Unclear situation

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

ps, looks like you and Red5 (posted on this thread) have some common background.

Which leads to common struggle.  Military guys tend to be goal oriented, tend to think logically (arrange things to reach said goal) and while we are aware that some emotion is going on... ."hey... .we have a mission... .we'll do emotions later."

Well... .that mindset and a person that is "ruled" by emotions... .is a very interesting combination (to be polite).

FF

[formflier]

ps, looks like you and Red5 (posted on this thread) have some common background.

Which leads to common struggle.  Military guys tend to be goal oriented, tend to think logically (arrange things to reach said goal) and while we are aware that some emotion is going on... ."hey... .we have a mission... .we'll do emotions later."

Well... .that mindset and a person that is "ruled" by emotions... .is a very interesting combination (to be polite).

FF

[Circle]

F.F.,
My father was military also. I can sort of get what you are talking about. He does seem to be very good at keeping his emotions below the surface. Of course, being his son, I can sense the wheels turning. And, it ends up manifesting in other ways: delayed responses, ignoring, etc.
Still, to his benefit, he never loses it on people. Which can be seen as good or bad, I guess. Sometimes, it's better to know where people stand, even if that means they have a short fuse.


Red5,
"I wise person once told me, ... ."if you want to know how your soon 2B ex-wife is going to treat you, just take a look at how she treats/treated the poor sod before you came along ... .yes, the gut, trust it, ... .said another way, listen to your intuition, its never wrong."

I have thought about your quote. Her X-Husband was military too. I guess he started drinking heavily after returning home. Yet, another part of her rationale for asking him to move out was that despite working full time, he was not making enough money.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Speaking of military.  Before I knew what I was doing, I was signed up with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children on my 18th birthday!  It became my paradigm for who I am.  I can only guess what behaviors I was born with, and what I developed on active duty.  For a while (okay, maybe the following 20 years) I know I had a lot of rough edges.  I gained a lot of beneficial attributes, with a host of unfortunate flaws.  To name a few, I was not patient, or empathetic enough, and probably opted to the military solution of breaking down challenges when faced with them - which doesn't work with kid care and marriage!
 
I also know that I have a trait that has military origins, of being duty-bound, and that has kept me in a historically verbally and emotionally abusive marriage - with (shockingly) me as the victim.  I have internal scripts such as "marriage is a contract, and I keep my contracts," and "I signed up for marriage, so marriage is what I get.  Good, bad, and ugly."  In perspective, I realize now that no healthy male would have put up with the marriage conditions, and likely not stayed married like I did. 

I'm perplexed now that I've taken a more Zen approach to life, and gotten a much softer heart, that I actually might have been an empath in wolf's clothing.  I concerned myself a great deal with others and their needs and feelings.  I used the military mindset to go after that - at the cost of my own freedom, health, and sanity.

[Red5]

Speaking of military.  Before I knew what I was doing, I was signed up with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children on my 18th birthday!  It became my paradigm for who I am.  

... .I can only guess what behaviors I was born with, and what I developed on active duty.  
 
I also know that I have a trait that has military origins, of being duty-bound, and that has kept me in a historically verbally and emotionally abusive marriage - with (shockingly) me as the victim.  

I have internal scripts such as "marriage is a contract, and I keep my contracts," and "I signed up for marriage, so marriage is what I get.  Good, bad, and ugly."  

In perspective, I realize now that no healthy male would have put up with the marriage conditions, and likely not stayed married like I did.  

I'm perplexed now that I've taken a more Zen approach to life, and gotten a much softer heart, that I actually might have been an empath in wolf's clothing.  I concerned myself a great deal with others and their needs and feelings.  I used the military mindset to go after that - at the cost of my own freedom, health, and sanity.

HIGHJACK !

Me2 Sam !... .Uncle Sam's Misguided Children... .said another way, "U (you) Signed My Contract !

Yeah, Me2 Sam, .age eighteen to age forty-five, Semper Fidelis !... .so the die is set.

