Back in touch with my ex - advice on how to rebuild things?

[FaithfulInLove]

 Hello!

I wanna reopen this thread/open a new thread as the situation has changed so much again!
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=324999.50

Summary:
My ex fiancé (long distance) broke up with me 10 months ago and the past two months he's been in a new relationship. I had a hard time as we were barely talking to each other as long as he's been with her.

A few days ago he told me now he's single again and that he has moved out, living with his brother now - while I'm not sure if it's really all over between them, because on facebook (where I'm blocked), things look differently.

Since he has moved out he's texting me much more again, we're having light and positive little conversations, talking about how our days are going, how we're doing, about our shared interests and families - this is not one sided - he's keeping our conversations going himself by asking questions and gets back to me even when I haven't been asking anything.

After having real anxiety issues I am feeling much better since we're talking more again. I'm also doing better at work and my household is slowly getting back in shape. I hope l can keep that up! Therapy also helps me.

My main question is what l can do to deepen the level of trust between us?
What I'm trying so far is taking all pressure out of our communication, taking my time to respond and keeping things really light and supportive. Is that a good way to rebuild connection?

Thanks to everyone helping out on here!

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[Enabler]

My main question is what l can do to deepen the level of trust between us?
What I'm trying so far is taking all pressure out of our communication, taking my time to respond and keeping things really light and supportive. Is that a good way to rebuild connection?

Morning morning 

This sounds like positive news for you an a chance at least to rebuild something if that's what you desire. Your Ex caused you a lot of pain, being engaged and then splitting up is inevitably painful, and it feels like you were still working through that pain till just recently. Going back to 'normal' sometimes feels like the best option to put an immediate stop to the anguish we feel about being away from the person we love(d). The question you might want to be asking yourself is "How do I build trust in a way that protects my heart from more pain?"

It's great you are doing well in therapy and this is certainly a good way of ensuring you have the right personal tools to ensure your mind, body and soul are well shielded. Take your time, keep it light, be true to your values and be vigilant to your personal boundaries. Maintain a neutral stance on whether or not there is a potential relationship... .you get to decide that as well as him. DO NOT BRUSH THINGS UNDER THE CARPET, THEY COME BACK TO BITE YOU (from experience).

Enabler

[FaithfulInLove]

Hey Enabler!
It really is positive news for me!
I think what traumatised me the most was seeing the person I loved the most, I opened up to and spent so much time with, just being able to leave and discard me so suddenly. I think unfortunately this is something common in BPD circles and many of the people here have to get through this. It hit me really hard emotionally, I have no words.

Having him back in my life was that one thing I wanted the most and I've achieved that and that makes me extremely happy - while still I'm anxious about losing him - maybe if he can fix things with that other girl again... .

I know I gotta be prepared for anything, even though communication is nothing but positive at the moment.
I can't really tell what's going on there and how much it'll influence what's between us... .from the little information I have SHE is someone really jealous, so if they get closer again, our deeper friendship might be history and he might get back to not talking more than texting an "How are you doing?" every few days... .

[CryWolf]

Are you going to pursue a relationship with your ex? If so, where do you and the guy you were dating stand? How does he feel about him being single now, and how that makes you feel?

How do you plan on handling the situation if your ex wants a r/s with you again?

[FaithfulInLove]

Hey CryWolf!
A new relationship with my ex is what I wanna reach in the ending, yes, but I'm not openly pursuing it at the moment as I don't wanna start putting pressure on him again. I'm happy about having him in my life and think I'd notice it if he was open for more again. That probably is not now. I still don't believe that things with her are all over - won't fully believe it until they change their Facebook pictures.

Last weekend I had a long conversation with the guy I'm going out with.
He knows that I would go for my ex if I had the chance - I am that honest. He hated hearing that my ex probably broke up with his new girl as he was hoping that I could get away from my old relationship more, knowing he is with someone else. That he doesn't feel good of course makes me feel bad as well. We both agree on needing to find a solution in this - but we don't have one as none of us really wants to end this - we got used to each other and kind of attached. Still I told him I don't see a future for us as my feelings for him just aren't enough. I know how things can be and I'll always be looking for the kind of connection I once had.
He said as soon as I start planning to meet my ex in person, even if it's just as friends, he'll be out. I'm glad about him setting this healthy boundary.
It's unlikely for my ex to change his mind about us soon I guess. If we had a second chance, of course I'd stop seeing anyone else immediately. I'd try to be friends with the guy I'm dating as soon as he felt ready for it. Sooner or later we will have to start being nothing more than friends anyway. It would probably be the best to get to that point soon.

[FaithfulInLove]

Good morning BPD Family!

I wanted to update you on the situation:
My ex and me are in daily touch, sometimes he needs some time to reply, sometimes I still get anxious about that as I'm scared to lose touch again with a person who's that important to me, but all in all I am feeling so much better!
I'm not expressing my fears towards him, I want him to talk to me because he's comfortable with it, not because he wants me to feel better!

What I'm trying at the moment is trying to slowly deepen our level of communication in a way that is okay for us both. We do have a topic that kind of connects us as we're in a similar situation with our jobs at the moment.
Yesterday I forwarded an old supportive email to him that I've originally written when we've still been together, risking that this would make him go back into defense mode as I knew it would remind him of the old times together. He stopped replying for an hour, but then got back to me sweetly.

I am patient with him, trying my best to put myself in his shoes. I'm so glad that we are close enough to at least sometimes have deeper conversations.

Thank you all for your support! Any kind of further advice would be appreciated

[pearlsw]

Hi FIL,

I think the key is to keep circling back to yourself and doing all the self work you can. It takes a lot to be in these relationships!

Have you read over and tried any of the communication tools we share on the site?

take care, pearl.

[CryWolf]

He said as soon as I start planning to meet my ex in person, even if it's just as friends, he'll be out. I'm glad about him setting this healthy boundary.
or it.

I don’t think this is healthy at all.

You’re already more concerned about what your ex thinks and feels and how he doesn’t respond in an hour and this guy probably doesn’t want to be alone so he’s okay with being an option. What do you think? I think the longer the longer you wait to cut ties the messier it will get. But that’s my opinion.

And you me me mentioned the rs with your ex is long distance so this guy probably thinks he has a chance since he is there physically

[FaithfulInLove]

Hey Pearl! Yes, I have read the tools and try to use them as much as possible. Our conversations still are too short and light to really bring them in, but I'm trying the best I can. Actually we're talking in a playful way most of the time, it doesn't leave much space for validation, but we're having a fun time, laughing together

Crywolf, you think he's hoping for more than he is telling me he does? We have promised being honest to each other and as he is a grown up man - can't I expect him to take care of his own feelings and step away if things are getting too much?
Probably you're right and we should end this fast... .still it is hard as he matters to me a lot.


I enjoy being back in touch with my ex - still I'm not hoping for much.
Yesterday we barely got to talk. He said he was sorry, he had a hard day - and I told him it was okay and showed him I cared. He didn't feel like opening up though, said he was okay. I accepted that.
The days we talk less scare me a lot. I'm afraid that although our interactions are really positive he'll step away again. I enjoy having him in my life so much, I'd love to just tell him - but of course I won't do anything now that could chase him away.

[FaithfulInLove]

Updates

So what I found out yesterday is that I can keep my job, they are really happy with how I'm working

My ex has been quite silent which worried me the past days - but my good news were a reason for me to reach out to him with more than just a short superficial message but for saying thank you for once, for all the support he gave me within the past two years. A quite emotional message compared to the kind of communication going on between us the past weeks.

I know, that sounds quite "dangerous", but I think it really is something you can do if you don't focus on what you wanna hear in return, if it comes from your heart and you can accept every possible answer. That's what I did.
I've been using the tools to let him know he's understood, while at the same time telling him what's going on in my life and what I was thankful for.
The result was us ending up complimenting each other on how we handle our lives which haven't been easy lately. After a few messages he stopped replying - and it was okay. I see it's the best to pull back when I notice him pulling back. I don't put any pressure on him, he is going through enough himself with all his anxieties.
I don't make a big deal out of it anymore - of course I'd rather talk much more and tell him he means the world, but I consider where he's standing at the moment and don't wanna make our daily talks a challenge for him.

I think the tools make communication so much easier and if you practice them long enough in everyday life, one gets used to using them and it makes you a much better partner or person to be around.

