A year NC and he emailed me.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I haven't been on here for a long time. I finally successfully got my undiagnosed BPD ex-boyfriend too move out and he moved across the country to stay with a friend. That was a year ago. He went to Germany and lived again with a woman for 9 months. At one time, he told me he is in love with 2 women--her and me.

1. He sent me an email last week, after a year with no contact. He says he is back in the country and plans to stop here where I live. His car is here in his friend's driveway.

2. I emailed that I was very busy and could only meet him once for lunch.  The email from me was pretty stoic, my therapist said it sounded like a slap in the face.

3. He emailed again trying to be chatty but it fell very flat with me. He asked if I'd advise him on places to stay here, though he has an airbnb. He plans to stay only 1-2 weeks, then drive to California maybe (where he used to live).  I haven't responded to that email.  Thinking I shouldn't. Or, I might just say I can't help him fin a place to live (which I did too often before). How bad is it to respond?

4. The friend with his car told me that my exBPD found an apt here for the summer. So my exBPD is likely lying or manipulating about only staying a week and in an airbnb.

I am torn between being a bit generous and responding, but not giving him an inch (I will not look for a place to live for him, etc.).  If I don't respond, he might not come here, which is good. If I don't respond, is that cruel from a BPD point of view. Not that I should worry about him. But I want to handle this well. 

And I think, too, of the death of Anthony Bourdain, whom we both loved. And how my exBPD has had suicidal tendencies.

I know I can't change him or prevent whatever will happen. But I don't want to feel like I have been the caused of undue pain for him either.

Thank you!

[anna58]

I haven't been on here for a long time. I finally successfully got my undiagnosed BPD ex-boyfriend too move out and he moved across the country to stay with a friend. That was a year ago. He went to Germany and lived again with a woman for 9 months. At one time, he told me he is in love with 2 women--her and me.

1. He sent me an email last week, after a year with no contact. He says he is back in the country and plans to stop here where I live. His car is here in his friend's driveway.

2. I emailed that I was very busy and could only meet him once for lunch.  The email from me was pretty stoic, my therapist said it sounded like a slap in the face.

3. He emailed again trying to be chatty but it fell very flat with me. He asked if I'd advise him on places to stay here, though he has an airbnb. He plans to stay only 1-2 weeks, then drive to California maybe (where he used to live).  I haven't responded to that email.  Thinking I shouldn't. Or, I might just say I can't help him fin a place to live (which I did too often before). How bad is it to respond?

4. The friend with his car told me that my exBPD found an apt here for the summer. So my exBPD is likely lying or manipulating about only staying a week and in an airbnb.

I am torn between being a bit generous and responding, but not giving him an inch (I will not look for a place to live for him, etc.).  If I don't respond, he might not come here, which is good. If I don't respond, is that cruel from a BPD point of view. Not that I should worry about him. But I want to handle this well. 

And I think, too, of the death of Anthony Bourdain, whom we both loved. And how my exBPD has had suicidal tendencies.

I know I can't change him or prevent whatever will happen. But I don't want to feel like I have been the caused of undue pain for him either.

Thank you!

[EdR]

Hi Anna,


I don't know your backstory, but because of the BPD component it probably is not too pretty.

But to answer your question, I think I should remove the BPD part from the equation temporarily.

The fact you said yourself you were prepared to have lunch is NOT a slap in the face. Your mail may sound not as nice, but the message itself is clear: let's have lunch.

So trying to be chatty afterwards does not sound off imo. Sounding less chatty might confuse him and he could even try to be more chatty to find out what is the matter.

You are now thinking about not replying anymore, though you made that lunch remark: that would be confusing as hell to me. So even more so for a pwBPD.

So imho I would now first try and make up your mind about what you want with this contact. And then act accordingly.
If you just want lunch and no more contact, just tell him honestly and meet up. But don't be surprised that although a 'sane' person would respect that, it still is quite the mixed signal and it warrants a sort of explanation.

That's my view from 'the other side'. Hope it helps :-)

[anna58]

Thanks. I needed the clarification. I am confused, and that is coming across. So, I am going to respond and set a clear boundary. One lunch is fine. I can't help him find a place to live.

