Looking for some help

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi there,
My brother is married to a Brazilian woman for the past 5 years. They have been together on and off for 10 years. They have a 5 year old like girl. Im at a loss with how to help my brother. He lives in a different country and I am lucky to have the opportunity to visit them every two years. But it also gives me the opportunity to see how their relationship is completely unhealthy. There relationship has been a tumultuous one, but with a beautiful little daughter at risk, he is not going to leave.A few years ago his wife had a psychotic episode and months of irrational behaviour. My parents flew over to help my brother, he had been putting up with abusive irrational behaviour for months before he admitted it and asked for help. His wife denied that there was anything wrong, it was everyone else that had a mental problem. Eventually was coerced into seeing someone, diagnosed with bipolar, took medication for a while, supposedly got better and stopped taking medication. Since then life has been a rollercoaster but he puts up with it and it makes me so sad. He doesn’t know how to deal with it and I am at a loss at how to help him. Some of her behaviours- she can flip out at the most random small thing for no logical reason, you never know what’s going to set her off. I’ve seen her roar at my brother for not coming back from a hardware store within the given time, threatened to leave and go back to Brazil with her daughter, he was disrespecting her because he was 10 minutes late. Does this a lot supposedly. Is fine if everything is going her way but becomes abusive if it’s not. Lack of empathy- can’t connect meaningfully to others at all. Feel like she is empty inside but just pretends to have feelings. Her daughter got perfumed oil in her eyes and she just ineffectually rubbed it with a towel without any care for her wellbeing. I heard my niece screaming in pain and ran to see what was wrongI intervened and washed out her eyes and comforted her. I was so angry and gave out to my sis in law in disbelief but she was so disconnected from it all, it was so hard to rationalise her behaviour. Has a grandiose belief that she is amazing, she really isn’t! Never apologises for anything! Constantly seems to forget things. Is very selfish, even puts her own needs before her daughter, which worries me. There are so many more behaviours I could list-but i’ll Just leave it here for now. I have been reasearching and I feel she has a borderline personality disorder, I’m not sure. Just looks for some help or any advice at all,
Thanks

[Marsie78]

Hi there,
My brother is married to a Brazilian woman for the past 5 years. They have been together on and off for 10 years. They have a 5 year old like girl. Im at a loss with how to help my brother. He lives in a different country and I am lucky to have the opportunity to visit them every two years. But it also gives me the opportunity to see how their relationship is completely unhealthy. There relationship has been a tumultuous one, but with a beautiful little daughter at risk, he is not going to leave.A few years ago his wife had a psychotic episode and months of irrational behaviour. My parents flew over to help my brother, he had been putting up with abusive irrational behaviour for months before he admitted it and asked for help. His wife denied that there was anything wrong, it was everyone else that had a mental problem. Eventually was coerced into seeing someone, diagnosed with bipolar, took medication for a while, supposedly got better and stopped taking medication. Since then life has been a rollercoaster but he puts up with it and it makes me so sad. He doesn’t know how to deal with it and I am at a loss at how to help him. Some of her behaviours- she can flip out at the most random small thing for no logical reason, you never know what’s going to set her off. I’ve seen her roar at my brother for not coming back from a hardware store within the given time, threatened to leave and go back to Brazil with her daughter, he was disrespecting her because he was 10 minutes late. Does this a lot supposedly. Is fine if everything is going her way but becomes abusive if it’s not. Lack of empathy- can’t connect meaningfully to others at all. Feel like she is empty inside but just pretends to have feelings. Her daughter got perfumed oil in her eyes and she just ineffectually rubbed it with a towel without any care for her wellbeing. I heard my niece screaming in pain and ran to see what was wrongI intervened and washed out her eyes and comforted her. I was so angry and gave out to my sis in law in disbelief but she was so disconnected from it all, it was so hard to rationalise her behaviour. Has a grandiose belief that she is amazing, she really isn’t! Never apologises for anything! Constantly seems to forget things. Is very selfish, even puts her own needs before her daughter, which worries me. There are so many more behaviours I could list-but i’ll Just leave it here for now. I have been reasearching and I feel she has a borderline personality disorder, I’m not sure. Just looks for some help or any advice at all,
Thanks

[Learning2Thrive]

  Marsie78,

I’m glad you’ve found us but very sorry for the circumstances that brought you here.