[FaithfulInLove]

Update

We had some good laughs about the world cup last night because my favourite Team has lost. He contacted me to joke around and literally spammed me with jokes.
After all you've read from me over the past months, those are such big steps we're making. When I remember the time he considered me as  a bad person and didn't even respond... .now when he is online, our interactions are really positive and that soothes my anxieties a lot. He is damn important to me and I that hope we can keep that up.

[1stTimer]

Still I told him I don't see a future for us as my feelings for him just aren't enough. I know how things can be and I'll always be looking for the kind of connection I once had.
He said as soon as I start planning to meet my ex in person, even if it's just as friends, he'll be out. I'm glad about him setting this healthy boundary.
It's unlikely for my ex to change his mind about us soon I guess. If we had a second chance, of course I'd stop seeing anyone else immediately. I'd try to be friends with the guy I'm dating as soon as he felt ready for it

I appreciate the situation you are in, and hope my two cents is not out of line but here goes; I'm not sure how 'healthy' a boundary that is for you or him.  Just from recent experience I can tell you that not being ready for a relationship with someone, especially when it is because you know there is no future, is hugely damaging not only to them but ultimately to yourself. Or can be.  If this person is also in the same 'no future we're just having fun' mode it might make sense, but I sense from what you are saying he is holding out hope. Remember how must of us felt being 'discarded' and yet you are telling someone basically that you will discard them the moment your 'new' (ex) asks. He 'agrees' likely because he is holding out hope it won't come to pass, you'll change your mind, you'll fall in love, the ex wont' reach out, etc. Hope can be a horrible crushing thing and regardless of how well it might work out with exBPD you'll have that pain you caused as part of you and who you are. Again, gently, in my humble opinion.

I won't bore you with my whole story but long and short is I smartly declined to sleep with a woman who was crazy about me and wanted a committed relationship precisely because she did and it would have been wrong to do so. Sure I could have told her up front but she'd be sleeping with me hoping something would happen when I knew it would not. Fast-Fwd we got closer, started seeing each other. I did in fact fall for her as I let my guard down but not fast enough and she, regardless of the fact I said I was not 'ready for a relationship' got badly hurt because I always had one foot out the door and she knew it. That didn't stop her from hoping or falling in love each time we were together. I came to this board thinking she was BPD because of her ultimate melt-down on me and had to do a lot of work here to realize I'd wronged her by not having the courage to make one decision or the other; not be with her knowing what she wanted or be fully in the relationship. I hurt her greatly and regret it greatly. We may be meeting soon and we may reconcile or we may not but mostly I don't want to carry having caused someone else that kind of pain because I was inconsiderate of their life, dreams, hopes.

I'm not trying at all to pass judgment here but since most of us came here trying to deal with the pain inflicted by BPD, I think it makes sense to step back and see if we are or might be 'passing along' that pain to others. It might sound healthy for him to say 'the moment you see your ex I am out' but that is not him ending a relationship; that is him holding out hope for and investing in a relationship that he knows may be ripped from him at any moment. In the event you get what you want (your ex decides he wants to reunite) your current beau will likely be crushed.

IMHO if you are committed to someone in your heart who you are working your way towards or trying to, it is not fair to yourself or anyone else to give 'part' of your heart away.

I'd think being fully engaged in the work/communication/possibility of your ex might open that door faster and more fully and honestly then keeping one foot in another door you know you are going to slam anyway.

I say this all with the utmost respect for what you are going through and especially coming from the point of 'knowing what you had' and not wanting less or to settle for less. But then... .don't settle.

My last word on this is this, again from recent experience. I had an amazing love several years back and 'knew' I'd never have anything like that again. And I won't. However thinking like that and comparing to that made me miss a very real thing right in front of my eyes and right in my hands. Which I didn't appreciate or see because it wasn't 'that'. I'm not trying to tell you you should stay with this guy but maybe the fact you are with him says volumes about how you feel and if you don't 'compare' it to your exBPD and appreciate what it is it might in fact be something real with a future. If you know it is not just consider being the one to decide that he should go find his while he can without a wound to carry into it that you can't help but hold in your own heart too.

I just think as a group that has suffered the wounds we have from pwBPD we owe it to the world to be extra careful about other people's love.

[FaithfulInLove]

The thing between my ex and me is that I am still attached more than it's healthy for me.

I really want to work things out, but I'm quite sure that knowing this would pressure him so much that it would destroy the kind of connection we slowly start building again.
He sometimes sends hearts and also sends a lot of support to me. Still this is all in a friendship way and that's why I think it would be a great mistake for me to start hoping too much and fully stop dating other people for him, because - when you're honest - things don't look good for me.

His behaviour can change again so fast, just like he left me over night, only a few months after we got enagaged. Maybe now he's just using me as emotional support until he is meeting someone new, how do I know?
I don't think he's having any bad intentions, but I think this is something that could happen as he just doesn't know what he wants and struggles with trusting me so much.
As I said, his Facebook tells me things aren't really over with him and that girl, maybe in the end he suddenly decides to marry her, while I'm still sitting here, believing it's all over with them, believing in us... .

I think it would be good for me, meeting someone else, someone I fall for and that's what I've been hoping could happen with the man I'm seeing at the moment. But I see what we have is not enough for me, and so, 1stTimer, you are right, I'll definitely communicate that again clearly and end this situation - which must be horrible for him - fast as possible, so that I can focus on my ex - and on meeting someone else I feel more connected to in case things don't work out the way I wish.



Update on how things are going:

My ex and me are still in positive daily touch, mostly joking around but also he's really opening up about how he is struggling at work and I think it's beautiful how he starts trusting me with his worries again.
He is there for me for support, but often still takes hours to answer my messages which makes me see I'm still not a priority in his life. I think he's unsure about how much he still wants me in his life and I'll just give him time to see and find out.

If communication stayed that good for the next weeks, I'd try and ask him if we could meet up again and spend time together within the next months, which always is a bit difficult as he is struggling with money and we live so far away from each other and would need to travel which of course requires money. Not sure if right now I mean enough to him.

[FaithfulInLove]

After 2 weeks, I wanna share a small update on how things are going


The past two weeks I stayed in daily touch with my ex through text messages.

I feel how he slowly starts trusting me more, sharing more with me about what's happening in his life. He is reaching out to me as much as I am reaching out to him (which means he always answers me in his time while I'm holding back on texting too much as I feel like talking to him 24/7).
My wish of being in touch with him more and of getting back together is still strong and I hope that we can make it happen over time. I enjoy every interaction with him, we are laughing a lot together, also talking about dreams, worries and achievements in our lives.

I am not sure what's going on with the girl he has been dating - (after telling me he threw that "horrible person out of his life"- he told me they are just friends now who still spend time together sometimes.
Maybe this is the truth, maybe he just doesn't want to hurt me with the news that they are actually giving their relationship another try. If they are together and he does't tell me, he will have his reasons for that - also it wouldn't change anything about the connection we both have right now, so I don't ask.

I'm a bit hesitant about asking him for phone or skype calls or even for a meet up in the future as I am not sure how he would perceive it. I am afraid it could bring his walls back up if he doesn't feel ready yet.
I'd rather give him a little more time to get used to having me back in his life and learn to trust me more without putting any pressure behind it. He seems to enjoy talking to me at the moment - doesn't mean he is also ready to let me closer already after only 2 months back in touch.


I broke things off with the other guy I've been seeing so that he doesn't get hurt any further - or better said we both decided it was better to stop seeing each other for now, but want to meet soon again as friends.
It is hard for me to be completely alone with my worries now, at the same time it gives me the chance to fully concentrate on what's going on between me and my ex, focus on the tools and on making the right moves to bring him back into my life more.
Still it's a scary situation that now he is the only person in my life who I'm talking to on a daily base. I know how fast he can be gone again.


I'd be happy about your thoughts. Do you think he might pull back if I ask for too much too soon? Maybe any advice on the best way to rebuild our connection?

[Zemmma]

This all makes me nervous for you, but I understand that feeling of being suddenly "all-better" now that he is back in your life. Suddenly you are able to do your work, sort out your house, and you feel that inner peace.

For now, its enough for you just to be in contact, even though you aren't seeing him.

How many times I have been there! I guess since you are asking the one thing I would caution against is involvement that is mostly just texting. You are yourself up for dependency... you say he is the only person you are communicating with on a daily basis now that you let the other man go. I would try to be kind on there but a little scarce. If he wants more he should want to really see you. A full on text relationship is not real.