[Dunder]

Anna, You are not responsible for his feelings, nor is he responsible for yours. If you don’t want him in your life, then the question of “causing him undue pain” is irrelevant. Decide what you want and then act accordingly. PwBPD manipulate empathetic and generous people like you. Stand your ground and protect yourself and know what you want and don’t want in your life. Nobody but you can make that happen.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey anna58, I'm with Dunder: you don't owe thing guy anything so don't allow him to manipulate you.  Suggest you do what is right for you.  If you're going to respond, I suggest you keep it business-like.  Suggest you be careful about dipping your toe back into the toxic BPD swamp.

LuckyJim

[anna58]

Dunder and Lucky Jim--Thank you. Very good, clear advice.

I did respond to his email with a  one-liner saying that I could not help him find a place to live (he asked if I knew if my old apt complex had openings).  His response was chilling:  "Cut the drama. I didn't ask you to find me a place to live. And, you broke your own "no contact" rule."

That last bit about NC really got me.  He meant that I said a year ago that I couldn't see him. We had no contact. Until that email that prompted me to post here.  I agreed to meet him for lunch.  He was right, I broke my rule. But how weird for him to point that out since he said he wanted to see me.

I am sad about the loss of companionship, his intelligence, humor. I don't have much in my life, but this past year, I have had more of myself than I did when I was with him.

Thanks for listening.

[EdR]

Dunder and Lucky Jim--Thank you. Very good, clear advice.

I did respond to his email with a  one-liner saying that I could not help him find a place to live (he asked if I knew if my old apt complex had openings).  His response was chilling:  "Cut the drama. I didn't ask you to find me a place to live. And, you broke your own "no contact" rule."

That last bit about NC really got me.  He meant that I said a year ago that I couldn't see him. We had no contact. Until that email that prompted me to post here.  I agreed to meet him for lunch.  He was right, I broke my rule. But how weird for him to point that out since he said he wanted to see me.

I am sad about the loss of companionship, his intelligence, humor. I don't have much in my life, but this past year, I have had more of myself than I did when I was with him.

Thanks for listening.

Did he scold you? Or was it just chilling.

Before I already tried to give a somewhat different perspective, so I will try to give one now as well.

In a way he has a point. It wasn't like he bombarded you with all these crazy messages in this NC period. He went to your town, so there was a clear reason to reach out. You replied by taking the lunch approach.

Probably a lot has already happened, so there is some doubt from both sides here. There is no doubt in my mind that he sensed your ambiguity here. Although lunch was okay, you wanted to make sure that that was it. Nothing more.
He probably got a little confused and aggravated by this and basically told you this way that there was nothing to worry about.

Maybe he didn't take the 'high road', but you said yourself that your message to him was a 'slap in the face' according to your T. So, did he act so differently? Or is his approach similar?

[Harley Quinn]

Hi anna,

How strange!  I was just thinking of you the other day and wondering how you're getting on.  I remember your story well, as your compassion and mixed feelings towards this man caused you a lot of strife at the time and I felt your distress come through in your posts.  From what I recall you spent a great deal of time trying not to hurt this man who was trampling over your boundaries and you were the one being hurt in the process.  There was a lot of turmoil for you.  :)o you think opening up yourself to a one off lunch with this man is wise?  What do you see that leading to?  

Yes you are missing certain aspects of his character, but let's not forget the other aspects which caused you a great deal of pain.  Those come with the package and you decided after a lot of uncertainty that this was more than you could tolerate and was bad for your health.  The things you miss can be found elsewhere by reaching out and expanding your own activities / network of social contacts by pursuing your own interests and meeting others who have the positive aspects without the inevitable damage to you.  What do you think?  Are there barriers to this for you?  I recall you as having physical illness and if so how does this impact you?  Stop me if I'm mistaken.

Him asking about your apartment complex again sounds like a repeat of history, doesn't it?  So he might go to California.  I'm sorry to break it to you anna, but opening this door is not going to lead to anything other than what you've encountered previously.  He's already called you out on your weak boundary, so he feels in control.  Level the playing field.  When do you see your therapist?  Can you hold off doing anything or responding to anything until you've thoroughly talked this through?  I really feel for you that he has reappeared, as I know the personal struggle you had to break that cycle previously.  

