yourself in harms way he has a choice to get help for himself and you have aright to protect yourself - he’s telegraphing that he’s not ready to help himself. You never know this could be the catalyst for change for him usually a pwBPD will get help when they’ve backed themselves in a corner.

[Speck]

Welcome, Sooz iee!



I just wanted to pop in and join both JustYouWait and Mutt in welcoming you to the discussion forums. Mostly we are here because someone in our lives has behaviors that are characteristic of BPD. They haven't all been diagnosed with BPD, but it's the behaviors, and how we deal with them, that is important. You will see from reading the posts here that you are far from alone.

Thank you for sharing what you have thus far:

After this happened I told him I loved him but I needed a break to think.  I blocked his number in my phone.  That was two months ago.

It sounds like you are setting some healthy boundaries for your own sake. I think that's wonderful, and, by the way... .it's healthy to do so. I commend you for taking this action.

I started working with a therapist and she recommended the book “stop walking on eggshells”.  I have to say getting a break has been wonderful.  Not to have crises and chaos in my life is so nice.

 

I am so glad that you have reached out to a therapist. Has the book been helpful to you? Are you seeing your relationship with your son with new eyes?

BUT... .I feel so guilty.  Guilty about turning away from my son and guilty about not caring for this grandchild that will be born soon.

To this, I have to echo what Mutt is saying in that your adult son has a responsibility to conduct himself as an adult. I know it's hard to watch, but continuously rescuing our adult children from their own bad choices only ensures the next dilemma. It may be best to just step back a bit and allow your son to either flounder or fly.
 

But I do feel guilty... .  any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

It sounds like you are having a really tough time. I'm sorry for that and glad you have found a place which can help you gain the answers that you seek. You are not a bad parent, and you have nothing for which to feel guilty. Again, stepping back a bit may be more helpful to your son than you can know right now. Further, I can sense that you need to give yourself the gift of peace and clarity, and setting boundaries is a good first step in this regard. Maintaining them is also crucial!

You will find a lot of people here to talk to, who will provide you with support and some good advice. Keep posting - it is very therapeutic, and you will be greeted by so many people with circumstances similar to your own. You will be amazed. Take care of yourself.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning!


-Speck

[Feeling Better]

Hello Sooz iee

I would like to join the others in welcoming you to the board.

A lot of parents when they first come here are full of guilt, myself included, and guilt can cause us to make bad decisions. There is an excellent article on FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt. You can click below to access it.
Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)

Perhaps if you give it a read you might be able to get a better perspective on things and hopefully lessen your feelings of guilt.
What do you think?

[Sooz iee]

So I’m trying to figure out how to reply to all your messages.  I just wrote a long reply but I think it got lost as I don’t see it anywhere.  So here goes another try.

Feeling Better, JustYouWait, Mutt and Speck,

Thank you so much for the responses you sent me!  It helps a lot to have other people understand why I chose to set a boundary with my son and not condemn me for it.

Has anyone here chosen to discontinue a relationship with their child as it is just too manipulative?  My son lies to me constantly and I just don’t know how to have a relationship with someone who is not truthful.  I mean some of his lies are outrageous!

I suppose when I set the boundary I didn’t think that it could be the end of our relationship?  It helps when you guys tell me this boundary could help him.  I hope so.  And if not, my constant helping him wasn’t helping him either.

I have read the FOG article and look forward to all the great info!

Thank you again and hopefully this post will go through!

Sooz Iee

[Speck]

Hello again, Sooz iee:

It helps a lot to have other people understand why I chose to set a boundary with my son and not condemn me for it.

No, here we give out gold stars to people who set boundaries! Or, . Whichever. Regardless, no one here is going to condemn you for setting a boundary with your son, or with anyone for that matter.

Has anyone here chosen to discontinue a relationship with their child as it is just too manipulative?

I'm positive there are many members here dealing with this exact thing. But I can relate; in my case, I allowed my uBPDxw to walk away from me and divorce me (without protest from me) due to ten years of threats of multiple breakups, actual multiple breakups, and manipulative behavior. Sometimes, ya just gotta say, "I've given enough... .I am done."

I suppose when I set the boundary I didn’t think that it could be the end of our relationship?

I don't get from you that this was your intention at all. Your setting a boundary is probably a brand new thing for you to do, and he will, no doubt, take note. Hopefully, he will get the lesson, and therefore, he will be forced to learn a new way to relate to you. Or, not... .but, it's up to him. The ball is in his court now.

It helps when you guys tell me this boundary could help him. I hope so. And if not, my constant helping him wasn’t helping him either.

Navigating people's boundaries and sense of space, personhood, individuality, etc. is a life skill. You are still his teacher, and I think your setting boundaries with him could, as Mutt says, be a catalyst for change. Necessary change. The trick is staying consistent.