I think it will be important right now for you to reach out to friends or family and keep your social network strong. You want to be okay if he does pull away. You won't be, but you will need people. Keep building your life and meeting people. As though you are in break up mode, or single. Be honest with yourself about what this is. He is not giving you a r/s right now.

I remember that elation of being back in contact with the one I love, even in that limited way after being so harshly rejected. It was an immediate cure for the pain. I also remember that I suddenly felt like I was myself again. Why did I need this person in this way for me to feel okay? Because without him I was in grief and sadness. But he's not really there. You aren't seeing him in person.

I remember feeling as though I'd rather have him in any capacity than out of my life. That when he was gone it was as much pain as I would feel if someone died. There one day and completely gone the next. Then months of silence.

Is friendship really enough for you? You aren't asking him about the girlfriend because you have convinced yourself that what you don't know can't hurt you. It can hurt you.

You are being so careful. You are so worried that something you do or say may push him away. You are walking on eggshells. You are strategizing when what you really want to do is reach out to him and talk to him more.

I'm not giving advice about how to proceed. I have just been there and even hearing you talk like this makes me uneasy. He may get back with you, and for now you feel okay. You have to go through it your way. Eventually for me it became enough when I got hurt again and again. Because when I was back in his graces I managed to forget the pain I felt when I was abandoned. When I was outside of the r/s for a while I felt I could be strong and be in contact with him again. But the pain of being discarded and going through that cycle is so horrible. It was worth risking that again and again, until it was clear he would never be happy to stay. He just kept doing it repeatedly until I learned there would be no other way. I know now that it won't work with him and have to leave unless I want this to repeat for the rest of my life. Doesn't sound like you are there, and maybe there is a chance that things will work out for you.

I wish you the very best in this...

[CryWolf]

Very well put Zemmma

[1stTimer]

Hi Faithtful, it all sounds tentatively good and like you are taking the right steps. The break-up with your current must have been hard for both of you, especially since in a way it now makes your connection with your ex even more important.

I'd personally caution against resurrecting as friends with him anytime soon as trying to juggle befriending your ex and hoping to move it slowly to something more while trying to transition to friends with your new ex (who will likely be trying to move it slowly back to where it was as well) sounds like a level of complication you might not need right now.

I agree being careful makes sense and going slow. As you may know I had some good initial albeit much more limited reconnection with my possibly expwBPD and I over-reacted a bit to her pull-back after her initial happiness to see me and her reaching out to have us meet. I did as they call it a 'Hail Mary' gesture with a really nice and heartfelt letter and flowers (posted on this board, well not the flowers) which she responded to well but has since gone AWOL. She might be processing as it was pretty deep and also words/thoughts she likely really needed to her, yet I sort of feel that if I'd just let her initial reaction to hearing from me simply gestate she'd have reached back out sooner with far less Big Implications behind us meeting. So it is good you have resisted the urge, I think treating 'them' like skittish animals where you make yourself safe and allow them to approach is a good one.

In terms of what other people say about the 'cycle' you may expose yourself to I can't speak to that having never experienced that, yet one of my own goals here was to have some tools to be able to protect myself in both any initial meeting and subsequent growing relationship. I'd have to defer here to Shawnlam whose advise on that you may want to read (I can point you to my thread) which is basically in making himself as strong/centered as possible and removing as much of the want/need/expectations and letting his ex handle her own stuff.

[FaithfulInLove]

Zemmma, thank you for feeling with me! Yes, I am really nervous because of all this, too.
The thing, why right now I am okay to just be in texting-contact, is that this has never been more than a long distance relationship - with great plans for our future.
 
What I miss is being in touch in every free minute, just as it was. But that things can't be this way as long as we are not together is absolutely clear to me. In everything I hope and wish for, I am still being realistic.
He always wanted to see me when we've been a couple, I can't tell if right now he'd still like to hang out as we are nothing more than friends. He has always been overly invested - now I guess he is scared to get my hopes up again in any way as he has seen how much he has hurt me the last time with how unsure he was and letting me wait until he found someone new.

To describe him: his borderline is quiet and he as a person actually always just wants everyone's best.
He still can get really angry and rage. He is aware of how much he can hurt the people around him and tries to avoid that most of the time - unless he thinks someone deserves it. He thought I deserve to be ignored/punished because I have hurt him - but now that I'm not discarted anymore, he does not want me any harm and probably feels quite guilty.

I guess he still has these trust issues towards me. Mental illness is irrational, those are feelings and one can't help it.
Trust is a feeling, nothing he can decide, right?
Since the day he broke up with me, he never said that he doesn't love me anymore. It's only a few months ago when he said he still had feelings for me. Still all the time he refused to take me back. I see how confused he is. He is afraid that I could hurt him again if he let me that close once again and I think he tries to avoid hurting me.
He has seen what he has put me through by not knowing what he wants.
So we're not even talking about a relationship right now. I hope that during this time of pure friendship he can slowly leave these trust issues behind and find out what he wants. I don't wanna be the one putting pressure on him for something he can't help. I did that for half a year. I have been horrible to him, putting all my pain on top of his, not respecting that he just isn't ready to trust me.
I think that patience is needed here if I am sure that he is the one I wanna be with - and I think you can tell that I am sure.

I want to see him, but I want him to be sure that seeing me is safe. That he knows I won't push him again for more than he can give at the moment. I think only if I bring this to the table, he will have the chance to trust again and open up at all. This is nothing I can just say to him in words, this is something I must let him feel.

You are definitely right, friends and family would be important for me. I should try and find a way to get back in touch with them more. It is mostly my fault that we're not talking so much. Because it's difficult to be around other people when you're in a depressed state. I often feel like I'm better off alone, without having to fake smile around them. They don't understand why I didn't go for the other guy who has so much more to offer.

I don't think my ex will pull away if I keep things that light and positive. Still I'm afraid I'll barely hear from him as soon as a new girl is in his life. Or that old one.

I don't know the circles in the way you describe them and I can only imagine how hard this must be... .
My situation is killing me already. He has never pulled away without any reason. Never for months, only for days apart from that one time.

Yes, it hurts me, not knowing what's going on with that girl. I think I'll just consider them still being together until Facebook tells me something else. If he doesn't feel ready to talk to me about this, I don't think I should come along, being bitchy for him lying to me. If they really are in a relationship I'm sure his intention by not telling me is not hurting me with that plot twist. Maybe he also isn't sure how long this will take this time.
He moved out so things probably aren't going well. It's not my business as long as we are nothing more than friends.

Yes, it is a lot of walking on eggshells at the moment - at the same time it is a lot of working on myself and trying to be more acceptant and less needy. I think that also is something you need in a relationship with someone with BPD.
Just because he once gave me a lot, I can not expect that from him every day, especially when we are not together.
He has broken up with me and I have decided to stay and see if we can work this out in the long run. That still means respecting what he is ready to give right now.

Thank you for your nice wishes!


Thank you, CryWolf, for still following my story and being with me in all this!


Thank you a lot, 1stTimer, for supporting me in what I'm doing.
Yes, it has been hard to step away from that other guy because he gave me security when I needed it the most, but honestly, it's not fair on him.
I don't think he will try to move it back to something serious. I made it clear that I don't see us getting anywhere further and he understood, is taking big steps away from me and will probably start seeing other women soon. He is older than me, wants his own family, I don't think after wasting so much time with me he'd be ready to wait any longer. He also said it like this. He knows I am far away from ready for something serious like this, so I think a friendship is doable and might hurt me more than him when I'll be replaced.

I'll definitely go and reread your threads, 1stTimer! I think I am doing well at treating him like a "skittish animal" but gotta work on keeping myself safe. As he is so far away and doesn't see my reaction I must admit on days when he is not that talkative, I sometimes still lose my cool and start crying.
I try to work on this. Become more acceptant as I said and stop being that outcome-orientated. I should just enjoy our friendship. We have come so far and I love him as a person!

[1stTimer]

I'll definitely go and reread your threads, 1stTimer!

There are quite a lot :| and they are all pretty long and tanential. If you want a summary that is relevant to yourself I'm happy to pull it.  The 'Hail Mary' letter you can find here

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326317.msg12978248#msg12978248

I think I am doing well at treating him like a "skittish animal" but gotta work on keeping myself safe.