... .and like you, I am now somewhat of a "Zen", .and add in bigfoot enthusiasts, tree hugging, "grow your own" and recycle hoarding kind of guy, ."over fifty"

"I concerned myself a great deal with others and their needs and feelings, I used the military mindset to go after that - at the cost of my own freedom, health, and sanity." ~> caretaker !

Like any good Marine SNCO (creed) worth his salt !

After all the crazy $hit I did, and was around, and lived with (put up with) in the Corps (USMC) all those years, this marriage stuff should be a "walk in the park"... .hmmm ?

I stayed way too long in my first marriage, twenty-one (+) years; I stayed literally until it sank beneath my feet, and I was swept off the deck so to speak as the ship (marriage) sank, I did not leave it, "it left me"... .and then I prematurely () "dated" after the divorce (mistake), .then off to the submarine races with u/BPD wife #2... .I guess by the time they sound taps for me, I will have learnt my lesson(s) for good  !

-SECURE FROM HIGHJACK-

Red5 ~> OUT

 

[formflier]

I'll give this thread a bump... .for the USMC! 

I think the "military attitudes" that many of us learned just need to be harnessed and focused for the mission at hand, I don't think they are inherently bad.

My understanding from several friends that are in "normal" marriages... .even yes... some that are "misguided children"... .that the military traits are actually attractive and helpful.

Said another way, I hope everyone can see that BPD and a rock hard Marine (or other military type) are on far ends of the spectrum as far as "emotional compatibility".

FF

[Red5]

I'll give this thread a bump... .for the USMC!  

I think the "military attitudes" that many of us learned just need to be harnessed and focused for the mission at hand, I don't think they are inherently bad.

My understanding from several friends that are in "normal" marriages... .even yes... some that are "misguided children"... .that the military traits are actually attractive and helpful.

Said another way, I hope everyone can see that BPD and a rock hard Marine (or other military type) are on far ends of the spectrum as far as "emotional compatibility".

FF

Funny, .I was watching the old movie "An Officer and a Gentlemen" last night, .well a least a scene here and there when u/BPDw was not paying attention to me and the TV remote ... .

Gunnery Sergeant Foley was "welcoming" the brand new Officer Candidates aboard... .you may remember the scene... .how he interacts with the young men and women there.

*command presence
*extreme confidence
*"no-nonsensical"
*measured and immediate evaluation of the candidates
*"tough love"
*"salty"

I am afraid to say, I am a lot like that in many of my own mannerisms, how I interact with people (yes really )... .I too was a "Gunny" for a few years whilst traveling through my time in the service, I guess you never can get the Marines outa the Marine, even after you get the Marine outa the Marines ... .when I am interacting with, dealing with, and caretaking with my u/BPDw... .I do sometimes catch myself reverting back to how I used to be when I was interacting with my "charges"... .I was a caretaker even back then, these young men and women whom were under my responsibility were indeed like my very own family, and my very children to me... .I cared for them, taught them, and "guided them", just like I did my own children at the time... .

Another famous "movie" character was Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, .he was harsh, non nonsense, unforgiving, .stern, unprovoked, and had keen insight, and also dominant "command presence"... .?

But life is not the movies is it ?

Like FF says, if we can harness, and utilize... .our perceived strengths, and use the tools we learnt effectively, seems the BPD could be easily handled... .after all, after going through so many trails and tribulations in life before hand, then the BPD thing can also be properly dealt with ?

Did I just say that   ?  !

... .enjoy the R. Lee Ermey clip below,

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=9EbKssmdKN0

Red5

[Red5]

I'll give this thread a bump... .for the USMC!   

I think the "military attitudes" that many of us learned just need to be harnessed and focused for the mission at hand, I don't think they are inherently bad.

My understanding from several friends that are in "normal" marriages... .even yes... some that are "misguided children"... .that the military traits are actually attractive and helpful.

Said another way, I hope everyone can see that BPD and a rock hard Marine (or other military type) are on far ends of the spectrum as far as "emotional compatibility".

FF

Funny, .I was watching the old movie "An Officer and a Gentlemen" last night, .well a least a scene here and there when u/BPDw was not paying attention to me and the TV remote ... .