We're here for you.  This is within your power to stop from snowballing.

Love and light x

[EdR]

Hi anna,

How strange!  I was just thinking of you the other day and wondering how you're getting on.  I remember your story well, as your compassion and mixed feelings towards this man caused you a lot of strife at the time and I felt your distress come through in your posts.  From what I recall you spent a great deal of time trying not to hurt this man who was trampling over your boundaries and you were the one being hurt in the process.  There was a lot of turmoil for you.  :)o you think opening up yourself to a one off lunch with this man is wise?  What do you see that leading to?  

Yes you are missing certain aspects of his character, but let's not forget the other aspects which caused you a great deal of pain.  Those come with the package and you decided after a lot of uncertainty that this was more than you could tolerate and was bad for your health.  The things you miss can be found elsewhere by reaching out and expanding your own activities / network of social contacts by pursuing your own interests and meeting others who have the positive aspects without the inevitable damage to you.  What do you think?  Are there barriers to this for you?  I recall you as having physical illness and if so how does this impact you?  Stop me if I'm mistaken.

Him asking about your apartment complex again sounds like a repeat of history, doesn't it?  So he might go to California.  I'm sorry to break it to you anna, but opening this door is not going to lead to anything other than what you've encountered previously.  He's already called you out on your weak boundary, so he feels in control.  Level the playing field.  When do you see your therapist?  Can you hold off doing anything or responding to anything until you've thoroughly talked this through?  I really feel for you that he has reappeared, as I know the personal struggle you had to break that cycle previously.  

We're here for you.  This is within your power to stop from snowballing.

Love and light x

Hi Anna and Harley,


I am really sorry btw if my previous posts here sounded a little harsh. But I was thinking the same as Harley considering the wiseness of the lunch (but that's too late now) and that all seems 'within your power to stop.'

I absolutely was not trying to hurt you, but like Harley I remember some aspects of your story, which could hopefully explain the approach I am trying to take here.

I remember being a loong time with this guy, but you guys never really committed to anything. I remember all kinds of NC and NC being broken. I remember you feeling hurt by this guy, but also by your own behaviour towards him!
I remember you could almost slap yourself in the face by continiously sending out these mixed signals and at times you posted that you realised how hurtful this could be to him.
I remember as well that you were quite surprised when he was not mad when you announced the 'final' NC and he actually thanked you.
But starting July last year you still were very anxious and continiously afraid that he could visit your town again any moment.
He did not. This is his first visit, right?

So what I remember is, that this seemed to have been drama reinforced by both sides. You guys did not seem to be able to communicate clear boundaries and you were obviously having a very hard time, because you did seem to feel a lot for this man.

So what I am trying to say here is: there is a choice here. It is yours and yours alone.

You could try and pursue this and see where this leads as you still seem to have feelings for him. Or you could clearly say to him (and to yourself) that you guys are done and communicate which boundaries are necessary for you.

Both choices have their advantages and disadvantages. But these mixed signals are not the way to go. They will hurt the both of you.

[EdR]

And I apologise for saying before that I did not know your backstory. In all honesty I do not know anything about what happened before 'the ending', but I did remember some stuff from the 'end phase' and the NC.

So I am sorry for that

[Lucky Jim]

His response was chilling:  "Cut the drama. I didn't ask you to find me a place to live. And, you broke your own "no contact" rule."

Hey Anna58, To me this is a red flag.     You don't need this kind of person in your life.  Maybe his reply will encourage you to move forward and leave your Ex in the rear-view mirror?

LJ

[anna58]

Harley and EdR
Thank you both for your thoughtful responses. It helps so much to have you recap what you remember of my story. It gives me perspective and also solace that someone else knows me and this story.

You are both right on target.

Sorry for taking so long to respond, though.

His email apology for lashing out at me... .I didn't respond to it.  I feel good about that.  I get triggered when talking about him or if he emails me.  There has only been one more email from him, asking for the Amazon.com receipt for the phone I paid for for him (and he repaid me), because he is trying to get the phone released from Germany (where he was living until a month ago). That sounds very strange. I believe him, but should I?