That has been my goal as well. I'm not sure how well I've done as I find myself, amazingly almost 3 months out bereft. I am here at a beach island with friends and family and feel like I'm missing... .my wife... .and we only texted each other for 18 months, 'casually' dated for 4, messed around a handful of times and made love one day and were "officially" bf/gf for 36 hours. So I struggle(d) with how to keep safe in any communication/reconnection too and as much as we try to say we are not outcome oriented well... .of course we are. The trick I think is to not let that into our communication since among other things we stop listening to them.

I try to work on this. Become more acceptant as I said and stop being that outcome-orientated. I should just enjoy our friendship. We have come so far and I love him as a person!

That is tremendously hard to do I know. I think it depends on how/where you left things. If I were not so 'outcome oriented' I might not have sent my letter and not be so scared of meeting. In my 'defense' I'll say that the timing of the discard was literally the day after I'd finally committed to being with her and have a future with her.  After months of pressure from her and an insane week down what felt like a slaughterhouse chute where she was not going to let that 'Official Commitment' NOT happen even when I tried to back out 2-3 times when her behavior seemed... .conflicted... .and she assured me she was just a) terrified (hasn't had a committed relationship in ten years, short lived, her only one) and b) not sure of my sincerity and needed to be absolutely sure. After our first night together and the massive future bomb I bought into fully after protecting myself from that with her for months and that with anyone for a decade. So I have a lot of 'outcome orientation' on our reconnecting and a lot of hurt/confusion/fear/anger about/if she is seeing anyone (which I think is a high high probabliity) now given what happened. For me it ends up feeling like being set up to give every part of myself to someone who knew how hard it was for me to do so THEN having them discard me and move on to someone else. Hard to remove the outcome orientation then.

I really do admire how you are handling this. I'll never know but I feel if I had been as accepting vs fearful of where she was or might have been, we might be in a great spot now. I felt her joy in her text when I reached out and in the fact she invited me out to 'our place'. My Hail Mary was based on fear after she pulled back that she was now considering whether to make a move back and I wanted to make sure she had all the informaton about where I was to do so. Yet I might have turned a nice careful waltz back to me/us into a hugely emotionally laden choice for her. I think as beautiful as:

"If you ever care to have that man back in your life he is ready and would be happy beyond words to be in your life again and would cherish your choice.  We don’t need to meet with a kiss and a vow, we could start with a walk in the park or tea-for-two and see what we have when we both bring open hearts. Whenever you are ready to find out I will be here for you. Until then and forever if not you remain in my thoughts and smiles as I hope I am in yours."

is, it is pretty either/or. So now she has this amazing revelation (if you read the letter) about how I did feel which is how she always WANTED me to feel except reaching out now doesn't really allow for a 'slow dance' (even though I made it clear about the walk in the park).

Anyway didn't mean to hijack you here, but there seem to be similarities and I'd love to see you to continue to handle this one as you have been (and as I said perhaps chat with or check out Shamlam). I can't say I made a mistake as much as a choice and in my case I think her being clear on how I really felt and how I could really be in a relationship was more important then not putting any outcomes/expectations on it.

But goddamn it I miss her and it is just blowing my mind. I'll keep that on the board for now and best of luck and keep us upated.

[FaithfulInLove]

Thank you so much, 1stTimer, for sharing your story and for supporting me!

Big parts of your story remind me of what I've been going through after the break up.
He has been asking me to give my everything to the relationship, always, while I tried to keep things slow.
When I was ready to give him my all, he backed away.
I'm someone who needs a lot of time to open up, too. I feel like by now I could give him all he ever wanted, that I've been too slow with that in the first place... .and now he doesn't want it anymore.
That's hard to get over!

I hope we'll get a second chance and I also hope that your story will have a happy-ending!
That letter is beautiful! I remember reading it a few weeks ago, I'm reading much more on here than I reply to, because I feel like I know so little compared to all the experienced BPD-partners on here! But still, what I could make work is reestablishing a good connection to him.

What scares me at the moment - maybe you've read it in the other thread I have opened - after some conversation about his anxiety yesterday morning, he told me he needed a break and backed off from social media since then.
I hope to hear from him soon and I'm happy that at least he told me he "will talk soon".

It's the first time since forever that I haven't heard from him for a full day.

[1stTimer]

Thank you so much, 1stTimer, for sharing your story and for supporting me!

Right back at you Faithful!

Big parts of your story remind me of what I've been going through after the break up.
He has been asking me to give my everything to the relationship, always, while I tried to keep things slow.

I don't think I'd gotten that part of your story before, I somehow thought it was the other way around. So you get that part totally. It creates a cycle of mistrust I think as 'we' start to feel not validated/valued because they want what they want regardless of what we want and we start to pull the opposite direction. Meanwhile they don't get why we are not only not moving forward but putting up more walls and it likely exacerbates their insecurities in the first place. So they push harder and it gets worse. When all they had to do was just let us come to them.

When I was ready to give him my all, he backed away.

It is still hard to ever know if it is timing of if we had given our all when they wanted before they'd have just "run" then. I know in my case one of my pain-issues is that she backed away not when I was "ready" but the moment after she'd almost forcibly gotten 'it all'. So I can say that either a) she'd have run no matter when she go it or b) more insidious all she wanted was the commitment and didn't really care about the rest.

I'm someone who needs a lot of time to open up, too. I feel like by now I could give him all he ever wanted, that I've been too slow with that in the first place... .and now he doesn't want it anymore.
That's hard to get over!

Man I am with you here My entire letter to her is about just that. Clearly there was much more going on then just my reticence but I decided in my case to simply forget all my pain/questions/confusion and just give her that pure and clean. Because even though if we had reconnected (don't see it happening) there would be a LOT on her end to clarify (force commitment, break off next day and discard me like a tissue) but I figured the best first step was for me to own what i did that might have contributed anything to that purely and w/o 'Sorry I did A it is just that you did B' which is never really an apology just an accusation.

But yes if in the purest sense what did happen is I witheld to long and hurt her and even though I know it and am ready to not withhold she held on yeah man that hurts, I get you.

I hope we'll get a second chance and I also hope that your story will have a happy-ending!
That letter is beautiful!

I feel from reading your story yours is much more likely. Overall he seems far healthier and more self-aware (despite her weekly $500 an hour psychotherapy). I am still on the fence as to her motivations and I've been treating it as if she is 'healthy'; a scared girl who got she wanted and ran in part because she didn't trust my feelings for her.

One thing I'm learning is that as good as it is to have this board for support, it can be a double-edged sword. By which I mean we are quick to explain away behavior because of our 'knowlege' of BPD. "She's just processing", "his abandonment/evenolopment issues are being triggered" etc. and in many cases I think we expose ourselves to hurt we would not otherwise. I mention this because you say you are trying to protect yourself too. In some ways I wish I had never reached out or sent that letter and possibly gave just a very not good woman fodder for further abuse or ridicule or at least mitigated the dignity with which I originally exited the situation.

When I speak to friends/family off the board there is no such equivocation/rationalization about her behavior; she is crazy, mean, damaged, likely either planned this or had done it many times before. No one thinks she got 'scared' after getting what she wanted, no one thinks she is pining for me and processing what I've said or what happened. No one thinks she is good for me or that I should make any movement and pretty universally are 'upset' with me for reaching out and sending a letter like THAT to a woman like THAT.

Funny enough my female/friends family all react to her recent texts (not the nice happy reach out ones) where she says 'lots happening. can't make firm plans' and the last one which ended with ':)o you mind if I reach out to see if you are available an hour or so before I think it may work for me" (she lives 10 blocks from me, flex hours job, no kids, few friends, no local family) the same way; skeeved out. None think it is a disrespectful blow-off they all say some versoin of 'something messed up is happening in her life'. My sister said it sounds like she is on some medication cycle and needs to make sure she is in the right place, my friend thinks it sounds like her time is being controlled.
My brother in law thinks the entire last text is creepy and sounds like a person overwhelmed with emotion trying to sound in control and say things they think a 'normal' person would say. Lastly my best friend keeps saying the most spot-on summary; if she wanted to be with you she'd be with you right now. She has the green light and has had to for months. She is where she wants to be and with who she wants to be and it is not you". Harsh words but at the end of the day all the 'insights' here don't change that reality. Process schmossess: she had me exactly what she wanted from me. almost 3 months ago and tore it down and never looked back. I agreed to her invite to go out a month ago and once I did she tored it down and never looked back. She got my letter (the 'thoughtful note' as she called it) going on 3 weeks soon and despite promising to never reach out and never looked back. A beautiful letter promising everything to a woman who professed wanting me to feel that more than anything in the world and she has sat on it for 3 weeks. Only here can we try to analyze that; in 'the real world' that seems to be lack of interest.