Gunnery Sergeant Foley was "welcoming" the brand new Officer Candidates aboard... .you may remember the scene... .how he interacts with the young men and women there.

*command presence
*extreme confidence
*"no-nonsensical"
*measured and immediate evaluation of the candidates
*"tough love"
*"salty"

I am afraid to say, I am a lot like that in many of my own mannerisms, how I interact with people (yes really )... .I too was a "Gunny" for a few years whilst traveling through my time in the service, I guess you never can get the Marines outa the Marine, even after you get the Marine outa the Marines ... .when I am interacting with, dealing with, and caretaking with my u/BPDw... .I do sometimes catch myself reverting back to how I used to be when I was interacting with my "charges"... .I was a caretaker even back then, these young men and women whom were under my responsibility were indeed like my very own family, and my very children to me... .I cared for them, taught them, and "guided them", just like I did my own children at the time... .

hmmm,

Another famous "movie" character was Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, .he was harsh, salty, non nonsense, unforgiving, .stern, unprovoked, and had keen insight, and also dominant "command presence"... .?

But life is not the movies is it ?

Like FF says, if we can harness, and utilize... .our perceived strengths, and use the tools we learnt effectively, seems the BPD could be easily handled... .after all, after going through so many trails and tribulations in life before hand, then the BPD thing can also be properly dealt with ?

"Tell it to the Marines"  !

Did I just say that   ?  !

... .enjoy the R. Lee Ermey clip below,

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=9EbKssmdKN0

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

I don't have a military background, but perhaps I should have. When in college I took those aptitude tests, my number one career was "military officer" but I didn't go that direction, in fact I floundered after college and due to meeting my first husband (BPD on steroids), I floundered for many years afterwards.

Anyway, I do have a lot of those "military" personality traits: very organized, fact-based, project-oriented, responsible, logical and not emotional, everything in its place, etc. And I do understand that these traits can be very uncomfortable for a BPD partner who has wild emotional swings, has difficulty settling on a plan, needs constant reassurance, etc.

Circle, as far as spending time in the home of your girlfriend, you've said that you don't feel safe. I'd listen to those feelings. In between marriages to BPD husbands, I dated a man whose daughter definitely had a personality disorder and her behavior caused me to create quite a distance. She bounced back from his house to her mother's house in another state. At one point, after seeing some extremely deviant behavior for a young child, I called her therapist to report what I'd seen, much to the dismay of her father. I also, unbeknownst to him, spoke with her stepfather. He had been a police officer and told me that one night when he was walking the hallways holding the new baby, he was surprised to see her holding a kitchen knife to her throat. In addition, several relatives prevented her from spending time with their children because of her behavior and that she was the "scariest kid" he'd run across during his law enforcement career.

After I backed away from spending nights with her dad, her behavior toward me settled down and she acted more "normally". I took that to mean that she was threatened by my closeness to her father.

You may not have seen any problematic behavior from the BPD daughter, but I wanted to share my experience as a possible warning of what could happen.

[Circle]

Cat Familiar,
Thanks for the reply!
At the start of us dating is when the daughter became suicidal, and claimed to be unable to control her thoughts and vivid imagery of wanting to commit suicide.
This is when they threw out BPD as a possible diagnosis too.
I have no doubt, that she was feeling that way.
About that time, I backed away from staying at the house.
Possibly a coincidence, yet she is showing improvement now.
Med adjustments, counseling and time are all factors too.

The other daughter, was just very typically adolescent, making vague possibly insulting digs and comments.

We are all supposed to hang out tomorrow, driving to an event.
I may drive seperately though.
Actually, I have lost interest in going anyway and now have to manage a situation that I have no desire to be a part of.

Thanks again for your feedback!

[formflier]

Possibly a coincidence, yet she is showing improvement now.
 

Very little chance of coincidence... .