I get it that I was giving mixed signals in the past and I was torturing myself with that.

I love the advice about finding those good things I got from him in other activities/people. An elegant solution.

There are times where I feel very pulled to see him if he comes to town. (No, he never returned that time a year ago). But today I am feeling grounded and centered enough that it's not upsetting me.

The benefits of being alone this past year are many. I can hear myself think, I recognize myself. I have a stable living situation and bought a couch:). I have reconnected a bit with my sister, or at least gained some respect, I think.  I am considering what the best journey forward is for me.

Yes, I have a disability and so living alone and working part-time from home can be isolating. I want to belong to a larger group. I tried a a couple things, but haven't found my niche yet. I also need to foster more close friendships though I have a nice circle of friends, none of them feels as close as I would like.  I am learning about how to be close, what being close is, and what it is not.  And which part of me is MY life and stands alone, without being a satellite around someone else's life.

Thank you.

[Harley Quinn]

There has only been one more email from him, asking for the Amazon.com receipt for the phone I paid for for him (and he repaid me), because he is trying to get the phone released from Germany (where he was living until a month ago). That sounds very strange. I believe him, but should I?

How long ago was the email?  It does sound strange and may be a ploy to get a response out of you.  At the same time, if you have what he's asking for and it doesn't disclose any private information that you wouldn't want to have shared publicly then you could always send it.  

It is entirely your decision and I'd tend to weigh up your choice based upon whether you feel you are happy to be contacted any more or not.  :)on't send and he could use it as an excuse to hound you.  Send and he may see it as an open door and proof that you're willing to meet his demands.  If you'd rather he not email or otherwise contact you any more, you might be advised to send what he is requesting with a note telling him as much and wishing him well for the future.  The main thing Anna is to think about what you want and feel, not just focus on what he wants and feels.  Reality is he'll probably be miffed no matter what you do.

The benefits of being alone this past year are many. I can hear myself think, I recognize myself. I have a stable living situation and bought a couch:). I have reconnected a bit with my sister, or at least gained some respect, I think.  I am considering what the best journey forward is for me.

Anna, it sounds like you've come far since you were last here!  So pleased to hear of the improvements in your life.  Well done to you.  Sometimes taking stock and acknowledging what has improved is a good way to avoid being sucked back into dysfunction.  It really wasn't good for you last time around. At this point, you seem to prioritise your own progress, which is great.   Protect that whatever you choose to do about the receipt.    

EDIT:  As for connecting with others, I have found there are so many things available to support people and allow for engagement with other people right on my doorstep that I didn't ever know about.  Sometimes we just have to have a good search.  In my case, my counsellor opened a lot of doors for me and I have ended up getting back involved in some passions of mine that I'd long put aside, whilst meeting new people and gaining a bit of confidence.  You'll find what is right for you, and hopefully something that can give you a lot of fulfilment.  Don't give up! 

Love and light x

 

[anna58]

I wrote a lengthy reply last night, but it doesn't look like it posted. I will rewrite, write again soon. I appreciate the insights of EdR and everyone here who took the time to connect with me. It gives me hope and it is so nice to get your perspective on the details over time of my situation. I am stronger now, and thanks to all of you feeling more clear headed for now.

[Harley Quinn]

That's wonderful to hear Anna.  We have a thread somewhere on the Detaching board where you can spill your thoughts and feelings towards your ex if you feel the desire to let go of anything lingering.  It's called 'Feel like writing to your ex?  Say it to us instead'.  Just for future reference really if you find you have any pent up emotion that needs a release.  Do let us know what you decide about the receipt and how things go.

Love and light x

[EdR]

You are very welcome Anna. I am just glad you feel better and you have this wisdom to show for it.

[anna58]

Hi friends,
 I am proud of myself that I was very forthright with my friends, the married couple, who I will call John and Mary, who are friends with both me and my ex-upbd.

I was blunt. They asked what BPD is, and I read them the signs/symptoms from a credible website. We talked about it; they talked about their confusion and concerns about him staying with them (they have his car in their driveway, looked for a rental for him, etc).  This was great. I had asked them to let me know when he was in town (as a caution for me).