So my only point is it makes sense to get some outside/real world feedback if you are looking to have viewpoints that might help you protect yourself as well.

What scares me at the moment - maybe you've read it in the other thread I have opened - after some conversation about his anxiety yesterday morning, he told me he needed a break and backed off from social media since then.
I hope to hear from him soon and I'm happy that at least he told me he "will talk soon"

.
I did not see that yet again given he seems far healthier than her i.e. more self-aware it seems he indeed may be saying I need time to process vs lashing out or devaluing or even knowing he'd feel pushed away. I'm going to bet you'll hear from him soon. You said you'd give him the time and space to process his feelings/interaction this might be a really critical juncture for you/him.

It's the first time since forever that I haven't heard from him for a full day.

Man I know that one too. Every day for months, then all of a sudeen BAM not an email, text, call as if she (or more accurately) I never existed. I see far more hope in your situation than mine, as I see you two in a careful dance, once you seem to be making all the right steps for.

In my case as much as I sometimes let myself believe she is just procesing her way back to me and my letter was written to the right not the wrong woman I'm pretty much in the camp now I ran into a very messed up little girl who has done this many many times before to whom I was nothing special too. She called my beautiful letters to her 'notes' twice now and though I didn't see her as a woman who'd ever gotten anythink like that in her life (I know many women having grown up with all sisters and most have never) it seems to me very possible this is a pattern; love-bomb, discard, then deal with the inevitable flowers/cards and devalue those with a 'thanks for the note' and give nothing back. The very fact I go back and forth on this tells me this is a toxic situation I should have exited months ago.

Yours does not seem toxic, it seems to me to have some elements of tragic (him) but he sounds like he has a very caring empathetic woman in his corner and he may just be allowing that in. Is he clear now that you are ready to give him all he wanted and if so how do you balance that with not pushing him?

[FaithfulInLove]

Sorry, extra long post... .

Me taking things slow while he wanted everything at once was a big part of my story before he broke up.
I haven't really been ready for such a deep connection - we wanted to marry this year! - and he broke up with me because I refused spending our anniversary the way he wanted to. Because I had other plans/wanted him to compromise on them/put a hobby first which made us fight since day one, because HE wanted to be first and I haven't been ready!
It sounds like such a little thing, but it has hurt him so deeply.

I think that he knows that I would be ready to give him more now, because that's what I kept saying the months after the break up. I was crying so much everyday and told him I was sorry. For months. He kept saying he can't trust me, I was in such deep depression and devastated because he didn't see how much he meant. I sent letters and flowers and wanted to prove what he means. But his trust was broken - and I'm not sure if this is healable or if he wants to trust again at all.

I think we could have worked things out if my apology came a bit faster, if I was ready to put him on top of my world faster and if we lived a bit closer together and could have seen each other to talk things out straight after the break up, before he met someone else.
I am not sure though, if he is sure that I still want him back. I stopped talking about it to take the pressure off him and make this friendship work. I remember one day I told him I'm out, it's over forever when he starts dating other people. Maybe he still remembers this and thinks I meant it... .I don't think asking him now would be a clever thing to do.


Yes, I agree, they push a lot because they want to get what they want - but same with us, isn't it?
When they change their mind about something they once wanted so bad, don't we become needy and anxious, too, and start pushing for things that they are not ready for anymore? He wanted to be with me so bad while I always took my time to commit.
Now I think we mustn't handle the situation with the same kind of pressure, rather be patient enough to let them come to us again.
After the break up I pushed him to make this relationship work again instead of being patient and I regret it so much now because I see it has pushed him so far away... . 

Yes, I wonder the same thing. Would he really move to my country and live with me happily ever after if I didn't **** up our anniversary - or would he get scared as soon as he had all the commitment he wanted from me? Would he find another reason to break this close deep scary thing down? I am not sure how much of a deep connection he can really bear or if me keeping things slow has helped him to really open up and wanting it all... .

You keep saying that my happy ending is more likely - I must say I am far away from giving up, but I see it as really unlikely! Because we are long distance. Because he might have someone else now. Someone he can see on a daily base, right in the city where he lives - and if this doesn't work out, maybe he'll try it with the next girl.

I never stopped having these deep feelings for him, but after almost a year, I can't just assume that he still loves me, can I?
Maybe a few months ago he has told me that he still has feelings for me - but maybe he just did it so I can stop crying, because I was so hurt that he could stop loving me so easily. Because I have set him under pressure maybe? Maybe he actually can throw this love away easily like the other pwBPD from the stories I read on here - and he still tells me what I wanna hear because he doesn't want to see me hurt. Maybe this really is just a friendship for him.

I don't really think that he considers getting back together. I think he'd run far away if I told him that I am thinking about him in a romantic way still. I don't think my situation is any better than yours actually.
If I can convince him to meet up again, maybe it would help him find his feelings for me again - but before getting back together he would have to be able to trust me again. Why should he be able to do this so suddenly?

I am not sure if he'll ever be able to lead healthy long-term relationships cause he knows about his issues but refuses therapy. He had issues with me - who is the most peaceful woman on earth  - and he had(or is having) issues with that other girl that might be a sweet person as well. Don't know her. He had issues with his family. With his mum, his brother, his sister... .
Maybe your girl's health will improve if she keeps going to therapy? I don't see this getting better with him until he gets help.

I don't really like talking about him to family/friends because they see him as a "man" - "who always chooses the easiest goal and it's not me as I'm just too far away"... that's not helpful. They think I am crazy for still chasing this relationship that is over for so long. Hearing that doesn't make my feelings go away... .

It makes me worry so much not to hear from him. I hope he is taking care of himself.
I am scared he just decided all of a sudden that our friendship is not good for him?
I know I am overthinking way too much, but if you think about it: if he still wants to make things work with that other girl, and I don't know if he does, I know she has always been against us being in touch.
I am scared he thinks it all over again. It would make my world break down pretty much if he decided to fully walk away again.
Also, he knows I am in touch with his mum. He knows she could tell me what's going on in his life, she could tell me about his girlfriend (if he has one) even when he is not ready for it/lied to me. He knows how much I can get hurt and I can overreact (which of course I wouldn't as I am prepared!) Maybe he wants to push me away before I can find out and eventually leave him?
That all seems pretty scary if I put myself in his shoes... .!

I think that the situation is not toxic for him, but still really toxic for me, as I am waiting around while he keeps living his life.
I am just thinking and hoping a lot - for almost a year now.
I am 24 years old, I should go out, meet new people. Instead, this situation brought me in therapy myself. I am trying to fight myself out of depression and through my anxieteies. I'm isolating myself pretty much, fighting more for him to come back than enjoying my own life.

I am so thankful for the help and thoughts I'm getting on here.   I don't know whom else I should talk to!
Next weeks will be extra hard as my therapist is on vactaion!

[1stTimer]

... .ending our anniversary the way he wanted to. Because I had other plans/wanted him to compromise on them/put a hobby first which made us fight since day one, because HE wanted to be first and I haven't been ready!
It sounds like such a little thing, but it has hurt him so deeply.

I don't see where you did anything that bad to 'hurt him so deeply' and it makes me think again there is always 'a reason' that would set them/this off. "My" girl I know was hurt that I did not call her one am to check in on her flu and later on told me she was hurt I did not come by and take care of her (at the same time according to her she was also not pursuing me anymore go figure). However the part she overlooked was that when I found out she was sick that night at MIDNIGHT I offered to first come by with food, medicine, send an uber for her and finally left a voice-mail to take her to the emergency room (midnight on a sunday, a girl with highly contagious super-flu). Point being if someone wants to find a way to tell themselves you let them down or don't love them, they always will. Won't matter if you fall on your sword or not. I am sure you did other things to accommodate him.

People who put up hurdles for you want you to trip not succeed. My mother was an expert at this in some things; for instance she would say 'do you think you can give me another $100 a month' and I would say "hey I'll give you another $200 a month" (clearing the hurdle with room to spare and she'd reply "make it $250" basically raising the bar under my feet and I'd trip in mid-air.