If I understand correctly, your brother has married an undiagnosed person with BPD and they have a 5 y/o child. They also live in a different country from you.

Based on what you’ve shared, I understand why you feel concerned.

Unfortunately, we can’t force anyone else to change their behavior or see their dysfunction. What does your brother have to say about his wife’s behaviors?

I look forward to learning more about you and how we may help you improve your relationship with your brother and his family.

  L2T

[Marsie78]

Hi L2T,
Thank you for the reply, I feel very helpless in the situation so it is good to be able to talk to someone about it. Apologies for the long unorganised post, I stumbled upon the forum by chance and just kind of blurted things out without organising my thoughts.
I just had a confrontation with her. My brother is at work. My little niece was outside and she screamed at the top of her lungs at her to stop whatever she was doing, it was really aggressive. I got so angry. I went out and confronted her and said that was not the way to reprimand her daughter and I said that was not normal behaviour. Wrong choice of words I know! She started shouting in my face and to be honest I didn’t shout back but my anger got the better of me and I got even closer to her face, in my head I was not backing down, and said she couldn’t speak to me like that and it was abnormal behaviour. Again... wrong choice of words.
I am not a confrontational person. I know it is not my place to question a mother’s parenting techniques but her voice was just so aggressive, my niece is only 5. She got on the phone to my brother, ranting and shouting about me. My niece was crying and ran to her room. I felt so terrible about the situation but so angry at the same time. I’m just afraid that maybe she is like this to my niece when no one is around and it just fills me with sadness and fear.
I also felt bad that I was making things difficult for my brother. It’s not what I wanted. She eventually got off the phone. I decided the best thing to do was to apologise for getting angry, that was not what I should have done. She ranted some more about me offending her in her house, I was not a mother so I didn’t know what I was talking about, she is a good mother, you do not judge people, she does what she needs to do to make her daughter listen etc. I just let her rant, then said that I was coming from the heart and I genuinely did not intend to offend her and I was sorry for getting angry.I don’t want to end my visit like this( I’m leaving tomorrow) I then gave her a big hug and said let’s put this behind us. I genuinely did mean it.It seemed to appease her... I think. We then just carried on like it didn’t happen... kind of.
My poor brother came home from work to see if everything is ok, I feel so guilty that I’m causing this distress for him. I have told him briefly when we were alone that I think she has BPD, I feel guilty about that too. He asked what Can be done about it, I said I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe she doesn’t... .I just want to find tools and techniques for him and my niece to cope with it. She had been diagnosed with bipolar a couple of years ago but both myself and my brother don’t think that she does have it. She doesn’t have depressive episodes.I don’t get to speak to my brother alone, my sis in law gets paranoid if we go anywhere without her, think she knows that we would be taking about her. I feel particularly bad that I have dropped the BPD bombshell without discussing it with him properly. I feel so much guilt and anxiety at the moment, all I want to do is bawl crying but I’m trying to hold it together. I would be so grateful if I could get any advice on the situation...
Marsie

[zachira]

Of course you are upset when you see your niece being mistreated by her mother, and would like to see your niece get the love every child deserves. My parents were emotionally unavailable to their children, and I can tell you that I am the kind of person I am today because of caring aunts and uncles who gave me the love I could not get from my parents. I also fondly remember caring adults giving me some positive attention for just a few minutes, and it meant a lot to me. Spend as much quality time as you can with your niece. Are you allowed to take your niece places on your own or have her stay with you? Take care and keep us posted on how you are doing.

[Learning2Thrive]

... .  I feel so much guilt and anxiety at the moment, all I want to do is bawl crying but I’m trying to hold it together. I would be so grateful if I could get any advice on the situation.

Hi Marsie78, it’s been a few days. How are you doing? We have several tools that can help.

First, it helps to get ourselves centered and to a place of mindfulness. This article helped me a lot:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

Then, knowing how to end conflict really helps! We didn’t cause their issues, we cannot control their behaviors, and we cant cure the illness. But we can stop making things worse. Here’s a great tool for how to end conflict:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

There’s a lot more tools, like listening with empathy, don’t be invalidating, and establishing healthy boundaries (for our protection, not as punishment for the pwBPD), but I don’t want to overload you.

I hope you are doing well and taking good care of yourself today.