All was quiet for weeks.
Last night John called me and said his and wife are going to their usual Friday night bar. Then he said that my ex had arrived 2 days earlier. Did I want to join them? I was caught off guard. Very shocked. I really didn't think he'd come. Of course the Ex was right there by the phone and manipulated this whole thing and got on the phone to talk with me.

I am chastising myself for being so upbeat and cheery when talking with him. It was my natural reaction to hearing the voice of an old friend (not such a good friend, I know). Why do I react that way?  I think it is the fact that he and I were so close, some things were good, and I am so desperately lonely. Maybe it is deeper childhood stuff. Has anyone else had this experience of reacting so positively when you know you should tell him to go away, or just hang up?

I declined to meet them at the bar. That was difficult for me, but I did the right thing.

Then a strange email from the Ex, sent from John's email (why doesn't he email from his own account, he is never without his computer. I think he used John's phone to do this from the bar). Misspellings in the email and asking me if I'd meet him today at the pizza place we used to go to.  I haven't answered.

Yes, I am tempted. That is what upsets me. I told a friend and my therapist all of the above. And what I hear from them is stern. I get it. They don't want me to have any contact. But I feel more likely to cave in if no one around me understands how hard this is and can support me emotionally.

That is a core issue for me--my family can't treat me with kindness or support. Always critical or keeping me on the outside.  Family of origin stuff... .my mother was cold and distant to us all, so there is no compassion among and between my sibs.

I would do almost anything to feel a speck of kindness or joy.  I realize I need to find better outlets for that. I have a disability, work from home to support myself financially, and have lived in this state only a few years, I don't have the sense of belonging that I need.

I am depressed... .due to the above, but also, last week, my sister rudely told me (in front of my brother) to stop taking financial help from my mother. I have felt so guilty and wish my situation was different. I need to stand up to my sister. It is my mother's decision.

The theme here is standing up for myself and getting what I need in a healthy way. And to stop being so overly nice to everyone.

This was a long post. Thank you for reading it. I look forward to hearing about your experiences and how you handled things.

Anna

[Harley Quinn]

Firstly anna,

I'm glad you decided to come back with this update.  You're right to feel proud.  OK so you sounded upbeat - that is just who you are.  You recognise that you do this when caught off guard and maybe a bit uncomfortable with a situation.  He likely knows this about you.  Along with the being nice.  He applied pressure in front of someone else hoping you'd cave in and you didn't!  Well done!   

In regards to your living situation, I can relate.  Apart from spending time with my S4 when he is with me (shared care arrangement with his father) I am pretty reclusive due to my own health issues and can feel cut off from the world.  Of course it is tempting to meet up with someone who is keen to see you, regardless of what your past has held.  What I'd encourage you to do is to think carefully about whether that would be good for you emotionally, and what it might create long term.  This man has put you through a great deal of turmoil in the past and it's highly unlikely that there has been any change on his part.  Just the fact that he's disregarded your request for him to leave you alone is a good indicator of that and the cracks have already shown just over email.  He sounded quite nasty when he said this:

"Cut the drama. I didn't ask you to find me a place to live. And, you broke your own "no contact" rule."

It sounds like he is pushing your boundaries by continually asking you to meet and seeing how much control he can assert as you try to be nice rather than rock the boat.  He knows you well.

I've learned the hard way about protecting myself emotionally, and that includes with family members who had an uncanny way of causing me to feel hurt and defensive in the past.  Slowly but surely with the help of my counsellor I have begun to handle things differently.  People, including your ex, will work to their own ingrained patterns and expectations of set reactions.  Our job is to alter the pattern in our own part of that dance.  I no longer give the negative behaviour the reinforcement that they expect.  As my counsellor calls it, neither a warm fuzzy nor a cold prickly.  Either reaction is reinforcing.  So neutral, fact, short and to the point is the way to go.  No emotion attached.  Amazingly, it works instantly when it comes to my family!

The theme here is standing up for myself and getting what I need in a healthy way. And to stop being so overly nice to everyone.