Look I allowed myself to buy into the whole 'didn't appreciate' as you saw in the letter. Was that really our issue? Hers? As mentioned one reason I did not 'appreciate' is she would push so hard that appreciation would have made things worse not better.

if he wants to trust again at all.

Key here. "If he wants". You didn't cheat on him. You just (as far as I can tell) didn't prioritize his life and needs as much as he wanted as fast as he did. Just like my girl could say "well he did offer to take me to the emergency room no one else in the world did" or "he did put a lot of time and effort unasked to help get me a $50000 raise" but they don't work like that. They cannot trust so that is where they focus.

There is an old joke my father used to tell me; turtle family goes on picnic takes forever to get there and set up of course. They realize they forgot mustard and ask turtle junion to go back and get it. He says no you will start without me! They promise not to. He leaves and being a turtle takes forever. Finally after 3 months they are startving and say 'let's just take one bite' and the moment they do turtle junior jumps out from behind a bush he was hiding this whole time and says "See! I knew you'd start without me!"

I think we could have worked things out if my apology came a bit faster, if I was ready to put him on top of my world faster and if we lived a bit closer together and could have seen each other to talk things out straight after the break up, before he met someone else.

Maybe. Or maybe not matter what you did there would always be something you didn't do enough.

Yes, I agree, they push a lot because they want to get what they want - but same with us, isn't it?
When they change their mind about something they once wanted so bad, don't we become needy and anxious, too, and start pushing for things that they are not ready for anymore? He wanted to be with me so bad while I always took my time to commit.
Now I think we mustn't handle the situation with the same kind of pressure, rather be patient enough to let them come to us again.
After the break up I pushed him to make this relationship work again instead of being patient and I regret it so much now because I see it has pushed him so far away... . 

I think this is a good point only in having the perspective to remember what it felt like to be pushed for more than we were ready and not being understood/respected. However there is a big difference between them doing that to start and causing the dynamic which caused the break and us coming back and wanting to resurrect.

Note too: there is a big difference for instance in my wanting to not talk about my not moving to California yet and wanting to take gettng closer slowly and her not being in contact for 2 1/2 months or 2 1/2 weeks now on my letter. That is not 'pressure' or 'patience' that is very likely IMHO my waiting/hoping while she is off living her life. It's easy to buy into the Polly Anna 'they are processing, circling back' when they are not around vs they are not even thinking of us. NOT trying to rain on you here but you do need to be realistic as my friend Tony points out to me to get my head straight when I get off this board; 'she could be with you this very moment if she wanted and she is not. she is where she wants to be doing what she wants with whom she wants'. That is reality. And very different from the one we gave them which was what they wanted just not as much and as deep as they wanted.

I will tell you I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is revenge. The time between the first date she pressured me into going on (subsequent to which I said I do not want a relationship right now despite the clear offers of crazy sex on the board) and the time we started hanging out was 14 MONTHS.  This despite repeated 'you should ask me out' and 'buy me drinks Friday?' and 'are you seeing anyone?' and 'when you leave town can I go introduce myself to your mother?". In other words before we even go to the relationship with me keeping her at arms length, she spend over a year having put herself on the line wanting a committed relationship and my utterl refusing anything. Who knows what that did, but I'll tell you part of what is happning now must be music to her ears; let HIM wait for ME for a year. But I won't because I never liked her like she liked me. Even now I'm unclear why I'm still so connected, my only insight is that I hadn't had a relationship for 10+ years (my whole back story) and suddenly had one I let my guard down for and it was ripped away.

Yes, I wonder the same thing. Would he really move to my country and live with me happily ever after if I didn't **** up our anniversary - or would he get scared as soon as he had all the commitment he wanted from me? Would he find another reason to break this close deep scary thing down? I am not sure how much of a deep connection he can really bear or if me keeping things slow has helped him to really open up and wanting it all... .

That is a very important question to answer but I'd likely refer you to Shamlam again. I'm imagining (Shamlam if reading feel free to chime in!) that he'd say all you can do is come to the relationship centered without expectations and let him deal with his own issues on his own and be able to be centered/ok with it whatever he does.

I never stopped having these deep feelings for him, but after almost a year, I can't just assume that he still loves me, can I?
Maybe a few months ago he has told me that he still has feelings for me - but maybe he just did it so I can stop crying, because I was so hurt that he could stop loving me so easily. Because I have set him under pressure maybe? Maybe he actually can throw this love away easily like the other pwBPD from the stories I read on here - and he still tells me what I wanna hear because he doesn't want to see me hurt. Maybe this really is just a friendship for him.

If I can convince him to meet up again, maybe it would help him find his feelings for me again - but before getting back together he would have to be able to trust me again. Why should he be able to do this so suddenly?

You have nothing to prove to him IMHO, HE needs to have done some work on why this situation made him not trust you and decide if he does feel trustful of you now. Meeting is always good, sometimes you run into the other person and you are like 'Oh. Really? This is who I've pined over for 1000 hours?" and sometimes it is amazing immediatly. You can text and talk and email all you want until you are in his presence it is sort of a moot point.

Maybe your girl's health will improve if she keeps going to therapy? I don't see this getting better with him until he gets help.

Well Bingo on that Do what you can to make yourself whole and healthy and strong and NOT NEEDING HIM. Let him take responsibility for himself. I do not get the feeling my girls' health will improve, she already knew it was a mess with her endless 'there are things you need to know about me' and her being treated for blackout drinking and God knows what else.
I don't really like talking about him to family/friends because they see him as a "man" - "who always chooses the easiest goal and it's not me as I'm just too far away"... that's not helpful. They think I am crazy for still chasing this relationship that is over for so long. Hearing that doesn't make my feelings go away... .

It would make my world break down pretty much if he decided to fully walk away again

.
IMHO this is the crux of what YOU need to work on. Your world not breaking down if he walks away, your not having attachment/expectation on that. Again I'm sort of paraphrasing the Prophet Shamwlam  here but as long as you are so attached to him now walking away it will color all of your interactions with him.

I think that the situation is not toxic for him, but still really toxic for me, as I am waiting around while he keeps living his life.

Never do that. That is why I was saying to get some input off the board you cold come on this board and spend years going round and roun the mulberry bush. I think there is some value to this board but not so much in people stepping back out of the analysis and BPD and triggers and lingo and just saying 's/hes just not that into you'. AGAIN not saying that is your story but it helps to get some layman opinions from real people. NO ONE I know thought I should write a letter, text, reach out, give her the slightest benefit of the doubt. Because what do you have without all the analysis; girl pushed super hard for commitment, broke it off the next day w/o even taking ownership of that, diseappared completely w/o a word, replied to 2 amazing letters from the guy she acted like was her It as if it was a hallmark card some shlub from work sent professing his unrequited never dying love and multiple times asked me to meet and blew me off when I said yes. I havent seen her for 2 1/2 months and she could have had me at any moment with a text, call, email. What does that sound like when you read it off this board?

I am just thinking and hoping a lot - for almost a year now.
I am 24 years old, I should go out, meet new people. Instead, this situation brought me in therapy myself. I am trying to fight myself out of depression and through my anxieteies. I'm isolating myself pretty much, fighting more for him to come back than enjoying my own life.

Way to young to waste those years on this. I'm "wasting" mine here because I'm twice as old, have been w/o someone since you were, er, 14 :| and opened myself up to a relationship for the first time in years. You are I am sure quite pretty and sweet and a pretty and sweet 24 year old girl can get dates, even great ones, anywhere in the world. Don't waste the opportunity on this man. If he is going to come around he will, and my bet is by the time he does if he does YOU will have moved on. Open your heart to it since, among other reasons, it could open his to you.

[FaithfulInLove]

I don't wanna tell the whole story in detail - but he did have a good reason to feel put second in my life.
The sad thing is that now he can't trust I'm ready to change and actually put him first.

The turtle-story is so true... .wish he would see the good things I was willing to do, not just that one issue between us.

We might feel quite similar in this. Before him I never had a real relationship. A few really short nice tries, but nothing I'd call serious.
He pushed me to make this serious really fast. I only knew him for a few weeks (of chatting and skyping) and then he wanted us to be exclusive. I only "gave in" so fast because he said he'll never talk to me again if I didn't commit... .I'd rather have waited until we've met for the first time or so, but didn't wanna lose him - so that's how it all started.