  L2T


Then,

[Marsie78]

Hi zachira and L2T,
Thanks so much for your replies, it gave me a lot of comfort. I have left them and am currently on vacation for a week before I head home. And it all just hit me. I’ve been upset a lot. I tried to keep a brave face when I was with them and I think that I balled up my emotions and it’s all just been released now. So I’ve done a lot of crying over the past few days. I just feel for my brother and my niece. I worried that the emotional upheaval will have an effect on my niece and I wish I was there to protect her but I can’t be... and I find that so hard to come to terms with. She was hiding in a cupboard when my sis in law had one of her meltdowns. I didn’t cry at the time, although I was horrified and taken aback by it, but my main aim at the time was to make her feel safe so we just played and pretended it wasn’t going on. Just thinking about it now I don’t know if I reacted the right way and it makes me so upset, I have cried countless times since I arrived here, just had to let it all out. I suppose I feel so helpless in the situation. It is one of the hardest things to see people you love so dearly being at the end of someone’s unpredictable moods. I feel terrible but I have to be honest and say that I feel such anger towards my sis in law because of this. I managed not to show this when I was there because I knew it wouldn’t help anything but since I’ve left I’ve cried many angry tears about the situation. But I know it’s not my life and I can only support my brother and my niece as much as I can. I just don’t know how I can do this without becoming very distressed about the whole situation. Because it has really affected me. Just worrying if my niece will have any psychological problems for growing up in this environment and to be honest I already know the answer and it makes me so sad.
Thank you so much L2T for checking up on me, I appreciate it xx

[Marsie78]

Is there anyone on here that grew up with a BPD parent. My brother is really good with my sis in law, very loving and has so much patience with her. He has decided to be in the relationship, he’s an adult so it is totally his choice and I know that he loves his daughter very dearly and would never want to leave her so I think that is a huge factor in why he is staying in the relationship. I just want to know my niece will be ok, or what I can advise my brother to help her be ok.

[Marsie78]

Hi, could someone please respond to me. I just need some support, please. I can’t talk to my family about it, they are worried enough as it is. I know the helpless feeling of not being able to do anything so I can’t put them through that. My mum and dad went over to help a few years ago and they were so upset after it so I really can’t put them through that again.i just need some support and help, please xx

[Harri]

Hi Marsie78.  Most of us who post on this board have a parent with BPD.  Have you read some of the threads?  They can give you a pretty good idea of what children with a BPD parent may face.  The thing is, most of us also had a non disordered parent who knew little if anything about the disorder and did not have good boundaries of their own. 

Here are a couple of links to articles that you may want to read through.  You can extrapolate the information to fit your brothers situation.  What is important, vital even, is that the child has at least one source of validating and unconditional love.  Someone who, unlike the BPD parent, can see the child as an individual with a right to their own thoughts and feelings and who can love that child regardless of any mis-behavior (aka any typical childhood mischief they may get into).

Understanding the BPD Parent

Raising a Resilient Child When a Parent Has BPD

Is your brother aware of BPD and that there can be challenges associated with the marriage and child rearing?  You may want to recommend he join this site.  He would receive the best support on our Bettering a Relationship Board where there are liked minded people who are working on maintaining a good and loving relationship whale using communication tools and boundaries that help stabilize the relationship.

Hope that helps.

[Learning2Thrive]

Hi, could someone please respond to me. I just need some support, please. I can’t talk to my family about it, they are worried enough as it is. I know the helpless feeling of not being able to do anything so I can’t put them through that. My mum and dad went over to help a few years ago and they were so upset after it so I really can’t put them through that again.i just need some support and help, please xx

Hi Marsie78.

Of course you feel worry and anxiety over this situation. Any normal, mentally healthy person would feel the same way.  It is shocking and quite traumatic to witness these behaviors.

How do you feel we may best support you?

Unfortunately, we have no magic wand to relieve your justifiable rumination anxiety.  Your brother is responsible for his child’s safety and well-being. Until he is willing or able to change the situation, your neice will be affected by her mother’s behavior.

I was raised by a uNPD mother and it is something I am still working through to recover and heal. I will say that by outward appearances, no one would guess that I grew up in such an abusive, violent environment. The few healthy adults (grandparents, teachers, neighbors) who modeled healthy behaviors and showed me love made the difference in my life.

There are things you can do for your neice. Keeping contact with her, encouraging her, help building up herself esteem, etc. can make a real difference.