 

That sounds like an excellent plan.  So what do you need from an old friend/ex partner and does he actually have the capacity to give that to you?  Are you tempted to go for his benefit, or for yours?  Think this through anna.  Your wellbeing now and tomorrow are what matter most.   

Love and light x

[anna58]

Thank you, Harley Quinn. Your prompt rely is truly appreciated.
I feel ok not answering the email about meeting for pizza. I spent some energy worrying about if it was wrong to just ignore it. But it's not.

Especially after that email from the Ex that you quoted about how I broke my own NC boundary. What an ass. Yet, the blessing of that email is that I recall it, and it fortifies me not to break the NC boundary again.

I wish he was out of town.
My sad life is easier without this pulling at my heart and emotions.
I feel quite lost in my life. But since he left over a year ago, I have a nice one-bedroom apartment for me and my dog. I have done some re-vamping of my freelance work and had  quite a bit of work the past 2 months. Those are positive things. To pay attention to getting what I need in my life and cutting out all the external noise.  But it feels sad and lonely.  I am confused, shut in and shut down.

I am glad I did not promise to see him after that nasty email. I have not answered his few emails. I didn't know when he was arriving. And I didn't meet him and friends at that bar. So far so good.

He is supposed to get his car fixed today and head to California (I am in Oregon). The friends he is staying with, John and Mary, put a limit on the time he could stay with them, because they know his pattern of staying on interminably. But I can see what will happen--the car will need an expensive fix, he doesn't have the money, he will stall on going to California. They will be in a bind about throwing him out.

I am glad it isn't me in that situation.  Hooray!

I am going to hang tight, and just not respond. And distract myself with other things... .meeting a friend at the dog park, and watching a movie with a friend tonight.

Thank you from my heart for allowing me to express my authentic self here.

Anna



 

[Harley Quinn]

That's what we're here for, rain or shine.   

The way you're spending your time today sounds really nice.  Taking time out to meet with friends and do fun things is important, and trust in yourself that you will find the ways to fulfil those needs you have, which I can understand completely.  I'm pleased to hear that you've made the right choice for you.  You're doing great!

Love and light x

 

[anna58]

Thank you, Harley Quinn.

[anna58]

Another update.

It is so difficult knowing the Ex uBPD is in town. I wanted to drive down the street where he is staying and see if his car was there. I didn't. This is painful though.

Today, a text from the friends he is staying with. They invited me to a BBQ on Wednesday in their backyard with them and the Ex.   They said the Ex would be headed out of town after that.   The Ex never leaves when he plans. But he might this time.  I know it is good for me to stay out of what could be a mess... .his not leaving when he says he will. Or, just the mess of my having any contact with him. It is soo difficult. Urghhh.

I need to respond to friend's text and politely decline.

I guess all of this brings up too much crap, too many self-doubts, etc. I am keeping my head low and moving through the days.

It helps when I think about how a meeting with him might go... .he will want to catch up on everything. That means he will tell me about his time in europe with the other woman, who he asked to marry him and she declined. He wanted a green card over there, I assume. And I think he does love her. But isn't capable of holding his own in a relationship, or staying in one.  Why would I want to hear about that? It is hurtful.

Then he will want to update me on what is going on with his work project, which is a weird shell of a project to stroke his ego, but doesn't look like it will come to fruition. He has no income.  Could I refrain from saying how off-track that whole thing is? It wouldn't be worth saying anything. So I'd be in a situation where I'd swallow my feelings.

At the same time, I can see myself having a jolly time as we used to. But it would be empty and then he would up and leave. Or, try to cling to me and manipulate his way in to staying with me. Either one of those is painful.

I wish this whole thing would just go away. But more than that, I wish I had something positive or to look forward to in my life.

Thanks for listening, friends.

Anna

[heartandwhole]

Hi anna58,

I've read this whole thread and just want to say that I can understand how difficult this is.    Especially when your friends keep contacting you to get together, which includes seeing your ex. I'd feel very uncomfortable about that if I were in your shoes.

It seems to me that if you go, at best, you might laugh and have a good time for a few hours. Then, in all likelihood, you'll return home, alone, and have time to rehash the present, past, and future.