I really wanna meet him in person. As friends and as a chance for him to get his feelings clear - but oh my god - am I scared to ask him and possibly get a clear no!
As I said, it is really difficult with him and his money issues + that girl that still might be around + him suppossedly not being sure where exactly I fit into his life... .I think asking him now might be too early, but I'm also scared of asking him when it's too late. Maybe he will start pulling away again more, you never know... !

I'd be happy if someone here could give me advice on how to ask him if we can meet soon - as friends - without coming on too strong and scaring him away, making him think that I'll just stare at him and beg him to get back together when we meet, kind of like it was when we met in January... .  I want him to at least really give it a think and I don't want him to pull his walls back up immediately or lose him as a friend.
I am scared that this question if we can see each other will make him think he has me safe, that I'm still hung up on him and only him (which you know he'd even be right with!) so can keep going, look for someone else, let me stay his back up plan... .

I know I can get dates, if I wanted to. I have tried it with that one man for a while who had a lot to offer but just didn't fit to my personality. It has stopped me from meeting others who might fit to me better.
I don't know, I've never really been out dating, it scares me and I do not believe that there could be anyone I could feel THAT connected to. It was so special with him.
Everyone has been wondering why I chose him, although he lives so far away, has an awful job, has crazy expectations and I am "so out of his league". I have those deep deep feelings for him, no matter whom else I could have, if that makes any sense? I don't feel like meeting someone new when he is so perfect to me and when I know he will probably never find somebody who would take him and his mental health this seriously. That is my problem.
I could try to move on, I don't want to because what he gave me was everything I could wish for in a relationship and nobody can compete.

[1stTimer]

We might feel quite similar in this. Before him I never had a real relationship. A few really short nice tries, but nothing I'd call serious.

That might be one big difference in our situations and makes me understand why you'd be so fixated on this. In my case I've had a few long term serious relationships (committed, monogamous) and one huge Love of my Life type (as in 'Holy Crap it DOES exist!" which ended horribly (years ago) but I do know how to love and be loved. I did not ever love this woman in fact was it was quite clear she was not 'the one' and I knew even when we 'committed' it was not going to last. Yet for me there was the whole issue of it being the firest relationship I'd had for over  a decade and was very hard to have it ripped from my life.

In your case if you've never experienced that before than yes that can be hard to let go of. More n this below:

He pushed me to make this serious really fast. I only knew him for a few weeks (of chatting and skyping) and then he wanted us to be exclusive. I only "gave in" so fast because he said he'll never talk to me again if I didn't commit... .I'd rather have waited until we've met for the first time or so, but didn't wanna lose him - so that's how it all started.

Wow ok now that should  have been a sign. Pushing for exclusivity after chatting and skyping is definitely not normal relationships behavior and threatening a complete discard if someone does not commit whether in a physicial relationship or not is emotional blackmail.

and I do not believe that there could be anyone I could feel THAT connected to. It was so special with him.

But you could be. You are 24. You discovered what it feels like to love and be loved. Take that from this. You (and I) really need to take what is good from what happened and jettison the rest. For you it is that you know how you want to feel, that you can love and you can be loved. Take that and don't waste literally the best years of your dating life.

I could try to move on, I don't want to because what he gave me was everything I could wish for in a relationship and nobody can compete.

Ok but let's look at what he gave you; an ultimatum before you ever met him for a committed exclusive relationship and than emotional punishment when you didn't prioritize him over everything else in your life. Those aren't good signs for a stable relationship.

Maybe, just maybe, what you loved so much about the relationship was YOURSELF and what you GAVE not HIM and what he "gave". Take that, be open, and give those and find someone who really deserves it. He does not. She does not.

[spacecadet]

Hi Faithfulinlove, I haven't read your full thread, skimmed a lot so may have missed something key. Your feelings are most understandable. You were deeply involved and imagining your future with him. I'd like you to also imagine the future and having children, and probably juggling a career, with a man who has such a hard time with rejection or slight. I understand your regret about the anniversary quarrel and you wish you had a "do over", but we ALL flub up at times in a LTR. For someone to be hurt by what you did is understandable, but the leaving you over it portends more break-ups and that vicious push-pull cycle in the future. The only caveat being, does he understand he has issues and is he on a path toward healing - wholeness? If so and he's working on himself, that's another scenario. I'm not hearing that.

Sometimes the love that catches fire very quickly burns itself out, while the love that grows slowly, one step at a time, will deepen and at some point ignite into passion.

And trust me, very strong passion can burn out, a little at a time or very slowly, with successive betrayals and disappointments. This is a line from Joni Mitchell's song "Help me" (I think I'm falling in love again)

"It's got me hoping for the future and worrying about the past
Cause I've seen some hard, hard places come down in smoke and ash."

Your being as invested as you are in this text communication -- while he's with another woman -- bodes poorly for a future with him. I complete get the level of passion. But very strong passion and stability don't always play nicely with one another.

I read your report about your job, congratulations! The best shot you have with him, or with anyone, is to strengthen yourself and pour yourself into other good times with other people and at work. The passion you found with him, trust me, you have that inside you and can create it, ride it, with your career and with new friends. At age 24, you can really have your pick of men. Yes, communicate with him and keep the door open, but please do not invest more of yourself, your hopes and dreams in a man where there are this many obstacles. Look for someone who deserves your devotion. I bet there's someone else who can sweep you off your feet, maybe not this year but soon!

I hope this makes sense and is not too uncomfortable. Keep those pretty feet on the ground and grow your love for life where you are right now. You'll be ready if he wants to try again, yet if he keeps going from one woman to another you'll be just fine, and will find a great new love.

[FaithfulInLove]

Wow, let me say I keep being surprised to see that you guys really read my long long posts in bad English!
I always try my best to keep them short but it never really works out!
Big thank you to this amazing community for caring and being there, showing support!  


@1stTimer: Oh yes, it is hard to / I never really tried to let go of this one special love!
I think I always had a healthy attitude regarding relationship / never rushed into anything and said if things don't work out, it's okay, I don't need anyone by my side, I'm happy on my own.
Then he came and told me about how he believed in that one big amazing love  and that I have been that for him, and he never had another real girlfriend before me as well, I was the first one he spend a night with, said I'll forever be his only one - can you imagine how heart-broken I was when I heard about the one after me... .?  
Wish I could find a way to get back to my old attitude, but I kind of got sucked into his'... .
Don't believe I can fall in love like this again and I'm afraid I will have to settle for less if I don't become comfortable again with being alone the way I was before. And I can't stop thinking that this has been really special for him too after all!

He carried it even further with the pushing for a relationship. I agree it was blackmail, he said stuff like "Ahh I see, I actually mean nothing to you, you'll never hear from me again, I'll go and do away with myself as no one will miss anyway... " The whole BPD craziness right from the beginning. Damn, that scared me!
At the start I sometimes even thought I can*'t do this, I'll try get him to therapy and run! Now he's gone and I'm still chasing him - ironic, isn't it?

What scares me about dating is that I do have my own issues. I wouldn't call myself a healthy person - especially now after I've been through this messy break up. Who'd wanna put up with this?
Yes, I have found someone who would, but he didn't give me half as much as my ex did, I failed falling in love.
I wonder who could ever give me that much? I don't think anyone could be enough for me, because my ex gave me everything from day one - no healthy person would do this.
I wonder if I can fall in love with a healthy person. I have anxieties and I don't think someone who doesn't could make me feel understood. I felt connected to him because he knew what it's like to feel this way.


And this is the problem @spacecadet, I don't think slow love is something that could work for me. I tried it for so long with that one man I've been seeing after my ex. No feelings of passion, only getting used to each other, appreciating one another - and of course being sad now because we had to end this, because this will never be enough for me.
Maybe I'll see things differently when I'm in my thirties and maybe start desperately wanting to get a child before my time is over like so many women do ... .
I think I'd even need someone who pulls me into all this like he did. Someone who wants so much that I start wanting too. I really am someone who values her alone-time, until someone comes along who makes spending time together feel even better and he was the only one who could.

He does know that he has issues but wasn't brave enough for therapy yet. In February I heard him thinking about getting help for the first time. He is so young, I can imagine that one day he'll really wake up and drag himself to do something about how he feels!
I think he could use someone by his side who takes his issues seriously and supports him in this. I don't think his family does - they are all quite tough, telling him to man up/ his brother is having issues himself and is not doing anything about it / the girl who I don't know is his friend or girlfriend once left him after a week of dating for being "too sensitive".
He is really misunderstood in the circles he lives in - that doesn't help him getting help.