Taking a breath to calm and center yourself will help you reduce your anxiety and reach your wisemind:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

We also have communication tools that can help you deal with her mother more effectively and minimize conflict.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict
https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Please take time to take care of you today. Your neice needs you to remain healthy so you can be in her life as she grows.

Sending you gentle hugs and understanding smiles filled with compassion,

  L2T

[Panda39]

Hi Marsie78,

I did not grow up with a BPD Parent, I'm on these boards because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they share 2 daughters.

I like you have been an outside observer.  When I met my SO he was separated and in the process of divorcing.  His daughters were 9 & 14.

I can't tell you how all of this will effect your niece other than it will, we are all influenced by our parents as we grow up. Depending on her mother's behaviors and her own personality she will be affected in various ways.

But that said our parents are not the only people in our lives, we have other family members, friends and their parents, and teachers and others in our lives that help shape us too. (and don't count your brother and his influence out)

My SO's daughters had to work their way and still are working their way through their feelings for their mother and both have been effected in different ways by their mother. 

D21 was her mother's "Golden Child" the child who was her confidant (told inappropriate adult things by her mother), and she was also parentified (she became her mother & younger sister's care taker)

D17 was her mother's "Scapegoat" the child who was blamed for her mother's shortcomings, she was also excluded by her sister and mother.

It's been a long 8 years and lots of things have changed D21 is no contact with her mother (this presents it's own set of challenges) and D17 is low contact with her mother mostly via text/phone calls.

They have had to go through a lot of things that no child should because of their mother's behaviors, but because of the other people in their lives they have grown, matured, and are functioning young adults.  Yes there are issues, D21 is still acting like her sister's mother, D17 has trouble standing up for herself etc.  This is the dynamic they have learned around each other but in spite of the dysfunction they do love each other.  But within the family at least for now they seem stuck in these roles. 

Considering the things their mom has put them through they are doing remarkably well.  D21 is about to graduate from college and is going to be a teacher and D17 is in her last year of high school getting ready to go to college too. 

Your niece will likely have some struggles that other children don't have to go through because of her mother's mental illness, but this doesn't mean she will crumble under it. 

There are many resilient children of BPD parents on this board who are some of the wisest members on this site, who have more in sight into themselves and others than most people.  They are who they are both because of and in spite of who their parents are.

I want to share some information with you from the "co-parenting" Board that might help you understand what co-parenting with someone with BPD can look like and give you some information to build resilience in your niece... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331288#msg1331288

Do you think your brother would be interested in joining us?  There is a lot of information here both in terms of parenting but also that could support him in his relationship and tools to improve things. 

Finally, I want to acknowledge how hard this is to watch, to not have the power to directly correct it, to see the pain everyone is in and to care for them all. I totally understand your anger (I arrived here one angry Panda too) and your sadness too.  The tough lesson is learning that we can't change or control anyone but ourselves.

Take Care,
Panda39

[Marsie78]

Hi Harri, L2T and Panda39,
Thank you so much for your replies, they really helped me. I did have a look at other threads on here but I suppose my feelings were quite raw after leaving my brother and family so to be honest it didn’t help my anxiety, just made it a bit worse.
Thank you for the threads you have guided me towards will read them and take whatever helpful information I can from them.
Your replies to my posts were so helpful and insightful, they really did help me. I do think my brother would benefit from this forum, I hopefully will be able to have that discussion with him about it, but it really is quite a difficult thing to say. He is extremely good with his wife, very patient, never loses his temper and is very loving towards her. I was sometimes in disbelief at how calm and unaffected he was by some of her irrational behaviour but he is used to it and probably knows how to deal with it best, I wasn’t used to it. I just want him to have his own healthy boundaries.
He said she was better when she was on medication so I don’t want to say anything to him because maybe I’m wrong. I might guide him towards this site because I do think he will benefit from hearing other stories and maybe sharing his own story as well. She definitely displays a lot of the behaviours so I do think it will help him.
Thank you for the caring and kind replies, I genuinely didn’t expect it and it did help me work through my feelings and anxiety. I do really appreciate it
Marsie xx

[Learning2Thrive]

  Marsie78,

I’m so sorry for all the anxiety you felt. I would have felt the same.

One thing you might want to keep in mind with your brother is that he may be buried in FOG. Fear Obligation Guilt.

This article explains FOG really well:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

Please keep reading and asking questions as you are able. BPD topics can be very overwhelming, so please take your timeand make sure yoou are practicing good self care. 

  L2T