At worst, you will feel hurt by your ex's actions, and need time to recover.

It may be that not enough time and healing has occurred for you to spend time with your ex. That's the only reason I'm encouraging you to think about whether seeing him is a good idea. If you felt detached, then I'd say go and enjoy the time with your friends (and maybe meet some new people if other people will be there?).

It took me quite a while to get to the point where if I saw pwBPD, I'd feel okay (not likely, as we live in different countries). Everyone has their own timetable, so it just may be a bit too early for you. What do you think?

I totally get the feeling isolated and alone, too. That is something that we all deal with from time to time, even those of us with partners! You are not flawed because you feel that way, so I hope you don't think so.   For me, taking time to listen to my inner needs, and then acting on them, helps me feel like I'm my best friend. It sounds like you have been doing that, too, this last year. Also, a new environment can be exciting, but it takes time to feel like you belong. It takes me ages to make close friends, too, so I hope as HQ said, you won't give up, and will keep taking steps toward joy and peace—whatever that means for you.

heartandwhole

[Harley Quinn]

Hi anna,

I'm just wondering how you're doing and what happened regards the BBQ? 

I, like Heartandwhole can relate to what you were saying about feeling isolated and also wishing there was something positive in life to look forward to.  Having a chronic illness can be overwhelming sometimes due to the limitations this can have on our lives and I totally understand how that can affect you.  Have you had any extra support around this from say a counsellor?  Counselling has helped me enormously and also some CBT from a pain psychologist I've seen a few times.  There is help out there, we often just need to make a noise for people to know that we need it.  As I say to fellow sufferers of my condition, only squeaky wheels get oiled.     

Looking forward to an update from you.

Love and light x

[anna58]

Thank you Heartandwhole and Harley Quinn. It means  a lot to check this board and know you are there, have listened to me, and offer such wonderful advice and support.

So, I turned down the BBQ.  Each decision I make not to seem him, I feel like I did the right thing. But the saga continues.

I am trying to stay NC. That is the goal. But I question it. Someone I was involved with for 6 years and broke up with him from afar. That was tough. I feel seeing him might give me some closure and/or continuity. That continuity piece is an important emotional piece because I have had so many things taken away from me. It is the need for object constancy, that continuity in my life, rather than an abrupt cut off.  I could be wrong. But I know things are different when a person with BPD is involved. That might mean it is best not to see him.

UPDATE: My Ex... .he was supposed to be in town a week, it is now 10 days. Typical of him, so I am not surprised. My friends who he is staying with, the wife is angry and worried that Ex will continue to stay.

I heard from Ex again in an email--he wants to get together this weekend. The friends he is staying with are away for the weekend. I haven't answered the email.  I can't tell whether that is cruel or ok.

Yesterday, I get a call from a friend who was with my Ex.  Friend was worried that Ex was having a heart attack. This happened at a coffee place they always hang out in. I said it could be a psychiatric episode. Ex wanted me to come there.  Also with them was the friend who Ex is staying with. That friend called me later and said my Ex is like a vortex (a whirling mass that sucks everything towards its center).  My friend understood why I didn't want to see Ex. I was ready to go to support my friend who had to deal with ambulance and hospital. But he called and said it was under control. I almost got involved in that mess. I have been there before. Ex can get overwhelmed and anxious and lose ability to speak or move his arms, for example, and he is terrified. It is deep psychiatric stuff.
Again, I was able to avoid getting pulled in. Ex wanted me to be there to help.

It is now Saturday night. On Monday, Ex is supposed to start his drive to California and has a place to stay for a month. He will either set up life there or go back to Canada where he is originally from.

THREE QUESTIONS:

1. Does Ex know why I won't see him? Or does this seem cruel and unusual to him? Does that even matter?
2. Have I given mixed messages? The chronology: originally (a couple months ago) said I'd meet him for lunch if he came to town.  He got angry in email. I didn't respond. He apologized. He sent a couple emails asking things like how to take down his Facebook account or if he'd ordered something from my Amazon account years ago. I answered the latter. The rest of the communications from him (mentioned above) I did not respond. Though there was the surprise talk on the phone he orchestrated.
3. Is staying NC the most important? I have prioritized that. I feel like I've done a good job at it and am proud of myself.
4. Do I want to see him before he goes? I won't want to upset the apple cart and have any reason for him not to get in the car and drive to California. If I see him it would need to be very boundaried (only 1 hour at a coffee place). It might throw back my progress a bit to see him. But could also provide continuity for me. If I do, the boundaries and being my authentic self is important.