We are always open. Feel free to share as little or as much as you need.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning!


-Speck

[Feeling Better]

Hi Sooz lee,

Oh, it’s so annoying and frustrating when you’ve written a long post only to lose it. It’s happened to me a few times too.

You are so doing the right thing in setting boundaries, no need for any guilt, boundaries are there for you, to protect you and your values. You do not like the lies that your son tells and you are entitled to communicate that to him along with any consequences. So well done you. 
It is up to your son how he chooses to react, you have no control over that, setting boundaries doesn’t always mean the end of a relationship, they can make a relationship much healthier x

[once removed]

boundaries are about having a relationship that is safe, and works.

what does this look like in practice in your case?

your son lies about money. this understandably diminishes your trust.

some possible options:

1. draw a hard line. give him zero money for any reason at any time

2. draw a medium line. give what you can, no more no less. that might mean x dollar amount every month, week, whenever, no more, no less, with the understanding that hes going to use that money for whatever purpose, good or bad, but there will be no further money under any condition.

what do you think?

[Sooz iee]

Thanks for the suggestion Once Removed!

My son lies about everything!  He is always the victim and wants people to feel sorry for him.  He has told his friends he has stomach cancer... .not true.

He told his girlfriend that his Dad stole money from him as he sent money Home when he was in prison.  He supposedly sold art work and his Dad didn’t save the money but stole it... .not true

He wrote a letter to a friend saying his little brother died in a car crash... .not true.

He said he was present when his birth mother shot herself and died... .not true.

He said he was present when his birth father shot a man outside a restaurant and his father is in prison for life... .not true.

And he makes up stories about how he needs money and will pay me back... .it goes on and on.

I do have compassion for just how sick he is. 

Both your suggestions are good.  I have had no contact at all for two months.  Prior to that I was giving him no more than 300.00 a month.  And I’ve got to say it has been freeing to have no contact... .but I do feel guilty.

His child should be born anyday and I’m hoping they will make an adoption plan as neither of them are in a position to parent.  But I feel soo bad for the baby.  But holding him up doesn’t seem like the right thing to do.  And after stealing 2600 from me I’ve blocked him.

I love what Speck said about “the ball is in his court”.  That’s how I feel.  He stole from me and lies to me constantly.  However I have blocked him so he can’t call or text.  So should I unblock him?  And see if he tries to contact me?  He could always call or text from another number?

Thank you everyone for all the support!  And suggestions!  It is an act of kindness to me!

Sooz Iee

[Speck]

Sooz iee,

I love what Speck said about “the ball is in his court”.  That’s how I feel.  He stole from me and lies to me constantly.  However I have blocked him so he can’t call or text.  So should I unblock him?  And see if he tries to contact me?  He could always call or text from another number?

This is a really tough situation, but now that your boundaries are in place, perhaps, you could leave the lines of communication open. If he wants to reach out to you and call you directly, then he can, if he so chooses. What do you think?


-Speck

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[once removed]

pretty significant lies, to be sure.

He told his girlfriend that his Dad stole money from him as he sent money Home when he was in prison.  He supposedly sold art work and his Dad didn’t save the money but stole it... .not true

this one is particularly concerning since it speaks to reputation and potential liability.

as im sure you know, a hallmark and trait of BPD is a high degree of impulsivity. this can speak to the way he handles his money, the means he uses to get it, and the lying.

His child should be born anyday

how are you feeling about this?

So should I unblock him? 

i think that if youre considering opening up the lines of communication, you need a strong plan in place. i think as a benchmark, this would include protecting your financial assets (no access on his end). obviously, and understandably, there is little to no trust, and thats largely up to him to rebuild, if/when he intends to do so.

as for the lies, id take them on a case by case basis. if they are damaging to you or your husbands reputation or there are potential legal consequences, thats a different kettle of fish. if he tells you (for example) that his girlfriend is blind, its obnoxious, but not threatening, and you can disregard it. if its about money, you have options. i suggested some, there are others.

what do you think?

[Sooz iee]

Thanks for your response once removed!

How do I feel about his child being born?  I wish I could be happy but I’m not.  It makes me sad and opens up the door for more manipulation... .”I need more money cuz the baby needs diapers, clothes, food, medical care etc... .”  I have zero trust! I think I could fall in love with this child and then be blackmailed... .and so I really just feel sad for the baby. 

I would like to have no contact because his life is such absolute chaos and misery.  But I feel guilty about that and have to be able to live with myself.  So I kinda think I will unblock him and wait to hear something.  But I will have to have strong boundaries if we reconnect.  And I think the ball is in his court.  He needs to come up with a plan.  However I’m sure in his head he has made this all my fault.

Thanks so much!  It’s really something to get feedback from you all!