FF

[Circle]

Update*
Hi everyone,
Things have evolved a bit over the last few weeks.
My sense that there could be something wrong has manifested.
I quit going to the woman I am dating's house before this thread began, due to concerns mentioned earlier in this post.
I didn't feel safe around the two teen girls.
In addition, the mom has such a busy schedule, that hanging out is nearly impossible.
And, when it is possible, she only wants to do so with her kids, because her time is constrained.
Staying with each other has been virtually eliminated.
I don't feel safe over there.
It isn't practical for her to stay with me.
I am left in the lurch.
One friend said 'why is she even dating?' (if she doesn't have the time to)
I feel sort of sad and sentimental, that it has not crystalized into something good.
Yet, I always felt like those girls were edgy and unpredictable teenagers.
The one daughter of hers, after suicidality and institutionalizing, was considered to be possibly BPD by her psychiatrists.
A new, even more frightening variable has emerged.
Now, the teens have accused their grandfather of molesting them.
It could very well be a true story.
Though, the same girl starting the accusations also claims to be able to feel the residual pain of dead people in cemeteries.
She also claims to see ghosts.
The detective has finished her work, and the case will go to prosecution soon.
It's another new factor.
And another reason to stay away from that house.
And, another reason that we have not had time to see each other.
I guess I don't know why I even care, or am holding on at all.
I should probably stop communications and just let go.
Yet, as typical on these boards, I remember my earlier sweet feelings for the mom, when we started dating.
I seem to be holding on to that.
Holding on to those sentimental sweet feelings.
When, none of this seems simple, possible, or fitting anymore.

[formflier]

I should probably stop communications and just let go.
 

I disagree.

I recommend keeping in contact... .claim to be busy (which i'm sure is true).  Keep open invitations for her to come see you (alone no kids)... .and be understanding and supportive when she can't.

Basically... .let this very gradually fade.  Should your lady decide she wants to start dating you apart from the home drama... .perhaps we need to engage more.

I think your intuition has served you well.  Keep listening to it

FF

[Circle]

F.F.,
Thankyou for your succinct reply.
I appreciate it and hear you.
I will keep listening to it.
That does seem like good advice.
Hope you have a good weekend,
C

[formflier]

In other words... no need to tell her you are done... .it would likely be triggering.

Just go slow... .do you own thing.  One reason to keep in touch is to keep an eye on things.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

The scary daughter that I mentioned in my previous post apparently told someone a few years later that she was planning on accusing her stepfather of molesting her if he didn't let her attend some event.

Very scary when they realize they have this power.

Apparently she never followed through with that threat.

On the other hand, she did act out sexually with other children. That's why she was not permitted to visit some of her relatives. It was thought that her grandfather might have sexually abused her because he took baths with her when she was at her mother's house, before the mother got together with her next husband (the stepfather I mentioned).

When the girl's father (who I was dating) found out about the bathing arrangements, he went ballistic. The grandfather and the mother both assured him that it was just "an European thing" but he somehow thought it was indicative of generational sexual molestation and that would explain some oddities with his former wife and her brother.

[Circle]

F.F.,
Thanks for clarifying.
I definitely see the wisdom in that.
And, thanks again, in general.

Like you say, if she actually does decide to start visiting me, may be tricky, and we may need to engage more.
She is my type in many ways, so a challenge to resist her, if I ever had to.
Won't change my boundary of being around the teens though.
-C

[Circle]

C.F.,
Interesting situation you came into contact with through the guy you dated.
Yes "an european thing", is pretty dang odd.
And, yeah, teens using this power in the wrong way, could be scary, for sure.
Dating has become a tiresome process for me, in mid-age.
Seems like every situation is loaded.
I don't believe in perfection.
Yet, it seems like people who are well-adjusted to a single life are pretty content.
Thankyou for sharing,
C

[formflier]

Yet, it seems like people who are well-adjusted to a single life are pretty content.
 

This is likely true... .because they have got their priorities straight and have likely put kids first, at least when they have kids.

Many discontent people tend to try to "want" more than they can have... .or have several #1 priorities in their life.  Which simply doesn't work out too well.

Again... listen to your intuition... .it has served you well here.      Good job seeing and acting on   you see.

FF

[Circle]

F.F.,
Thanks for your words of encouragement and consistency!
Have a good day,
C