This was long. Thank you for reading and offering your view.  Much appreciated.

Anna

[Lucky Jim]

I [d]on't want to upset the apple cart and have any reason for him not to get in the car and drive to California. If I see him it would need to be very boundaried (only 1 hour at a coffee place). It might throw back my progress a bit to see him. But could also provide continuity for me. If I do, the boundaries and being my authentic self is important.

Hey Anna58, I like your emphasis on boundaries and being your authentic self.  Whether you elect to get together is your call.  In my view, your decision turns on what is right for you, rather than what he desires or whether he might be disappointed.  Suggest you avoid any "guilt-trip" to the effect that you "owe" it to him or some similar rationalization.  He's an adult and can handle whatever you decide to do.

LJ

[anna58]

Thank you, Lucky Jim.  It was a rough 10 days with him in town. But he was supposed to leave today.

I wondered if I gave messages I shouldn't have, or was too brutal with the NC. But I am very proud of myself for sticking to this, keeping it a priority to protect myself and move forward.

Anna

[Lucky Jim]

I wondered if I gave messages I shouldn't have, or was too brutal with the NC. But I am very proud of myself for sticking to this, keeping it a priority to protect myself and move forward.

Hey Anna, I suggest you avoid second-guessing yourself and, No, I don't think you were "too brutal with the NC."  You did what was right for you, for which you deserve credit.  I think you are in a good place in terms of moving forward.

LJ

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Anna,

Firstly apologies for not getting back to you on your questions.  I've been off the board for a couple of days.  Did you manage to wrestle with these yourself and if so what did you conclude and how are you feeling right now?

I want to congratulate you on holding your ground.  In your shoes, I'd also be tempted to speak to the friends and ask that they don't put you in that position again.  They may not fully understand the impact upon you and it might be good to explain if that's the case.  It sounds like your ex is very persuasive when he wants to be and it's possible they felt railroaded into going along with his requests to invite you to meet up with them all. 

Will you be notified when he has left?

Love and light x

[anna58]

Harley,
Thanks for your note. Good to hear from you.

Well, the plot thickens.  The Ex has left town. But the friends he was staying with are very worried about him. It was affirming to hear them say they see he is unwell and needs help.  Ex is on the road and fell asleep at the wheel but is ok. I get the sense is he just out there driving and really doesn't have a plan, money, or a place to go. He has a month sublet if he gets there in California.

I feel sad. I miss him. The NC is very hard even if it is the right thing. I hate that the right thing is something that doesn't feel good. Though, doing the right thing has given me good things in a larger sense--more stability, more of myself.

I am lonely and want more connection.

My shrink was married to a man with BPD.  she suggested I contact the woman overseas who my Ex was with (he went back and forth between us), and ask her what happened. Things fell apart there and he likely feels he has nowhere to go and is confused and empty inside. Not my problem, I know. But this guy is older now and has run out of money and his illness is extreme. Things may not end well for him; which scares me.

Shrink thought that if the few who know and care for him can all give him the same message--find an apt in his home state and get some work--that might be his best chance. Overseas, the girl and the work project fell through, it seems.

But really, I should contact her? I was surprised the shrink suggested that. Would that trigger me or heal me? Would it really be useful to get the story from that woman and share it with 1-2 folks her who can help the Ex?  It seems to me that "let go and let God" may be the best thing for me. 

This is a tough one because of course I care about him, he is a human being, and we all need each other to survive. But I don't want to put myself in the positive of helper or savior when it's unlikely I can affect any change. Sometimes I feel like I am the one who knows how to help someone and want to do it--and that is what can get me in trouble with myself.  Know what I mean?

Thanks for listening and feedback is appreciated.

Anna