Although I am not able to believe there could be someone else for me that could make me feel this way, thank you for your words of encouragement. I hope so much that something great like this will happen to me Or that he'll just finally turn around and come my way again! I think I'd do better, if I just had the chance.


Any advice on how to keep myself calm while I'm waiting for him to answer my messages? I sometimes lose my head and really start panicking because I am so scared of what happens next.

[1stTimer]

he never had another real girlfriend before me as well, I was the first one he spend a night with, said I'll forever be his only one - can you imagine how heart-broken I was when I heard about the one after me... .?

Quite so. All I heard from my girl was she was a one-man woman and meanwhile clearly she was with someone the moment we ended and never looked back (as far as I can tell, like you I have very little to go on but my own fears)

And I can't stop thinking that this has been really special for him too after all!

I think this is where we get in trouble. I didn't even find mine 'special' but couldn't stop thinking that after all she said and the immense pressure she put on me for months to be in a committed relationship and all the things she said the DAY before she broke it off (getting a new kind bed for us so I could stay each night, where we'd move when we got out own place, Saturday night would be 'our' night, showing me entire family album, picking out pet names, discussing our roles in our... ."relationship" ie. me as provider and protector but she wanted to keep her job, how everyone in her entire family and all her friends would want to meet the man she is having her first committed relationship in ten years bla bla bal) that if I*I were so crushed and missing her then she had to be an utter mess. Yet she can have me any time she wants (as can he I bet sense that with you) and she has not reached out.

At the start I sometimes even thought I can*'t do this, I'll try get him to therapy and run! Now he's gone and I'm still chasing him - ironic, isn't it?

No one on this board can appreciate that irony better than I

And this is the problem @spacecadet, I don't think slow love is something that could work for me. I tried it for so long with that one man I've been seeing after my ex. No feelings of passion, only getting used to each other, appreciating one another - and of course being sad now because we had to end this, because this will never be enough for me

.
Faithful, the exact same thing happened to me except in my mid-30s. After a # of committed relationships with 'best friends' or girls who liked me I got used to etc and I just figured the other Hollywood thing was a lie. Met a girl and it was almost instant. I remember in fact at the party we met, I knelt to give her a glass of water (we'd already been clearly smitten) and when our hands touched it was like a movie scene. Time stopped, everyone else seemed fuzzy and in slow motion, I literally heard a chime and woman's voice said in my head "It's her". I kid you not. I asked the girl who had invited me to the party who was her roomate the next day if it was ok if I asked this other girl out. I thought it was polite since they were roomies and I assumed the first girl had been interested in me when she invited me. She said "Can you? You BETTER? I've never seen anything like that happen to two people outside of a Hollywood Movie". The rest (until the end) was insanely magical.

And yes, I get one day that magic would wear off and people always tell you that AND I'm sure it is true. Except. Except. It is ALWAYS there. It is always part of what you had and were and your connection. Growing in love is great and trust and passion you gain from someone being there is great. But t will never be that and never be part of what you had, it won't be the foundation or the flavor. Someone who had not had that tried to explain it for me to me: "So it is like your love before was a hamburger and this one is Filet Mignon". I said "No. It is like my love before was a hamburger and this one is a sunset". His mouth dropped open as I think he GOT IT.

So I am right there with you. Except. Except. I started to realize with this girl whom I had none of that magic or attraction or affection that not every love WILL be like that and if I wait for that again I might miss out on other equally important ones.
[/quote]

[spacecadet]

What scares me about dating is that I do have my own issues. I wouldn't call myself a healthy person - especially now after I've been through this messy break up. Who'd wanna put up with this? ... .  I have anxieties and I don't think someone who doesn't could make me feel understood.

This self-reflection is really important... .kudos to you for looking inside.   

And this is the problem @spacecadet, I don't think slow love is something that could work for me. I tried it for so long with that one man I've been seeing after my ex. No feelings of passion, only getting used to each other, appreciating one another - and of course being sad now because we had to end this, because this will never be enough for me.

I do understand this feeling of wanting it all, wanting a very strong passion.

The thing is, I wouldn't say passion dies out altogether in LTR (it certain can and does many times). It's good to keep in mind that passion always quiets to a large degree. If you've got a good partner who loves you and demonstrates his love to you -- and you have what you need for the day-to-day longevity -- it will flare again at times. But there's never a replication of those first couple of years of honeymoon madness when every discovery is a thrill. The other person's body loses its mystery, it becomes as familiar as your own. The mind's always a mystery of course, the soul has no limit to its depths especially when both of you are deepening. But the surprises become less over time. Yet... .something more wonderful happens. A warmth grows, and compassion deepens. IF you're both reasonably healthy. This can be problematic with a pw/PD, whatever type of PD, whose compassion is limited.

If you're fortunate, and you're two people in for the long haul, it evolves more than anything into friendship. Friendship means when tough patches come, each of you remembers that you are a TEAM. You're best friends and there's a steadfastness that keeps things alive during periods when you might not like one another or even feel moments of disgust. There's an abiding respect, and this MUST be a two-way street.

Friendship and trust are the two most important things in a r/s. So as I said leave the door open, and nurture that ability to talk about difficult things in yourself, while supporting him as best you're able.

I hope you'll forgive me for talking to you this way! I don't mean to patronize but am old enough to be your mama and I feel protective of you. Yet you certainly need to take risks and jump off those boulders and cliffs and test your wings. Sometimes you'll crash and burn and think the world has ended, yet you'll rise again, new wings grow and you'll even soar again.

I think I'd even need someone who pulls me into all this like he did. Someone who wants so much that I start wanting too. I really am someone who values her alone-time, until someone comes along who makes spending time together feel even better and he was the only one who could.

I can relate to this. I'm so comfortable on my own that this is how my ex drew me in. It was a masterful seduction. He was really good at it. That's the good news. The bad news is, he was really good at it because he'd done it many times.  Before and after me.

He does know that he has issues but wasn't brave enough for therapy yet. In February I heard him thinking about getting help for the first time. He is so young, I can imagine that one day he'll really wake up and drag himself to do something about how he feels!

Yes his realizing he has issues is a good sign, and hopefully he's sought therapy and found someone who can really help him dig deep into why he's this way. There are injuries at the foundation of his issues, and it takes courage -- and yes support from those close to him -- to go through the "excavation" and healing process. He sounds high functioning (I think?) which also bodes well for healing, as does his youth.

Any advice on how to keep myself calm while I'm waiting for him to answer my messages? I sometimes lose my head and really start panicking because I am so scared of what happens next.

This is a good question and a deep one. It's about self-mastery, which is a lifelong process but paradoxically a good one to start right now!  I write some about this in other posts. Draw people close to you who know how amazing you are and tell you often! Put yourself with people who laugh and are joyful. One thing I did the past few years that changed me was spend time around older women (70-90) who were very strong and wise, and they inspired me to do things I'd never managed to do before, like meditate daily and take more risks. They broadened my perspective about life because they'd been through every imaginable heartbreak, including one whose husband of 60+ years was slipping away. (just pondering that makes my problems seem very different, very conquerable)

The more you cultivate passion and love and joy in your life separate from him, not only will you be better off in case things don't pan out between you... .you'll also be in a much better place to shoulder his issues if you reunite. So it's a win-win.

A quick story about self-mastery. I had a very passionate affair when I was 40 with an attorney, a litigator who couldn't turn it off in his personal life. He was quite jealous and he liked to quarrel and would actually get in my face and yell at me. I would get into it with him at first, then I stepped back and said, "Wait a minute, I'm 40 and too old to act like I did when I was 25."  And I'd also had one or two tough yelly type bosses where yelling back is not an option. So I decided to practice what I'd learned professionally, how to stand my ground yet be respectful. When my man yelled I'd calmly let him finish, look him in the eye and respond appropriately in an even voice. "I know you're upset that I smiled at the waiter, but I wasn't flirting, I was being polite. I don't even remember his face now." etc.

Wishing you all good things. XO

[1stTimer]

I'll definitely go and reread your threads, 1stTimer!... .

Hi Faithful, I posted a sort of 'Redux' of my sitch only because I found a text thread from a critical part of my story that supports my 'thesis' on the force and intent with which she pushed the very commitment she then tore apart the next day. No pressure but if you want to read it is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327188.new#new

Hope you've found a little peace and/or resolution over the weekend with your guy...